• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Revolutionizing Wing Play: A short guide on how to use WoI

sagemoon

Smash Lord
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
I. Introduction

Theres been some techs that involve WoI, wing refresh, wing dashing, wing pivot to name a few. I've seen many people use it correctly and many more use them incorrectly. So I'm gonna write a short guide about how I use it.

II. The Basics


The advantages of using wings is that in WoI mode pit has more air mobility than anyone in the game, he can stall his fall or speed up. The disadvantages is that if he gets hit out of it, he does not get any jumps back or the WoI (in most cases) . This will lead to pit dying if he is knocked off the stage.

III. The Wing Refresh


How to do: At any point of the up b, touch the ground. I like to jump, then up b immediately so i start off touching the ground.

What this does is gives pit back all his jumps after he exits WoI, even if he gets hit out of it. (pit will still die if he waits for WoI to deteriorate and does nothing). This is useful because it takes away the only disadvantage that WoI mode has. However its drawback is that it can only be used off the ground or platform.

WoI mode (as its known now) isnt good on stage, so Wing Refresh must be used off stage play. This is normally when pit hits his opponent far off to the blast zone, but not killing. When I use it I normally either
A) attack prematurely to set up for a follow up attack
B) Wait for the airdodge and punish it

If the opponent wont be killed or gimped by it, its normally a better idea to use arrows to rack up percent or put the opponent at a disadvantageous position. A rule of thumb is that if the opponent is high in the air, then use WoI, if they are more horizontal with the stage, use arrows. Its not the same with all characters it all depends on the fall speed / character size / air mobility. Its really hard to explain, its something that will come with experience. Try out using arrows or Wing refresh on different characters and see what works better for you at what heights.

IV. The Wing Dash


How to do: Jump, up b, (direction), down air. What I do is set R to special so I can up b as soon as i leave the ground. The faster you can get the up b off after jumping, the better.

This is what i see most commonly misused. To clear up a couple misconceptions, this is purely a defensive move, not offensive. The wind effect is what makes this useful. Against weak attacks such as metaknights dash attack, It will stop them in their tracks and allow a counter attack. Same thing with aerial attacks (like marios nair). It also out prioritizes most grabs. It can also null out some projectiles. Its really risky to use to actually counter moves, in fact, i suggest just shielding instead. Unless you want to be flashy

The biggest advantage to this is to move back in a flash while still facing towards your opponent. You can wingdash back while they're trying to approach, then immediately ftilt to punish the approach. This is how this move should mainly be used.

Theres small things like being able to pick up items from the ground with a wingdash too, I might have missed something, but that means it's probably not important.


V. The Wing Pivot


How to do: Hold the control stick in the opposite direction of the way pit is facing and C-stick forward.

This will cause pit to use a bair out of Woi instead of a fair. The advantages/disadvantages are basically the same as the advantages/disadvantages of the fair/bair.


VI. The Wing Lunge

How to do: Fair or bair out of WoI and pit will lunge in that direction.

This is good for spacing reasons. It kind of gives pits fair/bair an extended hitbox in a way because it hits opponents further away


VII. The Wing Stall/Momentum Canceling


How to do: While in the air, jump and up b.

There isnt really a name for this yet, since it wasnt "discovered", its just a neat way to use WoI.

This will cause pit to stay elevated in the air without rising or falling. This is extremely effective against opponets who react out of habit. They normally wait for you to hit the ground when falling, and take advantage of the frames of vulnerability. What this does is punish them for trying to punish you. Its a way of counter attacking while in air. The drawback of this tech is that if you're hit off of the stage before you touch the ground, you will die.

If you stay towards the center of the stage, then you rarely get hit off. I've found this tech to be really effective recently. It seems to pressure oppoents really well. Also you have the option of simply not doing it, to throw the opponent off. I like it because it constantly keeps your opponent guessing.

Other advantages are those of the wing lunge and wing pivot. It can attack opponents at a distance. If they shield, it will push them back far enough to avoid a shield grab or jab, Also the lag time is quick enough to where you can shield most attacks that can reach you. The only effective way to punish this is to powershield, or predict it and hit pit while hes in the air.

I normally do a full hop dair or fair before I use this. This is to keep the opponent backed up, then I have 3 options

A) wing stall
B) do another fair
C) airdodge and retreat backwards.

I hope this short guide helps some of the pit mains out there.
 

Riku00

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
684
Location
Earth
thank you sagemoon this helps me alot. i hope i get to be as good with Pit as you are someday
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Pit's wings have such versatility, this makes him too good ^_^

We should make a vid of this, and if you are, include me in it somehow.

EDIT: I wouldnt make Winglanding COMPLETELY Useless -_-
For you see, I've played a few players often, and they know about me winglunging and wing stalling sometimes, you know that I did this to you sometimes. Some ppl expect me to Winglunge at some point, and then I fake that, wingland instead, and perform a ground attack or grab when possible .

So here's some of my options in situational combat

Starting Up-B from the ground...
-Winglunge: Your standard F-air with a small range boost, can be used to punish a few things, and is OUR counter against Marth and Ike's counter. We cant hit Lucario like that though, due to his move's nature.
-Wingstall: Should some1 think I may Winglunge they may punish me with like a Shieldgrab. So I can wait to punish the punishers, basically.
-WingLanding: There are times when some opponents have pursued me quickly, even when I was in the air, and there are times when I died. At other times, I "Fake" a Winglunge and perform Winglanding to continue movement and sometimes followup with a possible attack, such as a dash attack or a quick SH N-air. I may explain more later.

Risky? Yes, but sometimes it has its rewards.

For my part of Wingdash, It is like me Faking an attempted Winglunge or Wingstall. By using all of these, with mindgames included, it keeps the opponent guessing, and some oppnents have even retreated a bit because of me performing these different Wing movements.
 

teh_pwns_the

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
461
Location
Fort Collins, CO
sage you are to WoI what Undr is to arrows
its fairly amazing and thanks for clearing up some things, i have question though why wingdash mks dash instead of just shield grab it?
 

sagemoon

Smash Lord
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
sometimes mk can dash attack past the shield, but like i said in the guide, in most cases its better to just shield instead of wingdash
 

Seiya7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
198
Location
Houston
hm... so one day in battle i knocked my opponent away then did a wing refresh to go after them for the kill but i missed and they grabbed the edge and i had already used my jumps so i tried to up b and go under battlefield but the WoI was much shorter and i fell into the abyss and my untimely death.

is there a way to prevent this by any chance? or is it invevitable and i should just not do it lol?
 

Seiya7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
198
Location
Houston
well yeh but i had already used my jumps :/

is it possible it lasts shoter after already doing the wing renewal?
 

Lezard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
256
Location
Jamaica
All of this is suppose to be commonsensical. however the wingstall/momentum cancel is way more effect than it sound
 

sagemoon

Smash Lord
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
hm... so one day in battle i knocked my opponent away then did a wing refresh to go after them for the kill but i missed and they grabbed the edge and i had already used my jumps so i tried to up b and go under battlefield but the WoI was much shorter and i fell into the abyss and my untimely death.

is there a way to prevent this by any chance? or is it invevitable and i should just not do it lol?
Theres a certain timer on the up b, if you up b, then use up b again right after, then the 2nd will only go for a short distance. WoI will refresh fully in about the time it takes for you to use all three jumps.
All of this is suppose to be commonsensical. however the wingstall/momentum cancel is way more effect than it sound
Yeah pretty much all of this has been covered throughout time except for the last. Its mainly a guide for newer players or players who are getting off path from the basics.

besides Marth and G&W who can up-b out of shield, whos els should you be alot more cautious using Wing Lungging against?
_
_
_
_
GWs up b wont hurt in the first few frames, so it's perfectly safe to use against GW. Bowser and DK can also up b out of shield to punish, though you may be able to shield poke depending on how well you space and how much their shield is deteriorated.
 

Seiya7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
198
Location
Houston
ah so theres a timer on it i did not know this thanks sage ill experiment with this so i get the hang of it
 

Kyuubi9t

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
244
Location
Pennsylvania
ah so theres a timer on it i did not know this thanks sage ill experiment with this so i get the hang of it
WoI usually lasts about 4.5 seconds, if you use two of them within 3? seconds of each other, it will only last about 1.5 seconds

Sage, thanks for bringing this to the forefront. I think that wingdashing is vital in advancing your pit game from basic to advanced, and standing a chance against the some of the most beastly characters in the game. Im sure many Pits will reach an epiphany upon reading the OP.

edit: Sage, i think you should mention divebombing, it is an important use of WoI and can flow into wingstall so maybe in that section? Just a suggestion, I already like this short guide the way it is.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
What Kyuubi9t just told you is called Wing Fatigue. By using WOI once and doing it again quickly after, the wings cant last as long as they used to, and this can limit you greatly.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
Ah sage thanks a ton.

I already knew how to wing renew but I've always wondered how people cancel the WoI so they can wing dash. Helps a lot I'll go practice =)
 

teh_pwns_the

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
461
Location
Fort Collins, CO
hmm to stall with your wings then go into a wing lunge, can you still be fast falling cause whenever i do this the WoI seems to not stop my momentum enough to throw off any hit my opponent had planned for me?

poorly phrased question what i meant to say is, can you fast fall into a wing stall and still have it stop your momentum enough to be effective?
 

Cha0tic NiGhTmArE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
296
Location
Lakeway(at least 30 minuites from anywhere), TX
GWs up b wont hurt in the first few frames, so it's perfectly safe to use against GW. Bowser and DK can also up b out of shield to punish, though you may be able to shield poke depending on how well you space and how much their shield is deteriorated.
ah sweet thanks Sage..ive been needing that info..i've been kinda scared of G & W's up b out of shield, but now that i know my G& W matchup will be legit
 

Lezard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
256
Location
Jamaica
That ones so annoying because it hits you like 20 times for 7 damage :(
after you jump fair then wing stall you can do ethier fair, bair or wingland with the downward momentum Hower there is one other thing that is extremely uselful againts oppnent who try blocking are jump of the ground and th is to FOOTSTOOL yes? i havent master it yet but i think you should expriement with this its very easy to footstool out of Woi

Lets see who first master this tech
 

sagemoon

Smash Lord
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
after you jump fair then wing stall you can do ethier fair, bair or wingland with the downward momentum Hower there is one other thing that is extremely uselful againts oppnent who try blocking are jump of the ground and th is to FOOTSTOOL yes? i havent master it yet but i think you should expriement with this its very easy to footstool out of Woi

Lets see who first master this tech
not that great of an idea. A footstool will only leave you more vulnerable for a longer time, plus it cant go through attacks.
 

Lezard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
256
Location
Jamaica
not that great of an idea. A footstool will only leave you more vulnerable for a longer time, plus it cant go through attacks.
yeah you are right becuse i pull this off 3 this in a match awhile ago and it seem kinda useless becuse u go way up in the air nowever its still usefull for opponent that try to leave the grounf forcefull. But can u not footstool and dair are bair after?
 

Cha0tic NiGhTmArE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
296
Location
Lakeway(at least 30 minuites from anywhere), TX
yeah you are right becuse i pull this off 3 this in a match awhile ago and it seem kinda useless becuse u go way up in the air nowever its still usefull for opponent that try to leave the grounf forcefull. But can u not footstool and dair are bair after?
what is pros and cons of using wing dashing alot? compared to not at all or very little and and is alot or sparingly better?
 

Lezard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
256
Location
Jamaica
what is pros and cons of using wing dashing alot? compared to not at all or very little and and is alot or sparingly better?
Pros and Cons
Pros
Quote:Dash backward (effective for spacing)
It has a push effective
-Its istantanous
-It negates and push back most attacks
-The effect is invisble which make prediction meaningless
-cancel out most projecile
Very good for pacing
Atomaticly tech went hit out of the start up frames

Cons
Quote:Limited rage for spacing
some attacks start up frames can go through it like Dk Fair, IkeFair, Cannonorf Fair
Lag after WingDash if not done correctly
 

DemonicTrilogy

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
1,152
Location
That's for me to know
what is pros and cons of using wing dashing alot? compared to not at all or very little and and is alot or sparingly better?
Pros:
Can mess up the opponent's spacing if they try to space strictly on the very outside of their hitbox
Gives you a lot of time afterward to dash and punish if it does make an attack miss.
If hit in it, you still have your jumps and all
Cons:
You are easily hit in it if the opponent adapts to this and decides to just get in your face while attacking so that your wingdash won't push them out in time
It's not good against projectiles unless the person is being REALLY predictable (highly unlikely)
It sucks against dashing attacks.

Wingdashing is a good concept but it shouldn't be used a lot. It is a good surprise once in a while but you shouldn't rely on it for dodging.
 

Lezard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
256
Location
Jamaica
Pros:

Cons:

It's not good against projectiles unless the person is being REALLY predictable (highly unlikely)
It sucks against dashing attacks.

Wingdashing is a good concept but it shouldn't be used a lot. It is a good surprise once in a while but you shouldn't rely on it for dodging.
What!? i agree with rest but i dont agree with non of these ideas,

Dash Attact is a no brainer dash attack doesn't work against me nobody try becasue its a gurantee that will punish them

most projectile are very easy to parry i even consistently parry Zeld side b not to mention mario and falco

Do u know what pacing is? thats something thats has been done alot in Melee wingdash can use to pace an opponent which make it a very good tool
 

KY_Des

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
775
Location
Wichita, KS
Thank God for you Sagemoon. I was really getting tired of ppl trying to tell me that wingdashing is a good approach.

There's one thing about wingdashing ppl really need to realize. It gets you out of attack range faster than rolling, giving you time to counter while they're in cooldown lag.

Pro - Gets you a safe distance from your opponent
Con - You're often too far to attack them immediately after

That's why it's better to shield sometimes. If you shield, you can nair OoS or shield grab. Somethin for yall to think about. If you have questions, ask Sagemoon, not me lol.
 

Lezard

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
256
Location
Jamaica
Thank God for you Sagemoon. I was really getting tired of ppl trying to tell me that wingdashing is a good approach.

There's one thing about wingdashing ppl really need to realize. It gets you out of attack range faster than rolling, giving you time to counter while they're in cooldown lag.

Pro - Gets you a safe distance from your opponent
Con - You're often too far to attack them immediately after

That's why it's better to shield sometimes. If you shield, you can nair OoS or shield grab. Somethin for yall to think about. If you have questions, ask Sagemoon, not me lol.
That the basic
 

DemonicTrilogy

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
1,152
Location
That's for me to know
What!? i agree with rest but i dont agree with non of these ideas,

Dash Attact is a no brainer dash attack doesn't work against me nobody try becasue its a gurantee that will punish them

most projectile are very easy to parry i even consistently parry Zeld side b not to mention mario and falco

Do u know what pacing is? thats something thats has been done alot in Melee wingdash can use to pace an opponent which make it a very good tool
If someone goes at you and you are probable to reacting with a wingdash, you are going to be punished into combos this way. Wingdashing is slower than pacing so it doesn't take the place of it.
 
Top Bottom