Toon Link's Match-up Discussion #27 - Mario

I've played H_R many times as Mario and from experience I really don't know what this match up would be. However, our boards have this as 40:60 in Toon Link's favor.

Mario's Nair cancels out TL's arrows and boomerang and he also has the cape to help him with these and the bombs aren't too difficult to avoid. Fireballs can of course create openings and aid Mario's camping game alongside the cape. I also find it that once Mario gets inside Toon Link he has a bit of trouble kicking him out and can be comboed pretty well. TL is on the light side so Mario has a bit more in his KO options in this match as well, and with TL's lack of killing power KO'ing Mario might be a problem if you decay your smashes. Mario's ground game is also a little better then Toon Link's in terms of range and power, Dsmash is a quick GTFO move for Mario as well as his Jabs and Ftilt and lets not forget the Fsmash which can be stutter stepped for epic range.

(Upon speaking with a friend who mains TL, Bair and Nair might be combo breakers. I'm not too sure on this though. Where's H_R when I need him? xD Gonna need conformation on it but Nair sounds like it would work more then Bair.)


Now TL obviously has his quick and annoying projectiles on his side and if Mario can't keep up he's going to get hammered and take damage pretty quickly and when compared to one another Toon Link's camping game may be considered better then Mario's. Toon Link's Zair causes a lot of problems in Mario's SH Fireball approach and approach in general but lacks the reach that Link's has which makes it a bit easier to space Mario away from. His aerial game seems to be on par (or even better) with Mario's in terms of speed and mobility as well and as we all know Toon Link has that nasty Bair wall of his which can really hurt Mario if he gets caught in it but it really the only thing he can combo with in the air where Mario can combo with all of his aerials. (Not sure of FLUDD's effectiveness on TL's aerial game, HeroMystic would probably know though.) Toon Link can so also gimp Mario's mediocre recovery with his Zair as well, whereas Mario (even with his excellent offstage game) may have trouble gimping Toon Link's recovery. Toon Link can also plank very well due to his weight, recovery, and jump heights without having to worry about killing himself. Mario does have a pretty good planking game as well, but I think Toon Link's outshines it in this match up.

Again, I've only play Hyrulian_Royalty in this match up on WiFi so I can't really give anyone a ratio due to WiFi being well..WiFi. Guess we'll have to wait for everyone else.

It's a close matchup. A little bit in Toon Link's favor.

Not much to say really except that Toon Link mainly has better projectile camping and a slight range advantage on several attacks. Nobody really clearly comes out ahead in anything else though. Edgeguarding and scoring KOs goes both ways pretty decently.

Bump. Toon Links need to step it up.

Hmm general pros/cons for the match-up.

Pros
+Toon Link has better range (I think?)
+Toon Link has a lot of moves that can keep Mario away (z-air, b-air, projectiles) forcing Mario to approach. Just be smart with your projectile spam, or else it'll get Caped.
+Toon Link has a good off stage game, can exploit Mario's mediocre recovery.
+Mario has a tough time gimping Toon Link due to all the tools he has off-stage.

Cons
-Mario can reflect your projectiles if your being too risky with them.
-Mario has good range/priority in the air.
-Mario has up B out of shield which can be used against some of your approaches.
-I think Mario can K.O Toon Link earlier then Toon Link K.O's Mario.

I dunno, I think this is 60:40 in Toon Link's favour. His z-air and b-air are super annoying >_>.

I think it's an pretty even matchup. Just a bit in Mario's favour.

TL has better range, kinda. Wait no I think they have pretty even range... I think.
TL can spam projectiles but Mario can spam Cape even faster to reflect them...
I don't know much about the priority of this match so... -___-;;
Mario's smashes are more versatile but TL's ariel game out matches him. Bair combos should be used often. Zair should help alot.
But I think Mario can kill TL faster.
Mario is easily gimped due to TL's spamming abilty and airial game. Plus TL has Zair gaurding. Perfect because Mario's recovery focuses on hitting the ledge. (most of the time)

I'd say 52:48 Mario winner. Just because of the Cape.

I'll think about the match up at school and edit this post or add a new one depending on how far this thread goes...

BlueShield said:

I think it's an pretty even matchup. Just a bit in Mario's favour.

TL has better range, kinda. Wait no I think they have pretty even range... I think.
TL can spam projectiles but Mario can spam Cape even faster to reflect them...
I don't know much about the priority of this match so... -___-;;
Mario's smashes are more versatile but TL's ariel game out matches him. Bair combos should be used often. Zair should help alot.
But I think Mario can kill TL faster.
Mario is easily gimped due to TL's spamming abilty and airial game. Plus TL has Zair gaurding. Perfect because Mario's recovery focuses on hitting the ledge. (most of the time)

I'd say 52:48 Mario winner. Just because of the Cape.

Click to expand...

Eh, there's no reason to excessively camp Mario to worry too much about the cape. I mean if you force him to cape with an aerial bomb throw, avoid it, and punish him, the projectile did its job. You're envoking a response from a safe distance to react to.

Plus unlike Falco, Mario is not good at camping. Pretty much his fireballs limit your space and force you to react in a way they can punish.

I can see it being even or maybe TL's favor. Mario is by no means bad.

in my point of view both toon link and mario are top tier material not like ss w/e but both have not reached there full potential and have some ways to go...

and when ever i go against a mario the only things that rlly worry me is his fsmash, his cape and his combos but i only know one decent mario and he's perfect with the cape no matter wat and we are pretty equal on any stage but i dunno not been on the boards long so meh

Someone probably already said this but, get a bomb out ASAP when recovering. There is no way to catch a high level Mario player off guard with TL's spin attack. You WILL get caped. P=(0_0)
Bombs aren't much to worry about in regards to the cape. Most likely won't go far enough to do much.
Caping your F-smash is really bad for you. Don't let them at all cost bar death.
Also remember Mario's main spike is his Fair. If he's right next to you, expect it.

And most importantly: DON'T GET HIT.

Bair really helps me with this matchup. More than some others.
Either way, he's pretty easy to combo, just a trouble with his cape if he gets yah (same thing with FLUDD). Just have to mindgame onto the stage. I would think this goes in TL's favor since his projectiles pretty much outcamp marios.

Zair helpful of course.
Uair helpful.
Fair. Bair.
Nair - VERY helpful.

And projectile after projectile like always. Can't cape 'em if you do that. And bombs. Moar bombs.

I would say 50:50 or 45:55 TL's favor. Maybe even a little bit higher.

So its all about H_R now, Aye Kirin >_>

IMO the matchup is even, or slightly in either characters favor.

Toon link has his projectiles, Mario has his cape.
Both characters like to combo, Mario more so.
Most Toon links will camp if they're not famliar with the matchup, The Cape and shield will make that a bad option.

Mix up your porjectile game so that mario can't read you like a book and reject every projectile.

I usually arrow cancel at ever possible oppurtunity, later on in the match, A good player will catch on and cape nearly every arrow, so mix it up.

Use more bombs than usual, cape won't really do much to them as long as your not standing in Mario's face.

At low percents you'll find yourself in alot of u-tilt combos leading into Nairs or Uairs if your not careful.

If your d-throw'd, expect a uair or two and dodge it.

Fireballs move slowly, and oddly enough this can make them very annoying to deal with. From a distance, Mario may use a fireball and run after it. Do NOT be hit by the fireball, the hitstun will allow Mario to follow up with whatever he wants (Lol hitstun in brawl.) But this won't happen often.

Mario kills far earlier than Toon link, so save your usmash till about 110-120 and get campy when your damage is starting to get high.

His Bthrow isn't as powerful as Ness', But its still something you should be aware of.

Mario's nair has great priority , space your zair and other arieals and be aware of it at all time.

Mario's Bair and Uair are just as much of an issue, though it shouldn't happen, you may find yourself being hit by bair several times in a row, same with uair.

Poke with zair if your finding it difficult to not be hit in the air, don't follow up unless your sure it will hit.

Both characters can gimp eachother.

Mario's recovery isn't great and a well placed fair or nair can gimp him when offstage.

If you didn't knock him far enough away, don't bother stalling with the tether invincivibilty, mario will stall with his cape and you'll find yourself in a bad position when knocked off the ledge.

Mario caping your Up B is a nightmare, but with toon's predictable recovery, its very possible (Kirins done it to me several times before >_>)

If you Up B at a bad time and don't grab the ledge, F.L.U.D.D can be just as bad as the cape.

Don't get hit (lolIsai) unless you like being in a combo, be aware of the cape and mix up your projectile game, space your arieals, and gimp when possible.

Thats about all I got for this matchup.

P.S.
Kirin- Nair would be better for breaking out of a combo than bair, but its not very wise for toon link to attack out of a combo in the first place.

TL ; DR

Stay onstage.

So, any CPs or w/e else to speak of?

I'll dismiss this as 55:45 TL if only for the fact that Mario is naturally easier to gimp than TL due to a more lackluster recovery.

Can't think of anything other than how annoying it is to play against a Mario.

xD