Pokemon Trainer's Weaknesses and Resistances

Mr. Escalator · Jan 30, 2009

Hey, Mr. Escalator here.
One thing I have looked for and haven't found is an in depth thread, or post, on a big part of Pokemon Trainer's character; His systems of Weaknesses and Resistances. Weaknesses and Resistances affect PT's matchups with other characters, and how you go about fighting another PT, so I thought it would be good to highlight the attacks that are recognized as a certain element by the game to better inform the PT community. If anything, this thread makes a decent reference.

ColinJF's thread on brawl Mechanics said:
5.4 Additional Multipliers for Knockback

We found a few things that cause simple multiplications of the final knockback value. A move being “super effective” is a multiplier of 1.1, and a move being “not very effective” is a multiplier of 0.9. Obviously, this only affects the Pokemon Trainer

Squirtle is weak to Grass Attacks and resists Fire Attacks
Ivysaur is weak to Fire Attacks and resists Water Attacks
Charizard is weak to Water Attacks and resists Grass Attacks

Water Based Attacks

Mario:

• F.L.U.D.D.

Squirtle:

• Usmash
• Dsmash
• Water Gun (Uncharged and charged)
• Waterfall

Grass Based Attacks

Ivysaur:

• Ftilt
• Dtilt
• Usmash
• Dsmash
• Fair
• Bair
• Uair
• Dair
• Bullet Seed (First hit and seeds)
• Razor Leaf
• Vine Whip

Fire Based Attacks

Bowser:

• Fire Breath

Captain Falcon:

• Fsmash
• Falcon Punch
• Raptor Boost
• Falcon Kick

Charizard:

• Ftilt
• Nair
• Fair
• Bair
• Flamethrower
• Dthrow

Dedede:

• Jet Hammer (Fully charged)
• Explosive Capsule Toss

Diddy Kong:

• Rocket Barrel Blast

+

Fox + Falco:

• Fire Fox/Falco

Game and Watch:

• Fsmash
•Chef
•Judgement Hammer (#6)

Ganondorf:

• Utilt

Ike:

• Eruption

+

Link + Toon Link:

• Bombs

+

Ness + Lucas:

• PK Fire

Luigi:

• Fireball
• Green Missile (Misfire)
• Dragon Uppercut

Mario:

• Fsmash
• Fireball

Olimar:

All with red Pikmin
• Fsmash
• Usmash
• Dsmash
• Fair
• Bair
• Uair
• Dair
• Pikmin Toss?
• Pikmin Rope
• Fthrow
• Bthrow
• Uthrow

Peach:

• Bob-omb

ROB:

• Usmash
• Nair
• Bair
• Dair
• Laser (Point blank)

Samus:

• Dtilt
• Usmash
• Fair
• Homing Missiles
• Super Missiles
• Power Bomb

:shiek:
Shiek:

• Vanish

Snake:

• Fsmash
• Usmash
• Dsmash
• Grenades
• C4
• Nikita

Zelda:

• Uair
• Dins Fire
• Farore's Wind

ZSS:

• SideB

And that's the list. It took a long time to work things out, so I hope you guys appreciate it. If you would like to verify this list for yourself, this is how I did it: I started by filling out the data for this applet. Once the g b c was worked out, I would enter the data into this different applet, also by ColinJF. I would use it to predict the knockback on the pokemon weak to it; if it was greater by a decent margin in the results screen than predicted in the applet, it was obviously Super Effective. If it was around where it should be, it was Normal Effective.

Big thanks goes out to ColinJF, who's thread I used as a reference and starting point, and who developed the applets who made this boring work possible, as well as working out the Fixed Knockback of a couple moves by himself. Thanks a ton, man.

If you have any questions, I'll be here all week!

---
Dynamics: Velocity, Forces, and Knockback
Brawl Mechanics: Damage & Knockback Formulae
Launch Force constant calculator
Calculate launch force

Charizard92 · Jan 30, 2009

Ivysaur loses out, losing to 24 people and resistant to only two. Squirtle wins out, resistant to 24 and weak to 1.

Shaky · Jan 30, 2009

This is sticky worthy.

jog · Jan 30, 2009

haha me and my friend would joke about PT being weak to moves that are "super effective" (i.e. lucas' pk fire since that's who he mains) but i didn't realize it was actually true :lick:

great find!

EDIT!

is squirtle not weak to pikachu's attacks?

his moves are electric and squirtle is water

Neb · Jan 30, 2009

Good stuff, Mr. Escalator,

.

Mr. Escalator · Jan 30, 2009

I haven't tested, but I'm fairly certain Squirtle isn't "weak" to electric attacks. I can do a quick test when I get the time, just to be sure.

The one other thing that I hadn't tested was if the IC climber's attacks were considered water based, but my gut feeling is that they aren't. Can test that as well.

Thanks guys :D

Steeler · Jan 30, 2009

i don't think squirtle is weak to electric. just like ivysaur doesn't resist it and charizard isn't weak to it either.

MrEsc does boring things for fun.

but thanks for this.

Mr. Escalator · Jan 30, 2009

Yep, did a quick test using Olimar's yellow Usmash. Didn't have an affect on knockback.

_clinton · Jan 30, 2009

Fire attacks
Ness=Dthrow
Mario=Fsmash
Falcon=Fsmash

Grass Attacks
Jiggs=Rest?

Also...what would Peach's Peach Bomber and Utilt be?
The same for Ganondorf's "Dark" moves?

And this list doesn't mean having a res. or weakpoint is bad it just depends on the characters move...for example...PK Fire (Ness) is harder for Squirtle to get out of then it is for Ivysaur...the same with the Dthrow...

Mr. Escalator · Jan 30, 2009

_clinton said:
Fire attacks
Ness=Dthrow
Mario=Fsmash
Falcon=Fsmash

First off, Ness' Dthrow has NO fire properties whatsoever. It doesn't light a hothead/explode an exploding crate, doesn't send them in the burn animation, etc.

Second, Mario's Fsmash actually should be on there, but I accidently left it off. It's in my notepad, thanks for the catch!

Finally, ugh. Falcon's Fsmash IS fire based, but it wasn't on the initial list of moves to test (me and Thunderhorse+ tested for burn animations, he had the right side of the roster). Thanks a lot for the catch.

Grass Attacks
Jiggs=Rest?

Also...what would Peach's Peach Bomber and Utilt be?
The same for Ganondorf's "Dark" moves?

Uh, I wouldn't know! Olimar's White Pikmin have the same Ganondorf animation, but they are considered of the "poison" element. *Shrug*, it's not really related to this project

And this list doesn't mean having a res. or weakpoint is bad it just depends on the characters move...for example...PK Fire (Ness) is harder for Squirtle to get out of then it is for Ivysaur...the same with the Dthrow...

Which isn't actually true. There are many factors involved with how apt a character is able to get out a multihit move. I never said a weakness was always a bad thing though; I can speculate that Squirtle uses the first hit of Bullet Seed rather well to avoid the rest of the attack.

*edit*A friend caught another move left out. I didn't include Snake's C4, but I have that as well.

jog · Jan 30, 2009

_clinton said:
Fire attacks
Ness=Dthrow
Mario=Fsmash
Falcon=Fsmash

Grass Attacks
Jiggs=Rest?

Also...what would Peach's Peach Bomber and Utilt be?
The same for Ganondorf's "Dark" moves?

And this list doesn't mean having a res. or weakpoint is bad it just depends on the characters move...for example...PK Fire (Ness) is harder for Squirtle to get out of then it is for Ivysaur...the same with the Dthrow...

Rest es psychic type mayne

lurn ur pogeymanz plox

Canvasofgrey · Jan 30, 2009

Peach Bomber and Utilt for Peach is non-elemental. They call it "Magic attack" in SSE. Kind-of like "normal" if you wanna put it in Pokemon terms. In short, there is no change.

CHOMPY · Jan 30, 2009

Its a shame that fruits dont count as a grass attack since they do grow mostly on trees. Like turnips and bananas for instance.

DemonFart · Jan 30, 2009

wow, thanks for this thread, sticky it retro.

Magik0722 · Jan 31, 2009

I always hated thet added thsi is.
Squirtle gets resistance to fire but it doesnt realy matter since hes so light anyway
Ivysuar gets a huge weakness and already has trouble recovering
charizard only gains a reistance that doesnt really matter and a weakness that also doesnt amtter

The Jort · Jan 31, 2009

Isn't Luigi's exploding headbutt a fire attack?

Mr. Escalator · Jan 31, 2009

Yeah it is, and I have it, even. That's it, I'm going over the attacks to make sure I didnt leave anything off of my notepad.

My notepad said:
Mario: Fireball, Fsmash
Luigi: Fireball, UpB, SideB
Peach: Bob-Omb
Bowser: Firebreath
etc..

Ussi · Jan 31, 2009

sucks to be Ivysaur... lol

Electric attacks should have been added

Then there would be **** from Ganon's dair lool

Steeler · Jan 31, 2009

what annoys me is that lucario doesn't get ***** by fire attacks, pikachu isn't super weak to charizard dsmash, and jiggly doesn't get ***** by rock smash (well she does, but even moreso).

Rkey · Jan 31, 2009

I heard you were making the list, great job!

We have to keep in mind that having high knockback from flamethrower is a good thing, squirtle will have trouble getting stuck in it.

Phiddlesticks · Jan 31, 2009

I'm afraid you forgot a few key fire moves, Mr. Escalator, including:
-Giga Bowser's Firebreath
-Giga Bowser's Fsmash
-Giga Bowser's Fthrow
-Mario's Final Smash
-Yoshi's Fireballs during his Final Smash
-Diddy's Final Smash
-Ike's Final Smash
-Kirby's Final Smash
-Landmaster lasers

There are probably more things like items that you forgot ^_^

Mr. Escalator · Jan 31, 2009

oh man, you're right!
I also forgot Norfair, Brinstar, 75m, fireflowers, etc :[

Ill get right on it!

_clinton · Feb 1, 2009

Steeler said:
what annoys me is that lucario doesn't get ***** by fire attacks, pikachu isn't super weak to charizard dsmash, and jiggly doesn't get ***** by rock smash (well she does, but even moreso).

What annoys me is that Ness and Lucas' aren't canon in this game (really...everyone knows they are the best as far as powers go canon wise)

DtJ Hilt · Feb 1, 2009

Do you know of the percentage it increases and decreases it by? And if it's a constant percentage or if it differs from each attack? I tested a few and it seems to be 20% but I tested only a small amount.

Rkey · Feb 1, 2009

Mr. Escalator said:
oh man, you're right!
I also forgot Norfair, Brinstar, 75m, fireflowers, etc :[

Ill get right on it!

The claptrap on japes...? I hope that's the name of the level... And the fish on... Icicle mountain? Anyway, those could be water-based.

Retro Gaming · Feb 1, 2009

_clinton said:
What annoys me is that Ness and Lucas' aren't canon in this game (really...everyone knows they are the best as far as powers go canon wise)

Steeler's (and my) problem with it is that Sakurai made it so that PT's Pokemon are (at least somewhat) canon to the weaknesses and resistances, yet none of the other Pokemon are. Ness and Lucas both aren't canon, so at least they're equal.

Also, I added this to the Thread Index.

_clinton · Feb 1, 2009

BTW Ness' Dthrow is Fire Based...I tested it on a blast crate and it did blow up...

SSJ5Goku8932 · Feb 1, 2009

I am pretty sure Lucario would take a big hit from a weakness to Fire.Snake,GW,and others would have an advantage.

Mr. Escalator · Feb 1, 2009

Anyone would take a big hit from a fire weakness.
Also, I was wrong that Ness' Dthrow had no fire properties (it doesnt do anything to a hothead unless the hothead is already big, which is where I got the notion), but it still is NOT super effective, as it doesnt send the opponent in the "Burn" animation, which is the only real criteria. Falcon's upB creates a fire explosion that triggers blast boxes, but it isn't super effective because it doesnt have the burn animation.

also to Hilt, the first post has a quote from ColinJF's thread that pretty much tells what happens. Dunno if you missed that.

and thanks to Retro!

Anomilus · Feb 2, 2009

Shouldn't Squirtle's NAir be considered Water based? It's not as much water as D/USmash, but there is water in that attack.

And yeah, if there were going to be so many fire-based attacks and so few water/grass based attacks, Sakurai should have either buffed Ivysaur further or just dropped this idea; Probably the latter, 'cause nobody would have cared if it wasn't in the game. I know Smash should have lots of attention to detail, but that includes balance, which Sakurai clearly isn't good at foreseeing.

Mr. Escalator · Feb 2, 2009

It isn't. I checked that specifically.
:<

He could of at least made it so that explosives weren't considered fire based, but ah well. Poor Ivy.

Villi · Feb 9, 2009

I don't know why Peach's turnips aren't grass element.

Terodactyl Yelnats · Mar 10, 2009

Ivy, stay strong!

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