shield cancelled running grab advanced Technique by ~gonzo~

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

Hey everyone,

the basic premise of this technique is to grab characters who have long range moves like Marth's Fair and DDD's Ftilt and Dtilt.

How it works, While running u shield and immediately click A for grab but dont let go of the control stick. There should be so little time between clicking shield and A that it feels like u pressed them at the same time. Ur shields will flash for a split second and then u'll do the running grab for ur character. When ur shields flash it should be at the time ur going to be hit so instead of getting hit u power shield the hit and get the grab even if they spaced the move perfectly.

ALso, u can perform the reverse grab from this although i fail to do it in the video below. To perform the reverse grab smash the opposite direction after u click A and u'll get the reverse grab.

Ask for further explanations.

Video of the technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BxjoDZUjiA

pure_awesome · Jan 11, 2009

Err... have you tried this with someone actually attacking your shield?

I just went and messed around with it, and maybe my timing was off, but it didn't look like the shield was able to actually shield anything, as if it was just the animation going off, with no actual shield.

The two times I did powershield an attack, my character just did a standing grab.

Browny · Jan 11, 2009

so... powershield an attack -> dash grab?

...

meh i cant see the vid at work anyway :<

ShadowLink84 · Jan 11, 2009

...........

*gives you a flame shield*

This has been known since forever.

Palpi · Jan 11, 2009

The shield gives you the extra boost. I don't think it is REALLY intended to shield anything unless you still get the grab off that'd be sick.

pure_awesome · Jan 11, 2009

...I'm almost certain that this has not been known since forever.

Where has anyone ever before mentioned that you can

Run
Shield
Shield grab

And you shield grab will come out as a dash grab.

Please do not turn this into another Roll Trick thread, where everyone completely misunderstands the OP and acts all haughty about it.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

i have power shielded with this. It is literally the same as shield grabbing except u do a running grab instead of a standing grab. I've tested it against Marth's Fair and Dtilt. I haven't had an opportunity to test it against DDD's Ftilt.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

Palpi said:
The shield gives you the extra boost. I don't think it is REALLY intended to shield anything unless you still get the grab off that'd be sick.

u get the benefits of ur shield as well as the benefits of ur running grab. no boost from the shield cancel but who needs the boost when ur running grab already will go more than the required distance.

pure_awesome · Jan 11, 2009

Huh... maybe the fact that I was trying to PS a projectile was throwing me off.

Anyway, this could prove useful against characters that rely heavily on spacing attacks, like Wario and Marth, as well as the long-range attacks you mentioned.

Considering how tricky the timing is, both for actually doing the tech and timing it properly, weighed against how situational it is, I don't think we'll be seeing much of it in competitive play for a long time. Still good to have tucked away, though.

Nice find.

Get ready for the flood of people who are going to insist that this has been known for a while, and they do it all the time, and you're a scrub, etc etc.

Gonzo Combo!

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

pure_awesome said:
Huh... maybe the fact that I was trying to PS a projectile was throwing me off.

Anyway, this could prove useful against characters that rely heavily on spacing attacks, like Wario and Marth, as well as the long-range attacks you mentioned.

Considering how tricky the timing is, both for actually doing the tech and timing it properly, weighed against how situational it is, I don't think we'll be seeing much of it in competitive play for a long time. Still good to have tucked away, though.

Nice find.

Get ready for the flood of people who are going to insist that this has been known for a while, and they do it all the time, and you're a scrub, etc etc.

Gonzo Combo!

hahahaha i'll remember that, i know that anytime i try and grab a character that's spacing an aerial. I will shield the aerial and try and get the grab. U should practice just powershielding the aerial they are spacing first. then once u get that down u literally just click A after shield. If ur good at powershielding u should be able to get the hang of it.

ShadowLink84 · Jan 11, 2009

pure_awesome said:
...I'm almost certain that this has not been known since forever.

Where has anyone ever before mentioned that you can

Run
Shield
Shield grab

And you shield grab will come out as a dash grab.

Please do not turn this into another Roll Trick thread, where everyone completely misunderstands the OP and acts all haughty about it.

The reason no one talks about it is because it is known.
Does someone need a topic to say you can dash shield grab before someone knows it?
No.

Does someone need to post to tell you that dash shields counter the push of an attack?
No.

Its similar to delaying a dash attack/DACUS. Its just that no one bothers putting it into words so when they do, it looks new but it really isn't.

Hell I was wondering if this was new until I saw the video.
Then I went, oh, I knew of that already.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

ShadowLink84 said:
The reason no one talks about it is because it is known.
Does someone need a topic to say you can dash shield grab before someone knows it?
No.

Does someone need to post to tell you that dash shields counter the push of an attack?
No.

Its the same issue.

Sir, i believe ur mistakened about the input. Its --> control stick, shield while still holding the control stick in the direction ur running, and then clicking A as soon as u shield, it'll perform the running grab.

I'm not shielding and then running again.

ShadowLink84 · Jan 11, 2009

~Gonzo~ said:
Sir, i believe ur mistakened about the input. Its --> control stick, shield while still holding the control stick in the direction ur running, and then clicking A as soon as u shield.

Those were examples gonzo I wasn't speaking about your "technique" specifically.

I understand what you are talking about.
While it appears new it really isn't.

pure_awesome · Jan 11, 2009

Told you, Gonzo.

Oh hey, I wanted to ask. When you do the reverse grab, is it still a dash grab? Like if I run, shield and reverse grab, will all my momentum suddenly switch directions and my character will stagger in that direction? I'm doing it with Falco and I just keep getting the boost pivot.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

Since when did u know u could running grab out of shield???

If this was none already please show me the thread. BUT i'm willing to dispute that i have not heard nor seen, nor discussed a technique that let u running grab out of shield.

ShadowLink84 · Jan 11, 2009

It should turn into a pivot grab since you're moving int he same direction then reversing the grab which would normally be a dash grab.
Key word should, I don't mess with it since i use Sonic so I don't reverse grab often.
I've known it for a while Gonzo.
First time i did it was when I whiffed a dash shield grab as Sonic.
I hit A too early and I dash grabbed after the shield.
Evidently powershielding doesn't act like regular shielding.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

pure_awesome said:
Told you, Gonzo.

Oh hey, I wanted to ask. When you do the reverse grab, is it still a dash grab? Like if I run, shield and reverse grab, will all my momentum suddenly switch directions and my character will stagger in that direction? I'm doing it with Falco and I just keep getting the boost pivot.

lets say u started running to the right. U'll just do a pivot grab instead of a running grab. SO it'll have the same physics as a running pivot grab.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

ShadowLink84 said:
It should turn into a pivot grab.
Key word should, I don't mess with it since i use Sonic so I don't reverse grab often.
I've known it for a while Gonzo.
First time i did it was when I whiffed a dash shield grab as Sonic.
I hit A too early and I dash grabbed after the shield.
Evidently powershielding doesn't act like regular shielding.

If u did know u should have posted something about it. Because ur probably the only other person who may know. This isn't something the smash community knows. THere may be just a handful of people who know this then.

ShadowLink84 · Jan 11, 2009

Gonzo I am not saying you're running after you shield, where do you get such a statement from.

pure_awesome · Jan 11, 2009

I figured as much. Figured I'd hope against hope that I was just doing it wrong and we could insta-flip running grabs all of sudden.

Yeah, cool stuff, but nothing gamebreaking.

Anyway, watch the double posts, Gonzo. People don't take to kindly to those anymore. Just edit your last post with the new info. And don't let Link get you down, I told you people were going to say stuff. It happens everytime anyone finds anything. Hell, it's usually the same people.

It was not widely known that you do perform a running grab out of shield in any way.

ShadowLink84 · Jan 11, 2009

pure_awesome said:
Anyway, watch the double posts, Gonzo. People don't take to kindly to those anymore. Just edit your last post with the new info. And don't let Link get you down, I told you people were going to say stuff. It happens everytime anyone finds anything. Hell, it's usually the same people.

Yes, we shouldn't say anything to anyone who think they discovered something new!
OH and those same people often tend to be credible posters with lots of experience with the game.
Ignore them!

pure_awesome said:
It was not widely known that you do perform a running grab out of shield in any way.

Only to people who don't play the game often.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

i don't ignore posts, although i will ignore posts from people that post flames for the sake of just posting and not taking into account anything being discussed in the thread. which know one has done yet so far

also sorry for the double posts. i like to differentiate topics by posting again, but if bothers some of uall i'll edit my posts instead

ShadowLink84 · Jan 11, 2009

~Gonzo~ said:
i don't ignore posts, although i will ignore posts from people that post flames for the sake of just posting and not taking into account anything being discussed in the thread. which know one has done yet so far

You're misreading them, I was speaking to pure awesome not you.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

i understand, i was partaking in the discussion or trying to

kismet2 · Jan 11, 2009

Think of this as the jump cancelled grabs in melee. Less lag on your grab animations(since it's making you use the standing grab). The shield that comes out for a split second(that may perfect shield) is merely a bonus.

Sushi-Man · Jan 11, 2009

Nice find. Good job Gonzo

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

Sushi-Man said:
Nice find. Good job Gonzo

kismet2 said:
Think of this as the jump cancelled grabs in melee. Less lag on your grab animations(since it's making you use the standing grab). The shield that comes out for a split second(that may perfect shield) is merely a bonus.

Thnx guys, if u can predict when ur opponent will try and use their aerial then it will become much easier to power shield, and if u mess up just hold the shield and then run or roll or jump away and try again.

ShadowLink84 · Jan 11, 2009

~Gonzo~ said:
i understand, i was partaking in the discussion or trying to

Ah my error then.

Melomaniacal · Jan 11, 2009

Not bad, as long as the powershield is reliable.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

Melomaniacal said:
Not bad, as long as the powershield is reliable.

practice : )

Yoshi Kirishima · Jan 11, 2009

I thought this has been used the whole time? Especially for DDD. Either that or I've misunderstood what this AT is about, or I've been doing this all along without knowing that i 'found' something out.

Sorry its late and i have to go to bed for school, but check out CO18's DDD Guide (or his CGing guides). It might be edited, but if you ask him, he will tell you it's been there. Im pretty sure he did edit it though, but only because he found that the standing grab for DDD's CG is better than the one you mentioned here.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

Ragnarok17 said:
I thought this has been used the whole time? Especially for DDD. Either that or I've misunderstood what this AT is about, or I've been doing this all along without knowing that i 'found' something out.

Sorry its late and i have to go to bed for school, but check out CO18's DDD Guide (or his CGing guides). It might be edited, but if you ask him, he will tell you it's been there. Im pretty sure he did edit it though, but only because he found that the standing grab for DDD's CG is better than the one you mentioned here.

i dont think so, DDD should do the grab where he falls and rolls on the ground (his running grab) no his standing grab, this wont help during his CG but it may help in getting the grab.

FB Dj_Iskascribble · Jan 11, 2009

Its still wouldnt be useful for getting a grab on a mulit-hit air attack would it? Like meta's f-air, or will it grab between one of the three swings?

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

dj_Iskascribble said:
Its still wouldnt be useful for getting a grab on a mulit-hit air attack would it? Like meta's f-air, or will it grab between one of the three swings?

it should be able to grab at the worst u'll take the hit but get the grab so u'll still do more damage

SheerMadness · Jan 11, 2009

Yup it has definitely been known that you could get a running grab animation from out of ur shield.

Napilopez · Jan 11, 2009

I thinkt he reason ShadowLnk may have been so aware of it is because we Sonic's come across it alot. Actually, for us its something we tend to get more annoyed at then happy about. Our running grab stinks and is laggy, so we work on timing so that the situation you describe does NOT happen. We need to delay pressing A so that the shield doesn't become a running grab rather than a sliding standing grab. The reason for this is that for Sonic, shield cancelling a run into a standing grab gives us a slide that actually allows this standing grab to have more "range" than Sonic's running grab. So we typically powershield moves into a standing grab from a run. This quick slide from the run is something most people don't realize about Sonic, and pretty much circumvents all his range issues on the ground. He can, for example, powershield DK ftilt from a run, and slide into range for a standing grab in an instant.

For Sonic its not very useful I would think, but I can see it being quite useful for most other characters. Again, its how Sonic is able to get past several opponents approaches and deal easily with range issues.

Also, powershielding seems to give you a short period of invincibility, so you should be able to powershield and grab many multihit attacks. I've gotten it to work with MKs fair before.

EDIT: Yea, I think everyone knows this at least subconsciously

The importance of Gonzo's post though is that no one thought of a true use for this. It can be very useful, especially for characters with good running grabs.

himynameisruss · Jan 11, 2009

what?

i don't get it.

you're talking about the same premise of a jump-canceled grab in melee? where you run, shield and grab causing the standing grab animation to be used while running? or am i missing something?

this has been known and used since the game came out and i've always used it.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 11, 2009

No, u run, shield and at the same time u shield u click A. U'll do ur running grab right after shielding for a split second.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 12, 2009

Napilopez said:
I thinkt he reason ShadowLnk may have been so aware of it is because we Sonic's come across it alot. Actually, for us its something we tend to get more annoyed at then happy about. Our running grab stinks and is laggy, so we work on timing so that the situation you describe does NOT happen. We need to delay pressing A so that the shield doesn't become a running grab rather than a sliding standing grab. The reason for this is that for Sonic, shield cancelling a run into a standing grab gives us a slide that actually allows this standing grab to have more "range" than Sonic's running grab. So we typically powershield moves into a standing grab from a run. This quick slide from the run is something most people don't realize about Sonic, and pretty much circumvents all his range issues on the ground. He can, for example, powershield DK ftilt from a run, and slide into range for a standing grab in an instant.

For Sonic its not very useful I would think, but I can see it being quite useful for most other characters. Again, its how Sonic is able to get past several opponents approaches and deal easily with range issues.

Also, powershielding seems to give you a short period of invincibility, so you should be able to powershield and grab many multihit attacks. I've gotten it to work with MKs fair before.

EDIT: Yea, I think everyone knows this at least subconsciously

The importance of Gonzo's post though is that no one thought of a true use for this. It can be very useful, especially for characters with good running grabs.

for sonic u might be able to perform a reverse grab with a lot of success.

~Gonzo~ · Jan 13, 2009

1000 bumps

shield cancelled running grab advanced Technique by ~gonzo~

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