Falcon tech chasing and missed tech punishing

Tech chasing:
Using an attack and observing which way the opponent will tech. You are then able to predict they're next tech and can punish. In Melee this was often done with D-throw and F-throw, leading to a RB or FK. Now in brawl, with the lack of hitstun, things are a lot harder. Firstly, neither d-throw or f-throw work for a set-up, and FK and RB aren't good punishments anymore. So I've decided to make a list of good set-ups for a techchase, and good techchases. Contribution is greatly appreciated, and you will be credited at the end.

AC U-air - this is the best I find. From about 40% - 65% this works well, and it hits them angled towards the ground, which is great. This works on everyone, and is easy to approach with.

AC B-air - This is good, but not as effective as U-air. It has more knock back though, so it is used in a different percent window. About 24% - 38%. You must do a running SH RAR for this to work more effectively.

Dash-A frontmost hitbox - You may have noticed that Dash-A has a hitbox on the tip of Falcon's elbow that will send an opponent slightly forward and put them into the tumbling animation. This is very good, since it has the biggest window of about from 30% to 150%, even if it is a poor predictable approach.

Running SH SS Knee - This only works on tall characters like Ganondorf and Bowser. This sends them in an almost perfectly straight horizontal line, the perfect set-up. only use it between 15% and 40%, because otherwise they will go too far to punish effectively.



So what do you techchase with?
Well, there are a number of things. Obviously, FK and RB are great options, but they don't do much damage. So I'll go through individually what I think are the best options.

Roll towards:
If they come very close to you, F-smash. Simple Jab jab regrab if you want to continue a chain.
If they are close, but not enough, I would go for Hyphen U-smash or, go for the dash-a set-up and continue punishments.

get up:
They're rarely going to be close, so I would go for hyphen U-smash, or FK/RB, or a grab.

Roll Away:
This is a difficult one. Your rarely going to be fast enough to get them, but if you are, just the get up options again.


Missed tech punishing
If an opponent misses a tech, its your opportunity to punish them for that. There are two cases when you should do this:
1) If your opponent consistently misses techs.
2) If you get them with the front most hitbox of Dash-A below 60%

These, I find are the three most effective punishes:
Hyphen U-smash - 21% fresh, quick and slides a lot. probably the best punishement.

D-air - Great for setting up for combos, and great for comboing. Simply, hit an opponent who hits the ground in the animation where they bounce. They will be hit up again and you can repeat.

Flub'd knee > F-tilt - The Nudge combo. After this the opponent is forced to get directly upwards, leading to a D-air > Knee kill, or further damage building combos.

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:

Also, when you see an opponent use their 'get back up' attack (the attack when you push 'A' while you are laying on the ground) you can easily punish them with a SH FF sweet knee. The ideal situation is if you are already in the air when they use their 'get back up' attack, so you can FF sweet knee punish easier.

A good way to mindgame an opponent into using this, is to jump towards them while they are laying on the ground. Sometimes they'll try to punish your appraoch with said 'get back up' attack, as it seems a safe attack to use. But when you jump towards them and you get them to use their 'get back up' attack, simply secondjump>FF sweet knee punish them.

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Thanks to ToKneeOrNotToKnee for the quote. you can also use this tactic, but with and AC N-air, for comboing to other stuff for damage building. Also you might want to save your knee for the kill.


The idea of looking into tech chasing further was suggested by TokneeOrNotToKnee.

great thread
we should look into this even more imo :D
this is a very good start.

Also, when you see an opponent use their 'get back up' attack (the attack when you push 'A' while you are laying on the ground) you can easily punish them with a SH FF sweet knee. The ideal situation is if you are already in the air when they use their 'get back up' attack, so you can FF sweet knee punish easier.

A good way to mindgame an opponent into using this, is to jump towards them while they are laying on the ground. Sometimes they'll try to punish your appraoch with said 'get back up' attack, as it seems a safe attack to use. But when you jump towards them and you get them to use their 'get back up' attack, simply secondjump>FF sweet knee punish them.

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:

great thread
we should look into this even more imo :D
this is a very good start.

Also, when you see an opponent use their 'get back up' attack (the attack when you push 'A' while you are laying on the ground) you can easily punish them with a SH FF sweet knee. The ideal situation is if you are already in the air when they use their 'get back up' attack, so you can FF sweet knee punish easier.

A good way to mindgame an opponent into using this, is to jump towards them while they are laying on the ground. Sometimes they'll try to punish your appraoch with said 'get back up' attack, as it seems a safe attack to use. But when you jump towards them and you get them to use their 'get back up' attack, simply secondjump>FF sweet knee punish them.

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Yes, that is useful. Maybe at low percents an AC N-air for comboing, and to save the knee for the kill? And agreed, we should look into this more. I'll add this to the OP.

you should put this into your guide

Noodlehead said:

you should put this into your guide

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agreed. face and I already agreed this will be in my guide
but we need more info first. We need to go as much indepth as possible, and then I'll add this to the guide.

It seems like alot of thought went into this :D

Falcon's finally getting some good setups and punishers!

The nudge combo really is amazing.

Just speaking hypothetically here, but against someone who likes to use the get-up attack, would stutter-stepped Fsmash be a good option? I think it would keep you safe, but allow for a good clean hit still.

I dunno, just a thought.

F5Hazardousdoc said:

It seems like alot of thought went into this :D

Falcon's finally getting some good setups and punishers!

The nudge combo really is amazing.

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Thankyou, and a lot of thought has gone into this, both from me and ToKnee.

Roager said:

Just speaking hypothetically here, but against someone who likes to use the get-up attack, would stutter-stepped Fsmash be a good option? I think it would keep you safe, but allow for a good clean hit still.

I dunno, just a thought.

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Yes, but I think it would require more precise timing than other options. Also, there is the risk that it could hit you when you do the stutter, so I'm not sure.

Darxmarth23 said:

Yes.

i needed this. It sort of bought back a melee feel for a sec...

good thread.

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thanks. This was based slightly on Melee Falcon.

K so I was high at my last tournament and had a gigantic realization..............


everything in brawl is a tech-chase


think about it.........because there's no hitstun we automatically think that Combo's don't exist.........but in reality it's not true. This is the "string theory" I thought up, if person A hit's person B, person A can chase them down with another attack (attempting to combo) person B has a choice that is usually to dodge.......I think in Brawl we have to broaden our choices. if we look at the same example in a broader perspective person A after his connected attack can chase person B and WAIT for their dodge if they are expecting it instead of attacking (which is what many of us don't do) we could also spot dodge instead if we are expecting a counter attack. Person B also has choices: counter attack, dodge, or jump/run. Essentially you can break these options down into three categories...........Offense: these options include attacking in air, standing, and lying on the ground, Defensive: these options include shieldinging or dodging, and Mobility: these options include movement in some fashion, from the MW to simply walking. If you think about your playstyle I think a lot of players will see that they are not excersizing all these options effectively. when you think about it.........it's like a giant game of rock-paper-sizzors, you have a 33 % chance of winning the game, however in brawl most of us only choose one option, Offensive (attempting to MELEE combo). It's like playing somebody in R-P-S and always picking rock...........sure you have a chance of tricking somebody into sizzors but its highly unlikely to happen. Iunno if i'm still baked fot this to make sense but this became a "realization" to me........and my game has stepped up MASSIVELY from how it was before.

i've been playing my brother recently cuz i'm home for christmas break, and he's not as good as the group of ppl i usually play with. but it lets me try out new things. lately i've been doing this: attack, run behind, attack, run behind, attack, run away, or variations on that. basically just one hit, then wait and see his reaction. it's almost like melee tech chasing, just it feels weird because it's so slow.

btw, don't worry ayaz. i understand your baked ***.

Ayaz18 said:

K so I was high at my last tournament and had a gigantic realization..............


everything in brawl is a tech-chase


think about it.........because there's no hitstun we automatically think that Combo's don't exist.........but in reality it's not true. This is the "string theory" I thought up, if person A hit's person B, person A can chase them down with another attack (attempting to combo) person B has a choice that is usually to dodge.......I think in Brawl we have to broaden our choices. if we look at the same example in a broader perspective person A after his connected attack can chase person B and WAIT for their dodge if they are expecting it instead of attacking (which is what many of us don't do) we could also spot dodge instead if we are expecting a counter attack. Person B also has choices: counter attack, dodge, or jump/run. Essentially you can break these options down into three categories...........Offense: these options include attacking in air, standing, and lying on the ground, Defensive: these options include shieldinging or dodging, and Mobility: these options include movement in some fashion, from the MW to simply walking. If you think about your playstyle I think a lot of players will see that they are not excersizing all these options effectively. when you think about it.........it's like a giant game of rock-paper-sizzors, you have a 33 % chance of winning the game, however in brawl most of us only choose one option, Offensive (attempting to MELEE combo). It's like playing somebody in R-P-S and always picking rock...........sure you have a chance of tricking somebody into sizzors but its highly unlikely to happen. Iunno if i'm still baked fot this to make sense but this became a "realization" to me........and my game has stepped up MASSIVELY from how it was before.

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This is pretty true but oversimplified and your chances of "winning" with various moves is heavily dependent on the opponent's character.

And it should be
"Everything in Brawl is a mind-game."

yep that's stoner talk for you

but things that should combo like CF's Fthrow CG are possible if you predict a spot dodge, actually I like to do Fthrow chained twice then when my opponent catches on do Fthrow Usmash slightly charged so it comes out on the ending frames of the opponents spot dodge, it's pretty sweet

I was playing a few ppl online yesterday, and this happen to me alot. We played on bf and we were underneath the left (right works too i guess, but not the uppermost one) platform. I did a d throw, they missed a tech on the platform above, and I put a SH knee on them. I can't remember what percentage my opponents were at (probably low-mid works). Lag might of messed up their reaction time, but again, i did this alot . O:

roll-chasing is really useful too

like Niko can roll-chase me well and I hate every time he does it to me >.<

I should just stop rolling in general

Ayaz18 said:

roll-chasing is really useful too

like Niko can roll-chase me well and I hate every time he does it to me >.<

I should just stop rolling in general

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DO IT

then taunt by rolling

i should upload videos of my melee playing...

its absolutely horrible but its fun,..
melee 'dorf ftw? :D

rolling isnt bad unless you become predictable.. i watched this one video and i guessed almost every time he would roll it was just horrible

instead of rolling do a running spot dodge =D