Pokedex Entry 18: Diddy Kong

Steeler · Jan 7, 2009

this is just how well or poorly your character can deal with bananas

that said

squirtle is at least even

charizard gets *****

i'd say ivy gets ***** as well but pants says it's not that bad for ivy. so idk. banana to bullet seed? ohhhhhhh god yes.

Charizard92 · Jan 7, 2009

On Charizard: Well, let's see, Diddy is tiny, fast, projectile user, potential juggler, and recovery is hard to gimp is used properly... OF COURSE CHARIZARD GET'S BEATEN SILLY, JUST GETTING PAST THE BANANA IS A PROBLEM!

Le_THieN · Jan 7, 2009

Chuck Nasty and I go even.

I ****ing hate Squirtle.

Steeler · Jan 7, 2009

tellin you man, it's all squirtle baby.

Magik0722 · Jan 7, 2009

Yes i agree, Learn how to use squirtles Glide toss in tandem with all his other techniques to bring this more to an even matchup for squirtle. Dont use charizard, it helps out if you play diddy to learn the matchup so you can learn all those neat tricks you can do with the nanaers

Adriel · Jan 7, 2009

Holding a single banana and only using B moves with Ivysaur and Charizard is a good idea.

typh · Jan 7, 2009

Adriel said:
Holding a single banana and only using B moves with Ivysaur and Charizard is a good idea.

hahaha this

don't try to use the bananas against diddy he'll just recatch them and use them again xfd

Steeler · Jan 7, 2009

lol AD

if you've worked on your banana skills as much as diddys have, then i think squirtle should be using the bananas against him. squirtle actually does better **** from banana tosses than diddy does. stronger smashes, dthrow, jab ****...

CHOMPY · Jan 7, 2009

Diddy gets gimped easily by Charizard if your not careful. Charizard is a heavy character that can last a long time though he gets comboed and spiked real easily. Unless you use the Up B move for the heavy armor technique. Diddy has to watch out for Charizards Fair and Dair once hes off the stage. Charizard actually runs pretty quick so its not like hes a heavy character that moves really slow and his grab range is long but dont bother trying to use the dash attack to grab the bananas since Charizards dash attack range is low. Most likly he will slip on the bananas unless your real close to them. Diddy Kongs aerials are kind of slow so you should be able to Rock Smash Diddy easily since that move outprioritze Diddy's aerials. Peanuts are very annoying I know so try to use the flamethrower to burn out the peanuts, too bad it doesnt cancel the bananas =(.

I would say 40-60 Chance in Diddy Kongs favor

Bomber7 · Jan 7, 2009

what? no roasted peanuts? thats bogus, but yeah, seeing as how scary ditty is I'd definatly give him a 60-40

Steeler · Jan 7, 2009

oh yeah chompy plays both.

love it when that happens.

zard 40/60 diddy sounds right to me.

Nitrix · Jan 7, 2009

I main Diddy, and Squirtle can actually be really annoying in this match. Squirtle is fast, and can actually compete for the bananas. He can be gimped, but he is still fairly annoying.

If you want to do decently in this matchup, play Diddy for a bit and then switch back to PT. Learning how to use the bananas firsthand does a world of good.

Retro Gaming · Jan 7, 2009

Charizard has a lot of good things against Diddy, in my opinion. Every time I play Diddy I feel like Diddy is severely limited in kill moves and I almost always die from Fsmash, Dsmash, and to a lesser extent Bair or Uair. Utilt can be a situational kill move if Diddy keeps it fresh, but only at higher percentages. (Maybe 150% on Charizard on Final Destination?) A lot of these moves take a long time to kill Charizard unless he's at higher percentages, but lots of time they're looking for Smash set-ups at the edge to remove this problem.

One big thing I like about Diddy is the fact that he's got a slow horizontal aerial speed. This makes him relatively easy to grab, in my opinion. This I feel is a big plus for Charizard.

Charizard also beats Diddy on the ground for range.

By now you probably think I'm totally wrong because I haven't mentioned the bananas yet. But these are critical so they need to be discussed alone.

I don't think that Charizard has any advantage over Diddy. While Charizard does have some useful tools versus Diddy, Diddy's got bananas that completely change Charizard's game. I think these are one of the biggest problems for Charizard because they control space, regardless if Diddy is there or not. And never throw bananas backward as Charizard, the animation just takes way too long.

What I think can be even more frustrating than bananas though is Monkey Flip. It's not even the actual flip, its the optional kick attack that you can activate out of it. This move is a huge pain. It has a ridiculous amount of priority (This clanks with Flamethrower) and takes a nice chunk out of shields. If Diddy doesn't activate it then I think that Monkey Flip just activates as a grab hitbox, which basically makes it so you can't shield this move. You're best option is just to run in the same direction as the kick and avoid it, then maybe Rock Smash him in the lag. I really hate this move.

Dsmash has some ridiculous range and is really deceptive. If Diddy's close to you and slaps you with a banana then you're probably going to be killed by this (if you're at that percentage).

Mattmiston · Jan 7, 2009

one of my best smash friends mains pkmn trainer, and honestly... i think his charizard gives me the most trouble. either his charizard or his squirtle.

ivysaur, imo, is simply not good against diddy - doesn't have the speed or the right moves to go up against diddy. however, squirtle is fast enough to cope with diddy, and has enough "combos" to deal with him. a good squirtle can easily give diddy trouble, but there's no real squirtle moves that are particularly good against diddy.

i feel that charizard, however, can play well against a diddy. rock throw and fire breath (i don't know the exact pokemon move name, sorry) work very well against aggressive diddy's. i've gotten 0-60+ed by a fire breath just because i was playing an aggressive banana throwing diddy. rock throw is great for eating through many of diddy's approaches, so yeah, i'd suggest a defensive, smart charizard against a diddy.

just like any diddy matchup, once you gain banana control, or get them out of the picture (which is not exactly an easy task), the matchup becomes MUCH easier.

Magik0722 · Jan 7, 2009

I play diddy as well so it really helpful with the glide tossing part, but it seems the timing is a bit different

Miles. · Jan 7, 2009

Charizard can just jump from one edge to the other on levels like Smashville and battel field and yoshis

his three jumps help him not have to rely on a ground game so much.

he is at a disadvantage but its not unwinable or to huge of disadvantage.

diddy isnt that hard for zard to KO.

its hard for diddy to ko zard.

Syrus_Draco · Jan 8, 2009

Withdraw~

Use it sparingly with Squirtle and know when you want to speed up or slow down. Don't rely on it too much, but it's a nice way to get past the bananas and get into the position you want.

Can't say much for Ivy or Zard though ;\ Throw them bananas off the stage.

SuorGenoveffa · Jan 8, 2009

I played a good Diddy in tourney last sunday (he won the tournament, but I think he also used Snake for that) and I definitely have noticed a couple of things about this match up. Here are my 2 cents:

Squirtle is definitely the best against Diddy, I'd say it's easily even. Squirtle can keep the game in the air, and Diddy doesn't like it. Squirtle also has the best time approaching Diddy Kong due to his speed and good aerial mobility, not to mention quick moves. You'd definitely like to use Squirtle as much as you can in this match because Charizard and especially Ivysaur have a lot more trouble keeping up with Diddy's bananas.

Ivysaur relies too much on his ground game, and despite having good range and a projectile, it's definitely not fun how easy it is for Diddy to **** him as soon as he gets to him. Diddy can punish Ivysaur for even trying to approach him. I honestly don't even know if it's best to stay away from him and spam like hell or try to get to him.

Charizard has a hard time against Diddy too if he gets caught in his banana tricks, what makes him better than Ivysaur is that he can "avoid" Diddy a little easier and racks up damage/kills better. Still, as someone suggested, he has to be very defensive and a slight mistake could be fatal.

I agree on the 60-40 for Diddy, individually being 50-50 Squirtle, 30-70 Ivysaur and 40-60 Charizard.

Onxy · Jan 8, 2009

SuorGenoveffa said:
I played a good Diddy in tourney last sunday (he won the tournament, but I think he also used Snake for that) and I definitely have noticed a couple of things about this match up. Here are my 2 cents:

Squirtle is definitely the best against Diddy, I'd say it's easily even. Squirtle can keep the game in the air, and Diddy doesn't like it. Squirtle also has the best time approaching Diddy Kong due to his speed and good aerial mobility, not to mention quick moves. You'd definitely like to use Squirtle as much as you can in this match because Charizard and especially Ivysaur have a lot more trouble keeping up with Diddy's bananas.

Ivysaur relies too much on his ground game, and despite having good range and a projectile, it's definitely not fun how easy it is for Diddy to **** him as soon as he gets to him. Diddy can punish Ivysaur for even trying to approach him. I honestly don't even know if it's best to stay away from him and spam like hell or try to get to him. *In Lex Luthor's voice* WRONG!

Charizard has a hard time against Diddy too if he gets caught in his banana tricks, what makes him better than Ivysaur is that he can "avoid" Diddy a little easier and racks up damage/kills better. Still, as someone suggested, he has to be very defensive and a slight mistake could be fatal.

I agree on the 60-40 for Diddy, individually being 50-50 Squirtle, 30-70 Ivysaur and 40-60 Charizard.

Ivysaur doesn't rely on her ground game at all. Her strongest points are in the air.

Syrus_Draco · Jan 8, 2009

Diddy's Air game is equal to Squirtle's air game, so you can't say Squirtle is safe in keeping everything in the air as Diddy will adpat to that as well. Squirtle can put on a few things on Diddy but for the most part the two pretty square even almost.

ADHD · Jan 8, 2009

This matchup is probably the rarest matchup in smash history. squirtle, might possibly have an advantage over diddy though.

Steeler · Jan 8, 2009

i disagree with chrome. pokemon trainer versus pokemon trainer in tournament. that **** is rare.

also squirtle's air speed >>> diddy's, so yes, squirtle does have a slight edge there. otherwise the two are fairly similar.

Charizard92 · Jan 8, 2009

Actually, even, Squirtle doesn't have a projectile.

Steeler · Jan 8, 2009

he does when he catches a banana

Syrus_Draco · Jan 8, 2009

Squirtle's all about catching bananas in his mouth.

SuorGenoveffa · Jan 8, 2009

Onxy said:
Ivysaur doesn't rely on her ground game at all. Her strongest points are in the air.

I suppose I didn't explain my point well and pulled the definition out of nowhere, sorry about that. I was trying to say something else: you would say its (sorry, the "her" sounds weird to me, My Ivyz00r has a very manly pokemanz voice

) best moves are its aerials, but what I meant was: Ivysaur is not exactly an aerial fighter (Squirtle is, he has the air speed and quick aerials that allow him to be a better aerial fighter). In my experience, to keep up with Diddy, I found you needed those two (air speed and quick aerials) more than long-ranged aerials; also, Ivy's more bound to the ground for obvious reasons. Now, bair is a great move to have, range-wise and as a set up, but doesn't make up for the intense damage-racking abilities of Diddy. I don't think you can keep Diddy away the whole match dealing 2-4% damage per hit. Nair, on the other hand, is probably more effective as an offensive approach but more risky.

I think Ivy's best bet is probably trying to get control of/get away bananas and using bair's range to avoid falling into Diddy's traps. I'm curious to know what the Diddys think about this match-up though, it's the one I need to know the most. I also think Razor Leaf is quite important for Ivysaur's defensive purposes here, but I might be playing it wrong.

God I was probably on crack about the ground game thing, it's more a complex of seeing Ivysaur on four legs or something but I myself play the aerials more than the rest obviously. If I got anything else wrong about the match-up though, please tell me, I'm here to learn after all so corrections are appreciated.

Diddy's Air game is equal to Squirtle's air game, so you can't say Squirtle is safe in keeping everything in the air as Diddy will adpat to that as well. Squirtle can put on a few things on Diddy but for the most part the two pretty square even almost.

As Steeler said, Squirtle's advantage in the air against Diddy is air speed: Squirtle will probably outspeed Diddy in the air more than the opposite. Also, never mentioned safety, nothing is really totally safe. It IS the safest way to face Diddy though.

Onxy · Jan 9, 2009

Ivysaur is supposed to be in the air for at least half of the game. All of her aerials are awesome. Her Bair and Fair are great approaches while spamming Razorleaf, and her bair, fair, and nair are her best attacking options while in the air. Ivysaur is not ground prone. If you stay on the ground for most of the game, your chances of failure are dramatically increased. What are the obvious reasons why Ivy does not belong in the air? Because her aerial speed is bad?

Miles. · Jan 9, 2009

Squirtle has advantage.

Zard disadvantage.

Ivy is also disadvantage.

SuorGenoveffa · Jan 9, 2009

Onxy said:
Ivysaur is supposed to be in the air for at least half of the game. All of her aerials are awesome. Her Bair and Fair are great approaches while spamming Razorleaf, and her bair, fair, and nair are her best attacking options while in the air. Ivysaur is not ground prone. If you stay on the ground for most of the game, your chances of failure are dramatically increased. What are the obvious reasons why Ivy does not belong in the air? Because her aerial speed is bad?

Ivysaur's more ground prone THAN Squirtle (have mercy, it was 3.22 in the night) and I was just trying to say why I think Ivysaur is definitely not as adequate against Diddy. It was all about facing Diddy Kong, not Ivysaur's general game, I know Ivy's aerials are awesome, I just don't find them to be as effective as they usually are against Diddy because in this fight Squirtle's mobility plays a big role and Ivysaur's aerials, despite having long range, are by far more risky (bair is probably its safest move in this fight).

I suppose the fight is somewhere around 65/60 Diddy adv then?

As far as Squirtle goes, I don't think he really has a solid advantage, but 55/45 Squirtle might be okay too.

Has anyone called the Diddys yet?

PkTrainerCris · Jan 9, 2009

Ivysaur is more to the ground...
Her walking and running speed are ok, her air speed is bad... she has good range on bith air and ground, but she racks more damage on the ground, ( bair is very safe, but also is a good spaced dtilt)
To the matchup... squirtle is pretty good, i can see it 55-45 or 60-40 at the best, he has crazy glidetoss, and does pretty well in the air
ivysaur is at a disadvantage, thats clear
Charizard is pretty hard to kill for diddy, he does pretty good at stolck tanking, a defensive charizard may be 45-55 at best against diddy

typh · Jan 9, 2009

alright i think the consensus is

70:30 PT:diddy kong
35:65 PT:bananas

Steeler · Jan 9, 2009

if you can somehow avoid the banana kill setups, zard stock tanks pretty nicely. it's still a disadvantage overall.

typh has it

Charizard92 · Jan 9, 2009

Typh said:
alright i think the consensus is

70:30 PT:diddy kong
35:65 PT:bananas

That made me laugh. So without Bananas, Diddy is toast. PT isn't fighting the monkey, he's fighting the bananas!

CHOMPY · Jan 9, 2009

Ivysaur has alot of range in the air and she can also glidetoss backwards really far but cant glidetoss foward, which is really odd. Oh and Ivysaur can easily gimp Diddy Kong if Diddy Kong tries to get back on the stage by using the instant tether. The same way as Toon Link or Link edgeguarding a character with a simple hookshot. Even though Diddy runs really fast and Ivysaur moves kind of slow, you can still stop Diddy dead in its tracks by using your tilts mainly the Dtilt since it comes out faster and has more range but you need to watch out for those bananas. Ivysaur can catch them in the air easily by air dodging and Diddy Kong would pretty much be screwed. Dont spam the razor leafs too much because then Diddy will use the rocket barrels so the barrels fly out when the razor leafs hit the barrels. But still play defensivfly with caution though.

35:65 in Diddy Kong's favor if a Diddy Kong player were to face an experienced player that knows how to use Ivysaur to its fullest.

Retro Gaming · Jan 9, 2009

Ivysaur can glidetoss any-way it wants?

That reminds me, Diddy spikes Ivysaur to death with Barrels at around 0%.

Miles. · Jan 9, 2009

ivys poor manuverability is what kills him in this match.

not to mentions peanut, banana, barrel, side b, and dair gimps.

Steeler · Jan 12, 2009

so what do you guys think?

both zard and ivy at 40/60?

squirtle neutral or advantage?

Retro Gaming · Jan 12, 2009

I think Squirtle is significantly better than Diddy in the air. Your aerial movement is a lot faster and unlike Kirby, I don't usually trade hits, I beat him out. I don't know if this is because Diddy's priority is low or if his aerial attack speed is less than Squirtle. Both have similar range.

Something that got me a lot when I first started playing the match-up was Diddy's Dair. I always felt that it was slower than it seemed, and its speed really took me by surprise. I don't really get Dair spiked as much anymore, though.

On the ground, Diddy's got really stupid options. Dtilt is annoying, Ftilt is annoying, but Dsmash is extremely annoying. Monkey Flip (Kick) is the most annoying of all of these, but IIRC you can predict it and Dair him. Diddy also has a pretty easy recovery to gimp, especially if you can stage spike on Final Destination or Yoshi's Island. You do have to watch out for if he uses Monkey Flip while recovering, because he can throw you down and its basically equivalent to a footstool or a spike. If he misses that though he's forced to barrel and you can just Fair or Bair him into or away from the stage.

I think Squirtle has a 55:45 advantage. I could possibly maybe see a 60:40 advantage, but in my opinion its nothing notable.

I pick Norfair versus Diddy.

PkTrainerCris · Jan 12, 2009

I agree with retro... i also like PS1 and battlefield against diddy, but idk why

Magik0722 · Jan 14, 2009

For this thread i had some games with a diddy, not realy the best diddy, or our best match, but it was the only one that was under 3 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqPJzlKRdtI&feature=channel_page

Pokedex Entry 18: Diddy Kong

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