Starting to play brawl again - Picking up Ike

suuuuuuuuuup

i haven't played brawl in a really long time but i'm coming back with meta sheik ike and probably somebody else - i like ike quite a bit so i'll probably use him the most for now

i know him on a fairly basic level and i know some general strats to use but uhh... guess i'll throw some questions out there

i heard something about ike having an infinite on certain stages what's that about LOL

does ike have a ______ lock? like after you knock them down is there anything he can do to just drag them accross the stage in horribly boring fassion?

how do you tend to land grabs with ike vs characters that have a good amount of range and manueverability? eg like a back air campy wolf or something? also is there any sort of real extreme advantage to any of the throws over the others? it seems pretty situational to me.

how do you tend to do uhh ANYTHING vs actual good aggressive metas that you cant say "punish his mistakes" against? i do alright here - but anything extra helps

ike's down tilt perplexes me - i can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this? should i even EVER use this?

Ike seems to be at his best when his opponent isn't laying down heavy pressure - what's probably the best way to deal with said pressure? obv jabs oos and fading fairs are alright - anything else I should know?

how do you tend to recover against good players

i love moving around with forward b for some reason. this isn't a question i'm just saying.

also give me some random tips lol

this topic is basically an exact copy of the topics i made on the mario and link forums ages ago in the melee character discussion threads

ike is tight.

oh one last question - this one is probably the most important

i like white costumes - for example white metaknight looks kinda like a holy warrior - he looks like he's fighting the good fight. what costume to you is the most "regal" looking costume for ike - the one that you think makes him look like he's really going out and fighting for hte right side?

i heard something about ike having an infinite on certain stages what's that about LOL
Every stage that has a wall basically gives him an infinite. Just grab and forward throw them 'till you think they've suffered enough

does ike have a ______ lock? like after you knock them down is there anything he can do to just drag them accross the stage in horribly boring fassion?
No unfortunatly, he can _____ predict when the opponent is above him on a platform with his upsmash and Uair thanks to there huge vertical and mostly horizontal range.

how do you tend to land grabs with ike vs characters that have a good amount of range and manueverability? eg like a back air campy wolf or something? also is there any sort of real extreme advantage to any of the throws over the others? it seems pretty situational to me.
Via the jabs, jab - > grab is an often used tactic with Ike. Throws are just to build damage, no reall combo's. You can try downthrow to Uair sometimes if you predict the DI.
Just use F/Bthrow to get them off the stage, and use Groundgrabrelease to more jabs or Ftilt (or Fsmash if you predict a roll). We have a grab release thread here :
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201243&highlight=Grab+Releases

how do you tend to do uhh ANYTHING vs actual good aggressive metas that you cant say "punish his mistakes" against? i do alright here - but anything extra helps
Abuse your range and make sure you never have to recover xD make sure you never make a mistake and really abuse your huge range on your Fair and Ftilt. Fsmash ***** the 'nado when predicted well I think.


ike's down tilt perplexes me - i can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this? should i even EVER use this?
Not that good a move, but nice to catch people of guard during a jab (to shieldstab) and/ or spike them.


Ike seems to be at his best when his opponent isn't laying down heavy pressure - what's probably the best way to deal with said pressure? obv jabs oos and fading fairs are alright - anything else I should know?
Go on the offensive yourself, atleast that is what I do. Ike is very pressure related, try and keep the pressure up yourself and don't get pushed in a corner.

Nair is a great tool to get them out of your face since it hits in an almost 360 arc and autocancels.

how do you tend to recover against good players
When shot away horizontally use airdodge, when vertically use Dair + fastfall.
To recover, DI up and towards the stage and use airdodge when necessary. Use Aether it usually outclasses quickdraw (sideB) in everyway.

i love moving around with forward b for some reason. this isn't a question i'm just saying.
It can be handy to tech chase, but don't overuse it;p

also give me some random tips lol
Jab alot
Space alot with Fair
Run-off Fair/ Dair ***** a lot of people when caught of guard
You can Aethercide certain recoveries with insane ease. Just hang on the edge, and aether them when they get close. If done right you should grab the edge and they'll plummel to their doom.
Watch some video's from these players:
http://www.youtube.com/user/kdr4485
http://www.youtube.com/user/Rykoshet

both are good ike users with high level of play, you should be able to figure out some stuff for yourself by those video's ^^

ike is tight.
That's why we use him <3



i like white costumes - for example white metaknight looks kinda like a holy warrior - he looks like he's fighting the good fight. what costume to you is the most "regal" looking costume for ike - the one that you think makes him look like he's really going out and fighting for hte right side?

Either the white/blue one, lightblue'ish w/e. Or the Soldier outfit (beige with green and a red cape). That's about it ;p

Good luck and keep us posted^^



EDIT: Why did you decide to go back to brawl again? Thought you were back to Melee mostly.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VBEqjsDyBck&feature=channel_page

That's Silven's combo video, I suggest watching it if you haven't already. It should answer a few of your questions, such as the infinite.

Gold costume is most bad a**, IMO.

Oh, and random tips, CP Pirate Ship. Water Spike FTW, and you can do his infinite when the ship hits the rock.

Answer to all your questions:

use Ganondorf.

(:

Cambriel said:

I lol'ed.

We need to be serious guys.

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i wus ttly srs

Also, when recovering with Aether, try to reverse it. Helps to stop your opponent from edgehogging, and if you're properly spaced you can actually drag your opponent off the stage into a spike.

Just some other stuff. Ike has 4 spikes. Dair, Eruption at the very tip, Aether, and Dtilt. Thats really tthe only time to use dtilt. You can also use it to poke under an opponents shield.

Cool. I totally thouht you were kidding when I saw the title. Welcome aboard, Gimpy!! Anyway, your questions.

F-throw does have an infinite against a wall. In my experience (which isn't much w/ walled stages), It's a little hard to space. I usually have to jab them to the right spot.

Sorry, Gimpy. There's no real lock to speak of, mainly because Ike can't really set them up. However, maybe if someone combat walked a person that missed a tech...Not much thought has been put into this, so I reccomend you experiment.

Overall, grabs are really situational. It seems like we have to spam Pivot grabs and shield grabs because of our T-rex arms. D-Throw can kill, but at like a really really high percentage. I really want to say U-Throw is useless, but it has the potential to read how a person DI's.

I assume you've read out matchup thread about Meta. It's not much, but it does cover a few good points. Retreating Fair is my bread and butter in this matchup. Just make sure you hit with the tip. Jab is 3 frames, so I attempt to bait a whiffed attack and squeeze it in there.

I use the Dtilt for gimping. I'm working on the timing to use it as a spike. Otherwise, I never use it. Just what Royta said.

Royta pretty much covered the issue with pressure.

Same thing with recovery, however you can still catch people off guard w/ QD.

I wish I could spam QD more as a spacing tool. It's also funny to build up the move so much that it kills.

My only tip is Counter-Draw is fun, but useless.

The most regal costume I would assume is Gold. Gold is a rather regal color and not too many people use it. I just use the ordinary soldier because it has more of a gritty feel.

i heard something about ike having an infinite on certain stages what's that about LOL

On Corneria (or any stages with walls but Corneria is the only one legal I think) Ike can wall chaingrab them with f-throw up to different %s for different characters.

does ike have a ______ lock? like after you knock them down is there anything he can do to just drag them accross the stage in horribly boring fassion?

No but Ike has the combat walk which isn't quite a jab lock but can still work.

how do you tend to land grabs with ike vs characters that have a good amount of range and manueverability? eg like a back air campy wolf or something? also is there any sort of real extreme advantage to any of the throws over the others? it seems pretty situational to me.

I just try to get them in my range and try to grab them. All of Ike's grab are mediocre but he can follow after a grab with something against certain chars. You can read it here. (It's the second post)

ike's down tilt perplexes me - i can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this? should i even EVER use this?

Your best time to use d-tilt is to spike. Hitting your opponent with the sword lands the spike but getting hit by the hilt results in being sent diagnally forward.

Ike seems to be at his best when his opponent isn't laying down heavy pressure - what's probably the best way to deal with said pressure? obv jabs oos and fading fairs are alright - anything else I should know?

If you see an opening, go for it. Don't use you slow moves to stop it, try Ike's fast moves. Don't fall into your opponents mindgames. That's all I can thin of.

how do you tend to recover against good players

DI as best as I can toward the stage and Aether. You can also read this to learn how to recover better.

also give me some random tips lol

Read some of our guides to get better.

i like white costumes - for example white metaknight looks kinda like a holy warrior - he looks like he's fighting the good fight. what costume to you is the most "regal" looking costume for ike - the one that you think makes him look like he's really going out and fighting for hte right side?

Tan is the closest color I can recommend. It's an ordinary soldier color in Griel's army and he's the good guy so pick tan.

i heard something about ike having an infinite on certain stages what's that about LOL : Basically, if there is a wall, Ike can FThrow people repeatedly into the wall. You can also BThrow them into the wall, then run up to them and start infiniting.

does ike have a ______ lock? like after you knock them down is there anything he can do to just drag them accross the stage in horribly boring fassion? : No, but as others have said before, he has what is known as Combat Walking; if you hold A to perform the full jab combo but the opponent DIs such that the second hit misses, then Ike will reset the combo but take a step forward. Renegade uses it a lot in his montage.

how do you tend to land grabs with ike vs characters that have a good amount of range and manueverability? eg like a back air campy wolf or something? also is there any sort of real extreme advantage to any of the throws over the others? it seems pretty situational to me. : In general, you'll want to jab -> grab; Ike's grab range is too short to rely on by it's own (I think it's among the worst grab ranges in the game). Whether you want to get your opponent above you or behind/ in front of you is personal preference; if you want them above you however, DThrow is generally better than UThrow - it's less laggy and has higher knockback. If you want to get your opponent with Dash Attack, BThrow -> Dash Attack (C-sticked) is a better option than FThrow; BThrow has more IASA frames.

how do you tend to do uhh ANYTHING vs actual good aggressive metas that you cant say "punish his mistakes" against? i do alright here - but anything extra helps : MK will get outranged by FAir if they approach from the air, so they'll want to rely on his ground game; if you read a Dash Attack, you can punish with BAir out of shield (which is a great defense option in general). Aether out of shield can punish grounded Shuttle Loops, as well as BAir out of shield (if your back is to the MK).

ike's down tilt perplexes me - i can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this? should i even EVER use this? : I personally don't use DTilt very often; the only time I use it for is to spike people. You can "camp" on stages where platforms go past the edge (sometimes Smashville) or stages where moving to the platform is necessary (Japes, but you'll want to ban this if you're going Ike) with this, since it's surprisingly powerful and has pretty good range for a DTilt spike. The most reliable way to get this off is jab -> DTilt at the edge, but it's escapable. You can also pull this off against non-sweetspotting recoveries (Snake's Cypher, Kirby's Final Cutter, etc.).

Ike seems to be at his best when his opponent isn't laying down heavy pressure - what's probably the best way to deal with said pressure? obv jabs oos and fading fairs are alright - anything else I should know? : UTilt also works well; it has a hitbox that's great for stopping/trading hits against aerial opponents. Running away and hitting them with the reverse portion of USmash can also punish for some approaches. In the air, Ike doesn't have a good get-off move; his best is NAir (not BAir since when your opponent hits you, you automatically turn to face him).

how do you tend to recover against good players : When recovering, you usually want to go for Aether; if you're high enough and your opponent's away from the edge, recovering with QD is faster. As you know, however, QD is very easily gimped; Aether is the safer option. Kirk made a useful thread as to how to survive killing hits with Ike; basically, when you are hit horizontally, airdodge and jump, and when you are hit upwards, DAir and fastfall.

also give me some random tips lol :

- There are some good/useful threads in the General Discussion sticky.
- Ban Japes if you're going with Ike in a tournament; you'll get camped and destroyed if your opponent has a projectile.
- Try to trap your opponent on platforms; USmash can cover the ENTIRE platform at Pokemon Stadium 1 and the lower platform of Battlefield. UAir is also great for punishing people on platforms.
- Short-hopped BAirs auto-cancel, so you can use them for defense against taller characters.
- Reverse Aetherspiking is great against tether recoveries, DK, and sometimes Bowser.
- If your opponent is going off-stage to edgeguard you and you think you probably won't make it back, go for the Aethercide. Aetherciding should also be used when you're a stock ahead, but it's your choice.
- The best control scheme for Ike is probably C-stick set to tilts; this is because it allows him to not auto-fastfall while performing DAir. While you can avoid this problem by tilting down while DAiring, C-stick set to tilts allow for walk-off DAirs, which effectively wreck some methods of recovery (1:36). If they tend to recover low from the stage to go for the auto-sweetspot, BThrow -> walk-off DAir works as well (3:04). You can also use this to punish airdodges when people try coming back (1:07). However, it may take some time to get used to, since if you C-stick diagonally in the air you'll do a NAir, and if you walk-off NAir you'll just die.
- Jab -> jab is a legitimate combo; to build up extra damage with your jab combo, you can jab -> jab combo or 1st jab -> 2nd jab -> jab combo. The 2nd hit of the jab combo only gives you a 1 frame advantage in terms of hitstun though, so that's escapable. Jab -> UTilt can also work.
- Against aggressive opponents, coming down to the ground with Eruption can protect you.

i like white costumes - for example white metaknight looks kinda like a holy warrior - he looks like he's fighting the good fight. what costume to you is the most "regal" looking costume for ike - the one that you think makes him look like he's really going out and fighting for hte right side? : Ike doesn't really have any "regal" looking costumes; gold Ike is probably your best choice.

The white costume is ike's blue costume. You get a white/baby or sky blue deal going. Other than that you can rock the gold costume, but all in all it's still the ratty cape wearing mercenary.

IMO I stick with smash stick so I can SDI better. I just can't get into tilt stick..

What did you call it when we played ryko? Vanguard color or something?

According to Kirk and scotu SDI > all. But hey attack stick does have his pros...definetely.

XACE, that grab release list is the old one. The new one is in the frame data topic.

How would that be a Vangaurd costume?

Any who welcome to Ike Gimpy, I think everything was covered

Bair **** is my contribution to this discusion
also an interesting trick if people start airdodging bair, set up a bair but when you usually release the bair go for a dair. psyc to spike

Nidtendofreak said:

XACE, that grab release list is the old one. The new one is in the frame data topic.

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O yeah you're right. My mistake, I'll just fix that now.

Reaperman64 said:

Bair **** is my contribution to this discusion
also an interesting trick if people start airdodging bair, set up a bair but when you usually release the bair go for a dair. psyc to spike

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You could also use Nair, or fastfall a Uair. Uair could be useful since its a pretty strong kill, more than likely will be fresh and has a nice lasting hitbox.

Also, watch this video for the most useful application of the Combat Walk.

Everyone here pretty much mentioned all there needs to be mentioned about improving with Ike and making him good. Good choice for a character, Gimpy. Ike is pretty much orgasmic to play as.

gsninja said:

Ike is pretty much orgasmic to play as.

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just like sex, hitting the f-smash is hard to do, will punish if you if you get it wrong andfeels great when it actually happens

F-Smash is an advanced technique.

all u really need to remember with Ike is that he has a sword the size of a planet and that hes very easy to use

easy to use =/= easy to win with haha

thanks for the input peoples =)

who are the best ike players btw

Gimpyfish62 said:

who are the best ike players btw

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Kirk
Silven
Azen
Rykoshet
Infern
NinjaLink

In no particular order. That's what I think from the vids I watched from them.

Kirk
Silven
Azen
Rykoshet
Infern

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Some of the best Ikes are on this list I made in a thread.
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=29977
It's not just limited to AiB so don't let the title mislead you.
Welcome to the Ike playing experience where your hatred of MK is shared by all :o.

Where is ninjalink on that list?

edit; not ur list kimichi

Palpi said:

Where is ninja on that list?

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Ninjalink? And Gimpy, you're playing Brawl again because your blog received over 100 posts by 100 different people? XD.

that's not actually why i was just curious how fast i could get blog responses and that was teh best check

it got it in way less than half a day LOL

I saw you on AiB the other day, I was in an alt account though. o_o

XACE-K said:

Kirk
Silven
Azen
Rykoshet
Infern

In no particular order. That's what I think from the vids I watched from them.

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You forgot Rok XD

I think Burrito is up there and Ninja Link

doom dragon 105 said:

You forgot Rok XD

I think Burrito is up there and Ninja Link

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NL is the only one of those three I'll agree with.

SaltyKracka said:

NL is the only one of those three I'll agree with.

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Agreed. But NL is mostly a Random main. But since Azen is a Luc main, I'll just edit my list.

good to have you back gimpy

Gimpyfish62 said:

easy to use =/= easy to win with haha

thanks for the input peoples =)

who are the best ike players btw

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griever seems to do pretty well with him down in nevada from what i've heard

mogx is the first ike i've seen that makes him look viable, he's a kirby main, but he does pretty good with ike.

and kirk does well in illinois

other than that I haven't heard of ikes doing well, but look those up

Edo from NorCal. He does well with Ike(Places in Top 8 quite a few times), although he secondary's Snake for the MK's and whatnot.

Hey Gimpy!! Good choice of character

I'm pretty good with Ike (shameless self-promotion). Ask Oregon peeps haha. I just don't have any vids up with me after the official American release lol.

B-air is your friend, as well as N-air.

(Try jabbing someone who's back is to the edge, then F-smash in the opposite direction. . .it works quite a bit surprisingly lol)

I'm fairly tired, so i didnt run through the who thread cause im lazy, but here's my contribution.

Gimpyfish62 said:

does ike have a ______ lock? like after you knock them down is there anything he can do to just drag them accross the stage in horribly boring fassion?

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Using the first two hits of his jab combo can accomplish this quite nicely. it works as a decent lock too if you can get people on a wall.

Gimpyfish62 said:

how do you tend to land grabs with ike vs characters that have a good amount of range and manueverability? eg like a back air campy wolf or something? also is there any sort of real extreme advantage to any of the throws over the others? it seems pretty situational to me.

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I find its mostly about timing his long range moves, cause he can outrange most any melee attacks with fair, and nair is pretty good if you can risk the range difference.
that, or spam usmash. people have trouble with usmash.

Gimpyfish62 said:

how do you tend to do uhh ANYTHING vs actual good aggressive metas that you cant say "punish his mistakes" against? i do alright here - but anything extra helps

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cant say i have much for you here, because i dont play a lot of meta mainers. but i suggest exploiting the super armour frames on his neutral b. not only can it stop their attack, but it sends them up into a good position to set up more things.

Gimpyfish62 said:

ike's down tilt perplexes me - i can never seem to find the right place to use it - how do i land this? should i even EVER use this?

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someones probably said this, but its a devastating spike if theyre in midair, just like link's, if youve seen it. send them off the stage then use it when they go for the edge.

Gimpyfish62 said:

Ike seems to be at his best when his opponent isn't laying down heavy pressure - what's probably the best way to deal with said pressure? obv jabs oos and fading fairs are alright - anything else I should know?

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depends on how they're doing it, though i find side-b into jab combo is pretty useful. its easy to space an uncharged side b so you stop in front of them, and it has very little lag if you dont actually hit them.

Gimpyfish62 said:

how do you tend to recover against good players

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Never recover with side b if you can avoid it, decent players will jump out and take the hit from side b, which stops you in midair, good players will airdodge it, which will stop you all the same anyways, i think. go for aether if you can set it up.

Gimpyfish62 said:

i love moving around with forward b for some reason. this isn't a question i'm just saying.

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try using it on people who like jumping over you, it gets you out of the line of fire and sets you up for stuff too.

Gimpyfish62 said:

also give me some random tips lol

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-utilt is magnificent, though has a relatively small hitbox
-fsmash is essentially bowser's fsmash.
-jabs can outprioritize most anything
-ftilt can outrange most all melee attacks, and has high knockback
-when someone's above you, dont be afraid to use aether. it does a lot of damage.

Gimpyfish62 said:

oh one last question - this one is probably the most important

i like white costumes - for example white metaknight looks kinda like a holy warrior - he looks like he's fighting the good fight. what costume to you is the most "regal" looking costume for ike - the one that you think makes him look like he's really going out and fighting for hte right side?

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Gold ike, i guess. Though i'm partial to the leonidas-style blood red cape.

Everyone else has covered the different methods to playing Ike. Simple enough stuff.

Guess the only thing I can help with is the color choice. I'd go with his blue outfit, mainly for the fact that if you want someone who seems to be playing for the forces of light, that's the way to go. The golden outfit doesn't seem dark in any way, but something about the white reminds me of...I dunno...

It makes me think that Ike is a Paladin or something (that title goes mainly to Marth and Meta Knight's white costumes though)

That or Ike shed himself of his bloodstained past, the sky blue representing no longer being grounded as the sky is the limit, and the white is the purity that he found himself in after discarding the dark. If Ike were a king, he'd be wearing the blue colors.

Your most important question deserved a most important explanation, methinks.

Go for the blue, Gimpy, you'll find your light there.

No one ever wants to go for the The Green Giant Ike... Cause they don't like vegetables.

Spin-Dash said:

Everyone else has covered the different methods to playing Ike. Simple enough stuff.

Guess the only thing I can help with is the color choice. I'd go with his blue outfit, mainly for the fact that if you want someone who seems to be playing for the forces of light, that's the way to go. The golden outfit doesn't seem dark in any way, but something about the white reminds me of...I dunno...

It makes me think that Ike is a Paladin or something (that title goes mainly to Marth and Meta Knight's white costumes though)

That or Ike shed himself of his bloodstained past, the sky blue representing no longer being grounded as the sky is the limit, and the white is the purity that he found himself in after discarding the dark. If Ike were a king, he'd be wearing the blue colors.

Your most important question deserved a most important explanation, methinks.

Go for the blue, Gimpy, you'll find your light there.

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Heart of a poet!
But yeah Ike is kind of a Paladin..atleast tries to be one.