Hybrid Air Dodge (HAD) *Thread is CLOSED!-- For Ever*

Hybrid Air Dodge (HAD):​

Code:

Hybrid Air Dodge (90 lines) [Phantom Wings]
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 00000014
92210003 00000068
92210004 00000070
92210006 0000007C
92210009 00000018
58010000 00000088
92210007 00000064
92210008 00000058
48001004 00000024
92210005 0000000C
48001004 00000020
92210004 00000014
4A001004 00000000
32000018 00000000
4A001006 00000000
30000038 00000021
4A001002 00000000
36000040 41000000
4A001003 00000000
9221000A 00000038
9221000B 0000003C
4A001005 00000000
3000000C 00000000
1400000C 00000001
9421000A 00000010
9421000B 00000014
4A001004 00000000
14000014 00000000
E2000001 00000000
4A001005 00000000
9221000A 00000010
9221000B 00000014
86A0000A 40000000
86A0000B 40000000
4A001007 00000000
9421000A 00000008
4A001008 00000000
9421000B 0000000C
4A001002 00000000
34000041 41000000
36000040 42000000
4A001007 00000000
14000008 00000000
4A001008 00000000
1400000C 3E000000
34000041 41C00000
4A000000 805A0100
9221000A 00000000
4A001002 00000000
9001000B 00000040
8891000B 0000000A
34000041 42100000
4A001004 00000000
14000018 00000000
E2000005 00000000
4A000000 805A0100
9221000A 00000000
4A001004 00000000
36000014[COLOR="Red"] [B]42000000[/B][/COLOR]
9001000B 00000014
8891000B 0000000A
4A001006 00000000
32000038 00000021
4A001004 00000000
14000018 00000000
E2000001 00000000
34000015 [COLOR="Cyan"][I]41FFFFFF[/I][/COLOR]
4A001009 00000000
3000014C 00000000

4A001004 00000000
14000018 00000001
E2000002 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

[B]Supports:[/B]
-A single Melee Air Dodge until you make contact with the ground again.
-A timer delay that will force you to wait a few frames if you're Melee Air Dodge is interrupted([I]Wavedash[/I]).
-Single direction Air Dodge.
-Everything that the original Melee Air Dodge Code had.

Note: For modifying the timer delay for the code, all you need to do is change the Bold value to the amount of time(in floating point) and the Italicized value the Bold value -1.

Disclaimer:

The inclusion of wavedashing in Brawl is the most controversial battle to date. As of now, most of the Brawl+ community are not backing HAD on the basis that it enables wavedashing. In addition, said people are against changing the air dodge mechanics in most every way as they are in favor of Brawl's default aerial dodge system. It should be known, that there is no evidence to support either side, to show that HAD works wonders or that it's outright terrible because the code simply isn't here yet. Only once we've tested the code can we accurately analyze it. This thread serves as a debate thread with which both sides can argue their points.


Stacked wavedashes are no longer possible! Phantom Wings has placed a timer on wavedashing, so that one can't Melee AD again, thus wavedashing again, until the timer has been met, which is only x amount of frames. If you attempt to Melee AD too early, trying to wavedash before the timer depletes you'll simply do a Brawl AD.

This code is great! What do you guys think!?

•PW said that if the code needs any sort of bug fix or tweaking he'd fix it. For example, if we decide that the timer is too long or too short he'd be willing to adjust it for us.

The code is 90 lines long, though it seems to share a similar pattern with Phantom's other codes, and they've all be shortened due to this pattern. Hopefully it's possible to shorten this quite a bit!

Q&A!

Q: Why do I keep shielding in midst of the wavedash? That needs fixing.
A: Actually, it doesn't need "fixing." If your shield is popping up during the wavedash your input and timing are off. It's not too difficult to get use to, but it does merit some practice. My shield never pops up anymore, practice!

Q: Does HAD make the recovery easy due to the "fourth jump."
A: I'm not sure who put it like this, but there is no "fourth jump." When you Melee AD upwards there's a delay after the AD. This delay is long enough that if you spam up+B you won't be able to execute your recovery until you've dropped below the point at which you originally Melee Air Dodged upward. Basically, you won't gain any height from the dodge upwards, you may as well have just recovered. Sure, HAD will make the air game more interesting, but it definately can't be considered a "fourth jump," it's simply not.


Thanks guys!

I'm just curious about something:

Is hitting the ground the only way to refresh Melee Air Dodge? What about getting hit?

If so, how would things like Bowsers' Klaw Jump or ISJR factor in? Since those refresh jumps, would they also refresh Melee Air Dodge? One would think so, but I'm no hacker.

Well, for one, the hybrid system you're proposing still has one problem: wavedashing would still break the balance of the game (if what you're saying is correct). From the sounds of it, WD'ing and nerfing the air game were the two primary concerns, and a hybrid system only solves one of those problems. A hybrid system would also, no doubt, be LONGER than the MAD code would be, which isn't good for Brawl+; from the sounds of it, there are still codes to make that are more important than MAD/HAD. Personally, I'm against it; this is Brawl+, not Brawl+Melee. I don't really see why MAD is at all necessary for Brawl+; hell, just program a back/forwardstep button that moves the character based on friction or something. It'd probably be less lines, and it would be something new, not old.

pure_awesome said:

I'm just curious about something:

Is hitting the ground the only way to refresh Melee Air Dodge? What about getting hit?

If so, how would things like Bowsers' Klaw Jump or ISJR factor in? Since those refresh jumps, would they also refresh Melee Air Dodge? One would think so, but I'm no hacker.

Click to expand...

Yes, it'd reset each time you touch the ground, even in cases where the game thinks you've touched the ground when you haven't, such as klawhopping. That's no different than if you aerial dodged each time you klawhopped.

Jack Kieser said:

Well, for one, the hybrid system you're proposing still has one problem: wavedashing would still break the balance of the game (if what you're saying is correct). From the sounds of it, WD'ing and nerfing the air game were the two primary concerns, and a hybrid system only solves one of those problems. A hybrid system would also, no doubt, be LONGER than the MAD code would be, which isn't good for Brawl+; from the sounds of it, there are still codes to make that are more important than MAD/HAD. Personally, I'm against it; this is Brawl+, not Brawl+Melee. I don't really see why MAD is at all necessary for Brawl+; hell, just program a back/forwardstep button that moves the character based on friction or something. It'd probably be less lines, and it would be something new, not old.

Click to expand...

Actually, it'd solve both. Wavedashing would not be as forgiving in HAD. You and I don't know how to hack, so we can't make assumptions about code length. Sure it COULD be longer than the MAD code, but who's to say the MAD code can't be shortened anyway? That was one of the earlier codes PW wrote, who's to say he hasn't become exponentially better at coding, and if he visited the code now, he'd do quite a bit different. My point is, you never know. Brawl+ is about taking mechanics from both 64, and Melee and improving Brawl. This new aerial system, this new mechanic, would improve Brawl+.






OOPS DOUBLE POST

Orca said:

Actually, it'd solve both. Wavedashing would not be as forgiving in HAD. You and I don't know how to hack, so we can't make assumptions about code length. Sure it COULD be longer than the MAD code, but who's to say the MAD code can't be shortened anyway? That was one of the earlier codes PW wrote, who's to say he hasn't become exponentially better at coding, and if he visited the code now, he'd do quite a bit different. My point is, you never know. Brawl+ is about taking mechanics from both 64, and Melee and improving Brawl. This new aerial system, this new mechanic, would improve Brawl+.

Click to expand...

Wavedashing is not a mechanic. Its a physics exploit in melee's air dodging system and it should stay that way. We don't need all these unorthodox ways of movement to ruin the game.

I also don't want everyone to use the MAD as a form of recovery after being hit to live longer

I am against this...

I am 100% against the Hybrid Air Dodge. The point of direction air dodging is that it gives you a little recovery boost. If you aren't gimped afterwards it defeats it's purpose.. that and wavedashing is unneeded and would alienate potential brawl+ players...

edit: you guys don't realize how bad wavedashing ALREADY ruins brawl+'s reputation. the honest truth is, if brawl+ is going to go anywhere, it really needs to bury the wavedashing hatchet. otherwise, the only people you'll see playing it are melee veterans. frankly, people will not touch brawl+ if it is seen as some melee 2.0, and no matter how hard you fight, the brawl+ project will never live that down. we will have all these great hacks, mods and changes, but the wavedashing is what would kill the project.

we're only changing stuff in brawl to make it less defensive/campy. there's no need to change EVERYTHING that ended up different from melee to brawl. there's nothing wrong with the airdodging system currently, its not broken. you don't have to fix it.

how about a mechanic that makes it so you can only do it later in the jump like a few too many frames too late after the jump for wavedashing. or maybe only at and after the peak of your jump? if you can have a SINGLE dodge and it is a MAD but is tweeked to absolutely prevent wavedashing (not necessarily wavelanding though but IMO thats different) then im for it, otherwise, im against it (which, do to coding restrictions, probably means im against it)

by the way, why is the modified code restricted to 256 characters? is there any way that can be changed?

polyopulis, it seems the main reason that Orca is for HAD is because he wants wavedashing.

The idea of how it would work sounds odd to me. Is only the first on the melee airdodge? Do you have no choice to do the brawl airdodge on the first one?

polyopulis said:

by the way, why is the modified code restricted to 256 characters? is there any way that can be changed?

Click to expand...

I would also like to know this, as it has confused me. In the Gameshark days, this was not an issue with memory hot swapping, so I would assume it is just an issue with the Ocarina program. Could we not just try and get someone to make a new one that fixes this limitation?

Also, I am dead set AGAINST having the Melee Air-dodge in any way, shape or form in Brawl+. Wavedashing is what ruined Melee for me, and it's what will ruin Brawl+ for me if it is allowed to slither its way in.

Oshtoby said:

Also, I am dead set AGAINST having the Melee Air-dodge in any way, shape or form in Brawl+. Wavedashing is what ruined Melee for me, and it's what will ruin Brawl+ for me if it is allowed to slither its way in.

Click to expand...

yea, we don't need this game to be about being able to exploit the exploits better than your opponent.

Why does everyone HATE Wavedash now? I understand not wanting it in Brawl+ due to code length or the laglessness of Brawl's WD, but where is this hate of wavedash PERIOD coming from?

It makes me sad...

Jack Kieser said:

I don't really see why MAD is at all necessary for Brawl+; hell, just program a back/forwardstep button that moves the character based on friction or something. It'd probably be less lines, and it would be something new, not old.

Click to expand...

Omg this sounds like the best idea I have seen yet for handling the ground game. Could a coder look into how viable this is? Maybe they can modify the roll movements to do this with a different button trigger?

Bleh, as I've said in nearly every Brawl+ thread, WD doesn't really fit Brawl well.
So yeah, I'm against it.

HAD is officially going to be made.

metaXzero said:

Why does everyone HATE Wavedash now? I understand not wanting it in Brawl+ due to code length or the laglessness of Brawl's WD, but where is this hate of wavedash PERIOD coming from?

It makes me sad...

Click to expand...

no one hates wavedashing.




ok. this is stupid. the points against wavedashing in brawl have been brought up, debated, and reiterated probably 200 times now. i really am confused as to WHY we need a "hybrid air dodge" in the first place. honestly, you don't even air dodge more than once in the air with gravity (and it looks like brawl+ is going to have some), and the whole point of one directional air dodge is a little boost to help you recover.. it's a trade off for using your regular recovery. this whole HAD business is a cover up... by giving people more air dodges which is exactly CONTRARY to the point of a single air dodge, you validate your need for wavedashing.... that's it. you're just trying to make people who cry about having one air dodge happy.


what's even MORE perplexing about this whole ordeal is that after THREE enormous threads which discussed wavedashing in and out which ALL ended with the anti-brawl wavedashing side bringing up argument after argument and pretty much sealing the deal on the topic, orca still took it upon himself to ask for a hybrid air dodge claiming that "MANY" people have been wanting it.

now i don't care if you use it or not. at this point, i don't think any amount of debating would get you to believe otherwise. but if you and your phantom horde of brawl+ players want wavedashing so bad, then use it. but if you try to play off that the brawl+ community has been eagerly waiting for this code just so you can get your friends that hate the one air dodge to play with wavedashing on while PW could have been working on something else.. i think that's really unfair... especially to those of us who want this project to go somewhere besides our rooms..

in the future, please try to think about what you ask for. are you helping the community.. or yourself?

^First page of this topic fooled me. Talk of WDing "ruining the game" (and Melee) and seemingly "exploits are bad BAD"...

I am in favor of either BAD or HAD.... I simply want which one is best for the scene in the end. BAD may have been best, but the new codes like buffer may change things. I would like us all to get our hands on a well made HAD and give it a fair shot. That said if it's as broken as MAD I will oppose it.

metaXzero said:

^First page of this topic fooled me. Talk of WDing "ruining the game" (and Melee) and seemingly "exploits are bad BAD"...

Click to expand...

I think it's just frustration people have of the continued beating of the dead horse which is trying to implement WD into Brawl+.
I don't hate or have anything against WD, except in Brawl.

Osi said:

I am in favor of either BAD or HAD.... I simply want which one is best for the scene in the end. BAD may have been best, but the new codes like buffer may change things. I would like us all to get our hands on a well made HAD and give it a fair shot. That said if it's as broken as MAD I will oppose it.

Click to expand...

it will be MAD with infinite air dodges.. meaning it's even more broken.

Jiangjunizzy said:

it will be MAD with infinite air dodges.. meaning it's even more broken.

Click to expand...

Yea I would not like to see that... the HAD I always had in mind was MAD with up B enabled after air dodge with a minor lag on the WD.

Jiangjunizzy said:

no one hates wavedashing.




ok. this is stupid. the points against wavedashing in brawl have been brought up, debated, and reiterated probably 200 times now. i really am confused as to WHY we need a "hybrid air dodge" in the first place. honestly, you don't even air dodge more than once in the air with gravity (and it looks like brawl+ is going to have some), and the whole point of one directional air dodge is a little boost to help you recover.. it's a trade off for using your regular recovery. this whole HAD business is a cover up... by giving people more air dodges which is exactly CONTRARY to the point of a single air dodge, you validate your need for wavedashing.... that's it. you're just trying to make people who cry about having one air dodge happy.


what's even MORE perplexing about this whole ordeal is that after THREE enormous threads which discussed wavedashing in and out which ALL ended with the anti-brawl wavedashing side bringing up argument after argument and pretty much sealing the deal on the topic, orca still took it upon himself to ask for a hybrid air dodge claiming that "MANY" people have been wanting it.

now i don't care if you use it or not. at this point, i don't think any amount of debating would get you to believe otherwise. but if you and your phantom horde of brawl+ players want wavedashing so bad, then use it. but if you try to play off that the brawl+ community has been eagerly waiting for this code just so you can get your friends that hate the one air dodge to play with wavedashing on while PW could have been working on something else.. i think that's really unfair... especially to those of us who want this project to go somewhere besides our rooms..

in the future, please try to think about what you ask for. are you helping the community.. or yourself?

Click to expand...

First off, I'll start by asking you to remove your head from your anal canal. Yes, you're correct, there have been NUMEROUS discussions with regards to MAD. The majority of those topics ended in favor of no MAD on the basis that people came to agree that MAD, as in the current code, didn't work well in Brawl+. This was the case for a few reasons, line space, nerfing of the aerial game, and wavedashes that were too good, wavedashes that were stackable. Even the people who were for MAD agree after a while that they understood the problems. So everyone agreed to disagree.

Perhaps I've missed something, but, the majority of those discussions ended with the intent of a HAD system. Must I go digging through a sea of posts to get this information? The people who gave up on MAD, on the basis of the flaws with the code, didn't simply give up on MAD. THey were still for it, but, wanted a tweaked version of it. These people agreed that HAD would be better.

This is not some scheme I've cooked up to get my way, if you're not for it, then by all means play the way you'd like to. I asked for the code to be made on the basis that there WERE many people who were interested in a HAD code. Not to mention that it was a code listed on the agenda-- apparently I wasn't the only one who wanted it right? Wouldn't Kupo have asked for it at some point anyway because it's part of the agenda? Or perhaps he posted it there to make people believe he actually cared about it, that he cared to actually have it made.

Everything that has been brought up that shows how bad wavedashing is in Brawl is subject to the old MAD code. So why is this such a problem to you? People argue that wavedashing isn't for Brawl when none of the codes we're making are. In addition, it's not some lame fanboy-esque thing that serves no purpose, it's to improve gameplay. The reason that many people whined about MAD before was that wavedashing dominated approaches, there was no lag, etc. Now we have a chance to correct those "wrongs" balancing the technique, and you shoot me down?

You guys are rediculous. Really. Where are those of you who "flip-flopped?" Those of you who were once for MAD, but then wanted HAD, or better yet, where are those of you who were intrigued by HAD the entire time? Are there none of you left? Have you lost your voice? Just because a few people spoke against it doesn't mean their right. Just that they agree with each other.

In the end, I'm happy to report that for those of you interested in a Hybrid Air Dodge system, it's on its way!

This honestly seems like a terrible idea. It's going to bring back Wavedashing, and it's going to be a huge code.

Jiangjunizzy said:

it will be MAD with infinite air dodges.. meaning it's even more broken.

Click to expand...

How do you figure? BAD = infinite air dodges and that's not a big deal. This is the SAME thing only the first of which will be MAD.

Also, those of you who are saying this will be a long code.. sure it could be.. however, half the reason the MAD code was so long was because there are a TON of extra lines to make it so you can't do anything after the air dodge. Phantom Wings said there's a ton he can take out. So who knows how long the code will be in the end.

The reason that many people whined about MAD before was that wavedashing dominated approaches, there was no lag, etc. Now we have a chance to correct those "wrongs" balancing the technique, and you shoot me down?

Click to expand...

except you didn't ask to correct those wrongs, all you asked for from PW was the MAD but with a BAD tacked on afterwards. you didn't ask to tweak the length of the air dodge, or to add traction, or to reduce stacking. it's going to be the exact same thing, except with more air dodges afterward.

edit: i was wrong about you asking him to fix MAD. you wanted him to add landing lag.. what? how is that going to work?

Orca said:

HAD is officially going to be made.

Click to expand...

Thank God
And of course the Brawl players are going to be against wavedash lol
Just like how all the casual players were always against wavedash even in melee lol
If we are building this to be a "competitive" game then it should not matter what the casual players think imo lmao
we should build this game to have the most depth and be as competitive as possible and thats it.
Also I think wavedash does wonders for the balance of the game.
It is a HUGEEE buff for the lower tier characters. When the HAD airdodge code is made I will definitely be using it regards of what the brawl players think lol

Honestly, the debate hasn't even been won by WD people that it actually adds more depth to the game.
I'm not convinced, and I still say it homogenizes movement.
I will continue to unless this WD is actually not broken.

And um, the fact most competitive players don't want a wavedash in Brawl+ means what?^^

Orca said:

How do you figure? BAD = infinite air dodges and that's not a big deal. This is the SAME thing only the first of which will be MAD.

Also, those of you who are saying this will be a long code.. sure it could be.. however, half the reason the MAD code was so long was because there are a TON of extra lines to make it so you can't do anything after the air dodge. Phantom Wings said there's a ton he can take out. So who knows how long the code will be in the end.

Click to expand...

I didn't know all the air dodges after the first would revert to BAD.... that kills off the multiple air dodge arguments in my eyes. Multiple MADs in a row would be horrid, but 1 MAD then a tone of BAD's? I could care less if they BAD or not after the MAD lol. My only worry is the stackable nature of it, but also on 0 or 1 buffer it does not seem as broken to me. I'm still in favor of HAD if it can be done in a way where it isn't so overpowering that all other ground techniques are worse than just using HAD for all movements. The part about melee I love was you were forced to use MAD and dash dancing together, so as long as that is there I'm happy. I was a huge fan of brawl+ MAD, and if it didn't stack I'd still use it now that we have the code space thanks to almas (who is a hero to me now!)

Jiangjunizzy said:

except you didn't ask to correct those wrongs, all you asked for from PW was the MAD but with a BAD tacked on afterwards. you didn't ask to tweak the length of the air dodge, or to add traction, or to reduce stacking. it's going to be the exact same thing, except with more air dodges afterward.

Click to expand...

You know what Jiang, I've lost all of my respect for you, to think that I actually had some. If you don't know what you're talking about, quite while you're ahead. Save us all a bit of time. Not only did I post the intents of the HAD code in the OP, which you've apparently skipped, but I've spoken with PW about the necessary changes. For you to proclaim that I'm a liar is inexcusable to me. It's people like you that really piss me off, people that out of their own self-interest attack others, without doing any sort of research, just to find out in the end that they are indeed wrong. Despite discovering their wrong doings, they'll never admit to it because it makes them look weak. Why in hell would I want a HAD code that puts forth all of the problems with the MAD code but in a new form? Are you downright ********?

Don't even reply, you make me sick. You, and the other "haters."

Instead of saying "Can you see if the coder can fix such and such with regards to wavedashing" you foolishly proclaim something as if it were actual "it's going to be the exact same thing, except with more air dodges afterward." Seriously, what a fool.

That's what you get for disregarding the OP. Right?

Osi said:

I didn't know all the air dodges after the first would revert to BAD.... that kills off the multiple air dodge arguments in my eyes. Multiple MADs in a row would be horrid, but 1 MAD then a tone of BAD's? I could care less if they BAD or not after the MAD lol. My only worry is the stackable nature of it, but also on 0 or 1 buffer it does not seem as broken to me. I'm still in favor of HAD if it can be done in a way where it isn't so overpowering that all other ground techniques are worse than just using HAD for all movements. The part about melee I love was you were forced to use MAD and dash dancing together, so as long as that is there I'm happy. I was a huge fan of brawl+ MAD, and if it didn't stack I'd still use it now that we have the code space thanks to almas (who is a hero to me now!)

Click to expand...

Thanks for your support Osi, will you test the code with me when we get it? The wavedashes won't be stackable, there will be a landing lag.

I honestly think the airdodge system in Brawl now is fine. Wavedashing was like a glitch, so there's no need to "nerf" it and bring it back so that it's "balanced." It should just be removed outright, which it has been already, so that's great. It always pissed me off in Melee how easy mastering the wavedash was with practice, and pretty much was the least risky way of approaching for almost every character. In fact, even with NO airdodging (N64 Smash), I fare fine. Airdodging isn't required, it is just some added bonus feature to me.

Characters who had a bad wavedash got torn apart, so I chose to never use it in Melee. It was pretty imbalanced back then and there's no reason for it to return, even in a "weakened" form since it makes a competitive match with the most skillful players look like a bunch of people hopping around like idiots. All that jumping makes matches all look the same and boring to watch (not to mention how QUICKLY your GC controller gets messed up). I really don't think it ought to be implemented again. Just giving my opinion.

why did you make this topic if you had already decided that you were going to get the HAD code made? the majority of people that post in this topic in which you are asking if people want it are against it. then you say 'oh well before this lots of people wanted it so it's happening'. lol

oh well we can still debate whether or not to use it in the official codeset later. not like 'once it's made its officially in'. still, i'm a little confused about the purpose of this topic.

Orca said:

Thanks for your support Osi, will you test the code with me when we get it? The wavedashes won't be stackable, there will be a landing lag.

Click to expand...

I can tell you for sure we will help test it, and in fact one of my crew members(Kuma) is a huge fan of MAD in any form. If I left out a HAD that could add balanced wavedashing to the game... Kuma would kill me hahaha. Mind if I ask how you know it's coming, who is making it, and what changes exactly from MAD can be expected?

petre said:

why did you make this topic if you had already decided that you were going to get the HAD code made? the majority of people that post in this topic in which you are asking if people want it are against it. then you say 'oh well before this lots of people wanted it so it's happening'. lol

oh well we can still debate whether or not to use it in the official codeset later. not like 'once it's made its officially in'. still, i'm a little confused about the purpose of this topic.

Click to expand...

I first requested this code, then, Leafgreen and a few others from these forums jumped in and said no-- we don't want it. They said post a thread polling people... blah blah. I thought for sure more people would be like.. "YAY!" Instead I met a wall, either way. Unexpectedly, Phantom Wings responded to me, and as such he decided to take up the code. I figured I'd need to get majority rule if a hacker was to feel as though it was worth making the code.

Osi said:

Mind if I ask how you know it's coming, who is making it, and what changes exactly from MAD can be expected?

Click to expand...

Phantom Wings said:

Thank you Orca for complying. While it is true I tried to make the MAD code as much like the original melee air dodge code as was requested(I'm personally quite proud of the job I did on it) there are those few differences that give it it's Brawl style that makes it unique.

I've decided to work on the Hybrid Air Dodge code for those who wish to use it. Brawl+ is free for anyone to use in any way they wish - with whichever codes they decide to choose. So I shouldn't only work on codes for one side of the Brawl+ community...

Click to expand...

I still say it homogenizes movement.

Click to expand...

This. If we do something to get wavedashing it would have to be quite a complex system to avoid this. I would be for a sort of wavedash but only if it helps diversify the game.

I am all for adding movement techniques if it makes the game more balanced out, and more diverse. I do not feel wavedashing does the latter. I would rather spend that code adding new movement techniques, or other features, that would increase both than adding wavedashing.

Man... just another reason PW is THE MAN! Seriously he has had such a terrific impact on brawl+ it's remarkable. We should call it Phantom Brawl!

Orca said:

You know what Jiang, I've lost all of my respect for you, to think that I actually had some. If you don't know what you're talking about, quite while you're ahead. Save us all a bit of time. Not only did I post the intents of the HAD code in the OP, which you've apparently skipped, but I've spoken with PW about the necessary changes. For you to proclaim that I'm a liar is inexcusable to me. It's people like you that really piss me off, people that out of their own self-interest attack others, without doing any sort of research, just to find out in the end that they are indeed wrong. Despite discovering their wrong doings, they'll never admit to it because it makes them look weak. Why in hell would I want a HAD code that puts forth all of the problems with the MAD code but in a new form? Are you downright ********?

Don't even reply, you make me sick. You, and the other "haters."

Instead of saying "Can you see if the coder can fix such and such with regards to wavedashing" you foolishly proclaim something as if it were actual "it's going to be the exact same thing, except with more air dodges afterward." Seriously, what a fool.

That's what you get for disregarding the OP. Right?

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holy ****.

i edited my post as soon as i posted that.

i neglected to read the OP, because i firmly believe that no matter what change we make to wavedashing, it will never make it to the standard. too many people hate the idea of it, too many potential players will be lost because of it. it's not worth it.

Every wavedash was different just like in melee... wavedashing in brawl would be dependent on traction which is a character specific movement feature. It is not dependent on dash speed, so this may be where the confusion lies?

Jiangjunizzy said:

i neglected to post in the OP, because i firmly believe that no matter what change we make to wavedashing, it will never make it to the standard. too many people hate the idea of it, too many potential players will be lost because of it. it's not worth it.

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If it adds more to the game without breaking anything, then it should be added(MAD does break some things like the defensive air game and need to dash). I can see where you are coming from, and I would tend to agree the chance a wavedash has to end up in brawl may be small. We still would like to try out all options. No one will know if HAD or BAD is best until we try it out, so lets just see how it goes.

With Dash dance and the increased dash speed Even with the MAD Code we have now the "homogenizes movement" debate is weakened greatly.