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What is Spacing?

FatJackieChan

Smash Journeyman
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Jan 1, 2009
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I know that it is very important, and I think I sorta understand it. From what I gather it is the act of getting the correct amount of space between you and your enemy to perform an attack or defensive maneuver . I don't understand how being too close is a problem if your attack is faster than your enemy. (Save Marth who has the tip attack bonus.) If anyone could help explain what it is and how to use it properly I would appreciate it.
 

fissionprime

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what biinii is saying that spacing is important because if you are very close in on the opponent and they shield your attack the can quickly drop the shield and punish you, normallly with a grab. If you have the correct spacing and are further away from the opponent, if they shield your attack you are often far enough for the lag of your attack before the opponent can get to you, and when you are very close to the opponent, you should attack because POTENTIALLY having your attack shielded and being punished is much better then just not doing anything and giving the opponent a free hit.
 

FatJackieChan

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okay, I get that... So spacing is getting the proper space to hit with an attack. I imagine that getting proper spacing is easier when walking. Thanks for the help!
 

Skyshroud

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what biinii is saying that spacing is important because if you are very close in on the opponent and they shield your attack the can quickly drop the shield and punish you, normallly with a grab. If you have the correct spacing and are further away from the opponent, if they shield your attack you are often far enough for the lag of your attack before the opponent can get to you, and when you are very close to the opponent, you should attack because POTENTIALLY having your attack shielded and being punished is much better then just not doing anything and giving the opponent a free hit.
This guy pretty much hit the nail on the head. Using safer attacks with proper spacing makes it very hard to punish you, and gives you a bit more leeway. A good way to see this in action is to play a good Dedede. If you get reckless and get too close, they are going to grab you and the damage is going to pile up. It may not be as noticeable against other characters since you only take small shots here and there. Spacing is all about, "Don't jump into the ****." Sure, you may get killed by the FSmash, but the rest of your stock percent was probably due to making some poor decisions. For beginners, this is often either a) using unsafe attacks, or b) having poor spacing. Learning to use the correct moves in the correct positions will bring up your game a lot.

FatJackieChan: At your last comment, that is correct. This is why you see pros spend a lot less time rolling around than new players. It is easier to control where you are and helps you space better.
 

fissionprime

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well actually its probably not a great idea to walk just so you can space properly, the goal is to reduce the chance your attack will be punished, so you want to have the proper amount of space between you and an opponent when you use an attack.
 

Skyshroud

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well actually its probably not a great idea to walk just so you can space properly, the goal is to reduce the chance your attack will be punished, so you want to have the proper amount of space between you and an opponent when you use an attack.
I was trying to say that a lot of times it's smarter to just drop your shield and walk than just rolling around all of the time. Each type of movement has its place, but you begin to see walking as more useful once you get better at spacing.
 

fissionprime

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yeah i was just saying that you don't want to always walk just so you can space properly because it will give opponents much more time to prepare for your attack and stop it, but yes, walking for the purpose of spacing definitely is a good tool.
 

Natch

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okay, I get that... So spacing is getting the proper space to hit with an attack. I imagine that getting proper spacing is easier when walking. Thanks for the help!
To have figured that out this quickly is actually a little surprising. A lot noobs don't really utilize walking to space. They prefer rolling, which is punishable. Walking is infinitely better if you're trying to space.

For a little bit more info for you chew on, I'll give you an actual scenario that involves spacing to give you an advantage, and your opponent a disadvantage. I'll use Marth in this example since spacing is at the core of Marth's gameplay.

1. You have just knocked your opponent off of the stage.
2. You have plenty of time to move around.

Okay, so you knocked them off the stage, and you have enough time to do something. You can try to go off the stage for a gimp kill, or possibly edgehog their recovery. But there is a 3rd option at your disposal which has a Risk:Reward ratio that is highly in your favor; space yourself from the edge. To my knowledge, the ideal spacing for Marth is to be one tippered Fsmash away from the ledge.

You have now limited their options. If they try to get up from the ledge, or use a get up attack, you can Fsmash them, possibly for a kill-Marth's tippered Fsmash has very high knockback. If they try to roll, you can just turn around and grab them-once a character begins the roll animation, they have commited to their movement. They will always move to the same place every time. If they try to jump, you can try an Up+B, or a full/short hopped aerial.

Now that I think about it, Marth can also use Dancing Blade-his Side+B-to space in a manner similar to Fsmash.

I hope this helps, and that it wasn't too much data all at once. If you ever have a question, you can ask me if you wish-I'll gladly help you out.

yeah i was just saying that you don't want to always walk just so you can space properly because it will give opponents much more time to prepare for your attack and stop it, but yes, walking for the purpose of spacing definitely is a good tool.
Um, you're wrong. Walking doesn't give opponents "much more time" to prepare for your attack. Because guess what? You're walking. You have options. If you see them "preparing", then you know they're ready for you to attack (also, you're original statement-walking is not good for spacing-is still incorrect. Don't act like you were right, you'll be giving this guy faulty information.)

First off, if they decide to stand still, you are automatically at the advantage. Even if they know the attack is coming, you have spaced your move properly. You will not be punished, because you're too far away. If, for whatever reasons, your move is not safe on block*, then you simply choose not to use that move. If you are aware that they know what you're going to do, don't do it. You have lots of options when walking.

If both you and your opponent are staring eachother down point blank, I wouldn't walk. They can probably hit you before you're far enough away.

Oops, I wrote another block of text. Sorry about that

*Safe on block: This means that you can attack someone with their shield up, and cannot be punished assuming you have the proper spacing, if any.
 

fissionprime

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no i'm just saying you don't want to walk (and never run) just to allow yourself to space better, because obviously you would give the opponent a ton of time to think and allow them to counter your attacks easily.

walking does make spacing easier, but running and walking both have their time and place. Normally you aren't going to want to do something like walk the entire stage to get toi the opponent, in that case you would often want to approach them faster.
 

Skyshroud

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no i'm just saying you don't want to walk (and never run) just to allow yourself to space better, because obviously you would give the opponent a ton of time to think and allow them to counter your attacks easily.

walking does make spacing easier, but running and walking both have their time and place. Normally you aren't going to want to do something like walk the entire stage to get toi the opponent, in that case you would often want to approach them faster.
Speedy approach is not as good as a careful (i.e. safe) approach. If you run at them, you can only shield, USmash, Dash attack, grab, or jump. And some of those options are probably limited by your character. From walking, you also pose the threat of a tilt, FSmash, or DSmash. Look at Snake. If you (for some reason) decide to approach the opponent, walking is a much better idea, as you have access to the tilts.

EDIT: Plus, walking beats projectile spam and is the only way to get close to some campy characters.
 

Airgemini

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Spacing an aerial is safer than just blindly attacking since you're less open to punishment. Take Peach's Fair for example, if spaced right it becomes pretty much unpunishable because in addition to its auto cancel it lets her follow up with a jab immediately afterwards and not risk being sheild grabbed.

Also, if you space right you can often avoid your opponents attacks in the process. Say if Peach is fighting a Marth in the air and they both use Fair. If Marth rushes his aggressively spacing with Peach's Fair is essential because it'll avoid his Fair, outrange it, and hit him.

All in all its pretty much just a technique to make your aerials/whatever safer and less open to pun ishment by your opponents.
 

fissionprime

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yeah i guess i've been using the wrong train of thought.
I was thinking
quick approach > more options

when, yes it is better to walk because you are able to counter whatever your opponent decides to do during the approach.
 

Natch

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no i'm just saying you don't want to walk (and never run) just to allow yourself to space better, because obviously you would give the opponent a ton of time to think and allow them to counter your attacks easily.
....

Read it again. I never said you should never run. Nobody said that. This is what you have said so far.

1. Walking is not good for spacing.
This was proven incorrect. You revised your statement.

2. Walking is good spacing, but you don't want to use it all because it gives your opponent more time to think.

I agree that walking should not be used all time, and there are reasons for that. But the fact that your opponent has more time to think is not one of them. Sure, they have more time to think. So do you. Assuming they don't move from their position, you still retain the advantage. No amount of thinking can give your attacks more reach.

They have to act on that knowledge. They have to outspace you. They have to move.

1. Rolling

Rolling doesn't work. If you are walking to space, you will be able to act upon their roll. . The opponent has chosen a form of movement that has a fixed path. But the person who walked for spacing can punish their opponent for rolling. If the opponent rolls away, you might have enough time to chase them with a dash-your fastest form of movement-and punish while they are still in lag from the roll. If it turns out you can't punish them, take advantage of their lag and space yourself at the optimal position once again. If they roll towards you, you get a free hit or a free grab.

2. Running

Running is eh. Out of a run, the opponent has less options than you do. You cannot use your jab, tilts, or smash attacks. The safer options-jump and shield-are nothing better than what your opponent can do. Besides that, you saw them running towards you, so you had quite enough time to identify the fact that their options have been limited. This is a huge "What if" scenario, so I'll end this by saying that the player with the most options in any given situation has the advantage.

3. Jumping

Congratulations, your opponent is now up in the air. This situation is a little even, but you still have options that your opponent does not, and vice versa. It is possible to use jumping as a form a spacing, so this becomes a battle of who can outspace who.

4. Walking

Last one. If you both you and the opponent are walking, you both have the exact same options. Like jumping, this becomes a battle of outspacing your opponent.

You may reply at your leasiure.

EDIT: Aww. Everybody else already posted before me.
 

fissionprime

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I agree that walking should not be used all time, and there are reasons for that. But the fact that your opponent has more time to think is not one of them. Sure, they have more time to think. So do you. Assuming they don't move from their position, you still retain the advantage. No amount of thinking can give your attacks more reach.

They have to act on that knowledge. They have to outspace you. They have to move.
Yeah i didn't have very good reasoning there, you do have the same time to think as the opponent and walking allows you to close the distance without losing your options. So yeah, you're right.
 

Pierce7d

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no i'm just saying you don't want to walk (and never run) just to allow yourself to space better, because obviously you would give the opponent a ton of time to think and allow them to counter your attacks easily.

walking does make spacing easier, but running and walking both have their time and place. Normally you aren't going to want to do something like walk the entire stage to get toi the opponent, in that case you would often want to approach them faster.
This is not true. Using a style I adopted from watching P.C. Chris at the early days of Brawl, I walk and DESTROY my opponents. An good opponent will always be ready for an attack, humans react in about 6 frames (1/10th of a second). By walking and being patient, you can execute better attacks.
 

FatJackieChan

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Wow, that really clears things up for me. I am a Marth player so I figured that it was essential to know how to do this. I use other characters but in general I need a lot of help. I suppose I should repeat what spacing is to make sure I get it, and I'll also try to explain what to do in a situation where they are closer than you want for your spacing.

Spacing is moving your character into a spot where your attacks can hit, but your body is further back and thus it keeps you safe. Attacking while being to close is risky because with proper spacing their shield has more lag. All attacks can be spaced, even aerials. Projectiles.... (Do projectiles have spacing?)
If someone has well placed spacing on you it would be intelligent to move so your shield has less lag time.

In a situation where your character is to close with most moves, it is intelligent to move back because you have many options while possibly avoiding your opponents attack.

So my next question would be: Do projectiles have spacing, and if so do the shields lag longer if the move doesn't go out as far.

I suppose that I should learn all my attacks reach to make sure I can use it in battle. I have a basic idea but missing never seems to be very good.

I tend to fight people who roll a lot. I am thinking that rolling's main use is to get behind a opponent who is in the midst of a smash or tilt or like Kirby's jab combo. My friends roll more often. I tend to use smash moves and short hop aerials in close combat unless I am walking where I am wide open to anything. In a situation where I am using smash moves and they are rolling around, should I get away to create situations where I can space properly, or should I predict where my opponent will be and try to smash or tilt or hit him?
 

Natch

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Wow, that really clears things up for me. I am a Marth player so I figured that it was essential to know how to do this. I use other characters but in general I need a lot of help. I suppose I should repeat what spacing is to make sure I get it, and I'll also try to explain what to do in a situation where they are closer than you want for your spacing.

Spacing is moving your character into a spot where your attacks can hit, but your body is further back and thus it keeps you safe. Attacking while being to close is risky because with proper spacing their shield has more lag. All attacks can be spaced, even aerials. Projectiles.... (Do projectiles have spacing?)
If someone has well placed spacing on you it would be intelligent to move so your shield has less lag time.

In a situation where your character is to close with most moves, it is intelligent to move back because you have many options while possibly avoiding your opponents attack.

So my next question would be: Do projectiles have spacing, and if so do the shields lag longer if the move doesn't go out as far.

I suppose that I should learn all my attacks reach to make sure I can use it in battle. I have a basic idea but missing never seems to be very good.

I tend to fight people who roll a lot. I am thinking that rolling's main use is to get behind a opponent who is in the midst of a smash or tilt or like Kirby's jab combo. My friends roll more often. I tend to use smash moves and short hop aerials in close combat unless I am walking where I am wide open to anything. In a situation where I am using smash moves and they are rolling around, should I get away to create situations where I can space properly, or should I predict where my opponent will be and try to smash or tilt or hit him?
When you hit the opponent's shield from a farther distance, they still undergo the same amount of lag than if it were a close distance. What matters is that you're farther away. Shield grabbing(Holding Shield, then pressing the attack button) is very potent in Brawl. You can shield grab non-disjointed hitboxes quite well. By being farther away, they already lack the option to shield grab.

Back the lag issue. As I said before, the hit lag is the same regardless of range. However, suppose you are far enough away to not be grabbed, but still close enough to be hit by their Ftilt, which comes out on frame 5. Let's also assume that they recover from the lag 15 frames(1/4 of a second)* before you do. Since they shielded your attack, they have to drop shield before they can use their Ftilt. On average, it takes 7 frames** from when your drop your shield to when you can first do an action. So in reality, they only have 8 frames to punish you. They can still Ftilt you, however.

But, if you use your attack from the farthest range possible-which is out of the range of their Ftilt-they still have only 8 frames to punish you. But you happen to be farther away, and their Ftilt can't reach you. They might be able to land a dash attack, but they have to start dashing first, and 8 frames is not that long, to be honest. For a comparison, Marth's Fair comes out on Frame 4.

To answer your question about projectiles, yes. They do have spacing. Let's use Lucas as an example. Lucas' Side+B(as I assume you know) has okay range. It can't go across the whole stage, but it's good enough. However, if he uses the projectile when he's too close to you-which is a spacing error-you can punish him-assuming that you managed to avoid it with your shield/spotdodge/etc. I hope this helps.

Your next question regarding what to do against people who roll: First off, aerials aren't your best option when you're right smack dab in front of your opponent. Using aerials when you're at the maximum range of Marth's sword is a better idea-avoid using Marth's Dair, it has a lot lag after it.

Using smash attacks at close range-especially with Marth-is not a good idea. He has enough lag on every single smash attack that the opponent can just stand right in front of you doing nothing, and manage to shield it every single time. Try using your Forward+B(It has multiple hits as you probably know, so learn the rhythm of it.) Having 4 hits in a row can really batter on an opponent's shield, and lots of newer players won't shield the whole thing. If it looks like an opponent will shield all 4 parts of the attack-which allows them to punish you about 50% of the time-then simply do not complete the move. Marth will move backwards a bit, and you can get out range from there.

Wow, I haven't even answered your rolling quesiton yet. Simply put, if you know your opponent is going to roll, make sure you're right there so you can punish them. If they love rolling behind you, start charging a smash in the oppisite direction as soon as they're front of your face. Only do this if you know that they'll choose to roll, instead of just shield it and punish like they -should- be. Or you can choose to do nothing when they're right in front of your face and see what happens-bad players are notorious for panicking when they're in close range.

The spacing option is also a viable one, but if you have a chance to punish their mistake, do it.

*Many attacks in Brawl are not safe on block-Marth is fortunate his Fair has little lag, good range, and his aerial mobility is enough for him to advance and retreat in the same shorthop.

**If you powershield an attack, you do not have the 7 frames of lag when dropping your shield. You can act immediatly after you powershield.
 

CSBrokaw

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My opinion (and I am sure others as well) of ideal spacing is attacking from as far as possible so that the very edge of the hitbox (only what is needed) hits the opponent.

That is why I like Snake: his (broken) spacing :)
 

SleeplessInKyoto

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Spacing is how you position yourself next to your opponent. As everyone has been saying, the idea is to space yourself properly so that you can hit them, but they cannot hit you.

If you want your spacing to improve, play Marth. Spacing is probably the most important thing in his metagame, and my spacing improved with all my characters when i practised Marth.
 

Crow!

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Spacing is choosing one of the space animals (fox, falco, wolf) as your character. In melee it was an essential tactic, though its importance has diminished in Brawl.

jk :psycho:

Seriously, though, it's kind of a blanket term for the art of positioning yourself in the best possible location. If you have a low lag attack which has longer range than anything your opponent can safely do, then the obvious optimal spacing is at the edge of your attack range. Aside from that obvious case, it's actually a rather complicated concept. The objective of spacing is to minimize the risk of an attack being landed on you before you can react while putting maximum pressure on your opponent. How this is done depends both on your character and on the matchup (and sometimes on the current percentages and stale moves queue of each player).
 

FatJackieChan

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To Natch:
I get spacing now! Yay! Last night I learned most of the spacing on Marth's moves. I get tippers when my opponent is on the ledge all the time. (I found the exact spot on FD to do it!) I played against my friend and I waited for a bit before he moved to help with the rolling issue. I now can get him 75% of the time. But from this he rolls a lot less and I am walking of a lot more. When he rolls he is punished, when he takes a smash and I am too close is one of the few times I roll. (I only roll when they are already committed to an attack.) I get power shields all the time so that typically makes it even easier for me to punish. Now in the situations where I would walk away for spacing, he dashes at me and sometimes I role behind but I often get him. :( I have been a smash fan for a long time and know somewhat about frames. I have been able to do the Side-B for... now that it is 2009 I would say 7 years. I used to play Roy, and Marth's is really easy to do! I am coincidentally also a Lucas player! Now that spacing is cleared up a bit, it makes perfect sense to me. I have a little bit work to do on spacing but the fundamentals make perfect sense now.

To Crow!
I wish I played a space animal. I like all three of them! My match-ups are typically Marth (me) against Toon Link or Kirby. I have a complete advantage when it comes to spacing. My friend also plays Marth so we keep trying to get out of the way of each other and typically he makes a mistake and it costs him... big time.

To All
What is outspacing and how is it performed?
 

Natch

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To Natch:
I get spacing now! Yay! Last night I learned most of the spacing on Marth's moves. I get tippers when my opponent is on the ledge all the time. (I found the exact spot on FD to do it!) I played against my friend and I waited for a bit before he moved to help with the rolling issue. I now can get him 75% of the time. But from this he rolls a lot less and I am walking of a lot more. When he rolls he is punished, when he takes a smash and I am too close is one of the few times I roll. (I only roll when they are already committed to an attack.) I get power shields all the time so that typically makes it even easier for me to punish. Now in the situations where I would walk away for spacing, he dashes at me and sometimes I role behind but I often get him. :( I have been a smash fan for a long time and know somewhat about frames. I have been able to do the Side-B for... now that it is 2009 I would say 7 years. I used to play Roy, and Marth's is really easy to do! I am coincidentally also a Lucas player! Now that spacing is cleared up a bit, it makes perfect sense to me. I have a little bit work to do on spacing but the fundamentals make perfect sense now.

To Crow!
I wish I played a space animal. I like all three of them! My match-ups are typically Marth (me) against Toon Link or Kirby. I have a complete advantage when it comes to spacing. My friend also plays Marth so we keep trying to get out of the way of each other and typically he makes a mistake and it costs him... big time.

To All
What is outspacing and how is it performed?
Wow, you're taking in all this knowledge like a sponge.

And outspacing is simply spacing better than you're opponent. This is basically trying to space when they're trying to space. It's battle of who can outspace who.

And in those situations where you're rolling when they do a smash attack, see if it's possible to shield it, drop your shield, then punish. It doesn't have to be a powershield, since if you attack their shield at close range, chances are you can be punished.
 

FatJackieChan

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Sweet! I typically outspace him so... I tend to roll out of habit, so I hope I can do that, but in the heat of battle it can be easy to fall back to what I'm used too. So if it's better to shield in those close situations, when is it a good time to roll? And in terms of power shielding vs. normal shield I shield if I don't get the power shield. I usually don't have a problem doing it late rather than too early, although it really isn't a problem rather than it is just normal shielding. I think I am just the best player I know. The only people that I know that are better are like my brother's friend's friend's. So I really don't see them at all, but I hear stories about how they could kick my *** at the game any day, and it really makes me mad! I think that I could get this better if I had more people in my smash community. (Including myself there are 5 people, and one is easily discouraged because he is the worst player. (But he isn't as bad as he thinks. :())
So I am thinking that Marth has good match-ups because of his reach/spacing. I found this out because he has one on Toon Link and my friend who mains both of them said, "Spacing isn't all that important for Toon Link, if Toon Link can hit Marth, Marth has probably already nocked Toon Link across the stage, the only way to hit him is to trick him." And I assume that most characters would follow suit.

I could have learned every advanced technique in the game and I still wouldn't win because I don't even know this stuff. What are some other basics that I should make sure I should know?
 

Natch

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Sweet! I typically outspace him so... I tend to roll out of habit, so I hope I can do that, but in the heat of battle it can be easy to fall back to what I'm used too. So if it's better to shield in those close situations, when is it a good time to roll? And in terms of power shielding vs. normal shield I shield if I don't get the power shield. I usually don't have a problem doing it late rather than too early, although it really isn't a problem rather than it is just normal shielding. I think I am just the best player I know. The only people that I know that are better are like my brother's friend's friend's. So I really don't see them at all, but I hear stories about how they could kick my *** at the game any day, and it really makes me mad! I think that I could get this better if I had more people in my smash community. (Including myself there are 5 people, and one is easily discouraged because he is the worst player. (But he isn't as bad as he thinks. :())
So I am thinking that Marth has good match-ups because of his reach/spacing. I found this out because he has one on Toon Link and my friend who mains both of them said, "Spacing isn't all that important for Toon Link, if Toon Link can hit Marth, Marth has probably already nocked Toon Link across the stage, the only way to hit him is to trick him." And I assume that most characters would follow suit.

I could have learned every advanced technique in the game and I still wouldn't win because I don't even know this stuff. What are some other basics that I should make sure I should know?
Rolling is useful if you need to quickly get out of an opponent's face-but after the first roll, probably don't need to roll anymore. Things like Bowser's or Charizard's Flamethrower-you're not going to roll behind them if they're doing that. See, the first frames before you roll forwards are not invincibility frames. Charizard's Flamethrower will hit you and stop you from rolling behind him. If you roll Backwards, you have invincibility frames right at the start, allowing you to roll out of it safely.

And you are correct in saying that Marth has good matchups because of his range. The large majority of matchups are slightly in his favor

Among the other things you need to know are character based things. As you know, if you use a move over and over, it becomes weaker. This effect is much more exaggerated in Brawl than it was in Melee. As a note, the game remembers your last 9 moves-somehow we figured this out. It's important to remember to keep your killing moves fresh, and to learn what percents they will kill at. Character knowledge is important.

Mostly, you just have to play smart. Try not leave yourself open. Don't get hit, don't get grabbed. If you got hit or grabbed, you made a mistake.

If you can indentify those mistakes and fix them, you'll get better.
 

Marth Xero

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Location
Texas
FJC, IMO you are have the luckiest situation possible for an up-and-coming smasher. Specifically, you have offline friends to play. I only have little brothers who are so bad that they don't get affected by mindgames, lol. There is WiFi, but lag completely ruins the metagame and adds a slight random factor to the game.

Natch, thank you for the information, I'm going to try and let this improve my game (amazingly, I use Marth to an extent too) as much as I can. But I have too many bad habits to break before I can become good at this game.
 

FatJackieChan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
229
Thanks for all the help. I suppose I should go over spacing just to make sure I have it. (Again)

Spacing is your characters position in comparison to your opponent's character's position. With proper spacing, the attacks you use are forcing a movement on the enemy while keeping yourself safe. If your spacing is wrong, then you will either miss or your enemy can shield to be able to punish easily. In a situation where your enemy is too close, it is typically a good idea to walk away from an attack to give yourself proper spacing. All attacks can be spaced, even projectiles and aerials.

So this tells me that the shield must be used all the time in advanced play, and rolling is typically not all that useful. Thanks for all the help while I try to figure out the rest of the basics. lol
 

Natch

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
649
Location
San Diego, CA
NNID
Natch42
Thanks for all the help. I suppose I should go over spacing just to make sure I have it. (Again)

Spacing is your characters position in comparison to your opponent's character's position. With proper spacing, the attacks you use are forcing a movement on the enemy while keeping yourself safe. If your spacing is wrong, then you will either miss or your enemy can shield to be able to punish easily. In a situation where your enemy is too close, it is typically a good idea to walk away from an attack to give yourself proper spacing. All attacks can be spaced, even projectiles and aerials.

So this tells me that the shield must be used all the time in advanced play, and rolling is typically not all that useful. Thanks for all the help while I try to figure out the rest of the basics. lol
Shielding is used a lot. Same with spotdodging, but it's easy to get into the habit of spotdodging too much. Really, as long as you're able to use your defensive options and not get punished, you'll be fine.

And again, you can PM me if you have any questions.

I could have learned every advanced technique in the game and I still wouldn't win because I don't even know this stuff. What are some other basics that I should make sure I should know?
Holy crap, I just re-read this. Seriously, this is one of the biggest things EVER that holds new players back.

You may not know everything, but you have the right mind to grasp it.
 

Villi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1,370
Location
California
Spacing is that special feeling you get when you see the girl you like bend over to pick up a quarter.
 

FatJackieChan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
229
Thanks, I started learning smash Advanced Techniques 4 years ago. I learned wave dashing, l-cancel, and I could SHFFL a little bit. I started learning a whole bunch of Lucas's techs as well. I used smashwiki to learn most of the stuff. Then I made an account here and saw spacing, zoning, punishing. And then this is the exact quote of what I said, "Wow, I suck at Smash Bros." I played this game from the start, and have been trying to play competitively for years, and then after I start thinking, "I own, I could win quite a few fights at my level. In this game I would say I am a 7 out of 10 player at this." I was one of those arrogant noobs! And then that realization just hit me. The only good thing that came out of this is that I completely understand the physics of this game with frames and lag, so it all is pretty easy to understand.

Off topic: Natch, what character do you play?
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
I didn't read through the whole topic, but spacing doesn't always mean maximum distance to poke.

If you're using a projectile, you want to be far away. This is spacing.

Also, I am well known for running behind my opponent before using Dancing Blade especially if they spot dodge, and I want to hit them off the stage. This is a form of spacing (and mindgames).
 

Natch

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
649
Location
San Diego, CA
NNID
Natch42
Thanks, I started learning smash Advanced Techniques 4 years ago. I learned wave dashing, l-cancel, and I could SHFFL a little bit. I started learning a whole bunch of Lucas's techs as well. I used smashwiki to learn most of the stuff. Then I made an account here and saw spacing, zoning, punishing. And then this is the exact quote of what I said, "Wow, I suck at Smash Bros." I played this game from the start, and have been trying to play competitively for years, and then after I start thinking, "I own, I could win quite a few fights at my level. In this game I would say I am a 7 out of 10 player at this." I was one of those arrogant noobs! And then that realization just hit me. The only good thing that came out of this is that I completely understand the physics of this game with frames and lag, so it all is pretty easy to understand.

Off topic: Natch, what character do you play?
I main Snake, and use Kirby and Lucas as secondaries. I've been characting hopping since Brawl same out, and this is my final "roster" for the time being. Since the game came out, these are all of the characters that I've used and actively sought to learn for some period of time:

-Pikachu
-Lucas
-Luigi
-Kirby
-Pokemon Trainer
-Pit
-Snake

I can use a lot of other characters and at least -pretend- to know what I'm doing, simply because I've played against and seen those characters fight so many times.
 
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