Throws are just TOO good.

Okay, we have a moveset discussion, but throws are just to epic to wait for.

• Dthrow - 12%
• Uthrow - 11%
• Bthrow - 9%
• Fthrow - 10%

Obviously, 4 throws. That's just the order they appear in.....


Down Throw

Pro's:

• Sets up a 'tech' chase.
• Can lead to itself.
• Our most damaging throw
• Can lead to ftilt/dair/jab/utilt

Con's:

• If you misread your opponent, you risk being punished. (Often times just a get up attack, nothing big)
• It's so good, thats really its only con...

How to Tech Chase

Opponents mind set:

Tech chasing heavily relies on your opponent and their mind set. Out of experience, heres a few tips for tech chasing (your opponent is a factor, these will not always hold true. However, on the majority of players, they do 'hold true')

When facing the edge, and near the edge, your opponent will roll behind you, or do a get up attack. Depending on your opponents mindset (Defensive/Aggressive) will determine this the first time. Simply shielding limits every option they have if you have quick enough reflexes.

When facing the edge, but not within a roll of the edge, your opponent will try to roll away from you. This is because in most scenarios, rolling away is the safest option. Knowing its the safest option, actually makes it more dangerous. We expect you to go with the safest option if available. Just run forward and hope your opponent isn't aggressive.

After a roll, most opponents try rolling the opposite direction. After this doesn't work, most people try to 'mindgame' you by rolling the same way twice.

By shielding, if the opponent does a getup attack, you have a free ftilt (and in some cases, another grab). If they roll behind you, you can turn around and ftilt (or jab > ftilt ftilt). If they roll away, depending on which character, you have enough time to Boost Grab them, or dash attack them. If they roll behind you, you can also SH dair them.

The most important part of tech chasing however, is Keep An Eye On Your Opponent by watching what they do. Analyze them for a pattern. If they keep rolling away, stop shielding and run straight ahead to grab them.


Up Throw

Pro's:

• Can lead to itself on heavier characters, or aggressive opponents at low %'s
• Second most damaging throw
• Can lead to a 1 Jab Jab Lock, to a regrab or any punish move. (Good timing makes Fsmash work) -- Low %'s only
• Leads to utilt at lower %'s (which can sometimes lead to another aerial, but thats not guarented)
• Can lead to a c4 sticky (for the lulz)

Con's:

• If you misread your opponent, you risk eating an aerial to the face. If you're at a higher %, some aerials will kill you.
• Down Throw is better in nearly every way.

The Pseudo Tech Chase-

On heavier opponents, and fastfallers. You can Up throw > Dash away > Pivot Grab to regrab them. From here, you have 2 options.

1) Down Throw
2) Up Throw > Up Tilt
3) Up Throw > Predict opponents reaction > Regrab

1) Best choice
2) Personal choice if you're just bad at the down throw tech chase, or not in a real good spot to easily read your opponent.
3) Worst choice, I don't suggest this... however its interesting sometimes...

Why Uthrow?

Mixups. In some situations (lower enemy %'s) uthrow is better then both fthrow and bthrow. It also does more damage then either of those two. Sometimes you're facing an opponent who is hard to tech chase. In the uthrow, uthrow>utilt is guarenteed on basically the entire cast at 0% (or so I've seen and practiced) and sometimes uthrow>utilt>utilt, and on some characters uthrow>uthrow>utilt.

Because its guarenteed, it helps rack up 30-40% quickly. (It also puts your opponent above you, a really bad spot to be. You can punish most landings with a boost grab or a shield grab, then proceed with other throws)

Uthrow is only 'effective' at 0% to 20% (most of the cast). After that 20% (lol 1 ftilt basically) it loses its effectiveness.

This is when you decide, 30% from a uthrow combo, or 21% from a fresh ftilt?

It's also good mid-game, to freshen up your other moves, so long as the opponent just died.


I prefer doing uthrow at 0-15% (20% only for heavyweights/fastfallers), otherwise I choose dthrow (tech chase), or if I have c4/mines setup, I choose fthrow/bthrow.

Uthrow is **** though, because its a fantastic mixup, and places your opponent in the air, where there just another grab away.

My best "chaingrab" was 4 uthrows in a row, against an aggressive opponent.

For the "uthrow cg", any time after 0-3% requires you to shield in case they use an aerial, then you can just shield grab the aerial. - See how thats useful?

At 0% against some of the cast (heavyweights, only some of them) you can uthrow and they are left in stun until they touch the ground (or at least, from my testing they are). Snake has a 1 Jab Jab lock from this. If you can jab at the right moment in their "flop" animation, you do a FORCED GET UP. That means, they stand up without doing anything.

This forced standup leads to:

Uncharged Fsmash
Ftilt
Utilt
Free Grab
C4 Sticky
Jab
Dtilt
Dair
SH bair (through them)
Nikita?

Yah.. this can lead to a LOT. (my favorite is fsmash, especially near the edge <.<)

Thats why uthrow *****. Uthrow > jab > Fsmash is to good, lol

Bthrow:
~Coming Soon~

Fthrow:
~Coming Soon~

People actually use anything other than dthrow?

I really cant understand why any other throw needs discussing when the dthrow is THAT good. unless is a b/fthrow on the platform on Smashville to KO lol

Bthrow/Fthrow is for explosive setups, and nair setups (yah, most opponents jump from it, free nair <_< I have so many clips of me doing this... its pretty practical)


Dthrow is good, but sometimes its pretty stale (if you just ended a dthrow tech chase with a utilt from the last stock) and at some %'s or the start of a game, you won't know how your opponent will react, making tech chasing harder, in that case uthrow is the best option (also, chances are you don't have anything setup for fthrow/bthrow)

--dinner time, bbs

Havokk post a video of yourself doing the Fthrow to N-air. I am kind of interested to see how you do it.

You f/bthrow someone off-stage, they jump to recover, you jump and nair. Work's on stage as well, but less likely.

Smarter opponents will avoid this, but I've done it to players who are "better" then me, and its practical, even if it doesn't seem it is... lol

Works from like.... 10-30% on most people, because its peoples habit to jump, or DI away and tech (latter you can normally DACUS to punish)

Really, Snake is such a "set people up for things" I haven't seen people work as much on his PUNISHING game.

I love powershield > c4 stick. It's fun, sticking is always neat, and sometimes you can utilt > NOW!

Yeah I know I was just curious what you meant. The explanation works. So I am guessing the most reliable way to stick a C4 is after a powershield?

That, and during end lag.

Startup lag is risky <.< better off using ftilt, etc.

But things with bad end lag, you can normally c4 stick, and then utilt (especially if you power shielded)

I don't see enough Snake's do this, they normaly just ftilt ( a good option, but not always the best)

The other throws are great, but more situational than the Dthrow.

Uthrow at low percents leads into win. Uthrow, Nair, Bair, Uair all can come out of a low percent Uthrow. It's pretty easy to launch someone into a C4 or trip mine, too.

Bair and Fair have enough knockback to get an opponent offstage to get time to set up explosives, or deal a lot of damage while they get back on.

Seriously, grab someone near the edge and Bthrow, then launch a mortar, lay a 'nade and a C4, and use that wall of explosives to regrab and throw them back out again. If you space everything well, you can keep someone off stage for a LONG time, and they'll either have to stay offstage or jump into the **** and take a ton of damage.

Now that I do want to see. Are there any videos with this in action I can look at? I'm trying to improve my Snake so anything will definately help.

I really cant understand why any other throw needs discussing when the dthrow is THAT good. unless is a b/fthrow on the platform on Smashville to KO lol

Click to expand...

it can be worth it when you're near the edge to toss them off IMO, you can do so many crazy edge traps as snake that it reduces their options with a pretty similar degree of efficiency, plus you can throw people into grenades and mines and such.

another note about dthrow tech chasing is that some people will attempt to throw your timing off and make you make the first move by just staying there for a second, easy C4 stick if you notice them doing this and it'll scare them straight into not doing it anymore.

That happened to me before. They ate an U-tilt. Scarier IMO too.

On down throw you can dtilt them.
The only time I really dtilt lol

I remember when you said you haven't explained why uthrow is awesome, and I said it had combo in utilt/ usmash or itself.

lol

Vorguen said:

Now that I do want to see. Are there any videos with this in action I can look at? I'm trying to improve my Snake so anything will definately help.

Click to expand...

I'll play some friendlies today and do it, then upload them tonight.

Awesome, I'll PM you to remind you. As far as I critique my Snake I think when it comes to all aspects of his game I am very content with myself except when it comes to his explosives game. I mean I know all the basics and I'm good with explosives but I feel like I can control people's reactions better. I'm starting to do things like lay D-smash mines in one part of the map, then start D-throw tech chases near them, because 9/10 they will roll behind me in that case, and that's the easiest of the three rolls for me to punish (just turn and tilt or jab to tilt)

So yeah point being I want to catch on more creative ways to manipulate opponent's movements through the use of explosives.

At 0% against some of the cast (heavyweights, only some of them) you can uthrow and they are left in stun until they touch the ground (or at least, from my testing they are). Snake has a 1 Jab Jab lock from this. If you can jab at the right moment in their "flop" animation, you do a FORCED GET UP. That means, they stand up without doing anything.

This forced standup leads to:

Uncharged Fsmash
Ftilt
Utilt
Free Grab
C4 Sticky
Jab
Dtilt
Dair
SH bair (through them)
Nikita?

Click to expand...

have a list of which characters this works on exactly? I wouldn't have imagined fsmash could work from a forced get up o_O

I think I had this situation happen to me once, against a Snake on a friendly, although he definately U-tilted. I was using DK I think.

what do you mean by the flop?

is that when they hit the ground?

misterpimp5757 said:

what do you mean by the flop?

is that when they hit the ground?

Click to expand...

When they hit the ground and bounce back up like a fish on dry land except only 1 or as many times they get hit at the right moment.

Havokk awesome thread ;D pros and cons where funny !.

U-throw to the c4 sticky is pretty useful, I do it all the time to my friend who likes to main bowser. All you have to do is keep your eye on the clock. right when you stick it say to yourself (I have 10 seconds before I should really think about blowing up the c4) and alot of stuff can happen in 10 seconds. usually when I stick a c4 to someone and by the time i blow it up it either KO's them, or changes the flow of the fight (you lose your train of battle after you get blown up by a stuck c4)

Also, people really don't use the c4 stick to often, so not many people know how to counter it...most people just run into you and hope that the c4 sticks to you, in that case if leaves them open for assualt. or other people will just dodge roll back and forth or stand still in a shield. also anthor punishable maneuver because u can run up and space a F tilt or run up > grab > D throw > jump and blow up c4 ususally always hits.

You have 13 seconds to blow it up before it falls off.

You can't counter the c4 stick unless the Snake tries to blow it up when you're NOT in hitstun or coming out of an animation, and sometimes when they come out of an airdodge (to attempt to dodge the c4) I just jump up and Nair them. :D

Anyways, bthrow/fthrow coming soon

ahhh. I though it just fell off here and there because of some unknown reason that I haven't figured out.

edited =P

Just a quick question, if you know your opponent is going to roll forward and thus you dash forward for a grab, is it guaranteed? I was playing some friendlies the other day against a Falco, and sometimes I got him and sometimes he managed to spot dodge in time, and I ate a d-smash. Am I just not doing it fast enough, or is there acutally a window to get out of it?

Falco rolls far, boost grab him.

If you're frame-perfect you can grab him, but boost grab is better range and allows for far more error.

I would tell you to go to the Q&A, but it's relevant in this thread.

What's the difference between Bthrow and fthrow other then in direction?

I haven't done too many C4 stickies, but out of curiosity, is it easy to lose track of who has the C4 stuck to them? If things get all mixed up how can you be sure who has it, as far as I know it's not too reliable to try to spot it on the other person, sometimes you can't see it well.

As long as you listen it is easy

Man, no one wanted to play Smash with me today, I'll get a vid up tomorrow.

Alright then I'll be sure to keep an eye out for it then.