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Port Town Aero Dive Analysis

Kirk

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I did a mini project for the Smash Lab analyzing the workings of Port Town Aero Drive awhile back. I was meaning to share this some time ago, but I kept forgetting to do so.

So, for anyone interested...read on!

Kirk said:
Alright here we go:

Screenshots

First, screenshots of the stage transformations. There are 7 of them:

#1

Cars appear? - YES
Safe Zones: - Edges of the stage.

#2

Cars appear? - YES
Safe Zones: - Edges of the stage.
Note: - The cars CAN hit you on the platforms, though it is rare.

#3

Cars appear? - NO
Safe Zones: - Anywhere.
Note: - This transformation is off of the track, so no cars will ever pass by.

#3.5

Note: - Not a transformation, but the wall of the track ALWAYS appears between transformations 3 and 4. Just wanted to make a note of it.

#4

Cars appear? - NO
Safe Zones: - Anywhere.
Note: - Again, this transformation is off to the side of the track.

#5

Cars appear? - YES
Safe Zones: - Edges of the stage.
Note: - The cars CAN hit you on the platforms. Also, the cars can be passing by BEFORE you get to this transformation.

#6

Cars appear? - YES
Safe Zones: - Edges of the stage.
Note: - Behind the 3rd vertical lines on each side are the general boundaries for being safe.

#7

Cars appear? - YES
Safe Zones: - Top platform.
Note: - The cars CAN hit you on the bottom two platforms. Also, the cars do not have hitboxes for the first second or so that they appear.

General Stage Information

Transformations last anywhere from 6-9 seconds, depending on the transformation(timed from when the moving platform stops to when the blinking indicator arrow first appears). If Cars pass during one of the transformations, the stage will wait for them to pass before continuing on. The time the cars are visible(time depends on which transformation you are on) gets added to the original stage transformation time(6-9 seconds).

Cars passing appears to be random, since the cars are following the same loop of the racetrack the entire time. They don't always appear at the same time during any given transformation(I.E. They can appear right as you arrive at a transformation or appear 4 seconds into the transformation).

I did a 20 minute loop of the stage, taking note of which transformations were stopped at and when the cars appeared.

Results, separated by lap:

(Stage started passing through the Start Line, transformation #1)
2 - Cars
5 - No Cars
6 - Cars

3 - No Cars
4 - No Cars
--- Cars pass underneath on the way
5 - Cars(the last of the pack)
6 - No Cars

3 - No Cars
4 - No Cars
6 - Cars

2 - Cars
5 - No Cars
6 - Cars
7 - No Cars

4 - No Cars
---Small amount of Cars seen passing underneath
5 - No Cars
7 - Cars

1 - No Cars
2 - Cars
3 - No Cars
5 - No Cars
6 - Cars

2 - Cars
4 - No Cars
5 - No Cars
6 - Cars

3 - No Cars
---Cars Pass Underneath on the way
5 - Cars Finish
6 - No Cars
7 - Cars

2 - Cars
6 - Cars

1 - Cars
---Cars can be seen passing around 4, finish before 5.
5 - No Cars
6 - No Cars
7 - Cars

1 - No Cars
3 - No Cars
---Cars can be seen passing by.
4 - No Cars
5 - No Cars

2 - Cars
3 - No Cars
4 - No Cars
7 - Cars

1 - No Cars

Occurrence of each transformation:

Transformation 1 --- 4 times, 1 Cars / 3 No Cars
Transformation 2 --- 6 times, 6 Cars / 0 No Cars
Transformation 3 --- 6 times, 0 Cars / 6 No Cars
Transformation 4 --- 6 times, 0 Cars / 6 No Cars
Transformation 5 --- 9 times, 2 Cars / 7 No Cars
Transformation 6 --- 9 times, 6 Cars / 3 No Cars
Transformation 7 --- 5 times, 4 Cars / 1 No Cars

That should do it methinks.
 

Xyro77

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good, so now that this info is out. learn it and quit crying about how you cant win on this stage cause of the cars........inui
 

Amazing Ampharos

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A pedantic fix to this would be that the stage's name is "Port Town Aero Dive" (there is no "r" in the final word). Otherwise, this is good data to have out; I was wondering when you'd post it.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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this stage sucks for tourney play
I notice that most people who want to ban it come from regions that ban it (so they have no or little experience on it) while most of its defenders come from regions that allow it (so they do have experience on it). If it were really so awful, wouldn't you expect volumes of complaints by the regular participants at the tournaments that allow it?
 

Dragoomba

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People with the lack of memorization skills shouldn't be the cause of the banning of a stage. I never though memorizing the patterns could actually be this easy to learn.
 

OmegaXF

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This is good but did you do an analysis on Racer X?
Racer X=That one last car that comes EXTREMELY late after the rest of the cars race buy. He is one of the most funniest irritating most spectacular thing on Port Town! lol No seriously analyze Racer x :)
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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Wow... that's an incredible amount of work.... You know, when you think about if, if players are capable of checking where the obsticals are go ing to come from, as well as having ways of dodging them, why is this stage banned again? Transformations affecting play, as well as a perpetual stage hazard, of course, but it doesn't seem like anyone is crippled by this. It just takes a little dodging to get to the safe zone, and then you get right back to killing eachother on the main platform. Reminds me of the old cartoons where two people would be on hand-rail-carts, punching eachother when the tracks get close, but pumping the carts to wait out when seperated. :p But seriously, if the safe areas are reachable and then the main-platform is still accessable, why exactly is this stage bad again? And to the person who says "'CUZ IT FAVRZ FLIN PEPS N GANON SUX HRE", what about Rainbow Cruise? Minus the fact that this stage damages you (which seems like it would help speed up matches if you were able to smash your enemy into the cars and let them get run-over), it's pretty much the same type of stage... lots of dodging and moving to specific spots to avoid being koed...

But since I forgot to say it, nice job on doing all of this.
 

BRoomer
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Port town is the same thing as melee's mute city. It's the same concept.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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There are obviously some character biases. Diddy Kong is pretty fantastic here as the classic example, and at least in my opinion (I don't know if anyone else thinks this), it's a well above average stage for Mr. Game & Watch. I really don't think I'd want to use Marth here, to go the other way.

Still, the character bias is definitely well within counterpick range. Most of the arguments to ban this stage center around how powerful the cars are and, I can only presume, a claim that they add too much variance to matchups. I used to think this stage was pretty bad, but after playing on it a lot I've concluded (as this analysis supports) that the cars are very predictable and avoidable.
 

Commander_Beef

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There are obviously some character biases. Diddy Kong is pretty fantastic here as the classic example, and at least in my opinion (I don't know if anyone else thinks this), it's a well above average stage for Mr. Game & Watch. I really don't think I'd want to use Marth here, to go the other way.

Still, the character bias is definitely well within counterpick range. Most of the arguments to ban this stage center around how powerful the cars are and, I can only presume, a claim that they add too much variance to matchups. I used to think this stage was pretty bad, but after playing on it a lot I've concluded (as this analysis supports) that the cars are very predictable and avoidable.
Interesting Ampharos..
Diddy Kong, Mr. Game & Watch AND Marth can all be very formidable for this stage. I change my mind there. But seriously, when is this stage ever a counterpick anymore?
 

Amazing Ampharos

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Sadly it's banned almost everywhere.

Also, I was saying that it would be a bad Marth stage. His recovery relies on the ledge existing more than most, he isn't good at exploiting the pass-through floor, he doesn't have kill move problems the cars help, and he generally doesn't like the flat terrain. It's actually rare as a good G&W and bad Marth stage since G&W doesn't really care about the missing ledge and loves the pass through floor, in sharp contrast to Marth. G&W's long throwing animations only do him favors when it comes to the cars as well.
 

Eternal Yoshi

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I REALLY wished that the cars weren't so strong. I can already imagine Kirbicides and Dededecides on this stage: just eat and don't move.

Then again, that can work for anyone with high damage.

Other than the cars, I think this could be a good CP.
 

Circa

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I REALLY wished that the cars weren't so strong. I can already imagine Kirbicides and Dededecides on this stage: just eat and don't move.

Then again, that can work for anyone with high damage.

Other than the cars, I think this could be a good CP.
I actually see the cars as more of a benefit than a hindrance, honestly. It rewards those who know it, and hinders those who don't with the inclusion of cars that can **** those stupid or unfortunate enough to get caught in their path. If for nothing else, I see it being a legitimate CP just from that standpoint.

It's good for those who like to gamble their chances too (although those players are few and far between) if that person happens to be using a "pressure character", or uses a style that deals with a lot of pressuring. Just get on the same side as your opponent when the cars come through, and keep on brawling. Chances are, your opponent will be taken off guard at least the first time you do it, so you may be in for a free stock.

Just some thoughts...I do love this stage though, so I might be biased. I'm just glad I live in an area where it's not always banned. :)
 

Kief

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Lol. I honestly couldn't care less about the cars. The points you guys made about them were spot on. Only reason I don't play there is its completely unwinnable for Link considering the no edges on the main platform. I'd rather play on the right side of Frigate the whole match. In fact, I had previously thought that the absence of ledges was the main reason that it was banned. The cars fit into the same category as Pirate Ships canons.

Anyway, nice job, Kirk. I must also say that i'm a Kirk fanboy. I love watching your Ike. Notably, that "absurb combo" was flippin amazing. :chuckle:
 

TEECO

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Strawhat/Luffy would approve the **** out of this thread.

Good job on the Analysis man, I think this stage should be legal. Brinstar is legal, that sorry excuse for a CP.... JUNGLE JAPES is legal, the water kills people at any percentage..
 

IYM!

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is not strange than the cars can hit you, some cars, like black Bull (black car) is taller than others,

wild boar, fire stingray, death anchor, can hit you trought the plataforms, this is normal,

also is usefull know the atributes for ezch machine ( nintendo was smart to consider the weight of each car)

for ex:

black bull weighs 2340, for that reason is the stronger hitting
this ship can kill Link at 40 %


Wonder Wasp can kill Link in 65 % because this car weight 900 Kg
 

Amazing Ampharos

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I don't think any actually hit harder than others, and honestly I'd be surprised if they had any different hitbox properties from each other (each car may have a different "center point" or something like that). I did calculations to find the hitbox values for the cars on Port Town Aero Dive, and I found this:

Base damage: 14
Knockback growth: 64
Base knockback: 46
Angle: 5A

Of course, all of those values are in hex (so it would be 20% damage, 100 Knockback Growth, 70 Base Knockback, and 90 degree angle in decimal). We never actually found the specific place this is stored, but all the math exactly indicates those values. If you want to see how early PTAD cars kill arbitrary characters, you could just hack some random utilt or something to hit with those knockback parameters (due to the way I calculated it, not found it, I don't know the lesser properties like SDI multiplier, hitlag multiplier, element, etc.).
 

IYM!

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in many fights I could see that the weight of the cars affects the power stroke, the twin norita dont kill very early in comparation with wil boar or fire stingray

also im not sure if the body class of cars also give more power at hit

twin norita is body class E
Fire stingray body class A
 

PK-ow!

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The cars* can hit you on transformation #7's top platform. So it appears there is at least one time when there's no safe zone.
*It may be that just the Black Bull does this.


Oh, and Ganon doesn't really suck hard on PTAD, except against the chars that can just sort of dry hump him (i.e. CG) off of any stage that's as small as Battlefield... so... they can do that anywhere.
Rather, the stage lets Ganon use that spike to reciprocate the issues, and he can sort of take refuge in the cars.
 

IYM!

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i think PTAD is OK, you can get there serious matches, but the inic problem is the central plataform than take you around all stage


it dont have ledges,making a dificult time to :zerosuitsamus:, :ivysaur:, :olimar:, and in lesser extent to :link2:,:lucas:,:shiek:, :samus2:, :toonlink:

also to other characters like :mario2:, :ganondorf: and :popo: without nana
 

Raziek

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Look, the track not having ledges is not really a legitimate argument. It was exactly the same in melee, was tolerated for the same reasons, and because of it, it was a COUNTERPICK. We aren't trying to make the stage neutral, it's supposed to have counterpick elements.
 
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