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Zelda Matchup (Finished)

gallax

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Zelda



General Discussion

At first, one might think that playing against zelda is easy. She isn't that capable in the air. Shes floaty. Her projectile seems easy to evade. And her ground game seems to have lag and the inability to be super effective. Well, do not be easily fooled. This matchup is actually against pika. Zelda has the ability to counter the thunder. When used properly, her airiels have great priority AND range. Top it off with a projectile that is pure damage in a ball of fire and when in the right hands, it is not so easily evaded.

Pika's Advantages

1.) Speed!!!!!!! WHUAAA!!!!!
2.) A better ground game
3.) Small (very useful here)
4.) Faster pojectile

Pika's Disadvantages

1.) Easy to kill
2.) Can be spiked with the skullbash
3.) Less range and priority in the air

Strategy for Winning

The Projectile Game

Pikas tjolt

This matchup is very similar to gaw when trying to use your tjolt. The biggest defference being, obviously, that zelda cannot absorb it. But, she can reflect it back at you. She can use her nuetral B(NL) and it will reflect it back onto you. So, if you do not know how the gaw matchup then here are some ways to use your tjolt.

Depending on if you are on a stage with/without a platform and where you are sending the tjolt from, there are different ways to use it effectively. First off, the ineffective way to use it is when you are far away from her. Give her enough time and she will reflect it. It does not matter whether you are in the air or on a platform or on the ground. Using the tjolt far away is counterproductive. You cannot possibly follow it up with an attack and she now has your projectile coming back at you in some way and she can now use hers on you.

To use the tjolt effectively, you must either be close or know when she is not going to reflect it, in which case that is a mindgame and you know your opponent well enough to know how to use the tjolt effectively. Now you can either attack from the ground, the air, or from a platform with the tjolt.

Note* From here on in I will talk about the tjolt and when using it, you are close enough for her to have to shield and not use her reflector. The whole idea is to avoid her NL


Attacking her from the ground is an uncommon case at best. I hardly ever see a pika just stand ther and send tjolts. Mostly I see them jumping and using them. But, if you do decide to use it on the ground, your reason better be good. A situation in which you might be using it on the ground is when the zelda is also on the ground, duh. If she is using her din's fire(DF) and you can use your tjolt and have time to shield her attack, do it. She will not be able to shield it in time. IF you do hit Zelda with your tjolt, her DF is no longer capable of exploding.

Next, what most pikas do is use their tjolt by short hopping. This is fine to do, except whether DF has already been set loose. You see, her DF will travel faster than your tjolt. SO if you are in the air and she has sent a DF your way, either qa out of there or FF and put up the shield. Also, a good thing about being in the air is that you can use your first jump to use your tjolt and your second jump to jump over the reflected tjolt. Also, zeldas do like to play around in the air. The tjolt is great for spacing issues. This sounds weird yes. But you are playing the most powerful character in the air who is floaty.The tjolt may just be the thing that will keep the zelda from rushin in near to you at times if you can get a few tjolts to the face in a match. Plus, the chances of using her reflector in air is less likely.

Note* Some zeldas will transport above pika and hurt them when they are about to land frmo FH'ing or Sh'ing the tjolt. Be sure to watch out for this and react appropriately by FF'ing and/or shielding.

Zelda's Din's Fire(DF)


Zelda's DF is quite possible on of the best projectiles in the game. It can go the entire distance of FD, and then some. She can angle it upwards, downwards, or not at all. They control the timing of the explosion when they let go of the b button. the hitbox of DF is crazy. It carries a normal hitbox, but when it explodes, the full hitbox is never the same. Sometimes it will have a crazy range closer to zelda, sometimes it will be farther away. Basically, what I am trying to get at is that DF is a great projectile.

Now, the best way to counter DF is to shield is. Powershield it too since you need all the shield you can possibly keep healthy. Do not attempt to spotdodge it unless you are in the air or until you are sure that you have the timing down for it. But, remember that the zelda player can extend it a few more frames and still get it to hit by letting go past you just a little more or explode it sooner if they know you are going to spot dodge it. The only assured way of not getting hit, is by shielding.

When you are in the air and you see Df coming your way, you can try a few things. You can try to FF as fast as you can down to try and evade it. Or you can try to airdodge it if it gets to close. Other than that, we cant do anything. We do not have a reflector and are sol.


Approaching Zelda


A quote from a fellow player

"I hesitate to call mine spammy (Din's-wise), only because the fact is that Zelda lacks good approaches on most characters.... she's slow, her attacks & grab animation are all laggy, and as powerful as her moves are, the only ones that really push people out of punishment range -- if you happen to whiff or hit their shield -- are ftilt and sometimes Naryu's. I promise you, if Zelda had even one reliable approach, I'd use it more often..... I try to approach with her too much as it is, and I get punished for it a lot."


Approaching zelda will be one of the hardest characters to approach in the entire game. The reason for this is partly due to her awesome projectile which forces you approach her. Sure we have a projectile, but she can reflect it. In a a game where defense is the cornerstone of playing, making us approach is such a big advantage for her. So, to win, you must know how to approach her.

Approaching her with the QAC


Never EVER use the qac as a means of approach unless you are using it close to the ground. I mean as horizontal as your can get to the ground. Never use it otherwise. Zelda can just stand their and use her usmash or utilt to punish you and make you miserable.

From the Ground

Be cautious when approaching from the ground. Other than fsmash (and maaaaybe dtilt, but I don't think so?), Pika doesn't have anything that will outrange and outspeed Zelda's dtilt, which will lock you for a few hits and allow her to finish with dsmash, fsmash, or, at high percentages, utilt for the kill. If you see her crouching, jump and punish with fair, because her dtilt has cooldown lag -- it has IASA frames too, but it won't be enough for her to put up her shield in time.

I would recommend SHAD'ing behind her as much as you can without getting predictable. Most of the time when zelda sees pika coming from the ground, they will walk forward or backward a little and ftilt, fsmash, dtilt or spotdodge > dsmash, all of which leave Zelda vulnerable from behind. (Dsmash hits on both sides, but the spotdodge is punishable.) The only thing that will ruin this method is if she Naryu's, which I believe a lot of Zeldas use quite a bit.

As for trying to outrange her, they only way to do this, reliably, is by using the fsmash. Anotherwards, do not be afraid to space with you fsmash in this matchup. Use it and abuse it for spacing purposes. the zelda needs to know that you mean business and are not going to let them get in close. As for the use of dtilt/ftilt , go ahead and use them often to. Hopefully you can trip her a few times and get some grabs in. Ftilt for the awesome knockbacks and the surprise kill.

Running up and shielding is also a good tactic, as only her ftilt will push you away too far to be prevented from punishing her. However, make sure you always keep a full shield. If it's even a little diminished, especially since Pika's shield is small to begin with, fsmash and even usmash will eat through it and get you with the last few hits, which carry all the knockback. Even is your shield is up, sometimes the zelda's will try and fsmash you anyways to see if they can eat through your shield, which happens quite a bit. Be sure to always be prepared to punish her after she attacks you and you are unscathed. Grab her or fsmash or tilt her. You probably will not see a usmash or utilt from the ground since oika can duck below them.


From the Air

The objective here is to never ever appoach he from the air. Her usmash and utilt are the best at preventing aerial attacks.

Approaching with fair is okay, but do a bit of shield-poking first, moving backward at the ends of the first few fairs so you don't get shieldgrabbed. If you see her raising her arm, don't even try it, because usmash really does beat.... just about everything Pika has in the air. Instead, wait for usmash to end and then run in for a grab.

Approaching with a bair is sometimes effective. Not from above, but from the ground straight into a bair. Just make sure it will autocancel before you hit the ground so that zelda will not be able to punish you.
the Kill

Punishing Zelda

Now this may seem like a strange section. Why would we need to know how to punish her? The point of this is to inform everyone who reads this the best way to punish zelda is by keeping pressure on her and constantly grabbing her and then punishing her out of the grab, always trying to get her above you. Zelda's are easy to fight when you are underneath them. Plus, grabbing them get you much needed damage in this matchup.

Edgeguarding

When edgeguarding zelda, you will learn that sometimes, it is almost impossible. Her recovery transports her through the air. So, the best thing you can do is to grab the ledge and hope that she will try to land on the stage. berethat you maintain your invincibility frames on the ledge to just in case she tries to explode onto when you are grabbing the ledge.

Now what you may also want to try is to learn how to predict where they are going to land. if you can get close enough to that spot you can punish them. But, watch out. getting to close will hurt you. Getting to far away will not hurt you, but it will give them sufficient time to adjust to you.

When Zelda is trying to edgeguard you she will more than like try to use her DF. Like i said above, try to FF or airdodge the DF. Getting to the ledge is most important. Now, when you are on the ledge, she can do a few things. She can DF you again, or wait for you to rise up and off of it. If she DF's you, dorp straight down and then qac back to the ledge. It will never hit you this way. If you are trying to recover frmo the ledge, be very careful. She can just wait for you to jump and then go under you and usmash you. So, hit the jump button and quickly qac the H3ll OUT OF THERE!!!!!!

Killing Zelda

You are going to need to be really patient when trying to kill Zelda. I mean really patient. Any zelda will start spamming DF when they are close to dying and force you to approach, like usual, and then punish you as you are trying to use your few kill moves against them. Try not to be too predictable. You will need to know how to kill with the OOS nair. This is an extremely important tool. Running up to her and then into a shield and then pulling out a nair frmo the shield to kill is a great surprise tactic and not always predictable.

Remember that she will get to high percentages so ftilt and utilt will become good killing tools. And, as always, thunder her. I love using thunder to kill. But, most of my thunder kills come from the hitbox on pika and not next to the cloud. Like I said before, be unpredictable.

Zelda Killing Pika

As you can imagine by now, almost all of zeldas moves kill. Her aerials are the most powerful in all the game. SO do not get hit by them. the easiest one to avoid the the uair, since we need to be directly below her. So never get above her in the air. As for her bair/fair, they are almost, if not, the same thing. If you are sweetspotted you will die at mid percentages. She cannot hit you with these as long as you are on the ground though.

Her smashes kill awesome too. Her dsmash is the most reliable since it comes out quick and easy to combo into from the dtilt. Her usmash and fsmash can kill relatively quick to. the usmash at aorund 90% and the fsmash at around 110%. A good thing to know is that sometimes you can DI out of her smashes. SO SDI the h3ll out of them if you find yourself caught by them.
.

Helpful Video's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rpq72e4VI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJTAUmmizw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2Y4tIWbGRk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77FKys6554s

Overall Matchup

zelda>pika
 

Ussi

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Zelda's magic is pretty killer and Usmash kills by 100%. Lightning Kick is nearly (if not) Impossible to land on Pikachu when he's on the ground. Zelda has the strongest (Seriously rank 1 in strength for fair, bair, and uair) aerials in the game so that's something to boast about.

Zelda is light and floaty. Her dair isn't that good besides being super strong, (its so hard to sweet spot) so juggle her to you're hearts content. I believe Naryu's Love has invincibility frames so do be careful about that.

NL also reflects so spamming is not very effective. Baiting it however is effective :) (not super :() Watch out for it when thundering her. Baiting the NL and then hitting her in after lag is SUPER EFFECTIVE! *shot*

Leaving rest to others.
 

M15t3R E

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Zelda can be annoying. She can outcamp you because she has a spammable projectile + reflector. I would recommend approaching Zelda by ground, ready to hit your shield button at a moment's notice.
When you're in medium range you can abuse t-jolts, because Zelda will not be using her Din's fire, nor will she have much time to whip out her reflector.
Surprise Zelda with a lot of fairs and dtilts for quick spacing.
Try to bait her fair and bair and punish it with grabs. You should be especially grabby in this match-up.
NEVER FF dair into Zelda. Her uair is very powerful and also out-prioritizes our dair.
Also whenever you try to land a thunder on Zelda, jump horizontally as you thunder to avoid the possible reflection from Nayru's Love (Zelda's neutral B).
When you have her in the air, you are generally at a good position unless directly above her.
A good way to finish her off is to bait her fair/bair and KO with your nair.

I'd call this match-up either 50/50 even or possibly 55/45 Zelda.
 

K 2

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All her smashes are super powerful, super fast, and super spammable. Fsmash and Usmash will eat your shield alive. I think you can duck under zelda's usmash. =)

She has a nice dtilt -> dtilt ->dtilt -> dsmash combo at low percents. You might find yourself at 40-50% after this combo.

Her recovery is really predictable. Learn the directions it can move in and punish either with a edgehog (if you know she's going for the edge) or with a usmash (if she tries to land on the stage).

umm...that's all I know about Zelda. I usually find myself fighting Zelda's with G&W, so I don't have much pika-zelda experience.
 

Zylar

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Played a few Zelda's.
Zelda's Din's Fire is annoying. >.<
Once she's doing her projectile spamming, and you manage to close in, don't be predictable. Easy dtilt, bair, fsmash or whatnot if you're just rushing in. (*Sigh* sometimes the hard way is the best way to learn.)

It is possible to tjolt and then shield din's fire, and she will get hit and you're left unscathed. Not that big of a deal, but hey its there. :D
 

Brinzy

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I think the dtilt trap doesn't work too well on pikachu with proper DI
Actually, the tilt lock works on everyone, though the lighter you are, the earlier it starts, and you have to SDI back. Larger characters can SDI back out of it quicker than smaller ones simply because their SDI pushes them away from Zelda more. Once you get into the 50-65% range (depending on how fresh the dtilt is), watch out for it, because even if you start to DI out of it, Zelda is going to Dsmash before you can get completely out.

Lightning Kick is nearly (if not) Impossible to land on Pikachu when he's on the ground.
Impossible.

Try to bait her fair and bair and punish it with grabs.
This is probably one of the very, very few match-ups that we won't approach with fair/bair simply because they cannot hit Pikachu. Yes, we can jump, fall down, and lightning kick, but nobody gets hit by that. We can't do a rising one, either, so Zelda will completely avoid that. So the only time she should be attempting lightning kicks are when Pikachu is airborne, so use whatever airborne options you have instead and don't fret too much about them when you're grounded.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Stealth has some experience against my zelda so I'll let him tell y'all about what he could divine from a pika's standpoint based on the bit that we played. I'll step in if needed.

anyway basic opinion I've got is that pika doesn't seem to have much against us and that we are a ***** for him... but he's so fast and he kills reliably enough that it's really not a big advanatge for zelda. anything over 60:40 is ridiculous unless we get some huge development in pikachu countering abilities, but we still seem to have some kind of advantage so I'd give us at least 55:45
 

powuh_of_PIE

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It's important to note that Luigi's Mansion, Pikachu's worst stage, is also Zelda's best stage, and should be top on your list of bans vs Zelda. If you don't, she will take you here and ****. On Weegee's the matchup can go as far as 65-35 Zelda.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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i think without fail every pika bans mansion in nearly every matchup. what i will point out is that in striking for pika STRIKE BF! she s too good there.
yes. pikachu seems not to be fond of platforms while zelda loves them. it should make it pretty obvious what good and bad stage choices are.

Luigi's mansion, if not banned, should be pretty much an insta win for zelda. it's a GREAT stage for her. good luck outcamping her or trying to approach her. And also, good luck killing her with the ceiling tiles. they don't really hurt her that much because her Dsmash is unhampered by them. Also, the pillars drag out her smashes making them VERY difficult to avoid.

and I'm sure mansion's got it's share of faults for pikachu... really, this stage is a bad place for you to face her. it's so bad you NEED to ban it or risk certain defeat assuming a compitent Zelda.

Battlefield isn't near so unfair for you so if you really love it and have stage specific strategies, it's not AWFUL to play on... but you're certainly helping zelda out with the stage. it's her second best one... no doubts there.
 

supermario27mx

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I've played a couple of Zeldas in the past, I liked Ocarina the best.
One thing that I have noticed is that some Zelda mains will try to use their farore's (spelling?) wind recovery to land on the stage instead of going for the ledge a lot of the time. If you calculate the distance properly you can land thunder, Nair or Usmash and punish that. Stay somewhere between mid and close range in order to land Tjolts. Keep your game quick and unpredictable like any other match. I've only played ta couple Zelda players IRL and one online.
EDIT: I hope this helps a little in the discussion.
 

babybaby 12 (banned)

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The matchup is probably 80-20 Pikachu's favor...only because she has that ice shield. Pikachu is faster, his attacks come out quicker,and he can hit above him. If someone's having trouble with Zelda(which they shouldn't), they have the opton of giving the controller to Anther.
 

[FBC] ESAM

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I agree with what the zelda boards say in %s. It is a hard matchup for Pikachu either way, but he is not at a big disadvantage.

Main place you do not wanna be against zelda is above her. She can either U-smash, U-tilt, or Uair and they will all kill you at 100% or lower. Adversely, the best place you want a zelda to be is above you, since, as mentioned above, her dair isn't the best of aerials and it is hard to sweetspot it, so you can juggle her somewhat easily.

Din's fire has a different hitbox every time it is used. It has a basic hitbox, but then every explosion is different, giving it INSANE range sometimes, and mediocre range other times. Just be ready to shield at all times when you are on the ground and they use it. If they use it in the air, time your airdodges as well as you can. If you do it too early, they can detonate it later and still hit you. If you do it too late...well duh.

Thunder guarding is not very effective against zelda since she teleports passed it if necessary. Also, you have to learn the range perfectly so that you can punish. If you go a little too close, it will hit you away. If you go a little too far, you will not have enough time to punish her.

Smashes of zelda are quite troublesome, and really strong. U-smash will kill you at about 90, even with good DI. F-smash will kill at 120% with good DI, and D-smash has a weird trajectory so it will ill you at about 100% with bad DI.

Too lazy to do more...sorry.
 

gallax

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esam. you have a vid of you versus your bro with zelda. you think you can dig up a few of them. idc if you lose. any would be great.
 

KayLo!

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I hate bumping an old thread, but ESAM's right..... this belongs here.

and i have a questions for you esam. when you are fighting your bros zelda, what do you do to approach since attacking selda from above is almost useless due to her usmash and utilt?
Approaching Zelda is a *****, lol.

I hesitate to call mine spammy (Din's-wise), only because the fact is that Zelda lacks good approaches on most characters.... she's slow, her attacks & grab animation are all laggy, and as powerful as her moves are, the only ones that really push people out of punishment range -- if you happen to whiff or hit their shield -- are ftilt and sometimes Naryu's. I promise you, if Zelda had even one reliable approach, I'd use it more often..... I try to approach with her too much as it is, and I get punished for it a lot.

So, Zelda will Din's to force approaches, and the question then becomes how to approach her, because as Pika, you can't outspam her at a distance. FD is the one exception because of the lack of platforms, but even there, I tend to creep forward while shielding/reflecting, then teleport on top of Pika while he's lagging from the latest tjolt.

DO NOT APPROACH WITH QAC. Usmash pwns offensive QAC. I forget who I was playing (Stealth, maybe?), but they decided to try QAC'ing in at every possible angle just for the lulz, and I literally just stood there usmashing. It interrupted it every time. There's only one Pika who can effectively approach me this way, and that's Tag.... he'll QAC through me a few times, mindgame me into using usmash by QAC'ing just out of my range, then punish the cooldown lag. :( It can work if Zelda's not expecting it, but if it's predicted, you'll eat a face full of magic.

From the Ground
Be cautious when approaching from the ground. Other than fsmash (and maaaaybe dtilt, but I don't think so?), Pika doesn't have anything that will outrange and outspeed Zelda's dtilt, which will lock you for a few hits and allow her to finish with dsmash, fsmash, or, at high percentages, utilt for the kill. If you see her crouching, jump and punish with fair, because her dtilt has cooldown lag -- it has IASA frames too, but it won't be enough for her to put up her shield in time.

I would recommend SHAD'ing behind her as much as you can without getting predictable. Most of the time when I see people coming from the ground, I'll walk forward or backward a little and ftilt, fsmash, dtilt or spotdodge > dsmash, all of which leave Zelda vulnerable from behind. (Dsmash hits on both sides, but the spotdodge is punishable.) The only thing that will ruin this method is if she Naryu's, which I believe a lot of Zeldas use more than I do.

Fsmash is also an option, as it's the only way to outrange her. I guess you could dtilt also, but whenever Pikas dtilt me, I usually end up intercepting it with dsmash..... I don't know if that's just a coincidence or if her dsmash is really that fast.

Running up and shielding is a good tactic, as only her ftilt will push you away too far to punish. However, make sure you always keep a full shield. If it's even a little diminished, especially since Pika's shield is small to begin with, fsmash and even usmash will eat through it and get you with the last few hits, which carry all the knockback. Even if I see someone shielding, I'll likely fsmash anyway, because 90% of the time it goes through. When it doesn't, it's a guaranteed "WHAT???" moment for you to take advantage of. :laugh: I can't say how safe this is against grabby Zeldas, though, because I rarely grab with her..... her grab is soooo laggy.

Pika can duck under usmash/utilt, fyi.

Also, when I say punish, I usually mean punish with a grab. Grabs are key against Zelda.... they allow you to start combos on her and get her above you in the air, which is the best place to have her. Her dair is balls.... it's only good for spiking....

From the Air
Zelda's Usmash. 'Nuff said. Never approach from directly above, it's as simple as that.

Approaching with fair is okay, but do a bit of shield-poking first, moving backward at the ends of the first few fairs so you don't get shieldgrabbed. If you see her raising her arm, don't even try it, because usmash really does beat.... just about everything Pika has in the air. Instead, wait for usmash to end and then run in for a grab.

Once again taking experience from my matches with Tag, Pikastorming is surprisingly effective. He'll jump forward, Pikastorm, then move backwards to land in his original position. The side of dair will usually hit before usmash can come out, and if both attacks whiff, usmash's lag is long enough that you can run in and grab.

Approaching for the Kill
I almost feel bad when Pikas have my Zelda in kill range, because it really is very hard to approach her with a KO move. Any mistakes will leave you open for heavy punishment..... the worst worst WORST mistake you can make is going for it too hard. I can tell when Pika players get desperate for the kill, and it's always when they start to play their worst.

The things that work the best are:

- Aggressive edgeguarding. Zelda has problems coming back from off stage.... FW is laggy and can only go in 16 directions, and her air game isn't so great here.

- Nair OOS. Run up, shield attack, punish the lag.

- Hyphen'd usmash or whatever you wanna call it. The boost in range is really helpful.

- SHAD > fsmash

Those are just approaches for killing, of course..... everything else I could think of fell under the "punishment" category.

I hope I helped. Keep in mind that my Zelda is.... different than most, probably. I originally picked her up for doubles, and I haven't read the Zelda boards or anything, so "normal" Zeldas might play completely differently. They're pretty nice in their forums, though, so you might wanna ask them for their advice as well.
 

Pikabunz

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I don't see how this match up is Zelda advantage. I guess I need to play more Zeldas.
 

KayLo!

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I don't see how this match up is Zelda advantage. I guess I need to play more Zeldas.
Uhh, I guess you'd have to play more good Zeldas (i.e., not me), especially offline. Pika has a really hard time approaching and landing kill moves on Zelda, since her smashes shut down a majority of his approaches. But at the same time, Din's Fire forces him to approach. Plus he's light, and she can kill fairly early.

Pika's only advantages over her seem to be his speed and small size, which don't really matter as much in this matchup compared to others..... Zelda doesn't really need to outspeed him, and his size isn't a huge problem, just an annoyance.
 

Kataefi

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We have a pikachu summary in this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210250

Sorry if it takes ages to load >.> We tried to make it as accurate as we could by reading into both characters and the matchup discussion but it's from Zelda's perspective. I hope you guys don't mind if I steal some of the info here to update the summary with extra information ^^

Also... as a quick side note... Zelda's faster than pikachu in the air (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167952&highlight=horizontal+speed).

The only reason she appears slow is because a lot of players let her float on by ^^ She's sped up considerably with high horizontal air speed and an okay fast-fall speed, along with teleport cancelling. Her moveset, for its range, is very fast also. Aside from everyone's misconception, (and a slow dash speed), she's a fast character =D

Kaylo! lolololo!!!!!! Say hi to the zeldas at some point ^^ If you ever wanna ditto sometime let me know, but I'm from the UK so we might have lag =(
 

KayLo!

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Also... as a quick side note... Zelda's faster than pikachu in the air (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167952&highlight=horizontal+speed).

The only reason she appears slow is because a lot of players let her float on by ^^ She's sped up considerably with high horizontal air speed and an okay fast-fall speed, along with teleport cancelling. Her moveset, for its range, is very fast also. Aside from everyone's misconception, (and a slow dash speed), she's a fast character =D
Iiiinteresting! Like I said, I know very little about Zelda aside from my experience playing her (mostly on wifi, altho I did use her twice in a tournament), so this is really surprising to find out. =O

Pikachu still feels faster to me, but maybe it's just because he has a lot of speedy attacks that string together well.... most of Zelda's attacks have high knockback, so her playstyle just seems slower. But maybe I'm just not playing her right, lol.


Kaylo! lolololo!!!!!! Say hi to the zeldas at some point ^^ If you ever wanna ditto sometime let me know, but I'm from the UK so we might have lag =(
I'll try to post more often, hehe. I mostly just lurk every once in a while.

Also, I'd love to ditto at some point, altho I guarantee we will lag. My wifi is balls. :(
 

Kataefi

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Lol no worries! My wifi is dreadful >.< I always see lag as a good time to experiment with things!

Zelda can be fast but making her fast is where the problem mainly lies. You need to give her a push on the control stick at all times in the air. It just feels like you need to work harder in order to make her faster, which is a tad inconvenient.
 

gallax

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i have finished with this guide. one more down. a few more to go. please comment if you do not like something or feel like im missing something important.
 

XFadingNirvanaX

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I know this is really old but something is really bugging me about it:

"Zelda's DF is quite possible one of the best projectiles in the game."

That's 100% false.

Din's is slow, easy to dodge, and leaves Zelda completely open. Ya, if you don't know the match up or are new to brawl then it may seem like a great move, but in all actuality it's bad.
 

Legendary Pikachu

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I know this is really old but something is really bugging me about it:

"Zelda's DF is quite possible one of the best projectiles in the game."

That's 100% false.

Din's is slow, easy to dodge, and leaves Zelda completely open. Ya, if you don't know the match up or are new to brawl then it may seem like a great move, but in all actuality it's bad.
Don't worry about this. Although we know, there was a huge argument with a couple from the zelda boards (literally 9+ pages of arguing that din's is not all too great... but we pika's [kaylo and myself] still didn't convince those couple of people).... So to appease them, we sorta kept that quote. lol.
 

KayLo!

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Yeah, this MU thread is just old. Unless Gallax decides to update it, it'll probably stay as-is.

I'm pretty sure most Pikas know that Din's is bad by now, lol.
 

zeldspazz

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Don't worry about this. Although we know, there was a huge argument with a couple from the zelda boards (literally 9+ pages of arguing that din's is not all too great... but we pika's [kaylo and myself] still didn't convince those couple of people).... So to appease them, we sorta kept that quote. lol.
Lol are you serious? I always wondered why it said that xD xD
 

Fuujin

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Double posting in ur threads.
Woooow DIn's fire one of the best pronjectiles in the game?
I honest;y dunno what to say about that.
It has so much lag on it and you ever tried N airing it?
Yeha maybe give that a try.
Maybe one of the worse projectiles in the game.
Pikachu beats Zelda, not losses to her.
If anything it's 55-45 his adv but I'd say 40-60.

He's way to fast for her to keep up with.
And like Nirvana said "Din's is slow, easy to dodge, and leaves Zelda completely open. Ya, if you don't know the match up or are new to brawl then it may seem like a great move, but in all actuality it's bad.".

You guys might wanna take that part off your official MU thread for Pikachu cause it makes this board look very...noobish.
 

KayLo!

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Stop..... bumping..... old...... threads.

Thanks for the input, but we're well aware that these are very outdated. We're working on rediscussing all these matchups in the near future.
 
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