Item-Throw-cancelled-Airdodge Momentum-Cancelling

This isn't technically a new discovery, but I haven't heard anyone put the pieces together.

The pieces:

1. Airdodges can be used to escape hitstun earlier than aerials, item-throws, or Zairs.
   [Video proof]
   
   Credit to 56k for the discovery, afaik.
   
   Brawl makes some distinction between "weak hits" and "strong hits", yielding two kinds of hitstun,
   as evidenced by [mughump's dissertation about HUARGH and WHARRGARBL states] (a fantastic read, btw).
   
   Oops I was wrong, leafgreen386 clarifies the difference:
   

   leafgreen386 said:

   Weak hits do not cause you to enter the tumble, cannot be DIed (except for SDI), and cannot have their hitstun canceled. Strong hits cause you to enter the tumble after the full hitstun ends, can be DIed, and can have their hitstun canceled by an attack or airdodge.

   Click to expand...

   So in particular, you need to get hit by a "strong hit" to be able to aerial earlier, and airdodge even earlier; note that it can be a "strong hit" even if it has surprisingly low knockback.
   
   
2. The first few frames of an airdodge can be cancelled by an item-throw. You can also use a Zair directly from an airdodge.
   
   I learned about this from Vyse's lolsome [Item Throw Cancelled, Airdodge Cancelled Charge] AT (and corresponding [amazing video]).

I see two novel consequences of this:

1. Juggle Retaliation
   This was basically pointed out to me by Steel2nd in the Smash Lab. If you're being juggled or trapped by a low-knockback move, if it's a "strong hit" you can airdodge early. But why settle for that? If you can airdodge then you can also be retaliating with an item-throw or Zair, or even both if you have them! So when Marth Fthrows a Diddy at low percent, he should be able to airdodge-cancel item-throw a banana back at Marth's face! Some of these retaliations may even be inescapable (some throws have bad ending lag), so this could definitely use some exploration.
   
   
2. Improved "Momentum-Cancelling"
   Momentum-cancelling is a dumb term that's been used for ways to counteract knockback, ex. by cancelling hitstun with a fastfalled aerial, then using a Jump or momentum-changing Special towards the stage to avoid the killzone. If you've heard of [G&W's bucket braking] or seen this video:
   [G&W Bucket Braking + moar!]
   
   At 2:25, G&W is hit on the largest possible custom stage by a DK Fsmash at 195%. He survives by escaping hitstun with a banana-throw, then bucket-braking. However, if he airdodges to escape hitstun even earlier and cancels the airdodge with the banana-throw, he can survive as high as 225% and maybe higher! Bucket-braking just got even better!
   
   Every character can do this; I'm pretty sure that if you're holding an item, it is always optimal to cancel hitstun with an itemthrow-cancelled airdodge, as this will quickly put you back in control of your character. But if you don't have an item, you're probably better off using your fastest aerial instead of the airdodge, since airdodges are usually quite a bit slower. (Wario is at least one sometimes-exception.)
   
   If there are any Zairs that finish faster than an airdodge, then they would be preferable.... but I don't think any exist.

I hope this helps! Of course it's not common for many characters to get hit while they have an item in their hands, but I'm sure it will come in handy every now and then.

Wow. Great job piecing together the techniques.
Seems useful for diddy or peach or such.

Airdodging would be pointless, you may as well just throw the item to escape hitstun.....exact same thing?

Niko_K said:

Airdodging would be pointless, you may as well just throw the item to escape hitstun.....exact same thing?

Click to expand...

What I got from this, if I interpreted correctly, is that:
1. you can airdodge before you can do an aerial or throw an item

Airdodges can be used to escape hitstun earlier than aerials, item-throws, or Zairs.

Click to expand...

2. you can throw items at the very beginning of an airdodge

The first few frames of an airdodge can be cancelled by an item-throw.

Click to expand...

3. airdodge->item throw would start, and end, sooner than an airdodge or item throw by itself.

However, if he airdodges to escape hitstun even earlier and cancels the airdodge with the banana-throw, he can survive as high as 225% and maybe higher!

Click to expand...

I could be wrong though :O

edit: I went back to read and put those quotes in after writing this...so yeah, I think I got it right.

Yup, that's right. Airdodge > item-throw happens earlier than just an item-throw. That's what's new.