WHY DOES MK's up B go really low sometimes in the air

Mew2King · Jan 20, 2009

sometimes I shuttle loop in the air and it goes much lower than it should normally like I go downwards or start from lower than I should normally. It doesn't happen often (like 1% of the time?) but it's happened countless times over the months and I don't know why or how to prevent it

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

Are you using up-B while raising in the air? How about while falling?

Where you just coming out of hitstun (but not knockback)?

Did you use it right after jumping?

After a certain jump (eg; after your last jump)?

Do you have any ideas on what could have caused this?

Were you holding down or up right after the animation (so you're actual glide may have made you percieve the actual shuttle loop as "lower" when it wasn't)

I need things to test before I can give you an answer. If you help me narrow it down, the quicker I can try to test.

Also, try to describe "much lower" using Mario stacked on eachother if you can. =p

(eg; About 3 Mario's lower then normal)

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

well i noticed that to m2k. i have the perfect opportunity to use it on someone then it completely misses them. and i get punished for it

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

Vicious, read my post please, it will help me test this.

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

all right havokk

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

i use up-b after i use uair and drop a little then i use a jump then use up-b.

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

Any possibility that your up-B is stale?

About how often does it happen to you?

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

about 50% of the time.

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

That narrows it down to up or down momentum, most likely up momentum having some strange affect, or a certain frame in a jump... (doubtful for the latter)

Assuming what you say is true.

I wish M2K would answer my questions.....

Also, about how much shorter would you say it is? (refer to the end of my first post in this thread)

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

right about 3 marios

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

is m2k still online

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

Say's he's viewing index at the time of your post. I would assume so.

EDIT: Now he's viewing this thread xD

Okay, 3 mario's is noticeable.

I can setup a standard and try to recreate this (in 12 and a half hours when I get back from school)

Thanks for helping.

Mew2King · Jan 20, 2009

i think it might have something to do with momentum idk it happens randomly, when i up B it starts from lower than it would normally start it seems, and it only happens very rarely and randomly to me

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

alright thanx because im having a busy day today im probably not going to play until tomorrow.

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

I have a feeling it has to do with rising momentum.

Oh, if only it weren't 2:23 am right now.....I would be testing this xD

M2K, if you're able to test it right now (lol, idk you're schedule..) try testing it with a jump+Up-B at the near same time (sort of like a PK Jump with Ness), then a jump quickly followed by an up-B (Like a DAC with new commands? lmao), then a jump later followed by an up-b. See if you get what has happened to you.

I have reason to believe it has to do with upwards momentum.

/I have school in 5 hours -_-

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

i guess because when i use it usually im usin uair and my momentum is going up .

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

its 4:26 now and im watching superbad.

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

I normally see M2K in vids using it with down momentum, or a bit after a jump. He may rarely notice it because he's not jumping then up-B'ing immediatly, or quickly after like you say you do. (if I'm remembering anything I've seen of M2K....lol maybe I should go watch some?)

He says rarely, you say roughly 50% of the time. You say you pretty much always jump then up-b, which could contribute to your dramatic increase of having this happen to you.

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

yeah i think thats y its short

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

but the funny part is that when i use it against a human player i hit them most of the time. but with the cpu i miss almost everytime.

Atria · Jan 20, 2009

Do you think it may be affected like other characters recovery moves like Snake's and Pit's ^B? What I mean by this is that do you think that you should jump before you use it or have you already tried that? Yeah, I'm beginning to notice this too. I try to ^B back to stage and sometimes I notice that I'm at a lower height than usual when I try to grab the ledge and fall. (Which sucks.

) I might test this out too. I still don't have school yet! =D

OMG! 100th post for me! H*** YEAH!

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

Read all my posts, you'll get what I think it is.

However it could be quite a few factors....

Master Raven · Jan 20, 2009

That's odd. This has never happened to me once ever.

To be honest though I think whoever play-tested this game should be shot.

Tonsana · Jan 20, 2009

If you are below the stage (offscreen), you will do a lower Shuttleloop than you should. I know that u cant see MK, but I can feel where he is and that the shuttleloop is shorter. Kinda like with Pits arrowloops. (you see them in your head).

CaliburChamp · Jan 20, 2009

Maybe it was stage specific? What stage did it happen on? This never happened to me.

magikguy · Jan 20, 2009

well that only happens to me when i'm trying to recover unlucky stuff.

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

@Tonsana

I think thats just you, hack your game and screw with the game camera to see for yourself.

@Calibur

What makes you think its stage specific? "lol, lets nerf his recovery only on battlefield!" :/ possibly, but bad theory.

@Magikguy

HAHA!

_________

I'll get to testing when I don't feel like throwing up.

Tero. · Jan 20, 2009

Havokk said:
What makes you think its stage specific? "lol, lets nerf his recovery only on battlefield!" :/ possibly, but bad theory.

What about moving stages e.g. stages with upwards movement? (are there any?)
But i think that theory is kinda unlikely.

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

.Tero said:
What about moving stages e.g. stages with upwards movement? (are there any?)
But i think that theory is kinda unlikely.

I think they'd be able to determine if its RC or not. :laugh:

Tero. · Jan 20, 2009

Havokk said:
I think they'd be able to determine if its RC or not.

i didnt only think of rc only, more like platform who move up.
Look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJl5fOnxIcs its melee, but you can see of what stuff im thinking about.

but as i said its unlikely, there are def better theories, i just thought i mention it.

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

.Tero said:
i didnt only think of rc only, more like platform who move up.
Look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJl5fOnxIcs its melee, but you can see of what stuff im thinking about.

but as i said its unlikely, there are def better theories, i just thought i mention it.

Find a tourney legal stage in Brawl that moves or has a rising/lowering platform.

All neutrals - off that list
RC - moves
Luigi's Mansion - has small platforms that move a bit ( I do believe )

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

I tested for roughly an hour, it could just be me but I think I finally got something (last thing I bothered to test)

Using Up Air, then mashing up-B afterwards seems to make you go lower. I could just be seeing things...

EDIT____
1 more thing that seems to make you go lower:

Using up-B while falling (and since I'm using TJ Off, I use Uair and fall a tiny bit before the up-B)

I feel downwards momentum counteracts the upwards momentum up-B gives you.

I did a quick control for the downards momentum, marking a certain point of the stage with a small thing of duct tape.

When I got below that point, I would Jump then up-B, I would LIVE AND GRAB THE EDGE.

When I jumped off of the low platform of battlefield, and up-B'd as I hit that point, I WAS TO LOW AND DIED

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

thanks havokk

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

It would help me if people double checked my work.

Here's how to do the control:

Pick a certain point to use Up-B (MAKE SURE TO JUMP FIRST) that you can make it to the ledge 9/10 tries.

Using that point, use either of the 2 lower platforms on BF to jump down to that point. As you reach that point, use up-B to try and reach the edge.

If done correctly, the falling up-B shouldn't make it.

Test it multiple times, then test from that same spot, the jump>Up-B.

If my testing is true, heres a tip for recovering:

ALWAYS save your final jump to use before up-B. Or at least use Up-B while you're not falling <.<

vicious1990 · Jan 20, 2009

ur right when i did it i didnt make it. but i used your tip that worked perfectly

Deflect · Jan 20, 2009

I've had this happen to me before.

SuSa · Jan 20, 2009

I like how no one reads my posts explaining this.

M2K, you've been answered.

Crizthakidd · Jan 21, 2009

i know what m2k is talking about the hsuttle loop is kidna like slow and lower then normal. its a werid glitch thanks to the havokk system and i am not sure hwo to recreate its just buggy *** physics but m2k should be able to figure this out with some of that genious u always do to figure these things out

Kenpachi · Jan 22, 2009

I've had this happen when I use shuttle loop after an edge-grab (with intention to hit the foe, land on the stage, cancel and continue). Havokk's explanation works there too because if I were to create the proper fast falling conditions (i hit down to ledge-release), I would not come back up to edge level to land. (actually, I'm too low to regrab the edge even. I also don't hit my opponent either).

Anyways, just thought I'd throw in my experience with the phenomena to back up Havokk's results.

-Kenpachi

Deoxys · Jan 22, 2009

Master Raven said:
That's odd. This has never happened to me once ever.

To be honest though I think whoever play-tested this game should be shot.

Actually, what happened is the playtesters told Sakurai the game was buggy and he was like, "**** it, I'm releasing this game!"

That said, I get this too, but I've only noticed in with aerial SLs. Does it happen w/ both?

Havokk, does it only happen when falling or only when fast falling or both?

WHY DOES MK's up B go really low sometimes in the air

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