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Official G&W Stage Discussion #14: Jungle Japes
- Thread starter K 2
- Start date
The high ceilings allows G&W to survive vertical attacks better with bucket braking, although it slightly hinders his usmash. G&W's dsmash is deadly on the side platforms, since the blastzones are so tight. The platforms are perfect for dthrow techchasing. I can usually get in 40% on the side platforms with dthrows.
We all know falco is amazing here, so definately avoid him. You might want to bring Olimar here, since the water kills all his pikman and I think he can't back to the stage if he doesn't have a blue pikman on him.
A.A. mentioned how G&W was really good in the water, but that might be really risky on this stage.
The aligator comes every 10 seconds, so you might be able to use that to your advantage.
We all know falco is amazing here, so definately avoid him. You might want to bring Olimar here, since the water kills all his pikman and I think he can't back to the stage if he doesn't have a blue pikman on him.
A.A. mentioned how G&W was really good in the water, but that might be really risky on this stage.
The aligator comes every 10 seconds, so you might be able to use that to your advantage.
Ban For falco
High Ceilings are good for Bucket Breaking as mentioned above but also reduces your ability to kill with Upsmash and a d-throw to Up-smash techchase
As to olimar's pikman i noticed when i used to main him that water is like a damage over time to pikman i never bothered to calculate the pikmans life span in water but i did also notice if the pikman have previous damage to them they die faster then the others of the same color (each color having it's own percentage) so if you nock of an olimar mid stage they might be able to recover if pikman are fresh so don't be surprised if done from platforms thier is nothing the olimar can do
I'd like to mention this stage isn't always tourny legal
thier are far better stages to bring some one but this is not that bad of a stage just nothing that really stands out
6/10 imo if not then mabe 7/10
High Ceilings are good for Bucket Breaking as mentioned above but also reduces your ability to kill with Upsmash and a d-throw to Up-smash techchase
As to olimar's pikman i noticed when i used to main him that water is like a damage over time to pikman i never bothered to calculate the pikmans life span in water but i did also notice if the pikman have previous damage to them they die faster then the others of the same color (each color having it's own percentage) so if you nock of an olimar mid stage they might be able to recover if pikman are fresh so don't be surprised if done from platforms thier is nothing the olimar can do
I'd like to mention this stage isn't always tourny legal
thier are far better stages to bring some one but this is not that bad of a stage just nothing that really stands out
6/10 imo if not then mabe 7/10
Yeah, jumping in the water here intentionally would be pretty dumb. Anyway, I rather like this stage, but I won't be ready to put up a full analysis until later.
Despite the high ceiling, I really like this stage. It reminds me of Battlefield, weirdly.
First off, there are lots of nice platforms to Nair under. You can do this not only on the middle platform, but on the two smaller side ones also, by jumping underneath, Nairing, and up-Bing to recover (sweetspotting the ledge, naturally). While your opponent will likely catch onto this, there isn't much they can do to answer your attacks except shield or move. If they're fast enough to edgehog you, you'll land in the water, which isn't too bad for G&W, you should be able to jump out and Up-B back to safety easy enough. I'm really not sure if this technique is entirely valid, the people I play with might just be tards or something
But it does work well for me when I play here.
That aside, the two smaller platforms, and to some extent the middle one also, are great for Dthrow -> Dsmash. Even nicer, the smaller side platforms are near the edge, meaning that your average Dsmash (providing your opponent is on the far left on the left platform, and far right on the right platform) will send your opponent off to the side, most likely to their doom. Also, like K2 said, techchasing with Dthrow on these side platforms is neat, and effective.
The cute and deadly klaptrap comes up every 10 seconds in the river, so watch the timer and make sure that you're not hanging off the ledge with no invincibility. Being in or near the water is kind of scary until you get used to playing on this level, so I recommend a bit of practice with it - I used to be VERY uncomfortable here, but once I got used to the river's mechanics (and watching for the klaptrap) I've been able to take advantage of this stage and all the things it offers G&W. Obviously, do not CHOOSE to go into the water. You may end up here more than you'd like to (I certainly do), but as Ampharos already said, jumping in the river intentionally is dumb.
I wouldn't take an extremely projectile happy opponent here, or rather, an opponent with long reaching projectiles (Falco, the Links, etc) although projectiles can be avoided decently, via going underneath the level (if you're not scared of the water). Still, it's not the easiest, or smartest, route to take.
The very high ceiling is kind of an annoyance, considering that it seriously impedes G&W's early kill potential. It does have a small silver lining - G&W will (vertically) live much longer than he's used to, lots of room for DI, lots of time for bucket braking. Take a character like Fox or Pikachu here, who relies heavily on vertical KOs. Or take a character with a crap (or at least below average!) recovery - the river will not be kind to them.
Has anyone ever though of taking Snake here? I have no idea how he is in the water, or how well he can camp here (I would imagine quite well). Still, his biggest threat is his Utilt, and because of the high ceiling here, it's not as dangerous. I've never played Snake here, but from what I just wrote down, I'd like to hear opinions/experiences about Snake on Japes.
Anyway, IMO Japes is a very viable CP, the only problem is that G&W has better CP's to choose from. There's little reason to choose Japes with it's high ceiling and deadly river over Green Greens, Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Pirate Ship (!?), all safer and overall better options for G&W. 6.5/10
First off, there are lots of nice platforms to Nair under. You can do this not only on the middle platform, but on the two smaller side ones also, by jumping underneath, Nairing, and up-Bing to recover (sweetspotting the ledge, naturally). While your opponent will likely catch onto this, there isn't much they can do to answer your attacks except shield or move. If they're fast enough to edgehog you, you'll land in the water, which isn't too bad for G&W, you should be able to jump out and Up-B back to safety easy enough. I'm really not sure if this technique is entirely valid, the people I play with might just be tards or something
But it does work well for me when I play here.That aside, the two smaller platforms, and to some extent the middle one also, are great for Dthrow -> Dsmash. Even nicer, the smaller side platforms are near the edge, meaning that your average Dsmash (providing your opponent is on the far left on the left platform, and far right on the right platform) will send your opponent off to the side, most likely to their doom. Also, like K2 said, techchasing with Dthrow on these side platforms is neat, and effective.
The cute and deadly klaptrap comes up every 10 seconds in the river, so watch the timer and make sure that you're not hanging off the ledge with no invincibility. Being in or near the water is kind of scary until you get used to playing on this level, so I recommend a bit of practice with it - I used to be VERY uncomfortable here, but once I got used to the river's mechanics (and watching for the klaptrap) I've been able to take advantage of this stage and all the things it offers G&W. Obviously, do not CHOOSE to go into the water. You may end up here more than you'd like to (I certainly do), but as Ampharos already said, jumping in the river intentionally is dumb.
I wouldn't take an extremely projectile happy opponent here, or rather, an opponent with long reaching projectiles (Falco, the Links, etc) although projectiles can be avoided decently, via going underneath the level (if you're not scared of the water). Still, it's not the easiest, or smartest, route to take.
The very high ceiling is kind of an annoyance, considering that it seriously impedes G&W's early kill potential. It does have a small silver lining - G&W will (vertically) live much longer than he's used to, lots of room for DI, lots of time for bucket braking. Take a character like Fox or Pikachu here, who relies heavily on vertical KOs. Or take a character with a crap (or at least below average!) recovery - the river will not be kind to them.
Has anyone ever though of taking Snake here? I have no idea how he is in the water, or how well he can camp here (I would imagine quite well). Still, his biggest threat is his Utilt, and because of the high ceiling here, it's not as dangerous. I've never played Snake here, but from what I just wrote down, I'd like to hear opinions/experiences about Snake on Japes.
Anyway, IMO Japes is a very viable CP, the only problem is that G&W has better CP's to choose from. There's little reason to choose Japes with it's high ceiling and deadly river over Green Greens, Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Pirate Ship (!?), all safer and overall better options for G&W. 6.5/10
slikvik
Smash Master
Godismyrock and I use this in teams. At high percent we just stay in the middle so we can bucket brake. I find myself living 200%+ or more several times when I go here wit good DI + Bucket Brake
This stage bugs me, unless the TV has a high brightness setting. I typically pick Dark Blue G&W for this stage, as he is more invisible than my normal Light Blue color.
The only problem I see with this stage is playing on the left side. Stupid water obv. Playing in the middle is safest, lots of room to Bucket Brake. BB gets stronger the larger the stage. G&W easily lives to ridiculous percents above 200.
I would personally go to Luigi's Mansion unless my opponent's character is just amazing on it. In comparison to Japes, it has wider but lower blastzones. I like that.
The only problem I see with this stage is playing on the left side. Stupid water obv. Playing in the middle is safest, lots of room to Bucket Brake. BB gets stronger the larger the stage. G&W easily lives to ridiculous percents above 200.
I would personally go to Luigi's Mansion unless my opponent's character is just amazing on it. In comparison to Japes, it has wider but lower blastzones. I like that.
slikvik
Smash Master
On this stage you have a lot of time to bucket brake. thats why i use it on teams. At high percents you camp the middle so you have a good amount of time to get it off. We play Double G&W so we're both using this startegy to outlast our opponents. Its a decent teams counterpick. I don't care for it too much in singles
The only time I would shy away from this stage is if your opponent is a falco
The only time I would shy away from this stage is if your opponent is a falco
Okay, this is a pretty good stage. It's not a "top tier!" stage for Mr. Game & Watch, but it's pretty good.
The obvious factor is Bucket Braking here. If you get to really high damage, hang out in the middle of the stage and you can live really high. If the opponent tries to camp the sides, use Chef. It's pretty effective at making you not die.
The second cool thing would be the small platforms. Dthrow is way too good on them. For most of the match, I prefer to camp a side, use Chef if they try to badger me up close from the middle platform, and abuse dthrow. Don't worry about making usmash stale when you do this; you won't be killing with it much on this stage anyway.
Speaking of the side platforms, fishbowl hits through them. Abuse this heavily. Fishbowl through the stage is way too good; it totally cripples the foe's defensive efforts. Just don't hit Snake's grenades while doing it as they will stage spike you...
I like fsmash for kills here, but unsweetspotted dsmash on the side platforms is nice. Forward aerial can work too; just remember that you need to be sending them straight to the side blastzone if you are going from the right. On that note, this stage has a general rule. If you don't want much dying to happen, stick to the right. If you want more dying to happen, stick to the left.
About the water, the survival technique is to hold right as soon as you hit the water, jump out, double jump after the peak of the jump out of the water, and then up special at the peak of the double jump. Absolutely do not mash jump or worse up special while in the water as it just makes you die when you waste recovery resources. You shouldn't be dying to the water often.
Klaptrap appears on the right side of the stage every 10 seconds when the seconds timer reads 7. Be very aware of him as he will happily snatch you off the ledge as you play around with fishbowls through the stage.
If you do play a Falco here, don't panic. If you duck in the middle of the stage, he literally can't hit you with the laser from the side platforms no matter how he short hops. If you are smart with ducking and ledge games to pressure the side platforms with judicious use of the bucket, Falco cannot camp you here. I'm not particularly convinced that this stage is so bad against Falco at all; it's not like Mr. Game & Watch's anti-Falco tools stop working here.
If you want to counterpick this, the best use would be against someone who kills mostly vertically and who wouldn't like the confines of the side platforms. I guess Luigi and Fox fit that, but that's just theory talking not experience. Another theoretical concern is that you out there who are masters of bucket braking could really consider picking up this stage in Mr. Game & Watch dittos. If your opponent is good enough to make you have to counterpick but worse than you at that one particular thing, this stage could really give you an edge. I hear a lot of people talking about counterpicking it in teams when the partner likes this stage; that's something to consider. Really though, my advice with this stage is to not really counterpick it unless your opponent has known personal problems with the stage, but definitely don't even dream about banning it. If you find yourself short on stages to work with on the stage list and aren't able to pick any of the usual suspects, this isn't a bad stage to go to. I'd rate it 7/10 overall.
The obvious factor is Bucket Braking here. If you get to really high damage, hang out in the middle of the stage and you can live really high. If the opponent tries to camp the sides, use Chef. It's pretty effective at making you not die.
The second cool thing would be the small platforms. Dthrow is way too good on them. For most of the match, I prefer to camp a side, use Chef if they try to badger me up close from the middle platform, and abuse dthrow. Don't worry about making usmash stale when you do this; you won't be killing with it much on this stage anyway.
Speaking of the side platforms, fishbowl hits through them. Abuse this heavily. Fishbowl through the stage is way too good; it totally cripples the foe's defensive efforts. Just don't hit Snake's grenades while doing it as they will stage spike you...
I like fsmash for kills here, but unsweetspotted dsmash on the side platforms is nice. Forward aerial can work too; just remember that you need to be sending them straight to the side blastzone if you are going from the right. On that note, this stage has a general rule. If you don't want much dying to happen, stick to the right. If you want more dying to happen, stick to the left.
About the water, the survival technique is to hold right as soon as you hit the water, jump out, double jump after the peak of the jump out of the water, and then up special at the peak of the double jump. Absolutely do not mash jump or worse up special while in the water as it just makes you die when you waste recovery resources. You shouldn't be dying to the water often.
Klaptrap appears on the right side of the stage every 10 seconds when the seconds timer reads 7. Be very aware of him as he will happily snatch you off the ledge as you play around with fishbowls through the stage.
If you do play a Falco here, don't panic. If you duck in the middle of the stage, he literally can't hit you with the laser from the side platforms no matter how he short hops. If you are smart with ducking and ledge games to pressure the side platforms with judicious use of the bucket, Falco cannot camp you here. I'm not particularly convinced that this stage is so bad against Falco at all; it's not like Mr. Game & Watch's anti-Falco tools stop working here.
If you want to counterpick this, the best use would be against someone who kills mostly vertically and who wouldn't like the confines of the side platforms. I guess Luigi and Fox fit that, but that's just theory talking not experience. Another theoretical concern is that you out there who are masters of bucket braking could really consider picking up this stage in Mr. Game & Watch dittos. If your opponent is good enough to make you have to counterpick but worse than you at that one particular thing, this stage could really give you an edge. I hear a lot of people talking about counterpicking it in teams when the partner likes this stage; that's something to consider. Really though, my advice with this stage is to not really counterpick it unless your opponent has known personal problems with the stage, but definitely don't even dream about banning it. If you find yourself short on stages to work with on the stage list and aren't able to pick any of the usual suspects, this isn't a bad stage to go to. I'd rate it 7/10 overall.