Shield frame data (Somewhat complete)

Basic Stuff: All shields come out on frame 1 INCLUDING YOSHI! Don't believe me? Pick Squirtle and a character pause, hold a on Squirtle's remote and R on the other character. You will shield it.

Every shield last 178 frames... Breaks on 179...

Shield crack stun data:

Float time: Once a character break's their shield they float up then land. All characters have different float times with some similarities. Some characters are missing but I'll update it later filling in all values.

Float time frames:
Mario: 72
DK: 72
Link: 59
Samus: 89
Zero suit Samus: 82
Kirby: 68
Fox: 51
Pikachu: 67
Mr. Game & Watch: 67
Marth: 75
Luigi: 91
Diddy Kong: 77
Zelda: 78
Sheik: 63
Pit: 68
Meta Knight: 61
Squirtle: 69
Ivysaur: 74
Charizard: 63
Falco: 78
Ike: 62
Snake: 53
Peach: 78
Yoshi: 79
Ganondorf: 53
Ice Climber: 77
King dedede: 65
Wolf: 54
Lucario: 87
Ness: 77
Sonic: 70
Bowser: 65
Wario: 66
Toon Link: 76
R.O.B: 87
Olimar: 81
Captain falcon: 65
Jigglypuff: Stage specific
Lucas: 67

Once you land after your float time every character suffers 524 frames of lag in which they cannot do anything.

THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THIS IS MARIO WHO HAS 523 FRAMES OF LAG! Why? I have no idea, but there are a few cases to this including Jigglypuff's jump break and Squirtle releasing somebody when they are holding that somebody.


So totals:

DK: 596
Mario: 595
Link: 583
Samus: 613
Zero suit Samus: 606
Kirby: 592
Fox: 575
Pikachu: 591
Mr. Game & Watch: 591
Marth: 599
Luigi: 615
Diddy kong: 601
Zelda: 602
Sheik: 587
Pit: 592
Meta Knight: 585
Squirtle: 593
Ivysaur: 598
Charizard: 587
Falco: 602
Ike: 586
Snake: 577
Peach: 602
Yoshi: 603
Ganondorf: 577
Ice Climber: 601
King dedede: 589
Wolf: 578
Lucario: 611
Ness: 601
Sonic: 594
Bowser: 589
Wario: 590
Toon Link: 600
R.O.B: 611
Olimar: 605
Captian falcon: 589
Jigglypuff: Stage specific
Lucas: 591

Again I'll get the rest of that data soon.

Input subtractions:
Each Input subtracts a certain amount of frames

A: 3
B: 3
Y: 3
X: 3
R: 3
L: 3
Z: 3

Control stick direction : 3
C stick : 6

Percent subtractions.

As you gain percents the stun time also decreases!

By 1 frame.... With the minimum stun time being 124 frames plus float time. So you'll need 400% before reaching your character's minimum time.

Now that we know that let's do some Math!

Okay so I just broke my shield and landed. I'm at 0%. So I need to take off 400 frames in order to reach my minimum. plus float time. The minimum is 124 so I need 45 inputs to reach this.

petre said:

each frame the game reads the state of every button. so it will know if you pressed every button in one frame. however you cant press them all again on the next frame and have it count as another press, the game will read it as you just holding the button from the previous frame. so you need one frame of not pressing the button between the frames of pressing the buttons. technically the fastest possible you can press any button is 30 times per second (1 sec = 60 frames).

Click to expand...

So if I can press all the inputs on 1 frame I can take off 30 frames if the L and R are different inputs a long with different directions on the c stick, and if c stick plus a are different... Next frame I release and the frame after I press again. I'll have a minimum of 1 151 + float time... 14 frames of inputing and like 13 of releasing everything.

However if R and L and Z are the same, the c stick counts a, and Y and X are the same as well, I now can only input A, R, X, B, Control stick This means 15 frames off per a frame plus release time. So frame 1 I take off 15. Next I wait. I end up only being half as effective meaning it'll take twice as long. This means 27 + 26 of releasing everything

Thanks for clearing this up people I quoted









In the end you still always Smashed! Or Hit by something powerful.... So don't break your shield....







What? I was bored....

first post?
10post

*subscribes*

^Double post?
10doublepostsinfractions
lol jk

good job Ref

question...
*Warning incoming n00b question*
How did you find all of this out?

What if you have multiple inputs every frame? Say, a cstick direction, a L, an R, a Z, a cstick direction, and a control stick direction.

Minimum at 0 could totally be 124 + float.

EDIT: game reads one input on each button per each frame, so your assumption of 300 reduction in 100 frames is bad. You can really get 2400 frames reduced in that time if you don't claw and can somehow get a 1:1 frame to input ratio on each button.

This should answer how I got it....

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193379

And Levitas I don't think the game reads two inputs on 1 frame....

If it does then you answered your own question in that edit right?

You're awesome Ref. :D

I have a feeling Jiggly will have the longest float time.

Ref said:

This should answer that question...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193379

And Levitas I don't think the game reads two inputs on 1 frame....

If it does then you answered your own question in that edit right?

Click to expand...

each frame the game reads the state of every button. so it will know if you pressed every button in one frame. however you cant press them all again on the next frame and have it count as another press, the game will read it as you just holding the button from the previous frame. so you need one frame of not pressing the button between the frames of pressing the buttons. technically the fastest possible you can press any button is 30 times per second (1 sec = 60 frames).

EDIT: although now that i think about it, since the game will do rapid A jabs when you hold the button, maybe it will automatically count as you pressing A quickly by just holding it. you should test that.

I wonder if the "float times" are really just the result of the same constant upward force being applied, and the time is just different because of the characters having different fall acceleration and top fall speed. Just glancing at the numbers, this could very well be the case.

ColinJF said:

I wonder if the "float times" are really just the result of the same constant upward force being applied, and the time is just different because of the characters having different fall acceleration and top fall speed. Just glancing at the numbers, this could very well be the case.

Click to expand...

Falco's got a pretty high time if that's the case.

Okay thanks for that. I'll change that in the opening post as for holding A I believe it's just like holding R or L. The game has a set way to react to this kind of thing... However this set way won't help you in this kind of stuff...

All I know is not even with jab canceling can you jab that fast without doing the second jab first.

Hope I fixed everything up please read my edit.

Well obviously are frame data doesn't match much at all. However, im not gonna say your wrong, i''ve been wrong before, and didn't have much to work with then. I'd like to PM you and discuss it later if you don't mind?

Actually we could technically discuss it here. If nobody has a problem with that.

First things first, if you agree that squirtle and Zero suit samus have a 1 frame jab. Pause hold a on Zero suit samus/Squirtles controller' and shield on the other. Pausing makes both come out on the same frame. This means both are frame 1.

Second as for shield stun you have to test that with proper equipment and recording. Well I say we can go ask someone else who is known for having accurate frames.

I was more questioning your rule that you can only press one button, but you can press it every frame.

Technically, I suppose if you can press every button every other frame (which is "possible"...), you get 30 frames reduced every other frame, or 900 frames reduced every second. If there were a debug mode in brawl, this would be fun to test.

If you have the homebrew channel and the brawl+ code manager you can just use the debug pause hack. It lets you play the game frame by frame. (just check one of the brawl+ threads if you're interested).

So really, there is a debug menu in brawl so to speak.

I don't remember hearing about a frame by frame hack that's practical.

Levitas said:

I don't remember hearing about a frame by frame hack that's practical.

Click to expand...

Debug Pause:-(GCC)
80000000 805B8A08
0402E5AC 8819000B
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 EFFF1000
86410000 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 00FF0000
12000002 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 FFEF0010
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 FF000000
12000002 00000100
E2000002 00000000

Press Start to freeze the game(don't worry, the music and sounds are unaffected).
Press Z to step through frame by frame.
Press Start again to unfreeze the game.
(The new Start command is X+D^)

Button Modifier:
041E6CD8 4BE1C128
041E6D1C 4BE1C114
06002E00 00000068
9421FF80 BC410008
7CE4402E 7CE738F8
7CE73039 3864FFC0
7CE3412E 7CC4412E
B8410008 38210080
60000000 481E3EB0
9421FF80 BC410008
7C03202E 3DC01000
7DCE70F8 7C007039
740E0408 3DE00408
7C0E7800 40820008
64001000 B8410008
38210080 481E3EBC

Must be used with the Debug Pause Code.

It's really good. You press start to "pause" the game and press Z to move to the next frame. If you hold a button and press Z, that action will be executed on the next frame (just like when you hold buttons and unpause the game)

I found all kinds of usefull stuff with it, like invincibility frames on Sonic's up B, the first frame he can attack after up B, frame he can cancel HA, frame aerial spring produces a hitbox, hitlag of various moves, ect. I'm going to make a list of complete frame data sometime and post it on the Sonic boards.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204677 Brawl+ codes.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199810 How to mod your Wii.

Ref said:

The minimum is 124 so I need 45 inputs to reach this.

So if I can press all the inputs on 1 frame I can take off 30 frames if the L and R are different inputs a long with different directions on the c stick, and if c stick plus a are different... Next frame I release and the frame after I press again. I'll have a minimum of 1 151 + float time... 14 frames of inputing and like 13 of releasing everything.

However if R and L and Z are the same, the c stick counts a, and Y and X are the same as well, I now can only input A, R, X, B, Control stick This means 15 frames off per a frame plus release time. So frame 1 I take off 15. Next I wait. I end up only being half as effective meaning it'll take twice as long. This means 27 + 26 of releasing everything
.

Click to expand...

Ok so depending on whether certain inputs count as the same input you either have to "input everything" 14 times or 27 times in 124 frames to get the minimum assuming you are at 0 percent?

and wouldn't you only have to be at 276% to automatically get the minimum if minimum is 124 and 1% = 1 less frame?

ColinJF said:

I wonder if the "float times" are really just the result of the same constant upward force being applied, and the time is just different because of the characters having different fall acceleration and top fall speed. Just glancing at the numbers, this could very well be the case.

Click to expand...

salaboB said:

Falco's got a pretty high time if that's the case.

Click to expand...

perhaps it's jump height (times some common multiplier) and fall speed coupled together, Falco has a really high jump

You say every shield lasts 177 frames... although I haven't done any field testing, myself, it sounds slightly off.

You can thank hackers (specifically, spunit262) for this information:
The shield has a max of 50 HP
Every frame it is not in use it recovers .07 HP
Every frame it is in use it uses up .28 HP
Damage done to your shield from an attack= .7*damage of move
After a shield break, your shield is set to have 30 HP (well, the quantity was called "shield reset" and the default was 30, so at least I assume that's what it is)

So using this information... 50 / .28 = 178.57

It should take 179 frames for your shield to break, not 177.

The only reason I can think of for this discrepancy (besides just human error) is that perhaps the game causes you to lose some very small amount of your shield (.5 HP?) for putting it up. Although if that was true, it's odd that spunit wouldn't have made a code for modifying it, as well, considering he released codes to modify all the other parts of shield HP...

leafgreen386 said:

You say every shield lasts 177 frames... although I haven't done any field testing, myself, it sounds slightly off.

You can thank hackers (specifically, spunit262) for this information:
The shield has a max of 50 HP
Every frame it is not in use it recovers .07 HP
Every frame it is in use it uses up .28 HP
Damage done to your shield from an attack= .7*damage of move
After a shield break, your shield is set to have 30 HP (well, the quantity was called "shield reset" and the default was 30, so at least I assume that's what it is)

So using this information... 50 / .28 = 178.57

It should take 179 frames for your shield to break, not 177.

The only reason I can think of for this discrepancy (besides just human error) is that perhaps the game causes you to lose some very small amount of your shield (.5 HP?) for putting it up. Although if that was true, it's odd that spunit wouldn't have made a code for modifying it, as well, considering he released codes to modify all the other parts of shield HP...

Click to expand...

I double checked and I got that the shield last for 178 frames, it breaks on 179.

Thanks I must of miscounted before I guess.( Or messed up by 1 while subtracting, I forgot which method I did...)

I'll finalize all totals and float times tomorrow.

I don't understand the practicality in any of this. >>