Trillion
Smash Ace
Hey everyone, I have finished compiling the Sonic down tilt information that da K.I.D. has been asking for all this time. I might get kind of wordy in my explanations. Sorry about that, I’m trying to give very thorough explanations. You can skip my intro stuff unless you are really interested in knowing those details and skip to the characters that you are most interested in. I think I have some interesting things in my closing that you may want to see though.
So, this data was collected from computers at lvl 9 in brawl mode (not training, so diminishing returns is calculated in) on final destination. Most of the time I started the opponent and I both started on a new life for the sake of considering diminishing returns.
I will be trying to update this with information from human opponents as soon as I can.
It may be important to note that if we were on a stage with a slant (like Yoshi Island), that you might theoretically be able to get more. Also note, that in most cases if the chain is started at 6%, then I had already used a down tilt to get that first 6%. This is important when considering diminishing returns that may affect the chain otherwise.
Finally not that, if they trip, then you can sometimes get a lot more hits. The best part of the down tilt that causes a trip is the very toe of the shoe or the very edge of the attack just like most other moves that cause tripping. This happened to me a number of times and it works even better if they were DI-ing toward you when they tripped because they will usually not switch their DI in time and will instead roll into another downtilt. Something about their body position and where the shoe usually hits causes them to get weird knockback that can position them perfectly to keep the chain going for another 2 or 3 hits beyond what you might otherwise get.
Mario
The most I was able to get with Mario was 3 hits for 0 – 16%. I was hitting with the shoe rather than the leg.
He got out with a nair after that. I would advise trying to hit an aerial after the second hit bcause 3 hits rarely happened.
Luigi
The most I could get on Luigi was 2 hits for 0 – 11% and for 5 – 17% (a 1% increase if that is really worth noting). Luigi is very floaty. He could actually get out after 1 if he wanted to and did so occasionally. I recommend going for an aerial after the first hit or if you can get the second hit.
Peach
Here is another annoying floaty character. I could only get 2 hits for 0 – 11% on her. That required hitting with the shoe. If you hit with the leg then you can only get one hit for 6%. The problem is that if you get the second hit, then it knocks her so far away that you would have a much harder time getting a grab or aerial afterward than if you only hit with the leg and take only the 6%. If you hit with the leg for 6%, then you can combo an aerial much better. It is probably more useful.
Bowser
At 0% he gets hit once and then can fall and shield or grab. He only takes 6%
My Best: 13 hits from 6% – 51%, involves a lot of reversals
He can easily footstool out by 24% at latest
And he can usually shield after about 3 hits
For Bowser, I would say it is better to grab AFTER the last one if you aren't expecting to get more than 3 or so. If you somehow manage to keep him in the chain until that 13th hit than I would say it is probably better to grab him after the 12th.
DK
8 hits for 0% -31%
Typically, he jumps out after 16 – 20 %, 3 or 4 hits.
He has actually been able to get out after the very first hit, especially if he hits forward B.
My guess is that it’s best to grab after 2nd or 3rd hit or even 1st hit.
I've only gotten him to 8 hits a few times. Side note: I think I got 12 hits after DK tripped on one.
Diddy Kong
Diddy is light enough that the very first hit sends him far enough away that this isn’t very useful because he can already attack in time to stop the chain. If you hit with the shoe, then you can get a second hit for 11% damage. The best I got was 5 hits for 24% damage, but the Diddy insisted on DI-ing toward me and trying to fair. If he hadn’t done that, then I wouldn’t have gotten more than 2 or possibly 3. The good news is that you have plenty of time after the second hit to go for a grab OR an aerial. Either one, depending on the situation could work out better than the other.
Yoshi
The best I could get on Yoshi was 3 hits from 16% - 24%. I also got 5 - 16% and 6 – 16%. Each involved hitting with the shoe and then the leg because the Yoshi Di-ed forward. On the time I got 3 hits I managed to hit shoe, then leg, then shoe again. Yoshi can easily land a nair after the very first hit. So after the first hit I recommend shielding since an aerial will probably be incoming and then grabbing.
Wario
The best I could get was 4 hits. This was from 11 – 24 and I also got either 3 or 4 hits from 6 – 20, so you might be able to go 6 – 24% which would be one more hit. Each of those were done using the shoe. Wario can easily get out on the first hit when hit with the leg and usually gets out on the second hit after the shoe. I’m not sure if a grab or aerial would be best to follow up with. I actually believe it might be best to try for a quick spin dash or spin charge, perhaps spin charge to fair.
Link
I hit with the shoe (I think near the sock, not near the toe) and got a 0 – 52% death combo on link. I started in the middle of the stage. I think I got 5 hits and on the last one it was clear that he wasn’t going to be off the stage if he did not jump and he was not very high off the ground. So, I ran off the side and got a fair, then double jumped to a second fair and he was so far away that he just died. I also got 0 – 34% on him when hitting with the leg. It was 8 hits and required some reversing. It works really well on him when you hit with the leg, but you must be quick to reverse because he falls fast and shields as soon as he hits the ground. He could probably nair and get out much sooner, but it’s really easy to get 4 hits to 20% without the Link being prepared to do anything to get out. I also got 18 – 60% but lost count of the number of hits, I believe it was 8 hits again, but I’m not sure. After about 40% or so the link is high enough in the air that he should have no problem getting out by jumping if he isn’t smart enough to nair.
Zelda
The most I got on Zelda was 2 hits for 11%. She can get out very easy even on the very first hit at 6% using any aerial. It’s very unsafe on her. If you get the one, then I recommend shielding and getting a grab when she lands.
Sheik
I got 0 – 34 for I think 8 hits using the shoe. Sheik falls faster than you might guess. If you hit with the leg even on the first hit though, she will get you with a nair to get out. I’d say go for about 4 hits and then get a grab.
Ganondorf
0% - 37% has been my best which is 9 hits.
Typically he shields after 3 which is 0% - 16%
He can also shield after 1 hit which is only 6%.
I would say that you should typically try for a grab after the very first one. Unless you manage to hit him from very close to Sonic's body rather than with the tip of the shoe. If you manage to get in close enough to him to do hit with his leg rather than his shoe, than you could probably get about 3 hits and then have to grab. I was never able to get more than 4 hits except on the one time that I reached 9. The 9 may have been influenced by the fact that I was getting a little closer to the edge.
Toon Link
The most I got on Toon Link was 5 hits from 6 – 24% and then he went off the side of the stage where I was able to run off the side and hit him with a fair and barely missed the second fair. Getting those 5 hits for the down tilt required me to hit with the shoe at around the tongue area if that makes sense. Not the toe of the shoe or even the middle of the shoe, but around the area of the shoe that is no longer the sock, but the very start of the shoe. It is kind of like the area about where his heal is or something like that. It’s hard to explain. But if you hit with the toe then he is too far away to do anything else to and if you hit with the leg than he goes to high and just does any aerial he wants to interrupt you.
Samus
Samus easily outreaches sonic’s leg, so even getting a down tilt to land on her is hard work. If you hit with the leg, then it pops her so high up that she can land any aerial to stop you on the way down (nair and dair are easiest). I got her from 6 – 18 on my best time which is only 2 hits and that needed the shoe. I recommend stopping after getting even one hit because anything more is rarely going to happen. A leg hit from 0% or even up to 18% leaves her in perfect range to land an up smash, which is probably the best damage racking move to land (better than trying for a grab or aerial because I doubt you would get either judging from the strange position she is in. in front of you and above your head).
Zero – Suit Samus
ZSS is somewhat tricky because he whip and gun thing always out ranges you. It’s hard to get in close enough to get even a single dair. If you can land then tip of the shoe, then you can get 3 hits for 0 – 16% fairly consistently, but then she either trips or lands before you can land another hit. It may be best to try to do a quick c-stick down dash attack at her to do try to keep any kind of combo going. I was able to get from 11- 37% with 7 hits on my best try from using the sock area of the leg. It happened again until about 30% or so, but both of those times required her to DI toward me and mistime her aerials.
Pit
My best was 11- 30% for 6 hits (I think that’s the right number of hits). I was hitting with the shoe. Again, range is a problem to do even land it. Typically, I can only get 2 at most. Many times I end up hitting with the leg and that only lands one hit and hits him so high up that he can interrupt you with a nair or dair. I recommend an up smash or a quick nair after the first hit with the leg. The shoe usually knocks him pretty far sideways and messes it up.
Ice Climbers
I got 3- 27% on a single Ice Climber using the shoe (it was rather difficult to only kill nana without even touching popo.) After that he jumped out of the chain. I don’t think an aerial or a grab is particularly better here. Just pick the one that fits your situation best. If you manage to chain both Ice Climbers than good job, you rock. I tried and I got them both for 2 hits and then popo jumped out and in her rush to get back to popo, nana Di-ed directly into 3 more. If this happens to you, then take advantage of it! Try to land a few more hits on nana while they are separated, you may be able to get her killed! Yay!
ROB
It may just be that I am having a hard time with him, but the very most that I got was 3 hits for like 15% or something. That involved me hitting with the very tip of my shoe.
Usually, I can only get one and he is already so far above my head that he can get out a fair and stop me from doing anything else. Probably grab after the very first. But you may just want to try to hit your own fair or shield and then grab or something.
Kirby
The most I was able to get was 3 hits for 0 – 16% damage by hitting with the sock area. The leg hits them too high to get more than one and the shoe pushes them too far horizontally that they land before you can do anything. Landing more than one hit is rare even for the sock area. I recommend going for an aerial or a grab as soon as you get the first hit.
Metaknight
I was able to get 6 hits for 0 - 28% before getting hit by a fair. This happened using what would be the shoelace area of the shoe perhaps at the white band. A few times I also got 0 – 16% from three hits around the toe area and I also once got 16 – 27% after hitting three previous times with individual dtilts. In most cases, I would say it is best to try for a grab after the second hit.
Dedede
I got from 11 - 40 with 6 hits.
I also got 6% - 37% with 8 hits
On average I can't get more than 3 hits. Dedede can easily just press B to do his suck up or w/e attack. It ruins it every time. I'd say grab either before or after the third hit, but make sure to do it fast. The down tilt is stupid on dedede IMO. It hits him really high, but he falls again really fast. It's really misleading because it appears that you should be able to keep it going, but the height he gets allows him to DI, midair dodge, or attack even with the quick fall speed. I may test him more another time.
Olimar
Olimar’s dumb pikmin always outreach sonic. I was only able to get 5 - 16 and 6 – 16 both with 2 hits from the shoe.. The one starting at 6 started after I had already used a dtilt to get the first 6% and the 5 started after I had hit with part of a downsmash. The second one might mean that you can sometimes get 0 – 16% with 3 hits. If you hit with the leg than he immediately pops up high enough to stop you with pretty much any aerial he wants and if you hit wth the toe of the shoe then he gets knocked too far horizontal and basically just sets him on the ground. If you hit with the middle of the shoe you might be able to get 2 hits sometimes, but I just recommend shielding and grabbing after the very first hit or trying for an upsmash.
Fox
I got like 11 – 72 for a number of hits that I lost count of. I would have gotten more, but I messed up my reverse. Fox is really really susceptible to this due to his fall speed. A chain can be easily started up until about 40% or so. Just remember that you will need to reverse quite a few times. I also got 0 – 16%, but starting the chain anywhere between 0 – 20% will require very, very fast reversing and DI reading because the Fox can land and shield very quickly in those percents. So it is probably possible to go from 0 – 72% or even higher if you are very fast at reading the opponent’s DI. It is best to hit with Sonic’s leg for Fox. The chain can easily be ended with a grab at any time in those percents or even with a fsmash that might even kill the Fox.
Falco
So far, my best is 6 hits from 0 - 31%.
He is soo hard to get close enough to to make this work that I highly doubt that it will ever be a good option to try to do to him.
On the plus side. You can get it three times pretty easily on average and this 3 times can be done up until like high 50s% to low 60s%
Wolf
The best ways to chain Wolf are much like Fox. Wolf’s incredibly high fall speed makes it impossible to start the chain from 0%. He can shield before you are even out of the short after lag of the dtilt. It is hard to start the chain on him before 24%. But it IS possible to start it at 6 and 11%. My best was 20 – 43% for 7 hits with the leg. I got impatient trying for anything better, but I DID notice that you could go even higher than that. I was able to get short 2 – 3 hit chains up until the high 80%s. So, it may be possible to get from 6 – like 80% or so, if you try hard enough.
Captain Falcon
I got 6 hits for 11 – 24% using all parts of the down tilt. At lower percents Falcon falls and gets to shield before the second down tilt can reach him. I recommend not going for more than 3 or 4 total on a human as they can get out at least that early if not earlier. Try to hit a grab after you stop.
Pikachu
I got 5 hits for 16 – 34% on Pikachu using the shoe. I recommend starting it around 16% because Pikachu has a surprisingly high fall speed and lands and shields any sooner than that. He can surely get out sooner than 34%, by jumping, so get about 3 hits and then try to chase the jump that he will probably have with an aerial.
Pokemon Trainer
Squirtle
I got 2 hits on squirtle for 0 – 11% using the shoe. Squirtle got out with an aerial after that. I recommend not going for more than 2 or even more than 1 and just trying for a nair or upsmash.
Ivysaur
I got 3 hits on Ivysaur for 16% using the shoe. He then got out with a fair. I was able to get more 2 – 3 hits chains until about 30%. I recommend 2 or 3 hits and then an aerial. Perhaps even a spin dash or spin charge to an aerial for another hit or two.
Charizard
I got 0 – 16% and 20 – 28% several times using the leg for 3 hits each time. Charizard is so heavy that short 2 - 3 hit chains can be started up until around 50% or so.
Lucario
Lucario is another light character. I only could get 2 hits for 11% and that took me forever to do. Be grateful to even get one. If you get one, then just go for an aerial right away. Maybe a nair would be best.
Jigglypuff
Another light character that you will be lucky to get more than 1 hit on. I got 2 for 11% again. If you get one, then hit an upsmash or an aerial.
Marth
I got 4 hits from 0 – 20% on Marth using the sock area. You can start a chain up until about 16% and get 2 or 3 hits. I don’t recommend trying for more than 2. Marth goes high enough from hitting with the leg that he can get out several different aerials and can Di far enough away if you hit with the shoe.
Ike
I got 12 hits for 0 – 46% on Ike using the sock area. He could have mid air jump to get out sooner though. I tried this on my crew mate and I could only get about 0 – 16 or 20% for 3 or 4 hits. So, this won’t work so hot on a human Ike. My friend did know what I was doing though. An opponent who doesn’t know that Sonic can chain his down tilts like this may take longer to react and you might get one or two more hits on that person. Anyway, if I an Ike JUMPS out of the down tilt chain, then I recommend following up with a fair.
Ness
I got 0 – 16% for 3 hits on Ness again with the sock area and then he mid air jumped to get out of the chain. I recommend hitting 2 or 3 and then trying for a quick upsmash.
Lucas
Lucas is much heavier and less floaty than you might suspect. I got 0 -16 and then 16 – 28 for 3 hits each and I also got 28 – 42% for a number of hits that I forgot to count. Like before, it may be possible to do 0 – 42%, but don’t count on it. The other good thing is that you can get at least two hits from a chain that is started all the way up to about 40%. So, two hits and then a grab could possibly be repeated up to about 40%. I see this as down tilt, downtilt, grab down throw, tech chase for a down tilt, down tilt, grab repeat until about 40% or so. Just a thought, I might be wrong and haven’t tried that yet, but maybe possible. Also, I was able to walk him most of the way to the edge from about ¼ of the length of the stage. Another possibility for down tilt to the ledge and then double fair kill.
Mr. Game & Watch
The best I got on G&W was 3 hits for 16%. I was able to get 2 more from 16 – 24 so it may be possible to do 0 – 24% with just the dtilt, but it probably won’t happen or if it does than you got pretty lucky. Usually I could only get one or two. The leg hits the G&W high enough even on the first that he has time to get a nair, but if not the first he can almost always get it on the second. The shoe knocks him to far away. I’d say get one or two and then try for an upsmash if it was the leg or a dash attack or sliding shield grab if it was the shoe.
Snake
my max: 13 hits 0 - 51%
Typically, its easy to get about 6 hits. Just make sure to hit with the leg area above Sonic's sock. (sock?) Then I would grab after that, since he will pull out a grenade and get hit, thus dropping it and causing you to hit that as well and blow up. I'd say 6 is still a little high, but you can at least get 4 or 5 no problem. Even 10 on Snake is a lot easier than 3 on ROB
Sonic
I got 3 hits for 16% on sonic and then after that I got 2 for 16 – 24%. Again, it may be possible to go 0 – 24% but don’t count on it. The leg seems to be the best against fellow sonics.
I want to refer back to link and toon link real quick. I was able to dtilt chain them to the edge and then fair twice to kill link and barely missed the second fair that would have killed toon link. After seeing that, I am considering going back and testing the chain again on the other heavier characters. If they get caught easily in the chain and get walked to the edge then they could be killed really, really easy and early. It would be sweet to kill snake at like 60%. In a little more detail it works something like this. Even a single downtilt on the ledge is enough is enough to set up the kill. Just get them to the edge and then downtilt and try for the shoe. It pushes them horizontally away. An opponent will (until they learn better) react by quickly trying to use their midair jump to get back to the stage or ledge. All sonic has to do is run off the side and fair and in some cases fast fall to get it. Then you just immediately jump and fair again. (I’m no fair expert, I actually know very little about it and don’t use it as much as I should, but I think the tip of the fair near Sonic’s face is the part that knocks them farther away. Maybe Tenki the Sonic Sage or Twinkle Toes the Gimp Master can provide some info on that for me)
Also, as I was trying to start the dtilt chain on certain characters, I remembered Ike’s jab cancel thing. So, on Sonic I tried giving one jab and then a dtilt and then I landed an up tilt. In about half a second, I racked up like 25%. It was a fresh jab, a once diminished dtilt and a fresh up tilt I believe. The same can be done with the up smash, but I forgot to take down the damage it dealt. It worked on sonic, but then I had a hard time getting the jab to cancel to a dtilt because sonic was landing and shielding. BUT I believe that on lighter characters (Metaknight) this could be a lot easier and I will be testing it soon. Being able to land a quick 25 – 30% on metaknight could be quite nice for sonic.
Overall, down tilts can be chained together a few times on heavier characters for several hits and even few times on lighter characters. Jab cancels to down tilts can set up a wide variety of possible combinations. Mix them up to keep your opponent guessing and you can rack up some damage pretty nicely. A few examples are jab>dtilt>uptilt, jab>dtilt>upsmash, jab>downtilt>jab, etc. Experiment with it and see what you can come up with.
Thanks for reading!
So, this data was collected from computers at lvl 9 in brawl mode (not training, so diminishing returns is calculated in) on final destination. Most of the time I started the opponent and I both started on a new life for the sake of considering diminishing returns.
I will be trying to update this with information from human opponents as soon as I can.
It may be important to note that if we were on a stage with a slant (like Yoshi Island), that you might theoretically be able to get more. Also note, that in most cases if the chain is started at 6%, then I had already used a down tilt to get that first 6%. This is important when considering diminishing returns that may affect the chain otherwise.
Finally not that, if they trip, then you can sometimes get a lot more hits. The best part of the down tilt that causes a trip is the very toe of the shoe or the very edge of the attack just like most other moves that cause tripping. This happened to me a number of times and it works even better if they were DI-ing toward you when they tripped because they will usually not switch their DI in time and will instead roll into another downtilt. Something about their body position and where the shoe usually hits causes them to get weird knockback that can position them perfectly to keep the chain going for another 2 or 3 hits beyond what you might otherwise get.
Mario
The most I was able to get with Mario was 3 hits for 0 – 16%. I was hitting with the shoe rather than the leg.
He got out with a nair after that. I would advise trying to hit an aerial after the second hit bcause 3 hits rarely happened.
Luigi
The most I could get on Luigi was 2 hits for 0 – 11% and for 5 – 17% (a 1% increase if that is really worth noting). Luigi is very floaty. He could actually get out after 1 if he wanted to and did so occasionally. I recommend going for an aerial after the first hit or if you can get the second hit.
Peach
Here is another annoying floaty character. I could only get 2 hits for 0 – 11% on her. That required hitting with the shoe. If you hit with the leg then you can only get one hit for 6%. The problem is that if you get the second hit, then it knocks her so far away that you would have a much harder time getting a grab or aerial afterward than if you only hit with the leg and take only the 6%. If you hit with the leg for 6%, then you can combo an aerial much better. It is probably more useful.
Bowser
At 0% he gets hit once and then can fall and shield or grab. He only takes 6%
My Best: 13 hits from 6% – 51%, involves a lot of reversals
He can easily footstool out by 24% at latest
And he can usually shield after about 3 hits
For Bowser, I would say it is better to grab AFTER the last one if you aren't expecting to get more than 3 or so. If you somehow manage to keep him in the chain until that 13th hit than I would say it is probably better to grab him after the 12th.
DK
8 hits for 0% -31%
Typically, he jumps out after 16 – 20 %, 3 or 4 hits.
He has actually been able to get out after the very first hit, especially if he hits forward B.
My guess is that it’s best to grab after 2nd or 3rd hit or even 1st hit.
I've only gotten him to 8 hits a few times. Side note: I think I got 12 hits after DK tripped on one.
Diddy Kong
Diddy is light enough that the very first hit sends him far enough away that this isn’t very useful because he can already attack in time to stop the chain. If you hit with the shoe, then you can get a second hit for 11% damage. The best I got was 5 hits for 24% damage, but the Diddy insisted on DI-ing toward me and trying to fair. If he hadn’t done that, then I wouldn’t have gotten more than 2 or possibly 3. The good news is that you have plenty of time after the second hit to go for a grab OR an aerial. Either one, depending on the situation could work out better than the other.
Yoshi
The best I could get on Yoshi was 3 hits from 16% - 24%. I also got 5 - 16% and 6 – 16%. Each involved hitting with the shoe and then the leg because the Yoshi Di-ed forward. On the time I got 3 hits I managed to hit shoe, then leg, then shoe again. Yoshi can easily land a nair after the very first hit. So after the first hit I recommend shielding since an aerial will probably be incoming and then grabbing.
Wario
The best I could get was 4 hits. This was from 11 – 24 and I also got either 3 or 4 hits from 6 – 20, so you might be able to go 6 – 24% which would be one more hit. Each of those were done using the shoe. Wario can easily get out on the first hit when hit with the leg and usually gets out on the second hit after the shoe. I’m not sure if a grab or aerial would be best to follow up with. I actually believe it might be best to try for a quick spin dash or spin charge, perhaps spin charge to fair.
Link
I hit with the shoe (I think near the sock, not near the toe) and got a 0 – 52% death combo on link. I started in the middle of the stage. I think I got 5 hits and on the last one it was clear that he wasn’t going to be off the stage if he did not jump and he was not very high off the ground. So, I ran off the side and got a fair, then double jumped to a second fair and he was so far away that he just died. I also got 0 – 34% on him when hitting with the leg. It was 8 hits and required some reversing. It works really well on him when you hit with the leg, but you must be quick to reverse because he falls fast and shields as soon as he hits the ground. He could probably nair and get out much sooner, but it’s really easy to get 4 hits to 20% without the Link being prepared to do anything to get out. I also got 18 – 60% but lost count of the number of hits, I believe it was 8 hits again, but I’m not sure. After about 40% or so the link is high enough in the air that he should have no problem getting out by jumping if he isn’t smart enough to nair.
Zelda
The most I got on Zelda was 2 hits for 11%. She can get out very easy even on the very first hit at 6% using any aerial. It’s very unsafe on her. If you get the one, then I recommend shielding and getting a grab when she lands.
Sheik
I got 0 – 34 for I think 8 hits using the shoe. Sheik falls faster than you might guess. If you hit with the leg even on the first hit though, she will get you with a nair to get out. I’d say go for about 4 hits and then get a grab.
Ganondorf
0% - 37% has been my best which is 9 hits.
Typically he shields after 3 which is 0% - 16%
He can also shield after 1 hit which is only 6%.
I would say that you should typically try for a grab after the very first one. Unless you manage to hit him from very close to Sonic's body rather than with the tip of the shoe. If you manage to get in close enough to him to do hit with his leg rather than his shoe, than you could probably get about 3 hits and then have to grab. I was never able to get more than 4 hits except on the one time that I reached 9. The 9 may have been influenced by the fact that I was getting a little closer to the edge.
Toon Link
The most I got on Toon Link was 5 hits from 6 – 24% and then he went off the side of the stage where I was able to run off the side and hit him with a fair and barely missed the second fair. Getting those 5 hits for the down tilt required me to hit with the shoe at around the tongue area if that makes sense. Not the toe of the shoe or even the middle of the shoe, but around the area of the shoe that is no longer the sock, but the very start of the shoe. It is kind of like the area about where his heal is or something like that. It’s hard to explain. But if you hit with the toe then he is too far away to do anything else to and if you hit with the leg than he goes to high and just does any aerial he wants to interrupt you.
Samus
Samus easily outreaches sonic’s leg, so even getting a down tilt to land on her is hard work. If you hit with the leg, then it pops her so high up that she can land any aerial to stop you on the way down (nair and dair are easiest). I got her from 6 – 18 on my best time which is only 2 hits and that needed the shoe. I recommend stopping after getting even one hit because anything more is rarely going to happen. A leg hit from 0% or even up to 18% leaves her in perfect range to land an up smash, which is probably the best damage racking move to land (better than trying for a grab or aerial because I doubt you would get either judging from the strange position she is in. in front of you and above your head).
Zero – Suit Samus
ZSS is somewhat tricky because he whip and gun thing always out ranges you. It’s hard to get in close enough to get even a single dair. If you can land then tip of the shoe, then you can get 3 hits for 0 – 16% fairly consistently, but then she either trips or lands before you can land another hit. It may be best to try to do a quick c-stick down dash attack at her to do try to keep any kind of combo going. I was able to get from 11- 37% with 7 hits on my best try from using the sock area of the leg. It happened again until about 30% or so, but both of those times required her to DI toward me and mistime her aerials.
Pit
My best was 11- 30% for 6 hits (I think that’s the right number of hits). I was hitting with the shoe. Again, range is a problem to do even land it. Typically, I can only get 2 at most. Many times I end up hitting with the leg and that only lands one hit and hits him so high up that he can interrupt you with a nair or dair. I recommend an up smash or a quick nair after the first hit with the leg. The shoe usually knocks him pretty far sideways and messes it up.
Ice Climbers
I got 3- 27% on a single Ice Climber using the shoe (it was rather difficult to only kill nana without even touching popo.) After that he jumped out of the chain. I don’t think an aerial or a grab is particularly better here. Just pick the one that fits your situation best. If you manage to chain both Ice Climbers than good job, you rock. I tried and I got them both for 2 hits and then popo jumped out and in her rush to get back to popo, nana Di-ed directly into 3 more. If this happens to you, then take advantage of it! Try to land a few more hits on nana while they are separated, you may be able to get her killed! Yay!
ROB
It may just be that I am having a hard time with him, but the very most that I got was 3 hits for like 15% or something. That involved me hitting with the very tip of my shoe.
Usually, I can only get one and he is already so far above my head that he can get out a fair and stop me from doing anything else. Probably grab after the very first. But you may just want to try to hit your own fair or shield and then grab or something.
Kirby
The most I was able to get was 3 hits for 0 – 16% damage by hitting with the sock area. The leg hits them too high to get more than one and the shoe pushes them too far horizontally that they land before you can do anything. Landing more than one hit is rare even for the sock area. I recommend going for an aerial or a grab as soon as you get the first hit.
Metaknight
I was able to get 6 hits for 0 - 28% before getting hit by a fair. This happened using what would be the shoelace area of the shoe perhaps at the white band. A few times I also got 0 – 16% from three hits around the toe area and I also once got 16 – 27% after hitting three previous times with individual dtilts. In most cases, I would say it is best to try for a grab after the second hit.
Dedede
I got from 11 - 40 with 6 hits.
I also got 6% - 37% with 8 hits
On average I can't get more than 3 hits. Dedede can easily just press B to do his suck up or w/e attack. It ruins it every time. I'd say grab either before or after the third hit, but make sure to do it fast. The down tilt is stupid on dedede IMO. It hits him really high, but he falls again really fast. It's really misleading because it appears that you should be able to keep it going, but the height he gets allows him to DI, midair dodge, or attack even with the quick fall speed. I may test him more another time.
Olimar
Olimar’s dumb pikmin always outreach sonic. I was only able to get 5 - 16 and 6 – 16 both with 2 hits from the shoe.. The one starting at 6 started after I had already used a dtilt to get the first 6% and the 5 started after I had hit with part of a downsmash. The second one might mean that you can sometimes get 0 – 16% with 3 hits. If you hit with the leg than he immediately pops up high enough to stop you with pretty much any aerial he wants and if you hit wth the toe of the shoe then he gets knocked too far horizontal and basically just sets him on the ground. If you hit with the middle of the shoe you might be able to get 2 hits sometimes, but I just recommend shielding and grabbing after the very first hit or trying for an upsmash.
Fox
I got like 11 – 72 for a number of hits that I lost count of. I would have gotten more, but I messed up my reverse. Fox is really really susceptible to this due to his fall speed. A chain can be easily started up until about 40% or so. Just remember that you will need to reverse quite a few times. I also got 0 – 16%, but starting the chain anywhere between 0 – 20% will require very, very fast reversing and DI reading because the Fox can land and shield very quickly in those percents. So it is probably possible to go from 0 – 72% or even higher if you are very fast at reading the opponent’s DI. It is best to hit with Sonic’s leg for Fox. The chain can easily be ended with a grab at any time in those percents or even with a fsmash that might even kill the Fox.
Falco
So far, my best is 6 hits from 0 - 31%.
He is soo hard to get close enough to to make this work that I highly doubt that it will ever be a good option to try to do to him.
On the plus side. You can get it three times pretty easily on average and this 3 times can be done up until like high 50s% to low 60s%
Wolf
The best ways to chain Wolf are much like Fox. Wolf’s incredibly high fall speed makes it impossible to start the chain from 0%. He can shield before you are even out of the short after lag of the dtilt. It is hard to start the chain on him before 24%. But it IS possible to start it at 6 and 11%. My best was 20 – 43% for 7 hits with the leg. I got impatient trying for anything better, but I DID notice that you could go even higher than that. I was able to get short 2 – 3 hit chains up until the high 80%s. So, it may be possible to get from 6 – like 80% or so, if you try hard enough.
Captain Falcon
I got 6 hits for 11 – 24% using all parts of the down tilt. At lower percents Falcon falls and gets to shield before the second down tilt can reach him. I recommend not going for more than 3 or 4 total on a human as they can get out at least that early if not earlier. Try to hit a grab after you stop.
Pikachu
I got 5 hits for 16 – 34% on Pikachu using the shoe. I recommend starting it around 16% because Pikachu has a surprisingly high fall speed and lands and shields any sooner than that. He can surely get out sooner than 34%, by jumping, so get about 3 hits and then try to chase the jump that he will probably have with an aerial.
Pokemon Trainer
Squirtle
I got 2 hits on squirtle for 0 – 11% using the shoe. Squirtle got out with an aerial after that. I recommend not going for more than 2 or even more than 1 and just trying for a nair or upsmash.
Ivysaur
I got 3 hits on Ivysaur for 16% using the shoe. He then got out with a fair. I was able to get more 2 – 3 hits chains until about 30%. I recommend 2 or 3 hits and then an aerial. Perhaps even a spin dash or spin charge to an aerial for another hit or two.
Charizard
I got 0 – 16% and 20 – 28% several times using the leg for 3 hits each time. Charizard is so heavy that short 2 - 3 hit chains can be started up until around 50% or so.
Lucario
Lucario is another light character. I only could get 2 hits for 11% and that took me forever to do. Be grateful to even get one. If you get one, then just go for an aerial right away. Maybe a nair would be best.
Jigglypuff
Another light character that you will be lucky to get more than 1 hit on. I got 2 for 11% again. If you get one, then hit an upsmash or an aerial.
Marth
I got 4 hits from 0 – 20% on Marth using the sock area. You can start a chain up until about 16% and get 2 or 3 hits. I don’t recommend trying for more than 2. Marth goes high enough from hitting with the leg that he can get out several different aerials and can Di far enough away if you hit with the shoe.
Ike
I got 12 hits for 0 – 46% on Ike using the sock area. He could have mid air jump to get out sooner though. I tried this on my crew mate and I could only get about 0 – 16 or 20% for 3 or 4 hits. So, this won’t work so hot on a human Ike. My friend did know what I was doing though. An opponent who doesn’t know that Sonic can chain his down tilts like this may take longer to react and you might get one or two more hits on that person. Anyway, if I an Ike JUMPS out of the down tilt chain, then I recommend following up with a fair.
Ness
I got 0 – 16% for 3 hits on Ness again with the sock area and then he mid air jumped to get out of the chain. I recommend hitting 2 or 3 and then trying for a quick upsmash.
Lucas
Lucas is much heavier and less floaty than you might suspect. I got 0 -16 and then 16 – 28 for 3 hits each and I also got 28 – 42% for a number of hits that I forgot to count. Like before, it may be possible to do 0 – 42%, but don’t count on it. The other good thing is that you can get at least two hits from a chain that is started all the way up to about 40%. So, two hits and then a grab could possibly be repeated up to about 40%. I see this as down tilt, downtilt, grab down throw, tech chase for a down tilt, down tilt, grab repeat until about 40% or so. Just a thought, I might be wrong and haven’t tried that yet, but maybe possible. Also, I was able to walk him most of the way to the edge from about ¼ of the length of the stage. Another possibility for down tilt to the ledge and then double fair kill.
Mr. Game & Watch
The best I got on G&W was 3 hits for 16%. I was able to get 2 more from 16 – 24 so it may be possible to do 0 – 24% with just the dtilt, but it probably won’t happen or if it does than you got pretty lucky. Usually I could only get one or two. The leg hits the G&W high enough even on the first that he has time to get a nair, but if not the first he can almost always get it on the second. The shoe knocks him to far away. I’d say get one or two and then try for an upsmash if it was the leg or a dash attack or sliding shield grab if it was the shoe.
Snake
my max: 13 hits 0 - 51%
Typically, its easy to get about 6 hits. Just make sure to hit with the leg area above Sonic's sock. (sock?) Then I would grab after that, since he will pull out a grenade and get hit, thus dropping it and causing you to hit that as well and blow up. I'd say 6 is still a little high, but you can at least get 4 or 5 no problem. Even 10 on Snake is a lot easier than 3 on ROB
Sonic
I got 3 hits for 16% on sonic and then after that I got 2 for 16 – 24%. Again, it may be possible to go 0 – 24% but don’t count on it. The leg seems to be the best against fellow sonics.
I want to refer back to link and toon link real quick. I was able to dtilt chain them to the edge and then fair twice to kill link and barely missed the second fair that would have killed toon link. After seeing that, I am considering going back and testing the chain again on the other heavier characters. If they get caught easily in the chain and get walked to the edge then they could be killed really, really easy and early. It would be sweet to kill snake at like 60%. In a little more detail it works something like this. Even a single downtilt on the ledge is enough is enough to set up the kill. Just get them to the edge and then downtilt and try for the shoe. It pushes them horizontally away. An opponent will (until they learn better) react by quickly trying to use their midair jump to get back to the stage or ledge. All sonic has to do is run off the side and fair and in some cases fast fall to get it. Then you just immediately jump and fair again. (I’m no fair expert, I actually know very little about it and don’t use it as much as I should, but I think the tip of the fair near Sonic’s face is the part that knocks them farther away. Maybe Tenki the Sonic Sage or Twinkle Toes the Gimp Master can provide some info on that for me)
Also, as I was trying to start the dtilt chain on certain characters, I remembered Ike’s jab cancel thing. So, on Sonic I tried giving one jab and then a dtilt and then I landed an up tilt. In about half a second, I racked up like 25%. It was a fresh jab, a once diminished dtilt and a fresh up tilt I believe. The same can be done with the up smash, but I forgot to take down the damage it dealt. It worked on sonic, but then I had a hard time getting the jab to cancel to a dtilt because sonic was landing and shielding. BUT I believe that on lighter characters (Metaknight) this could be a lot easier and I will be testing it soon. Being able to land a quick 25 – 30% on metaknight could be quite nice for sonic.
Overall, down tilts can be chained together a few times on heavier characters for several hits and even few times on lighter characters. Jab cancels to down tilts can set up a wide variety of possible combinations. Mix them up to keep your opponent guessing and you can rack up some damage pretty nicely. A few examples are jab>dtilt>uptilt, jab>dtilt>upsmash, jab>downtilt>jab, etc. Experiment with it and see what you can come up with.
Thanks for reading!
