Taking Advantage of Frame Advantage
An idiot's guide to the meaning of a consistently negative number in Brawl
Introduction
Hi, if you don't like numbers or aren't interested in finding frame-specific characteristics of your attacks (you really should focus on your basic game before you begin to cover this ****, so don't think frame data's gonna step your game up a ton, because it won't), then this thread won't be of much help to you. However, for those of you who are interested, this is how you can determine what things are "safe on block" and the meaning of the term "frame advantage."
Breakdown
Here's the basic characteristics of any attack.
HIT: This is the frame an attack hits on. Assuming the moment you press the button is frame 0, counting from there will give you the hit frame.
HITLAG: This number counts how many frames your character is stuck in his "I hit you" frame of animation. Basically the attacker (and, if unshielded, the attackee) will literally be frozen in place for this many frames.
BLOCKHITLAG: This number counts how many frames the character who gets attacked is frozen in place, assuming he shielded the attack. During these frames, the player can input any of the 8 cardinal directions with the control stick to SDI, one "unique" (you can SDI left twice during the same hitlag, but you can't SDI left twice in a row) direction per frame. All other inputs do absolutely nothing.
BLOCKSTUN: Once blockhitlag is over, the character is stuck in blockstun. During these frames, the player can no longer SDI, yet cannot unshield, grab, jump, or otherwise do anything besides continue shielding. However, you can input buffered commands, like jump, grab, or roll, during this period.
DURATION: How long an attack takes before you can do something else. Basically, how many frames it takes for the attack to be over.
FRAME ADVANTAGE: The difference, in terms of frames, between when you can first do something and when the opponent can first do something. If it's positive (and in Brawl, it never is or you'd have guaranteed shieldbreak strings) then you can act before the opponent does. If it's negative, then the opposite is true.
How to find frame advantage
Frame advantage can be calculated using all the of the above values, using the following formula:
(BLOCKHITLAG + BLOCKSTUN) - HITLAG - (DURATION - HIT) = FRAME ADVANTAGE
How do we come to this? Well, blockhitlag and blockstun are the frames where the opponent can't do anything, so those are the frames that you start with. Then you subtract your own attack's duration (minus hit because we're starting from the frame that the attack hits), along with your own hitlag because it extends the attack's duration, and you end up with the value for frame advantage.
Example
We'll go with Marth's tipper fsmash first, as an example, because it has good numbers for everything.
HIT: 10
Marth hits Snake's shield on frame 10. This is when everything starts.
BLOCKHITLAG: 10
Snake is frozen in his shield for 10 frames. He can SDI if he wants.
BLOCKSTUN: 5
Snake is forced to hold his shield for 5 more frames. He can buffer actions if he wants.
HITLAG: 16
DURATION: 49
Marth has to go through all of his hitlag and the rest of his fsmash's follow-through before he can do anything.
FRAME ADVANTAGE: -40
What does this -40 mean? Well, it basically means that Snake has 40 frames (two-thirds of a second) to do something from his shield, whether it's unshield (7 frames), run over and grab (6 frames to grab), or jump (??? frames) and do some aerial, or whatever, before Marth can even think about shielding or attacking. Kinda sucks, huh? Don't fsmash shields with Marth.
Now let's use an example where things aren't as simple.
A cooler example
Now, since Inui kept telling me a couple weeks ago about how Zero Suit Samus has this crazy good dsmash that's safe on block, I decided to go and find the real numbers. Here's what we've got.
HIT: 20
Relatively high startup, but still possible to hit a shield with, right?
HITLAG: 0 <--- this is ridiculous
BLOCKHITLAG: 8
I was surprised by the 0 hitlag, too. This means that Zero Suit Samus' dsmash imparts no innate disadvantage even when it hits something. Meanwhile, the opponent's frozen in shield for 8 frames.
BLOCKSTUN: 2
DURATION: 34
Mario has 2 frames to buffer something. Zero Suit Samus' attack ends 14 frames after it hits.
FRAME ADVANTAGE: -4
Cool number, right? Mario is left with 4 frames to do something.
How to use frame advantage
So, using the cool example above, Zero Suit Samus has a -4 frame advantage. Conversely, you can say that Mario has a 4 frame advantage. To see how this works, take the startup of any attack and subtract the frame advantage. For example, Mario's uhh, shieldgrab, "hits" on frame 6. With 4 frame advantage, 6 - 4 = 2, so it's the equivalent of grabbing on frame 2.
Unshield: 7 frames
Uhh, no. You're basically giving 3 free frames right back to Zero Suit Samus with this. After that, you definitely have nothing you can do before ZSS can avoid your response.
Shieldgrab: 6 frames
6 - 4 = 2, right? Well, too bad Zero Suit Samus' jab hits on frame 1. This pretty much completely thwarts the usual plan of grabbing after shielding an attack.
Up+B: 3 frames + 1 frame of "jump startup" = 4 frames
Yeah, this is pretty much all you can do. And what about characters who don't have some insanely fast "Dragon Punch" maneuver like Mario? While Marth has his Dolphin Slash due to the startup invulnerability, Meta Knight does not - his Shuttle Loop hits AND ONLY BEGINS TO HAVE INVULNERABILITY on frame 5, which translates to all that stuff happening on frame 6 from shield and means that, once again, ZSS' jab will prevail 1 frame before Meta Knight could've made a difference.
Yeah, that's right.
Addendum - Perfect Shielding
Perfect shielding is hitting shield with good enough timing to "just block" an attack. The timing window is relatively large in Brawl compared to Melee, but anyway.
If you perfect shield an attack, damage to your shield (how much your shield shrinks) is reduced to 0,blockstun is reduced to 0, and if you let go of the shield button before the blockhitlag is over, you will be in "standing" position rather than "shielding," allowing you to completely circumvent the 7-frame lag of unshielding to perform an action and blockhitlag is reduced to 0. As you can likely tell, this will affect frame advantage; specifically, it'll make it worse off for the attacker.
Summary
Frame advantage is (almost) always negative in Brawl, but this doesn't mean that there's nothing you can do for legitimate shield pressure. Leaving just large enough of a timing window for you to do something to break out of what would ordinarily look like an unsafe situation (AKA frame-trapping) is all about knowing your negative frame advantage and how to make the most of it.
Hope this helps for whatever you might want to use frame advantage for, and I'll be taking any questions if I might've missed something.
An idiot's guide to the meaning of a consistently negative number in Brawl
Introduction
Hi, if you don't like numbers or aren't interested in finding frame-specific characteristics of your attacks (you really should focus on your basic game before you begin to cover this ****, so don't think frame data's gonna step your game up a ton, because it won't), then this thread won't be of much help to you. However, for those of you who are interested, this is how you can determine what things are "safe on block" and the meaning of the term "frame advantage."
Breakdown
Here's the basic characteristics of any attack.
HIT: This is the frame an attack hits on. Assuming the moment you press the button is frame 0, counting from there will give you the hit frame.
HITLAG: This number counts how many frames your character is stuck in his "I hit you" frame of animation. Basically the attacker (and, if unshielded, the attackee) will literally be frozen in place for this many frames.
BLOCKHITLAG: This number counts how many frames the character who gets attacked is frozen in place, assuming he shielded the attack. During these frames, the player can input any of the 8 cardinal directions with the control stick to SDI, one "unique" (you can SDI left twice during the same hitlag, but you can't SDI left twice in a row) direction per frame. All other inputs do absolutely nothing.
BLOCKSTUN: Once blockhitlag is over, the character is stuck in blockstun. During these frames, the player can no longer SDI, yet cannot unshield, grab, jump, or otherwise do anything besides continue shielding. However, you can input buffered commands, like jump, grab, or roll, during this period.
DURATION: How long an attack takes before you can do something else. Basically, how many frames it takes for the attack to be over.
FRAME ADVANTAGE: The difference, in terms of frames, between when you can first do something and when the opponent can first do something. If it's positive (and in Brawl, it never is or you'd have guaranteed shieldbreak strings) then you can act before the opponent does. If it's negative, then the opposite is true.
How to find frame advantage
Frame advantage can be calculated using all the of the above values, using the following formula:
(BLOCKHITLAG + BLOCKSTUN) - HITLAG - (DURATION - HIT) = FRAME ADVANTAGE
How do we come to this? Well, blockhitlag and blockstun are the frames where the opponent can't do anything, so those are the frames that you start with. Then you subtract your own attack's duration (minus hit because we're starting from the frame that the attack hits), along with your own hitlag because it extends the attack's duration, and you end up with the value for frame advantage.
Example
We'll go with Marth's tipper fsmash first, as an example, because it has good numbers for everything.
HIT: 10
Marth hits Snake's shield on frame 10. This is when everything starts.
BLOCKHITLAG: 10
Snake is frozen in his shield for 10 frames. He can SDI if he wants.
BLOCKSTUN: 5
Snake is forced to hold his shield for 5 more frames. He can buffer actions if he wants.
HITLAG: 16
DURATION: 49
Marth has to go through all of his hitlag and the rest of his fsmash's follow-through before he can do anything.
FRAME ADVANTAGE: -40
What does this -40 mean? Well, it basically means that Snake has 40 frames (two-thirds of a second) to do something from his shield, whether it's unshield (7 frames), run over and grab (6 frames to grab), or jump (??? frames) and do some aerial, or whatever, before Marth can even think about shielding or attacking. Kinda sucks, huh? Don't fsmash shields with Marth.
Now let's use an example where things aren't as simple.
A cooler example
Now, since Inui kept telling me a couple weeks ago about how Zero Suit Samus has this crazy good dsmash that's safe on block, I decided to go and find the real numbers. Here's what we've got.
HIT: 20
Relatively high startup, but still possible to hit a shield with, right?
HITLAG: 0 <--- this is ridiculous
BLOCKHITLAG: 8
I was surprised by the 0 hitlag, too. This means that Zero Suit Samus' dsmash imparts no innate disadvantage even when it hits something. Meanwhile, the opponent's frozen in shield for 8 frames.
BLOCKSTUN: 2
DURATION: 34
Mario has 2 frames to buffer something. Zero Suit Samus' attack ends 14 frames after it hits.
FRAME ADVANTAGE: -4
Cool number, right? Mario is left with 4 frames to do something.
How to use frame advantage
So, using the cool example above, Zero Suit Samus has a -4 frame advantage. Conversely, you can say that Mario has a 4 frame advantage. To see how this works, take the startup of any attack and subtract the frame advantage. For example, Mario's uhh, shieldgrab, "hits" on frame 6. With 4 frame advantage, 6 - 4 = 2, so it's the equivalent of grabbing on frame 2.
Unshield: 7 frames
Uhh, no. You're basically giving 3 free frames right back to Zero Suit Samus with this. After that, you definitely have nothing you can do before ZSS can avoid your response.
Shieldgrab: 6 frames
6 - 4 = 2, right? Well, too bad Zero Suit Samus' jab hits on frame 1. This pretty much completely thwarts the usual plan of grabbing after shielding an attack.
Up+B: 3 frames + 1 frame of "jump startup" = 4 frames
Yeah, this is pretty much all you can do. And what about characters who don't have some insanely fast "Dragon Punch" maneuver like Mario? While Marth has his Dolphin Slash due to the startup invulnerability, Meta Knight does not - his Shuttle Loop hits AND ONLY BEGINS TO HAVE INVULNERABILITY on frame 5, which translates to all that stuff happening on frame 6 from shield and means that, once again, ZSS' jab will prevail 1 frame before Meta Knight could've made a difference.
Yeah, that's right.
Addendum - Perfect Shielding
Perfect shielding is hitting shield with good enough timing to "just block" an attack. The timing window is relatively large in Brawl compared to Melee, but anyway.
If you perfect shield an attack, damage to your shield (how much your shield shrinks) is reduced to 0,
Summary
Frame advantage is (almost) always negative in Brawl, but this doesn't mean that there's nothing you can do for legitimate shield pressure. Leaving just large enough of a timing window for you to do something to break out of what would ordinarily look like an unsafe situation (AKA frame-trapping) is all about knowing your negative frame advantage and how to make the most of it.
Hope this helps for whatever you might want to use frame advantage for, and I'll be taking any questions if I might've missed something.
