Jigglypuff Matchup #6: Marth

illinialex24 · Jan 17, 2009

Please discuss Jigglypuff's potential, strategy and stage counterpicks here.

I need matchup numbers. And I am writing up the Snake guide atm. And yes, I am worried about the potential trolling this matchup could induce, so a warning:

You don't want him to cry do you?

Monkey Wrench · Jan 17, 2009

Fair x10> U-smash
gg Jiggly

On a more serious note, Wop works well here, rest KOs earlier than in most matchups, and he can't edgeguard you like he can with most other characters. But Jiggly has a very hard time getting past that sword.

35-65.

Battlefield seems like a good choice here, camping the bottom will ease the matchup a bit.
Delfino seems to work well too.

Maniclysane · Jan 17, 2009

35-65 sounds about right. It's not **** but it's a huge advantage. utilt **** too since it covers most of him. Fair > Bair is we don't time it right, and he has a ton of range. I think if he screws up we can grab between his fairs, which could lead to a bthrow -> gimp. His recovery is meh. Getting him off the stage is a *****. Pound spam is recommended. xD

MrEh · Jan 17, 2009

Best way to fight Marth with Jigglypuff?

Don't.

Huge disjointed hitboxes are annoying.

Emblem Lord · Jan 17, 2009

Could have sworn the Jiggle boards did this match-up already.

SuSa · Jan 17, 2009

35:65 seems right.

And what MrEh said.

And PNDmike's chart.

illinialex24 · Jan 17, 2009

Emblem Lord said:
Could have sworn the Jiggle boards did this match-up already.

No we didn't but I personally asked people for my unrelated guide about it.

Myst007_teh_newb · Jan 17, 2009

It's already been said. Marth is master of spacing, so you'll have an extremely difficult time getting inside. SHADs might work, maybe, but Marth has no laggy moves besides his fsmash, so there's not much to punish if you can get past his sword. The fact that his fair, bair, uair, and nair all auto-cancel doesn't help, either.

MrEh · Jan 17, 2009

The only real advice I can give is about counterpicks.

Take him to Norfair and plank like you've never planked before. Jiggs will be the most annoying thing ever.

Maniclysane · Jan 17, 2009

I'm pretty sure you can go platform to platform with pound. If you're on the far right/left platform, and the opponent is on the other platform, taunt for the lulz.

rinoH · Jan 17, 2009

MrEh said:
Best way to fight Marth with Jigglypuff?

Don't.

Huge disjointed hitboxes are annoying.

for the first time i agree with you

Mister E · Jan 18, 2009

For some reason Marth **** my Jigglysplaystyle... even more than normal.... Jiggs...

For some reason i preffer Wario for this matchup even though he got the same Disadvantages O.o...

Anyway got NO hints against Marth... i always get ***** by him when i use Jiggly so it's better to not give any hints

SaltyKracka · Jan 18, 2009

For you, playing Marth is like playing Snake, but worse. His spacing game is better, his attacks are all ridiculously long-ranged, and if you ever manage to get inside (which a good Marth with not let you do), you're going to get grabbed and thrown out again.

PND · Jan 18, 2009

You can dash grab his fair if you time it right (even if he's timing it right) but the tilt range hella screws us over.

*waits for Veril*

EDIT:

SaltyKracka said:
For you, playing Marth is like playing Snake, but worse. His spacing game is better, his attacks are all ridiculously long-ranged, and if you ever manage to get inside (which a good Marth with not let you do), you're going to get grabbed and thrown out again.

I heavily disagree with that part.

SaltyKracka · Jan 18, 2009

PNDMike said:
You can dash grab his fair if you time it right (even if he's timing it right) but the tilt range hella screws us over.

I heavily disagree with that part.

Oh, really now? Wasn't the whole point of Snake the fact that he heavily punishes Jigg's approaches and kills her easily? Marth is even harder to approach, and his Usmash has ridiculous range and power, just to name one killing move.

illinialex24 · Jan 18, 2009

SaltyKracka said:
Oh, really now? Wasn't the whole point of Snake the fact that he heavily punishes Jigg's approaches and kills her easily? Marth is even harder to approach, and his Usmash has ridiculous range and power, just to name one killing move.

Actually he's easier to approach. He's harder to juggle and he's harder to rack up damage or gimp him on his recovery though so its around even.

3xSwords · Jan 18, 2009

Marth boards have this at 70-30 just saying, so I don't see why you guys would change it to 65-35 when we already discussed this, unless there is some more things Jiggly can bring to the table that she didn't have 1-2 months earlier that would change the match up ratio.

illinialex24 · Jan 18, 2009

3xSwords said:
Marth boards have this at 70-30 just saying, so I don't see why you guys would change it to 65-35 when we already discussed this, unless there is some more things Jiggly can bring to the table that she didn't have 1-2 months earlier that would change the match up ratio.

Well Japes is a very good CP for her mainly because whenever Marth is forced to B-up to the ledge, she has very easy timing on a rest to interrupt his DS and then rack up large amounts of damage whenever she gets him offstage. Although Battlefield is brutal, she does fairly well on the two other neutrals and although winning the first game is hard, if you do, she should be able to win it.

Veril · Jan 18, 2009

PNDMike said:
*waits for Veril*

Reserved

10DBinterrupted

RhedKing said:
Why yes we do actually.
We have sing.
No but really, sing does ok against marth.

Never ever ever ever... ever use sing against a Marth. Jigg-glly TIPPER F-SMASH!

illinialex24 said:
she has very easy timing on a rest to interrupt his DS and then rack up large amounts of damage whenever she gets him offstage.

I'll have a vid of this up in Interruptible As Soon As III.

Tham · Jan 18, 2009

i really dont like the MU jiggs:marth
offline the marth-fair-wall is nearly unbreakable and online u cant uair "combo" him because marth's dair comes pretty fast

imo is gimping marth kind of hard because his recovery isnt that bad ...

35:65 is imo a good dessicion, cause u have chances against marth, but he has better ones xD

AndrewCarlson · Jan 18, 2009

3xSwords said:
Marth boards have this at 70-30 just saying, so I don't see why you guys would change it to 65-35 when we already discussed this, unless there is some more things Jiggly can bring to the table that she didn't have 1-2 months earlier that would change the match up ratio.

I agree. 70:30 for Marth is about right, considering we agreed on it a while ago.

RhedKing · Jan 19, 2009

3xSwords said:
Marth boards have this at 70-30 just saying, so I don't see why you guys would change it to 65-35 when we already discussed this, unless there is some more things Jiggly can bring to the table that she didn't have 1-2 months earlier that would change the match up ratio.

Why yes we do actually.
We have sing. :laugh:

No but really, sing does ok against marth. If you can shield the dolphin you can track he's DI and ff a sing, and of course my personal favorite is side stepping the forward B combo on the third hit and using sing( still need much testing for consistency though) And neutral B is punished with descending Sing type A or C.
Counter is obviously punishable as well.
So unless Marth just ignores the B button, sing does fairly well, and basically just to let you know a successful sing means usually around 30% extra damage and a death.

Yeah I think 65:35 is reasonable

Little England · Jan 19, 2009

3xSwords said:
Marth boards have this at 70-30 just saying, so I don't see why you guys would change it to 65-35 when we already discussed this, unless there is some more things Jiggly can bring to the table that she didn't have 1-2 months earlier that would change the match up ratio.

That is because Marth boards are BIASED. NOT because you want to be, but because you are all Marth mains.

Here's a few things to note

-Hit Marth out of his second jump when possible
-ALWAYS grab the ledge. It will force him onto the stage..easy rest/combo
-Bair>rest is VERY easy on Marth..go for it (Marth is just overall REALLY easy to combo)
-Space full jump fairs.Don't rush into his fair camp, he'll mess it up eventually. That's when you should capitolize
-Fight Marth on the inside only. Tippers on his nair, fsmash, fair etc really hurt.
-DI up out of the first hit of his >B to escape and punish

....matchup is about 60:40 Marth if you play patient. It's like a twisted version of Marth v. Puff in melee which turns out to only be slightly in Marth's favor.

M-WUZ-H3R3 · Jan 19, 2009

*pets Emokitteh*

I hate his quick f-airs that lead to the Ken chain (yes, that is what it is called in brawl.) His range is too big, and his ground game is just as good as his air game. He is hard to gimp.

Be careful at an edge, this d-air can spike you from it.

65:35 Because of PND's chart.

Spoonbob · Jan 19, 2009

Marth = pound whoring for me.

RhedKing · Jan 19, 2009

Wow, you can say ***** without getting censored! lucky....

Pound concerns me here though cause of Marth's incredible range. still though, good tactic to employ in air to air.

AndrewCarlson · Jan 19, 2009

Little_England said:
That is because Marth boards are BIASED. NOT because you want to be, but because you are all Marth mains.

I disagree. I actually feel that some of our match-ups are a bit too lenient. In terms of accurate match-ups, I'd say that Marth boards are one of the least biased.

MrEh · Jan 19, 2009

AndrewCarlson said:
I disagree. I actually feel that some of our match-ups are a bit too lenient. In terms of accurate match-ups, I'd say that Marth boards are one of the least biased.

You should see the Bowser board matchups. No one ever calls us biased because we have every single one of Bowser's matchups listed as a disadvantage. XD

rinoH · Jan 19, 2009

i just played Honu of AiB and my jiggs got wrecked by his marth he 2 stocked me with over 100% I found that nair(marth's) is a big nuisance for us jiggs

The_Jiggernaut · Jan 20, 2009

Little_England said:
That is because Marth boards are BIASED. NOT because you want to be, but because you are all Marth mains.

Here's a few things to note

-Hit Marth out of his second jump when possible
-ALWAYS grab the ledge. It will force him onto the stage..easy rest/combo
-Bair>rest is VERY easy on Marth..go for it (Marth is just overall REALLY easy to combo)
-Space full jump fairs.Don't rush into his fair camp, he'll mess it up eventually. That's when you should capitolize
-Fight Marth on the inside only. Tippers on his nair, fsmash, fair etc really hurt.
-DI up out of the first hit of his >B to escape and punish

....matchup is about 60:40 Marth if you play patient. It's like a twisted version of Marth v. Puff in melee which turns out to only be slightly in Marth's favor.

Thank you.

Ok, guys, there is no way that fighting a marth is as hard or harder than facing a Zelda. Its actually not that hard of a matchup, though it looks horrible on paper. It looks so bad mostly because of Marth's range, but a good player can get past that.

Snowstalker · Jan 20, 2009

Are you going to lock this topic if someone gives reasons for Jigglypuff being *****, and then call it a 45:55 matchup?

Spoonbob · Jan 20, 2009

Snowstalker said:
Are you going to lock this topic if someone gives reasons for Jigglypuff being *****, and then call it a 45:55 matchup?

Why are you getting volatile? No one was even being rude or anything in this thread. Anyway.

I just play super-defensive + poundmindgames against Marth. :\ Most of his moves are **** and such...and I don't have much to contribute. :3

Snowstalker · Jan 20, 2009

Sorry, I'm just a little annoyed about the Yoshi discussion being cut. The Marth boards only seem biased because they're top tier, and therefore are going to have very few bad matchups (MK, Snake, Dedede)

Maniclysane · Jan 20, 2009

It's 35:65 Marths favor.

Snowstalker: This thread has been nothing but calm. You're coming in here and crying about something that happened awhile ago. Read the thread before you post. That could of helped before in the last thread, and it could of helped you now before you posted that.

HiddenBowser · Jan 20, 2009

Fair camping as marth is pretty predictable and because jiggs can basically shield the instant she starts to run, running in and powershielding everything makes it fairly easy to get in and get a grab or sh fair.

Marth is also fairly easy to gimp, all you need is a single hit off stage, but I guess that's balanced out because it's really tough to get a good marth off stage.

idk, marth is... kind of bad. I don't see what all the hype is about him.

∫unk · Jan 20, 2009

Bowyer said:
idk, marth is... kind of bad. I don't see what all the hype is about him.

this is true. out of curiosity what marths are you playing again?

jiggs players assume that marth will get impatient if you just camp him out but marth can do the same stuff back but even better.

i rarely get gimped even when i get knocked off stage cause i take advantage of her slow vertical movement.

Veril · Jan 20, 2009

Bowyer said:
Fair camping as marth is pretty predictable and because jiggs can basically shield the instant she starts to run, running in and powershielding everything makes it fairly easy to get in and get a grab or sh fair.

Love the powershield. You really need it here

Snowstalker said:
Sorry, I'm just a little annoyed about the Yoshi discussion being cut.

Too d*** bad. Contribute something useful (the part of your post I didn't quote was useless) or get out.

M-WUZ-H3R3 · Jan 20, 2009

Veril said:
Love the powershield. You really need it here
Too d*** bad. Contribute something useful (the part of your post I didn't quote was useless) or get out.

Good point.

I mentioned that his F-airs are too quick to avoid, therefore, the Ken combo sort of exists in brawl. You can aireal before the next hit, but it's range just destroys that of your attack.

Powersheild DOES work great against him because (alex's frame data) from a normal sheild, you give him up to 4 frames of lag. With a power sheild, you can give him 7 or more.

You need to add this to the matchup. This is a great point.

Im getting very interested in the sheilding lag. I smell a possible exploit.

GeneralWoodman · Jan 20, 2009

ive never lost to a marth on the ladder b4 <<
i always thought jiggz counters marf my bad

Emblem Lord · Jan 20, 2009

Everyone counters Marth on wifi.

Junk: Plz cut the **** ok?

Jigglypuff Matchup #6: Marth

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