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Tying knots - Falcon's true combo's and sensible move strings (under construction)

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
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Location
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With this thread, I hope to inform (new) falcons about falcon's true combo's and sensible movestrings, so they will enter their brawls with (more) knowledge about when to use what move after another, and when are these moves real combo's.

First of all, I will explain the abbreviations you may find in this topic:
SH - Short Hop
AC - Auto Cancel
SJ - Second Jump
FK - Falcon kick
RB - Raptor Boost
FF - Fast Fall
LC - Ledge cancel, this occurs when you end the falcon kick exactly on the edge of the stage, canceling the FK's ending lag, but puts you offstage.
Bair - Back Air - Back (with the joystick)+A while in the air
Nair - Neutral Air - No action with the joystick, just A while in the air
Fair - Forward Air - Forward (with the joystick)+ A while in the air
Uair - Upward Air - Up (with the joystick)+ A while in the Air
Dair - Down Air - Down (with the joystick)+A while in the Air


There are not many real combo's in brawl, but falcon still has quite some combo's that can be very usefull when applied when possible.


I will divide this thread in three categories: 1. Falcon's true combo's. 2. Falcon's sensible movestrings while expecting your opponent not to airdodge (but DI or counter attack for example.) And 3. Falcon's sensible movestrings while baiting+punishing airdodges.

I will start with the first category, offcourse, wich is:

FALCON'S TRUE COMBO'S

jab(>jab)>grab
This combo is essential for playing a good falcon. As the jab is one of falcon's fastest moves and because you can combo it into a grab, the jab is a big part of falcon's game. and because falcon's throws set you up for following up with other moves, so throws can start sensible movestrings, this combo is essential to master/use when possible.

Now follow the Dair combo's. Before we start, you must know these combo's use the form of the Dair where you endure no ending lag from the Dair (this is done by executing the Dair immediatly after your SH)

SH Dair>jab
This combo works at lower percents, and sets you up for comboing the jab into a grab.

SH Dair>up b
This combo works at at the same/a little higher percent as the Dair>jab combo. This combo does very good damage, and has quite some knockback too.

SH Dair>Fair
This combo works at higher percents as the Dair>jab combo. This combo works when the Dair launches your opponent upwards (wich requires them to be on the ground as you hit them with falcon's Dair) and they are still in reach for a SH/Full hop Fair.

SH Dair>Nair
This combo works around the same percent as the Dair>Knee combo. Only this combo has less knockback (even when both of the Nair's kicks connect) wich makes this combo a less good choice as the Dair>Knee combo (as it also does less damage than the Dair>Knee combo)

SH Dair>Bair
This combo also works around the same percentage as the Dair>Knee combo. This combo can also KO nicely, but less good as the Dair>Knee. This combo can be used when you have used the knee often, and the Bair not at all (or not as many as the Knee) so the Bair can KO them better than the Knee would (this is a rare situation, as even an 'unfresh' knee, has serious knockback)

SH Dair>Dair launch
This combo also has good knockback, but again, not as much knockback as the Dair>Knee combo.

SH Dair>Uair
This combo works around the same percent as the Knee, but it also works at slightly higher percent as the Dair>Knee combo works, as it has a greater range (above falcon). This move also KO's nicely, and when the opponent flies to high up for you to knee them after the Dair, the Uair is a good substitute.

The SH Dair can make the opponent trip, until when the opponent has around 35% damage. This sets up for other real combo's, as you can hit them in their 'falling down after the trip' animation.

SH Dair>opponent trips>Utilt
This combo does good damage, so when the opponent trips, this is a good option.

SH Dair>opponent trip>Ftilt
This combo does less damage than the SH Dair>opponent trips>Utilt, but when you want to keep your Utilt fresh to use it for KOing your opponent, this combo is a good substitute.

SH Dair>opponent trips>Dtilt
practically the same combo (damage wise) as the SH Dair>opponent trips>Ftilt. If you have to choose between these two, you can pick the one you prefer.

SH Dair>opponent trips>falcon kick
This combo also does qute good damage, so is a combo to consider when in this situation.

SH Dair>opponent trips>up b
This combo does really good damage. This combo is a good option when this situation occurs.

The next section will cover the combo's possible when you hit the opponent with the first hit of the Nair (FF the Nair) at the last moment possible. These combo's are possible at any percent, as the first hit of the Nair has set knockback. (Idea and findings of the FF Nairs combo potential by face124)

FF Nair>up b
This combo does great damage, and it can KO the opponent at higher percents.

FF Nair>Dsmash (only seems to work on samus with the testing done to date)
This combo does quite good damage, and it can KO the opponent at higher percents.

FF Nair> SH sweet Knee (only seems to work on samus with the testing done to date)
This combo can KO the opponent nicely.

FF Nair>Nair
This combo does quite some damage, but with the findings to date, there seem to be better options.

FF Nair>RaR'd Bair
This can also KO the opponent nicely, and is easier to pull of than the Nair>Knee

FF Nair>jab
This combo sets you up for a jab(>jab)>grab combo, wich can infict quite some damage, and set you up for possible follow ups after the throw.

FF Nair>Uair
This combo is quite hard to pull off, but when it connects, it does good damage and has quite good knockback.

FF Nair>Ftilt
This does quite some damage, but there seem to be better options after a FF Nair.

FF Nair>Dtilt
practically the same as the FF Nair>Ftilt combo (damage wise) so. This does quite some damage, but there seem to be better options after a FF Nair.

FF Nair>grab
It is better to use a jab(>jab) before the grab, but if you want to grab after the FF Nair, you are able to (and do while the opponent can't escape)

The next section will cover falcon's SH Fairs real combo's. Before we start, one must know these combo's use the SH knee where you don't endure landing lag. This is done by executing the Fair immediatly after you SH. Also note the indications of 'flubbed' (meaning not-sweetspotted) and 'sweet' (meaning sweetspotted).

SH Sweet knee>jab
This only works on tall(er) characters and works only at (very) low percents. But when you pull of this combo it sets you up for a jab(>jab)>grab combo, wich you know the uses of ^_^

SH flubbed knee>jab
This combo sets you up for a jab(>jab)>grab combo, wich is always useful.

The flubbed knee can make an opponent trip until around 35%, wich makes other real combo's possible as you can hit them during their 'falling down after they trip' animation.

SH flubbed knee>opponent trips>Utilt
This combo does good damage.

SH flubbed knee>opponent trips>Ftilt/Dtilt
The Ftilt are practiacally the same move (damage wise) and as they both are not able to KO the opponent, you can choose wich one you prefer if you have to choose out of these two combo's.

SH flubbed knee>opponent trips>up b
also known as the YESZ! combo. This combo very does good damage.

SH flubbed knee>opponent trips>jab
This sets you up nicely for a jab(>jab)>grab combo, wich is always nice.

Now the combo involving a falling Uair:

Falling Uair>jab
The falling Uair combo's into a jab at lower percents (must hit opponent with the first hitbox of the Uair, or RaR the Uair but then you must buffer turnaround the jab). This combo sets you up for a jab(>jab)>grab.

The next section will cover the Bair's combo abbility, As the Bair AC's, you don't nesscissarily have to SH+execute it immediatly for it to combo.

Bair>jab
This works at low percents if you sweetspot the Bair. If you don't sweetspot the Bair, this works till some higher percents as when you do sweetspot it, but it does not make too big of a difference. This combo only works at lower percents, but it sets you up for a jab(>jab)>grab.

Bair>Ftilt/Dtilt
As Ftilt and Dtilt inflict the same amunt of damage and are both unable to kill, they make the same combo with the Bair (in theory). If you have to choose from these two combo's (Bair>Ftilt and Bair>Dtilt) you can just choose wich one you prefer.

The following section will cover the FK's combo abbility, using the LC. The LC is situational, as it requires the edge of the stage, but when you learn the positioning of where you have to stand in order for the FK to LC, you can actually implement this into your game, although still situational, offcourse). Also keep in mind that hitting something with the falcon kick slows it down, wich effects where it will end, wich in turn effects if you end on the edge.
For these combo's, you have to hit your opponent with the last hitbox of the falcon kick, and use the Aerial (depending on the combo you use) immediatly.


FK>LC>Nair immediatly
This combo works on lower percents, but is very situational.

FK>LC>Uair immediatly
This combo works on lower percents, but is very situational. The Uair after the LC does more damage than the Nair after the LC, making this combo the better option out of the two, unless you want to keep your Uair fresh for KOing with it.

FALCON'S SENSIBLE MOVESTRINGS

For this second section, I am going to try a different format, based on wogrims idea. This will show all the sensible follow ups after each moves that sets you up for following up with another move. Keep in mind, these are not real combo's, thus escapable. These are all about prediction and experience ^_^

the notation is like this:

set up move - possible follow up move(s) (wich are seperated by a slash, so the slash means 'or')

then each of the follow up moves are individually listed under eachother.

then:

follow up move - follow up move(s) of the follow up move (again, seperated by a slash)

etc ^_^


This first part will cover the follow ups falcon's Dash attack sets you up for. These move strings are meant to get your opponent offstage. Falcon's gimping game will be covered in another move string section.

Dash attack - Dash attack >Uair/Fair/Nair/Hyphen smash > Uair/Fair/Nair
\
Uair > Uair/Nair/Bair/Fair
\
Nair > Uair/Nair/Bair/Fair
\
Fair > Uair/Nair/Bair/Fair
\
Utilt > Dash attack - Uair/Fair
/ \ / \
Ftilt > Dash attack - Uair/Nair/Fair

Utilt > grab > see the Dthrow/Fthrow/Uthrow or back throw section.

Dsmash - Dash attack > Uair/Nair/Fair
\
Hyphen smash >Uair/Nair/Fair/up b

Forward smash - Dash attack - Uair/Nair/Fair

Forward smash > Hyphen smash - Uair/Nair/Fair

Raptor boost > Uair/Nair/Fair

up b

Detailed follow up explaination/reasoning:
when you:

The next section will cover the sensible follow ups after a raptor boost:

Raptor boost > Uair/Nair/Fair
\
Uair > uair/Nair/Fair

Uair > Uair - Fair

Nair > Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair >Uair/Nair/Fair

up b

raptor boost > see top of the raptor boost section

Detailed follow up explaination/reasoning:
when you:

Next, I will list the sensible follow ups after a Dthrow:

Dthrow > uair/Nair/Fair/ Utilt/raptor boost/falcon kick

Uair > Uair/Nair/Fair/up b

Nair > Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair >Uair/Nair/Fair

Utilt >grab - see Dthrow/Uthrow/Bthrow or Uthrow section.

raptor boost > see raptor boost section.

falcon kick - after lag ends string

falcon kick - LC - (SJ -) Uair/nair/Fair/up b

Detailed follow up explaination/reasoning:
when you:

The next section will cover the sensible follow ups after a Fthrow:

Fthrow > grab/Dash attack/Hyphen smash/raptor boost/falcon kick

grab > see the Fthrow/Dthrow/Uthrow/Bthrow section.

Dash attack > see the Dash attack section

Hyphen smash > Uair/Nair/Fair/up b

raptor boost > see the raptor boost section.

falcon kick - after lag ends string

falcon kick > LC > (SJ >) Uair/nair/Fair/up b

Detailed follow up explaination/reasoning:
when you:

The next section will cover falcon's Bthrow. Falcon's Bthrows best/only use, is to get opponents offstage at high(er) percents when you grab the opponent near the ledge, but you are facing away from the ledge. So, The Bthrow is a setup for falcon's gimp game, wich will be covered in the offstage section.

Bthrow > see falcon's offstage section.

The next section is going to cover the sensible follow ups after falcon's Uthrow.

Uthrow > up b/Uair/Nair/Fair/Bair

up b

Uair > Uair/Nair/Fair

Nair > Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair > Uair/Nair/Fair

Bair > Bair

Bair > land (to turn around) - Uair/Nair/Fair

Detailed follow up explaination/reasoning:
when you:

The following section, will show what sensible follow ups after falcon's hyphen smash are.

Hyphen smash > Uair/Nair/Fair/up b

Uair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Uair>uair>SJ>Fair

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair

up b

The next section shows the sensible follow ups after you Nair a (grounded) opponent

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair/up b

Uair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair

up b

The next section shows the sensible follow ups after you use a (falling) Uair on a (grounded) opponent

Uair >Uair/Nair/Fair/up b

Uair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair

up b

Uair on grounded opponent only follow ups:

(falling) Uair>Dash attack/Hyphen smash/raptor boost/falcon kick/ jab /grab

Dash attack>see Dash attack section.

raptor boost>see raptor boost section.

falcon kick>after lag ends move string
falcon kick > LC > (SJ >) Uair/nair/Fair/up b

Hyphen smash>see hyphen smash section.

The next section covers the sensible follow ups after you Fair a (grounded) opponent

Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair/up b

Uair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair

up b

jab> (jab>)grab

grab>see the Bthrow/Fthrow/Uthrow/Dthrow section.

Fair on grounded opponent only follow ups:

Fair>Dash attack/Hyphen smash/raptor boost/falcon kick/ jab /grab

Dash attack>see Dash attack section.

raptor boost>see raptor boost section.

falcon kick>after lag ends move string
falcon kick > LC > (SJ >) Uair/nair/Fair/up b

Hyphen smash>see hyphen smash section.

jab> (jab>)grab

grab>see the Bthrow/Fthrow/Uthrow/Dthrow section.

The next section will cover the sensible follow ups after a Dsmash

Dsmash>Dash attack/Hyphen smash/raptor boost/falcon kick/dash grab/Uair/Nair/Fair

Dash attack>see Dash attack section.

raptor boost>see raptor boost section.

falcon kick>after lag ends move string
falcon kick > LC > (SJ >) Uair/nair/Fair/up b

Hyphen smash>see hyphen smash section.

dash grab>see the Bthrow/Fthrow/Uthrow/Dthrow section.

Uair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair

The following section will cover the sensible follow ups after a Fsmash

Fsmash>Dash attack/Hyphen smash/raptor boost/falcon kick/dash grab/Uair/Nair/Fair

Dash attack>see Dash attack section.

raptor boost>see raptor boost section.

falcon kick>after lag ends move string
falcon kick > LC > (SJ >) Uair/nair/Fair/up b

Hyphen smash>see hyphen smash section.

dash grab>see the Bthrow/Fthrow/Uthrow/Dthrow section.

The next section will cover falcon's sensible follow ups after an Utilt

Utilt>Uair/Nair/Fair

Uair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair

The following section will cover the sensible follow ups after falcon's Dtilt

Dtilt>Dtilt/Uair/Nair/Fair

Dtilt>see top of the Dtilt section.

Uair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Falcon's sensible offstage follow ups: This section focusses on what sensible follow ups falcon has after falcon gets his opponents offstage.

offstage strings starting with an Uair

Uair>Uair/Nair/Fair
Uair>SJ>Dair(spike) /Dair(launch)
Uair>Uair>SJ>Fair

Offstage strings starting with a Fair

sweet Fair>Uair/Nair/Fair
sweet Fair>Dair(spike) /Dair(launch)
flubbed Fair>SJ>Uair

Offstage (strings starting with a) Dair

Dair(launch) >Uair/Nair/Fair
Dair(spike)

Offstage strings starting with a Nair

Nair>Uair/Nair/Fair

Offstage strings starting with a Bair

Bair>SJ>Bair
Bair>Bair>SJ>Bair
Bair>Dair(spike)

Remember that these strings are based off of that you yourself are able to make it back to the stage.

FALCON'S SENSIBLE MOVE STRINGS WHILE PUNISHING AIRDODGES

I will start with this section soon ^_^ I will also start working on the detailed explaination of each movestring (without punishing airdodges) soon ^_^
 

Darxmarth23

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Sweet i get first post again!

Like the colors. Im adding this to the index. Very good read. Falcon truley is the combo king.
 

Roager

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Make the section headings bigger. Like where it says TRUE COMBOS in all red, make that, say, bold, and one size bigger or something.

Also, are all those nair things true combos? I knew nair jab grab, but beyond that, I didn't think nair had enough hitstun to allow for some of those things. Like nair bair.
 

Darxmarth23

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Make the section headings bigger. Like where it says TRUE COMBOS in all red, make that, say, bold, and one size bigger or something.

Also, are all those nair things true combos? I knew nair jab grab, but beyond that, I didn't think nair had enough hitstun to allow for some of those things. Like nair bair.
Maybe falcon out-speed the hitstun, as crappy as it my be.
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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Make the section headings bigger. Like where it says TRUE COMBOS in all red, make that, say, bold, and one size bigger or something.

Also, are all those nair things true combos? I knew nair jab grab, but beyond that, I didn't think nair had enough hitstun to allow for some of those things. Like nair bair.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213339 ^_^

and roager, here: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=pIJJpzrqzq4 these (in the video) are the two I found ^_^ (tested on human player, but still, my results may not be correct, I don't know why not, but I'm just saying)

And thanks for the tip, I will make the headings bigger.
 

Wogrim

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Use indents or something to keep stuff that starts with the same move together, then give a summary of which ones are useful afterwards. Example:

FF NAir >
Jab >
Grab
SH BAir​
(summary of best ones here)

The > after Jab (or you could color it differently instead) would also indicate that it combos to more moves. You may also want to order them in a best to worst order and/or put % damage done by the combo after each one. And percents around which the combos generally work is pretty important.

You also need some sort of acronym table so you can say FF = Fastfall, WA = walkoff, LC = ledge cancel, and stuff like that for keeping it concise but readable for people who don't remember what they stand for.
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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Update ^_^

Thanks wogrim for your idea:)
I added quite some stuff, so check out the (updated) OP ^_^
 

Tenki

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nice boat thread.

suggestion:

change the Red font to Orange?

It's a little hard to read :<
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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nice boat thread.

suggestion:

change the Red font to Orange?

It's a little hard to read :<
hmm..I always found red to be one of the 'easier to read' colors ^_^
if anyone else thinks the same as you, tenki, I'll change it

also, what do you mean with boat? ^_^
 

SmashBrother2008

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Wow. His library of combos has grown tremendously since the last time I saw a list like this. Good job.
 

Wogrim

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I avoided using red in my guide. It's not hard to read, but your eyes sort of have to adjust to it, so reading back and forth between red and teal is annoying. Picking similar colors (like in my guide =P) makes it easy to read but still distinguishable between sections.
 

Wogrim

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falcon's Sensible Movestrings

for This Second Section, I Am Going To Try A Different Format, Based On Wogrims Idea. this Will Show All The Sensible Follow Ups After Each Moves That Sets You Up For Following Up With Another Move. Keep In Mind, These Are Not Real Combo's, Thus Escapable. These Are All About Prediction And Experience ^_^

this First Part Will Cover The Follow Ups falcon's Dash attack Sets You Up For. These Move Strings Are Meant To Get Your Opponent Offstage. Falcon's Gimping Game Will Be Covered In Another Move String Section.

dash Attack - dash Attack - uair/fair/nair/hyphen Smash - uair/fair/nair
\
uair - uair/nair/bair/fair
\
Nair - uair/nair/bair/fair
\
Fair - uair/nair/bair/fair
\
utilt - dash Attack - uair/fair
/ \ / \
Ftilt - dash Attack - uair/nair/fair

utilt - grab - see The Dthrow/fthrow/uthrow Or Back Throw Section.

Dsmash - dash Attack - Uair/nair/fair
\
hyphen Smash - uair/nair/fair

forward Smash - dash Attack - uair/nair/fair

forward Smash - hyphen Smash - uair/nair/fair

raptor Boost - uair/nair/fair

up B

detailed Follow Up Explaination/reasoning:
when You:

The Next Section Will Cover The Sensible Follow Ups After A Rator Boost:

raptor Boost - uair/nair/fair
\
uair - uair/nair/fair

uair - uair - fair

nair - Uair/nair/fair

fair - uair/nair/fair

up B

raptor Boost - see Top Of The Raptor Boost Section

detailed Follow Up Explaination/reasoning:
when You:

next, I Will List The Sensible Follow Ups After A dthrow:

dthrow - uair/nair/fair/ utilt/raptor Boost/falcon Kick

uair - uair/nair/fair/up B

nair - uair/nair/fair

fair - uair/nair/fair

utilt - Grab - see Dthrow/uthrow/bthrow Or Uthrow Section.

raptor Boost - see Raptor Boost Section.

falcon Kick - after Lag Ends String

falcon Kick - Lc - (sj -) uair/nair/fair/up B

i Will Update This Part Of The Section Soon, And Start With The Next Parts Of This Section Soon Too ^_^ meanwhile, I Would Like To Know What You All Think About The Format In The Sensible Move Strings Section ^_^
Your notation confuses me :urg:

And the combos section needs to at least be put in groups so it's not a big ugly wall of text.
 

Zeallyx

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Update ^_^

I added more info to the OP, so check out the (updated) OP ^_^
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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Yeah, I don't get it either... sorry.
Alright ^_^

the notation is like this:

set up move - possible follow up move(s) (wich are seperated by a slash, so the slash means 'or')

then each of the follow up moves are individually listed under eachother.

then:

follow up move - follow up move(s) of the follow up move (again, seperated by a slash)

etc ^_^

I'll edit this into the OP to avoid further confusion.
 

Zeallyx

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Update
I added quite some things, so check out the (updated) OP ^_^

also, I hope everyone understands my notation, if not, it is easily fixed by adding the first moves name to the corresponding movestring, so if you don't understand, please tell me, so I can fix it (wich, like I said, is not too difficult) ^_^
 

Camalange

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flacon has comboz in barlw?11 NO WAI!11!

Nice stuff Knee, nice stuff.

:093:
 

Kiyoo

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These are great finds man! I'm going to be practicing these combos more so I can get the lead.
 

Zeallyx

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Update
I finished the falcon's sensible movestrings section (the one without punishing airdodges)
So check out the (Updated) OP ^_^
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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Update
The falcon's sensible follow ups section is now completely finished ^_^
(I will start working on the 'sensible follow ups while punishing airdodges' section soon)I thought it already was, but I added strings starting with an Utilt and strings starting with a Dtilt.
I also added falcon's sensible offstage movestrings (while still beeing able to get back to the stage yourself)
 
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