Official G&W Stage Discussion #15: Luigi's Mansion

oooo....spooky.


Discuss away!

This stage should never be allowed in competitive play.

That is all.

^ Erm, that was me. >_>

Chip. said:

This stage should never be allowed in competitive play.

That is all.

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I believe it got banned at CH3 during the tournament when people abused the living hell out of camping the stage.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Doesn't sound too far off.

Tips for this stage: Play Metaknight or Olimar.

As olimar i never really liked this because it didn't allow me to my favorite Chain of Consecuative hits Down air to up smash to up air to up-b and this stage won't save you if you get nocked off the stage but inside surviability was nice

Aso for tips for this stage

Ban against MetaKnight and Olimar (i guess)

If you stay inside of the stage you can live to vary high percentages which is a plus
i don't play on it much but i believe it has a vary far kill zones which allow you to bucket break
be care against the pillars as they count towards Diminishing your moves
I believe Nair is amazing if i remenber correctly on this stage inside because it their is no knock back and can be chianed to more Nairs

Killing is extreamly hard on this stage

in the end i don't suggest picking it and as others have said some times this stage is band its not a bad stage if you know how to work it but it does not help GaW like it helps other IMO i believe 5/10 at best if not lower

I like playing as R.O.B. here!

Anyway, this is a stage that above all rewards patience and smart play. It is NOT bad for Mr. Game & Watch; there is no reason to be scared of it in any matchup. One of my favorite moments in brawl happened here when Fino the Olimar made fun of me for not banning this stage, counterpicked it, and then lost on it (mind that he had barely lost on the starter stage).

A problem a lot of players have is that they rush into the death zones under the ceilings. Above all else, THINK before you go there. Your opponent is Meta Knight and has used Mach Tornado three times. Should you go down there? Hint: NO!

Against opponents who are determined to drag you into those, you have to have a similar resolution to hang out on the roof of the mansion. They have two basic options. They can either go to the second floor or destroy the mansion to force you down. If they destroy the mansion, you are much closer to removing their death traps. If they come up, go down and meet them in the middle where it's safe. The third option, of course, is to just wait. First, if you are up, consider just waiting to win by time. They get so angry; how dare you counter camping with camping! However, if you for whatever reason are not willing to wait (losing/impatient), use the key through the roof to destroy the upper pillars. That's the safest way to disassemble the mansion; your ultimate goal should be to destroy 3/4 of it from which you can try to "pull" the fight outside (Chef earns a few bits of praise here if they STILL try to camp under the ceiling).

Hanging out under the ceilings can be helpful in some matchups I guess. Unsweetspotted dsmash kills lower than what most characters have here. What we need before we progress is a list of what is dangerous under that ceiling. Here's what I have quickly off the top of my head.

Olimar usmash chain
Meta Knight Mach Tornado
R.O.B. dsmash spam
Link uthrow -> jab lock

What other set-ups do you guys know work really well in there? I don't think Mr. Game & Watch really has any, but I remain convinced that this is a fair stage that Mr. Game & Watch has no reason to fear.

This stage is super broken against someone like Peach who has like no ability to KO. In general you should survive long here due to the large amount of space available.

Otherwise...not that fun of a stage for G&W.

The ceiling is super high here, but the side blast zones are closer, so I find myself killing off the sides more often.

@ AA: Falco's dthrow -> utilt -> laserlock combo is extremely annoying. Its possible to avoid it by teching, if you expect it. I think Pikachu might have a similar combo: dthrow -> utilt -> QAL, though I haven't tested it out.

Don't get killed. If you need to refresh moves, use f-tilt or judgement against the pillars... Judgement can hurt you however, so watch out.

When you hit the pillars, your hitbox stays out much longer than it normally does, this can be powerful if you have good prediction on their rolls or on their spotdodges.

Dtilt is faster than Ftilt at refreshing moves however simply because of its speed.

I agree this stage should not be legal. I don't think anyone mentioned DK, but he is a prime candidate because of Down-B, Cargo upthrow -> Dsmash KO, and bucket braking with upB.

With regards to G&W, there are better stages. Probably the best in terms of surviving by bucket braking. Other than that, meh. I haven't been able to find any fancy tricks with G&W asides from refreshing your attacks on the pillars.

I know that cutter, but I want the moves I don't use to be the stale ones... Typed this with my iPod :D

G&W's Utilt is really really nice on the bottom floor, but I really dislike this stage in general. I might try AA's suggestion, though.

_Phloat_ said:

I know that cutter, but I want the moves I don't use to be the stale ones... Typed this with my iPod :D

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A fresh Dtilt doesn't kill until well past 300% and the damage decays from 6 to like 2-3%. Not that big of a difference.

Actually, now that I think about it, single jabs are faster than Dtilts, they never kill, damage decay is insignificant, and thus is better at refreshing stale moves.

And you typed that on you iPod? Very nice

cutter said:

A fresh Dtilt doesn't kill until well past 300% and the damage decays from 6 to like 2-3%. Not that big of a difference.

Actually, now that I think about it, single jabs are faster than Dtilts, they never kill, damage decay is insignificant, and thus is better at refreshing stale moves.

And you typed that on you iPod? Very nice

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I use jabs more than F-tilt.. although that is more of a SSB64 habit than a good one.

Either way, jabs seem to be the best option.. remember to make them single jabs, make GaW go back to neutral before you start more.

Does the u-air win refresh when it hits pillars? That would be brooooken, considering how large the wind hitbox is...

<3 My Touch, will be taking it to the tournament this weekend. I treat it like a child; a child I am actually afraid to drop.

Repeatingly jab cancelling into jabs is the best and quickest way to refresh your moves.

What rating would you give this stage?

4/10, or 5/10.

4.5

Another stage that isn't harmful to GaW, but there is seldom reason to ever pick it.

I might go for it in doubles, but that is for my friend rather than me if it happens.

Four

GnW can't exploit the stage enough for it to be considered for counterpick.

This is allowed at the tournament I am going to.


duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmb

I'm trying to decide whether I should ban this stage or brinstar. They both suck pretty bad for G&W.

K 2 said:

I'm trying to decide whether I should ban this stage or brinstar. They both suck pretty bad for G&W.

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i kinda like brinstar.
just because a lot of other people don't like it, plus the black GW blends in really well on brinstar.

Dunno why you would ban Brinstar, unless you are fighting against a Snake or something, but they got neutrals to fall back on

Honestly, this is one of our worst stages. Granted, it's not bad for G&W, but we cant rate all of our stages above a 3. Mario Kart is probably the worst, I think. No point in doing that one, though.

I don't think this stage is horrible, and is actually kind of fun in doubles (unless you're fighting an Olimar/Meta Knight team!!). I see no reason to pick it though, it ruins GW's kill power and if your opponent is good at teching they can live practically forever. Also, destroying the house entirely makes this stage another FD basically, which isn't a great stage for GW anyway. Plus a high ceiling...not a great level. It's optimal for GW to have the house half or three quarters of the way destroyed, but keeping the house in that state is not guaranteed.

I can't think of any character who you could counterpick this against. It depends on what character your opponent plays if you want to ban it. Probably about a 4/10 for GW.

As a side note, this stage is going to be banned at my tourney in February.