DreamScythe
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 12
For those unfamiliar with me, I'm the guy who brought the IC boards this thread of new techniques http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169427, which you might want to read first, as I might make mention of SND here.
SH Double Bair
Anyways, I kinda discovered that ICs can SH double bair legitamately like toon link or DK. However, the timing for this is VERY strict, as you have to input the bair the exact frame you leave the ground or buffer it in their VERY quick jump animation. In fact, the only way I have been able to do SH double bair with the ICs with any regularity is by setting jump to one of the shoulder buttons, even then it's really difficult. It doesn't seem to be as good as DK's or toon link's, as the range is pretty short and the trajectory isn't really ideal, but you can throw out bairs at an incredible rate, especially with IC's quick jumping animation and the bair's short landing lag. You can almost space and zone with it, which the ICs normally can't otherwise, so this is a big improvement
Uair, nair, and even dair* can also be done after the first bair if your interested.
*This must be done with the control stick + A, not the C-stick, and remember to press down before they descend
5-Frame Fsmash
In my thread I mentioned earlier, I talked about the Reverse Fsmash trap, and I have been frame counting recently, and I remembered that you don't need to go through the entire double jab attack, that by simply tapping A you can get a quick single jab by popo followed by nana doing an Fsmash. This is all I estimated by guessing/frame counting this attack.
Popo's jab comes out on frame 4 + 1 for the pivot = frame 5
Nana's Fsmash comes out on frame 11 + 1 frame for pivot + 6 frames for nana's delay = frame 18
Now if the jab connects, so will the Fsmash, with rare exceptions where the opponent is at the very edge of the jab's hitbox. Now, I don't need to tell you how nice it is to essentially have an Fsmash that hits on frame 5, but now the real question is this attack safe on block?
Unfotuanately, I can't gather exact frame data for the IC myself, so I'm going to make assumptions and use niko_K's Peach frame data, but I assure you the actual result won't be drastically different.
I'll be using Peach's 1st jab and golf club Fsmash as IC's 1st jab and Fsmashes analog which I think is reasonable.
Popo's jab hits on frame 5 and should do 6 frames of shieldhit lag and 5 frames of shieldhit stun
This gives the opponent exactly 2 frames to respond for Nana's Fsmash hits them, which isn't enough to even roll from the Fsmash, much less shield grab
18-5-6-5=2
So essentially, if the jab hits, the fsmash will land as well unless they spotdodge(which I will explain is a bad idea soon) or the opponent is Marth and the UpB OoS.
Now when the Fsmash lands, it should give 11 frames of shieldhit lag and 15 frames of shieldhit stun, this gives popo 34 frames to either finish up with the second jab or have the first jab end and popo do shomething else, which from a cursory glance is PLENTY of time.
5 frame shieldhit stun of jab + 2 frames + 1 frame of fsmash landing + 11 shieldhit lag of fsmash + 15 shieldhit stun of fsmash
5+2+1+11+15=34
In fact, popo might have enough time to grab the opponent while they are in shieldhit stun or before they can drop their shield. If they spotdodge the Fsmash, then popo can use his 2nd jab before the opponent can recover from his spotdodge. For being so good framewise, it unfortunately can be only done when you are facing away from the opponent, and you still have to land the jab, which is pretty short range. Still, IT'S AN FSMASH THAT IS SAFE ON BLOCK THAT HITS ON FRAME 5!!!!
I would also like to say that the IC's Usmash OoS is fairly useful, as its their fastest attack that hits around them and behind, and even has slightly more range than their shieldgrab.
Go ahead and fire away any questions about these techniques or even the techniques posted on my other thread.
SH Double Bair
Anyways, I kinda discovered that ICs can SH double bair legitamately like toon link or DK. However, the timing for this is VERY strict, as you have to input the bair the exact frame you leave the ground or buffer it in their VERY quick jump animation. In fact, the only way I have been able to do SH double bair with the ICs with any regularity is by setting jump to one of the shoulder buttons, even then it's really difficult. It doesn't seem to be as good as DK's or toon link's, as the range is pretty short and the trajectory isn't really ideal, but you can throw out bairs at an incredible rate, especially with IC's quick jumping animation and the bair's short landing lag. You can almost space and zone with it, which the ICs normally can't otherwise, so this is a big improvement
Uair, nair, and even dair* can also be done after the first bair if your interested.
*This must be done with the control stick + A, not the C-stick, and remember to press down before they descend
5-Frame Fsmash
In my thread I mentioned earlier, I talked about the Reverse Fsmash trap, and I have been frame counting recently, and I remembered that you don't need to go through the entire double jab attack, that by simply tapping A you can get a quick single jab by popo followed by nana doing an Fsmash. This is all I estimated by guessing/frame counting this attack.
Popo's jab comes out on frame 4 + 1 for the pivot = frame 5
Nana's Fsmash comes out on frame 11 + 1 frame for pivot + 6 frames for nana's delay = frame 18
Now if the jab connects, so will the Fsmash, with rare exceptions where the opponent is at the very edge of the jab's hitbox. Now, I don't need to tell you how nice it is to essentially have an Fsmash that hits on frame 5, but now the real question is this attack safe on block?
Unfotuanately, I can't gather exact frame data for the IC myself, so I'm going to make assumptions and use niko_K's Peach frame data, but I assure you the actual result won't be drastically different.
I'll be using Peach's 1st jab and golf club Fsmash as IC's 1st jab and Fsmashes analog which I think is reasonable.
Popo's jab hits on frame 5 and should do 6 frames of shieldhit lag and 5 frames of shieldhit stun
This gives the opponent exactly 2 frames to respond for Nana's Fsmash hits them, which isn't enough to even roll from the Fsmash, much less shield grab
18-5-6-5=2
So essentially, if the jab hits, the fsmash will land as well unless they spotdodge(which I will explain is a bad idea soon) or the opponent is Marth and the UpB OoS.
Now when the Fsmash lands, it should give 11 frames of shieldhit lag and 15 frames of shieldhit stun, this gives popo 34 frames to either finish up with the second jab or have the first jab end and popo do shomething else, which from a cursory glance is PLENTY of time.
5 frame shieldhit stun of jab + 2 frames + 1 frame of fsmash landing + 11 shieldhit lag of fsmash + 15 shieldhit stun of fsmash
5+2+1+11+15=34
In fact, popo might have enough time to grab the opponent while they are in shieldhit stun or before they can drop their shield. If they spotdodge the Fsmash, then popo can use his 2nd jab before the opponent can recover from his spotdodge. For being so good framewise, it unfortunately can be only done when you are facing away from the opponent, and you still have to land the jab, which is pretty short range. Still, IT'S AN FSMASH THAT IS SAFE ON BLOCK THAT HITS ON FRAME 5!!!!
I would also like to say that the IC's Usmash OoS is fairly useful, as its their fastest attack that hits around them and behind, and even has slightly more range than their shieldgrab.
Go ahead and fire away any questions about these techniques or even the techniques posted on my other thread.