blakinola
Constantly Delicious
Starting right now. Will update op as information happens.
Ak
Ak
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Complete Grab-Release (congo carry) thread in-progress
- Thread starter blakinola
- Start date
Mith_
Smash Champion
Oh yeaaaaaa.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
I've been thinking about this for a long time now. It's too important for DK to not have a thread for it yet. Thanks.
Monkey Wrench
Smash Apprentice
DK grab releases? Sounds like good stuff. Can't wait to see what happens.
Tujex
Smash Ace
Awesome. I thought I was gonna have to get off my lazy behind and do this myself. I can assist if needed.
Luigi player
Smash Master
What does everyone expect here? DK can only really chaingrab/grab release Ness and Lucas and noone else.
I'm really sure even a jab is too slow to hit your enemy before he can dodge/shield. And if your opponent makes mistakes you could hit them with everything.
I'm really sure even a jab is too slow to hit your enemy before he can dodge/shield. And if your opponent makes mistakes you could hit them with everything.
powuh_of_PIE
Smash Journeyman
Grab releases are not necessarily going to be used for chaingrabs: they put the opponent in good positions for you to **** them. I look forward to seeing this thread develop, and I can help if needed.
although not a cargo-release, DK's normal grab-release on wario goes into f.smash, (good for damage) dash upsmash (KOing), giant punch, or even 9 wind (koing at 60%+)
Mith_
Smash Champion
Yea grab releases can lead to more than just chain grabs LP 
Since grabbing is a big part of DK's game its important to know all of your options after you grab your opponent, rather than just throwing.
Since grabbing is a big part of DK's game its important to know all of your options after you grab your opponent, rather than just throwing.
Blad01
Smash Lord
Wow i learned so much with this thread !
lol
Looking forward to the results ^^
lol
Looking forward to the results ^^
Luigi player
Smash Master
No, he can double jump to avoid it...
Maybe you could jump and use the 9-punch, but I didn't test it. The fsmash does not work, because he can just jump before you'd hit him.
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
I haven't done any extensive testing, but I think only the upsmash and fully charged punch would be guaranteed, and I'm not even sure about those.
I need more experience vs Wario.
I need more experience vs Wario.
Luigi player
Smash Master
The running upsmash hits him and works good, but this is known anyway.
9-wind punch doesn't work? Not even if you jump? Ah well it is really slow..
9-wind punch doesn't work? Not even if you jump? Ah well it is really slow..
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
Just looking at frame data, it wouldn't make sense for the 9-punch to work.
You should have 20 frames of time to perform whatever attack you want to do. Punches that are not fully charged don't hit in front of you until frame 26, whereas fully charged punches can hit on frame 19. The only way a 9-punch would connect is if you somehow predict and follow what your opponent does.
Up and down smashes should have enough time to execute, but the forward smash also doesn't hit until after 20 frames.
You should have 20 frames of time to perform whatever attack you want to do. Punches that are not fully charged don't hit in front of you until frame 26, whereas fully charged punches can hit on frame 19. The only way a 9-punch would connect is if you somehow predict and follow what your opponent does.
Up and down smashes should have enough time to execute, but the forward smash also doesn't hit until after 20 frames.
In training mode, i would Grab, hit him once, let out...mash B...it registers as a 2 hit combo.
Either ya'll aren't pressing B twice in a row fast enough, or training mode is lying to me about what is a combo.
i'm about to test it with a human, to see...
Either ya'll aren't pressing B twice in a row fast enough, or training mode is lying to me about what is a combo.
i'm about to test it with a human, to see...
Mith_
Smash Champion
good luck man. hopefully this can even up the wario matchup lol.
BLAH. i fail.
training mode lied to me.
DI doesn't affect wario's grab release distance, obviously, and it registered as a combo...but if Wario mashes the jump button, perhaps he recovers earlier.
A wario can jump out before the 9 wind...
training mode lied to me.
DI doesn't affect wario's grab release distance, obviously, and it registered as a combo...but if Wario mashes the jump button, perhaps he recovers earlier.
A wario can jump out before the 9 wind...
DKwill
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,232
- Location
- Planking the ledge 185 times over.
- 3DS FC
- 3497-1934-6087
The down smash definitely comes out fast enough, and you can use it almost immediately since its vertical range extends to about that of the up smash. I haven't personally tried up smash out of grab release on Wario but I'm looking forward to it =)
after testing w/ a human who was turbo mashing Y from the grab. If timed correctly, the F.smash, Dash UpSmash, stepping D.Smash, and fully charged Giant punch should ALL WORK. (at least)
this is still very good.
this is still very good.
Thought so. I know theres a timing to make the 9 punch come out as fast as possible but im pretty sure its still too slow.BLAH. i fail.
training mode lied to me.
DI doesn't affect wario's grab release distance, obviously, and it registered as a combo...but if Wario mashes the jump button, perhaps he recovers earlier.
A wario can jump out before the 9 wind...
As far as i know, up smash and fully charged punch are the only two moves that work. Maybe forward smash but im not sure.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
usmash works just as well >.>
powuh_of_PIE
Smash Journeyman
yea but let's say your playing on BF and been using usmash a bit too much, better to use a fresh fsmash if it's available wouldn't you say? Other options are useful to have.
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
I'm not convinced on the fsmash, but it doesn't matter since I'd rather use the upsmash in most situations anyway (pretty much all the time unless I'm on Jungle Japes or something, in which case Wario has a whole other host of problems).
Luigi player
Smash Master
Fsmash doesn't work. I buffered it after Wario was grab released and he could jump away before it hit him.
This information needs to be compiled. Does Fsmash really work? What about the other smashes and under what conditions? Is it possible to 9-wind out of a grab release? What about footstool? If I had brawl next to me I'd try it.
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
When grabbing Snake, slowly bring him to the ledge and walk in place. When the grab release happens and you both fall off the stage buffer an up-B, I'm pretty sure he'll be hit no matter what. You can then grab the ledge and follow up with a B-air to Etc.
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
Okay now this right here is something I never would have even thought to try. I'm going to have to do some experimenting.
Just so I know, how many frames of lag to people get during a cargo release? (I was under the assumption that it would be 30 for both characters, unless Ness or Lucas are involved).
EDIT: Quick check says that DK gets a 1-frame advantage on all characters for a cargo release. I suppose we just have to abuse the speed of our aerial up+b.
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
(Double post because this is too long for an edit)
Okay, I just went through the various boards and compared some frame data. I'm assuming that the information I have is correct, in that DK gets a 1-frame advantage on people during a cargo release, and that his aerial up+b first hits on frame 4. Therefore, I'm checking to see what characters can do something within 3 frames to avoid this.
This list is untested and does not consider falling speeds or character's abilities to simply jump away. Please do not just assume that this will work without testing. I don't even know if all the frame data is correct.
Characters who will easily escape
Bowser: Up+b with invincibility frames (not sure)
DK: If he breaks out earlier than other characters, he will obviously hit you first with just about anything
Marth: Up+B with invincibility frames
Metaknight: Uair may be faster
Peach: Nair may be faster
Sheik: Nair may be faster
Zero Suit Samus: Down+B with invincibility frames
Characters who may be able to avoid it but it's like super risky
Jigglypuff: I doubt it's lined up correctly, but rest is fast enough. She will obviously fall to her death if this is done.
Olimar: Down+b may work, but you can then edgehog him to death.
Snake: Can pull a grenade, but this is a bad idea if you simply don't up+b right away.
Wolf: Down+b may avoid, but you can then edgehog
I don't have frame data
Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Ice Climbers, King Dedede, Link, Pokemon Trainer, ROB, Samus, Sonic
Attacks are equally as fast as DK's aerial up+b*
Falco: Nair
Fox: Down+b
Luigi: Nair
Mario: Up+b
Pikachu: Nair and Uair
Pit: Nair
Yoshi: Nair
* : While they may be equally fast, DK's up+b has invincibility frames. I would expect him to beat these characters.
Game & Watch just has to be different, doesn't he?
- If Oil Panic is fully charged, it will be faster
- Up+b may be able to push us away
- His air dodge may come out in time
Characters who cannot attack or air dodge in time
Ganondorf, Ike, Kirby, Lucario, Lucas, Ness, Toon Link, Wario, Zelda
I stress again that this is completely untested. Characters who simply fall too fast or slow will not be in range of the up+b, and most of the others can simply jump away.
Also, if you don't buffer the up+b, you will probably be footstooled to death by just about every character.
Okay, I just went through the various boards and compared some frame data. I'm assuming that the information I have is correct, in that DK gets a 1-frame advantage on people during a cargo release, and that his aerial up+b first hits on frame 4. Therefore, I'm checking to see what characters can do something within 3 frames to avoid this.
This list is untested and does not consider falling speeds or character's abilities to simply jump away. Please do not just assume that this will work without testing. I don't even know if all the frame data is correct.
Characters who will easily escape
Bowser: Up+b with invincibility frames (not sure)
DK: If he breaks out earlier than other characters, he will obviously hit you first with just about anything
Marth: Up+B with invincibility frames
Metaknight: Uair may be faster
Peach: Nair may be faster
Sheik: Nair may be faster
Zero Suit Samus: Down+B with invincibility frames
Characters who may be able to avoid it but it's like super risky
Jigglypuff: I doubt it's lined up correctly, but rest is fast enough. She will obviously fall to her death if this is done.
Olimar: Down+b may work, but you can then edgehog him to death.
Snake: Can pull a grenade, but this is a bad idea if you simply don't up+b right away.
Wolf: Down+b may avoid, but you can then edgehog
I don't have frame data
Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Ice Climbers, King Dedede, Link, Pokemon Trainer, ROB, Samus, Sonic
Attacks are equally as fast as DK's aerial up+b*
Falco: Nair
Fox: Down+b
Luigi: Nair
Mario: Up+b
Pikachu: Nair and Uair
Pit: Nair
Yoshi: Nair
* : While they may be equally fast, DK's up+b has invincibility frames. I would expect him to beat these characters.
Game & Watch just has to be different, doesn't he?
- If Oil Panic is fully charged, it will be faster
- Up+b may be able to push us away
- His air dodge may come out in time
Characters who cannot attack or air dodge in time
Ganondorf, Ike, Kirby, Lucario, Lucas, Ness, Toon Link, Wario, Zelda
I stress again that this is completely untested. Characters who simply fall too fast or slow will not be in range of the up+b, and most of the others can simply jump away.
Also, if you don't buffer the up+b, you will probably be footstooled to death by just about every character.
Luigi player
Smash Master
Yeah but only a little. It's not really difficult to time it right.
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
It's not even timing. You could probably hold up and mash B while you are waiting for the release.
I mean, yeah, it's certainly risky, but it would be worth it if it works.
I'm really curious now to know which characters (if any) can't jump away in time. It would be a pretty useful technique if it's guaranteed.
I mean, yeah, it's certainly risky, but it would be worth it if it works.
I'm really curious now to know which characters (if any) can't jump away in time. It would be a pretty useful technique if it's guaranteed.
Donkey Bong
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
- Messages
- 610
mario's upb also has invincibility frames and so does MK's
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
MetaKnight's invincibility frames are only on his GROUNDED shuttle loop, and even then they aren't until frame 5 (they would need to be on frame 3 in order to avoid our up+b). Either way, his uair is fast enough anyway.
I did not know about Mario's up+b having invincibility, though. Their frame data thread is rather incomplete. I would need to know when the invincibility is to know if it would save him, though.
I don't really think that the aerial cargo release to up b is good because they seem to be able to DI much better in the air. It would probably be better to cargo down throw them into stage if you can't cargo stage spike because it sometimes combos into up b. If they happen to break out I guess it is good to know that you can probably up b them though.
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
Honestly, I'm mostly thinking of it from a perspective of where you are going for the cargo down throw but they happen to break out just before you do. It would be good to know which characters you will still get a hit in against.