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Wario Grab Release Thread (I'm crazy)

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,652
Location
Honolulu, HI
This is an almost an exact copy of the thread I made on the Jigglypuff boards. I just replaced "Jigglypuff" with "Wario" a lot, so excuse the copy and pasting. I was lazy.



What the crap is this thread for anyway?

We all know Wario fails against certain grab releases. Doesn't it piss you guys off that every time a Zelda grabs you, you get Lightning Kicked? Or when Bowser grabs you, you get Usmashed? It turns out that Wario can use these tricks against other characters as well. Sweet delicious payback.


What's a grab release?

Grab releases are when you grab your opponent, and you don't throw them. After a certain amount of time, your opponent will break out of the grab on their own. To start off, let me say that there are two kinds of Grab Releases; ground releases and jump releases.

Ground Releases are when your opponent breaks out of your grab right in front of you. That usually happens if your opponent breaks out while you're pummeling them. After releasing your opponent with a ground release, Wario will suffer 30 frames of immobility, or half a second. Your opponent will also suffer from 30 frames of immobility. Because of this, Wario can't do anything to anyone out of a ground release. The only exceptions are Lucas and Ness. DK is also special as well. More on this later...

Jump Releases are when your opponent jumps out of your grab, probably because they were mashing buttons in order to escape. After releasing your opponent with a jump release, Wario will suffer 30 frames of immobility, or half a second. Your opponent will suffer 50 frames of immobility, meaning that Wario has 20 frames to do whatever he wants.


Why are Bowser's Grab Releases so awesome?

A lot of you are now aware that Bowser totally ***** with his grabs. When Bowser grabs his opponents, he can do all sorts of crazy stuff to them. From Jabs, to Tilts, to Klaws, to even his Fsmash. Why can Bowser do this so well though? Why can't anyone else do what he does? That's because his grab is a little different then everyone else's.

As you now know, everyone suffers from 30 frames of immobility after releasing your opponent from a grab. It doesn't matter if you're using Jigglypuff, Mario, or even someone fast like Falcon. Everyone suffers from those 30 frames of immobility...except for Bowser. Bowser, for some unknown Godforsaken reason, only suffers from 20 frames of immobility, meaning that he can do all sorts of crap to people because he has those 10 extra frames. That's why he can pull off all that crazy stuff out of a grab. No one is safe from Bowser...except for DK.



What's the deal with DK?
DK is also special when it comes to grab releases. When DK is released from a grab with a Ground Release, he only suffers 20 frames of immobility. Because everyone except Bowser suffers from 30 frames of immobility, DK will actually recover from being grabbed faster then the person grabbing him. That's why it's useless to try to Ground Release DK, since he'll be able to attack you with his Ftilt, Dtilt, or Jabs while you're still frozen. So basically, don't try it...ever. You'll probably just get hit and look really stupid in the process. And if you're ********, you might even get hit by his Dsmash, and you know how overpowered that piece of crap is.



Why does DK recover so fast?
Ahh, this is an interesting question. You see, all of this was caused by Nintendo's developers. It turns out that a lot of Nintendo's developers are very competitive with one another. They all support certain characters, and they all try to sneak in little advantages for their favorite characters in Brawl. When the President of Nintendo found out about this, he was not pleased. In order to settle this fairly, he decided that all the characters in Brawl would have a singing contest in order to see who would get the best Grab Release advantages.

Bowser came in 1st place, since he beat the living hell out of all the other contestants. He didn't even have to sing, he let his claws do the talking. Because of his 1st place victory, Bowser received the most **** Grab Releases in the game.

Ness and Lucas arrived late due to their bus getting attacked by ghosts, so they ended up arriving a bit after Bowser. The judges let Lucas and Ness sing their duet, since there were no more contestants conscious at the time. Ness and Lucas sang so horribly that the developers decided that instead of giving them an advantage, they would get a disadvantage for singing so bad. As it turns out, Ness and Lucas both got 4th place.

All of the other characters, beaten unconscious by Bowser, were all tied for 3rd place. However, there was one other character who had yet to sing.

Donkey Kong had overslept that day, and arrived at the contest even later then Ness and Lucas. The judges let DK sing, and the judges were in shock and awe by DK's fantastic singing voice. Since Bowser had already won 1st place, they awarded DK immunity to everyone's Ground Breaks, which was the 2nd place prize.

And that my friends, is why pot is still illegal.



What's all this stuff I hear about Ness and Lucas?
Unlike everyone else, Ness and Lucas suffer from 40 frames of immobility when they're released with a Ground Release. Because of that, the entire cast gets 10 free frames to do whatever they want when Ness and Lucas get ground releases. Bowser, being as sexy as he is, gets 20 frames, which is why he absolutely destroys Ness and Lucas out of a grab. Quite a few characters can take advantage of these 10 free frames, Wario included. I'm not going too in depth into those two though. Dash attack and DACUS work, as well as an Fsmash if they don't DI.



The three types of Grab Release follow ups
There are three types of grab release follow ups, all of them color coded. They are as follows...

Combo Grab Release

This means that an attack out of a Grab Release will chain and work 100% of the time as long as your timing is correct.

WPWALATDSIC Grab Release
Don't worry if you don't know WPWALATDSIC means. Why? Because I just invented it 5 minutes ago. WPWALATDSIC means "will-probably-work-as-long-as-they-don't-see-it-coming." So in other words, a WPWALATDSIC Grab Release is a Grab Release that doesn't chain, but it is hard to dodge if your opponent doesn't predict it. WPWALATDSIC Grab Releases usually involves you using your DACUS, since you slide so far and it's difficult to predict. Or it can be escaped if your opponent knows that (s)he can force a ground release.

Wario **** Grab Release
These Grab Releases are total ****. That's all that needs to be said.



And finally, the list of Grab Releases
Remember that all of these only work out of a Jump Release. If it says "ledge" by the attack, that means that Wario must grab his opponent over the ledge, and then follow up from there to get the release to work.



Bowser
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- Wario cannot force Bowser to jump release, so this is a bit unreliable. Better off just throwing him.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Captain Falcon
WPWALATDSIC DACUS Wario cannot force Falcon to Jump Release, since he's too manly. So this is kind of useless.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Charizard
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- Wario's DACUS works 100%, but he cannot force Charizard to Jump Release. If your opponent knows how to force a Ground Release, you mind as well just throw instead. Situational, but still useable.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Diddy Kong
DACUS- Wario's DACUS works against Diddy. Wario can also force Diddy to Jump Release, making this a guaranteed hit.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Donkey Kong
WPWALATDSIC Fair- There is no point in doing this, just throw instead.
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- Wario cannot force DK to jump release, so this is kind of useless.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Falco
WPWALATDSIC DACUS Wario cannot force Falco to Jump Release, so you're better off just throwing him.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Fox
WPWALATDSIC Ledge Fair Try tot go for the edgehog afterwards.
WPWALATDSIC Ledge Bite A pretty nifty trick once you get the hang of it. A potential Wariocide is always a good option. Just run off and try to open your mouth so that Fox will be forced to jump into it
WPWALATDSIC Ledge WAft A risky, but very possible grab release. Just run off the ledge and try to Waft on Fox. It's doable on both the 100% and the 3/4 Waft. It's not guaranteed, but it's very possible if your opponent doesn't suspect it.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Mr. Game and Watch
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Ganondorf
WPWALATDSIC Dash Attack-Don't bother, just throw him instead.
WPWALATDSIC DACUS-Wario's DACUS works 100%, but Wario cannot force Ganondorf to jump release. So this is pretty situational. If your opponent knows how to force a ground release, then you're better off throwing him.
WPWALATDSIC Ledge Bite-Because Ganondorf has no safe options when you force him to Jump Release at the ledge, you can usually follow up with a Bite. This is actually pretty easy to land, and it'll usually gimp Ganondorf. A nice trick to know if you're a stock ahead, since it can easily give you a sizable lead.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Ice Climbers
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Ike
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- There's really no point in trying this, since Wario cannot force Ike to Jump Release anyway.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Ivysaur
WPWALATDSIC Fair- Don't bother, just throw instead.
WPWALATDSIC Wario Waft- Run underneath Ivysaur and use your Waft. Both varieties aren't guaranteed, but can work if your opponent doesn't suspect it.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Jigglypuff
WPWALATDSIC Uair- It's possible if your opponent doesn't see it coming, but it's probably safer just to throw Jiggs instead.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


The Chaingrabbing Jerk
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- Wario's DACUS works 100%, but he cannot force Dedede to Jump Release. If your opponent knows how to force a Ground Release, you're better off just throwing him.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Kirby
WPWALATDSIC Fair- Wario can force Kirby to Jump Release, so this could work. Useless though, since you're better off throwing.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Link
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- Wario cannot force Link to Jump Release, so you mind as well just throw him instead.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Lucario
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Lucas
DACUS- Wario's DACUS works 100%. Plus, he can force Lucas to Jump Release, making this pretty simple to land.
Down orUp Taunt- ****.


Weegee
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Mario
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- Makes a nice surprise attack
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Marth
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Meta Knight
DACUS- Wario's DACUS works 100% against Meta. Best of all, Wario can force Meta to Jump Release.
WPWALATDSIC Dash Attack- Don't do this. It sucks.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Ness
WPWALATDSIC Fair- Wario can force Ness to Jump Release, but this just sucks. Better off throwing him.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Peach
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Campachu
WPWALATDSIC DACUS Wario can force Pikachu to Jump Release, but this still isn't guaranteed. As long as your opponent doesn't see it coming, it can work. It might be better just to throw though.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Captain Olimar
WPWALATDSIC Fair- Wario can force Olimar to Jump Release, but this is still kind of useless. Try throwing instead.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Spammy McArrow
Down or UpTaunt- ****.


R.O.B.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Samus
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Shiek
Ledge Fair- Run off the ledge and Fair. Follow up with an edgehog.
Ledge Dair- Same thing as Fair, but cooler. Note that you have to be slightly away from the ledge for this to work. In other words, you have to be holding Shiek over the ledge barely. It might be better to just use the Fair.
Ledge 3/4 Charged Waft- HELL YES! If you grab Shiek over a ledge, she will auto jump release. After that, run off the ledge and use your Waft. BOOM! (note that the fully charged Waft is too slow to work)
Ledge Bite- Free Wariocide.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Chuck Norris
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- Wario cannot force Snake to Jump Release, so this is sort of situational. It's not a guaranteed hit either, so you're better off throwing.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Sonic
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- The DACUS might work 100% of the time, but I'm not sure. It doesn't matter though, since Wario can't force Sonic to Jump Release anyway. Mind as well just throw him.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Squirtle
DACUS- Wario's DACUS works 100%! Wario can also force Squirtle to jump release, making this a pretty good option.
Chaingrab- Just grab Squirtle, pummel him, and let him jump out. Then just chase after him and grab him again with your dashing grab. Because Wario can force Squirtle to Jump Release, this is totally awesome.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Toon Link
Down or UpTaunt- ****.


Wario
Ftilt- Angle it upwards. Poor Wario...
Utilt- Poor Wario...
Nair- Poor Wario...
Fair- Poor Wario...
Bair- Poor Wario...
Uair- Poor Wario...
Dair- Poor Wario...
Usmash- Just run foward and Usmash. Poor Wario...
Bite- Poor Wario...
Wario Waft- Every type works, even the 0%. Just use it out of a short hop.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Wolf
WPWALATDSIC DACUS Wario cannot force Wolf to Jump Release, so this isn't that useful.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Yoshi
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Zelda
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


Zero Suit Samus
WPWALATDSIC DACUS- Wario cannot force Samus to Jump Release, so this is pointless.
Down or Up Taunt- ****.


As you can see, I'm crazy. Really crazy.
 

F00LY

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
148
Location
Wilkes-Barre PA
Good stuff. Lots of information in here and some humor as well. Thanks a ton for the additional details on exactly who can / can't be forced to jump release. Now I just have a quick question....

Where it says "Wario cannot force XYXY to jump release..."

Does that go for JUST Wario, or any character? Like can say Toon Link force Zero Suit Samus to jump release, but Wario cannot, for some reason?
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Honolulu, HI
Does that go for JUST Wario, or any character? Like can say Toon Link force Zero Suit Samus to jump release, but Wario cannot, for some reason?
It's usually Wario specific. Every character grabs at a different height, so it varies. If the grabbed character's feet do not touch the ground, then they'll usually Jump Release. For example, Bowser forces almost everyone to Jump Release, but that's because Bowser is so darn tall. He holds everyone really high.

Wario holds his opponents up pretty high in the air, so every short character is forced to Jump Release when grabbed. Sadly, Wario doesn't hold medium sized characters high enough to force a Jump Release though.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Kansas City, MO
Actually, there are not a variety of character heights for jump break situations. Characters are either tall or short when victims of grab; tall characters are only forced to jump break by Snake and Yoshi on flat ground, and short characters are forced to jump break by Snake, Yoshi, and a set of other characters who have a "high" grab. There are distinct lists of characters with high and low grabs by the way; they do not grab at a variety of heights. Wario has a "high" grab and is a "short" character when he's a victim of being grabbed. Wario is especially interesting because his jump break travels straight up; that opens him up to way too much fun abuse (probably not fun for Wario players). Everyone who can force Wario to jump break can of course force a wide variety of characters to jump break; it's just that Wario not going very far puts him in trouble... Likewise, every character Wario can force to jump break can be forced to jump break by a wide number of other characters, but Wario isn't especially interesting in this regard regardless.

This topic describes it in more detail, including behavior on slopes.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205389
 

F00LY

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
148
Location
Wilkes-Barre PA
Thank you both very much for your quick and insightful replies. I've followed your link and this provided me with EXACTLY the information I needed to apply this sort of stuff to my own characters. =) Good stuff people.
 

bassem6

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
1,402
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oklahoma
I guess I was wrong. Sheik can also get farted on after grab release( although it only works when you grab her over a ledge). Two out of thirty nine isnt a very good amount though =\

Edit: The regrab on squirtle and dacus on diddy are interesting new tidbits.

Edit 2: I just came up with a crazy idea and I was wondering if you vould test this MrEh. What if there is a wheel from wario's bike lying in front of wario and you grab your opponent while your standing right next to it.

Would you have enough time to air release some opponents, pick up the wheel, glide toss the wheel at them as they are landing, then follow up with an f-smash or waft? Because I know you can get people with the f-smash while they are suffering from the hitstun of the wheel so maybe this could work...
 

stnapknah

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
252
Location
Champaign, IL
Does ground grab release -> fsmash work on Ness and Lucas? :)
They can DI out of it.

On another note, does the DACUS follow-up have to be uncharged? Because if you can charge it, this could actually be very useful at higher percentages since the up smash does kill when charged.

Also, thanks for doing this, MrEh.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
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If you charge it you'll go past them... also, these options are kind of lame except the one on Sheik... as better players will come to expect this, Smash DI up and out of your DACUS, and then potentially punish you.

Grab release to taunt is epic at all times though... this is the only grab release I use on fellow Warios.
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
If you charge it you'll go past them... also, these options are kind of lame except the one on Sheik... as better players will come to expect this, Smash DI up and out of your DACUS, and then potentially punish you.

Grab release to taunt is epic at all times though... this is the only grab release I use on fellow Warios.
What about the grab release waft/aerial such anything?
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
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Honolulu, HI
Does ground grab release -> fsmash work on Ness and Lucas?
WPWALATDSIC then?
Yup, it's a WPWALATDSIC Fsmash, so it can be avoided, but only if your opponent knows EIDI.

Wario's Fsmash comes out in 9 frames, and Lucas and Ness can only spot dodge on frame 2. When you add in their 10 frames of immobility, it's possible for it to combo. The problem is that if they see it coming, then they can just use EIDI to escape. It's still usable as a surprise attack though, and it's not bad.


also, these options are kind of lame except the one on Sheik... as better players will come to expect this, Smash DI up and out of your DACUS, and then potentially punish you.
Yeah, I was a bit disappointed too. If Wario was as fast as Sonic, he would have guaranteed Wafts on 80% of the cast. XD


Grab release to taunt is epic at all times though... this is the only grab release I use on fellow Warios.
This is true. As a Wario player, any moment not spent taunting or farting is a moment wasted.

Besides, Wario grab releasing another Wario is just mean. I would only do it if the other Wario did it to me first. XD


On another note, does the DACUS follow-up have to be uncharged? Because if you can charge it, this could actually be very useful at higher percentages since the up smash does kill when charged.
All of the DACUS follow-ups can be charged somewhat. It's not the same for each character, but you have enough time to get some charge in. It's kind of annoying though, since charging will overshoot Wario sometimes. ><


What about the grab release waft/aerial such anything?
Wario doesn't have a fast running speed, so it's difficult to chase opponents down and hit them with aerials. The closest thing the Waft comes to working on (that I haven't mentioned) is Jigglypuff. That's not guaranteed though. It might be technically possible to get a 3/4 charged Waft on Ness and Lucas though. Might test that later...


Would you have enough time to air release some opponents, pick up the wheel, glide toss the wheel at them as they are landing, then follow up with an f-smash or waft? Because I know you can get people with the f-smash while they are suffering from the hitstun of the wheel so maybe this could work...
Very possible. This might work on the characters that Wario has a guaranteed DACUS on, since their Jump Releases follow a very exploitable trajectory. I might test this later.
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
If I see poor Wario one more time...

He's a freakin high/top tier character with slightly bad grab problems.

Poor freakin Lucas. He sucks and he's grabbed released aerialed by every tall character.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
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Apr 16, 2008
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Round Rock, Texas
but teh lukis has sooper strong smash! and the finals mash is sooo uber!





P.S. I grab released MrEh's sister last night... THAT was crazy.

<3
 
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