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Dash attack or "cartwheel" follow-ups! ALL OF THEM FOR I AM A NERD!

ADHD

Smash Hero
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This thing has broken priority; it's not because of bananas that diddy is such a great character but it's soley because this move. It gives him an instant advantage of controlling the bananas, and has a ridiculous amount of follow-ups that all take alot of practice and accurate timing. I will cover all of the follow-ups, some of them are true combos, and some of them are not. But all of these work 100% of the time if you are completely accurate. I gaurantee this to you. The different scenarios of the dash attack will also be explained in here and it will clear up all questions you might have of where it sends your opponents.

WHERE WILL IT SEND THEM AND WHY?

The dash attack has a total of three scenarios, and three hits in total. It can tip, send them directly above your head, or leave them dangling in the air/remaining in standing position on the ground with no hitstun whatsoever. The last hit I will refer to as "tipping." If it tips (the last hit makes contact) they will be in front of you in the air no matter what percent they are currently hit with. You want to try to space the dash attack to tip, but it doesn't always tip as its spacing is never perfect and your opponent could be moving. The second scenario is that the dash attack sends them DIRECTLY above diddy's head. This happens either when the very start of the third hit (the "tipper") hits them or they just DI it. Either way it is very rare and something not really to worry about. Finally, the third scenario is when the dash attack sends them directly behind you. They have no hit stun, and can react right afterwards. At low percents they remain in standing position after the cartwheel passes them, and at higher percents they are sent a foot off the ground in perfect perfect position to be attacked. This has the greatest amount of follow-ups but it should never happen intentionally. Always aim for tipping the dash attack and if it doesn't tip don't worry, with proper reaction time they will not get away.

To sum it up: 1st scenario is when they are in front of you ranging from 1-3 feet in the air after the dash attack "tips." 2nd scenario is when they are sent DIRECTLY above your head. 3rd scenario is when they are sent behind you.

1ST SCENARIO FOLLOW-UPS

Dash attack > SH or FH fair: Basically, after it tips at just perform a rising forward aerial and it will hit them. Below 40 percent, SH the fair after the dash attack tips your opponent and it will be a true combo. After 40 percent, FH it. It will sometimes be a combo if you FH fair them around 50-60 percent, but afterwards they can airdodge. It doesn't matter about this airdodge, always fair even if it sometimes can be avoided. This is good on-stage if you are generally in the center of the area.

Dash attack > SH or FH dair: These do not combo on certain, smaller characters, but it will RARELY be airdodged I promise! Use this when they are near the ledge. After they are tipped, just perform a rising dair over their head. It will spike them below, and leave them helpless for a barrel spike or whatever. Below 50 percent, always SH the dair. Above 50 percent, always FH it. It takes alot of hand coordination to be flawless with this, practice makes perfect. Mid-stage I never use this. It doesn't have any gauranteed advantage over a dash attack > fair other than being a simple tech chase at times if they are smacked straight down on the ground. If you SH this mid-center stage, they can use a get-up attack to hit you preventing any other follow-ups or simply shield if the spike doesn't send them in lying-down-position.. If you FH it center-stage you can bair them before landing if they have not gotten up yet but other than that, it's point-less to use it for other than near the ledge.

Dash attack > SH or FH uair: I never use this, simply because utilt always substitutes this. short hopping this makes it a true combo, however the full hopped one is not. Full hop it after 50, otherwise always short hop it. Some stick by this follow-up, but personally I don't like it.

Dash attack > utilt: Basic combo. At low percents you can dash attack > utilt twice before following it up with a well-spaced usmash or aerial afterwards. On heavier characters the utilt can sometimes be used even three times after a dash attack! This combo with a single utilt works generally consistently below 100%, so you can see how great it is now hopefully.

Dash attack > usmash: This only combos at very low percents. Use this ALWAYS if you accidently hit a shield in an attempt to eat it up and save yourself from being grabbed. You still can get grabbed, so it's better to usmash just in case they are slow in timing it. The usmash also has a weird property of not being able to get grabbed during it's lag time every now and then. It is amazing for devouring shields. Don't purposely hit the dash attack with shields to do this, you WILL get grabbed! Just only use this as a last resort or as a low percent combo.

Dash attack > nair: Don't ever use this, I said in the title all of the follow-ups and this is one so I'm listing it down lol.

These following ones are complex. If you pick up a banana with the dash attack and it ends up tipping your opponent after picking it up, glide toss it forwards directly up. You can follow this glide toss up by...

Utilt > aerial: Works at very low percents. Glide toss it up, then utilt them, and fair, uair, or usmash before they land. On heavier characters you can utilt them twice and then follow it up.

Just an aerial: After the upwards glide toss, you can full hop fair, uair, dair, or even bair if they DI behind you. Do this if they are at 50-90 percent.

FH banana throw > dair: This works over the ledge, after it tips just FH rising throw with the z-button holding forwards, and then press down on the c-stick. Works between 40-100.

Dash attack > SH banana throw > fair: Fun to do, works around 40-60 percent and is a nice thing to mix up. You could just glide toss the banana upwards if you pick it up and it tips your opponent, but w/e, its flashy as hell. Very sexy.

2ND SCENARIO FOLLOW-UPS

If they are sent directly above you...

Dash attack > utilt: Works for 1st scenario and 2nd scenario.

Dash attack > uair: Works for 1st scenario and 2nd scenario.

Dash attack > usmash: Works at very low percents.

Dash attack > bair: Follow their DI afterwards, bair them.

Dash attack > SH/FH dair: Works for 1st scenario and 2nd scenario.

Dash attack > banana throw upwards: If you pick up a banana during the dash attack and the 2nd scenario occurs, throw it upwards without a glide-toss. You know what to do afterwards.. aerial, utilt, or usmash.

3RD SCENARIO FOLLOW-UPS

Dash attack > fsmash: This works 0-100 as long as the dash attack doesn't tip. If you cartwheel past their body, immediately reverse fsmash. This can get KO's if the final hit makes contact with them at high percents. This is something you should use only every now and then because it isn't accurate at all. They can DI away from being hit with the fsmash, but don't forget about it. It is sexy to land and it punishes bad DI after the dash attack. Remember at lower percents they will remain in standing position if the cartwheel doesn't tip, so this is more likely to work at very low percents.

Dash attack > reverse running usmash: This is my favorite 3rd scenario follow-up because it catches people offguard. Most people like to DI after being hit by the dash attack, but they cannot escape the usmash by doing this. They will just land into it, or remain in standing position and get hit by it anyway. I have never had anyone shield the usmash in this follow-up.. ever.

Dash attack > SH bair (plus optional more): So this is pretty obvious, they remain behind you and you just bair them. However, at low percents you can pull off another bair in that short hop, and then go for the grab. They usually don't avoid the second bair, and most likely get hit by it. After they land the most inert reaction is to shield, and that's when you grab. You can also side b monkey flip to substitute the grab. I only use a solitary SH bair if they are ness, lucas, olimar, kirby, or metaknight. I will explain why in this next one.

Dash attack > RAR fair: Why do I love this so much? Because it's powerful knockback is much greater than the bair's. It doesn't matter to me, I rarely kill with a fair in the first place so I use it up all the time. At 40+ percent the 3rd scenario will always send them in the air, in perfect position for a SH fair. If they are a taller character, even if they airdodge the fair will still hit them. They will airdodge into the ground and then get hit with it.

Dash attack > pivot grab: Obvious as the title. Just dash attack, and turn around and grab them.

Dash attack > SH dair: Works in this one as well. Just DI backwards instead of forwards.

Dash attack > SH nair: Don't use this, just listed it.

I believe that's all, if I didn't put something in then I didn't agree with it being a solid follow-up or just didn't remember.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
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Dash attack dair needs to be mentioned in the first and 2nd, and dash attack bair needs to be in the 2nd.
 

DFEAR

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i really wanted to see the 3rd since the 1st and 2nd are well known to me :3 i need help with the bair setups so get to it chrome im counting on u =P
 

DFEAR

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...noo..it's defintevely 2nd, I've done it plenty of times...
yea bair does work when theyre up above u. just sh bair and its possible to do it twice :3 and a even bigger plus if u bair them to a banana xD
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
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yea bair does work when theyre up above u. just sh bair and its possible to do it twice :3 and a even bigger plus if u bair them to a banana xD
I guess I'll add that tomorrow, thanks guys.
 

DFEAR

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but at low %'s after the initial bair they hit the ground standing up so if they were lets say metaknight they could UPB out of the 2nd bair or do any other fast frame attack but most people wont realize that unless i didnt post this >_<
 

Timcanpy

Smash Cadet
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another thread of dash attack follow ups xd. You put som effort writing this at least chrome, good stuff
 

DUB

Smash Lord
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Good thread for the new people to see. I use the U-smash a lot more then the up+tilt. Good damage and eats shields if dash attack is shielded.

Naner --> Dash Attack --> GT up--> u-tilt/smash aerial --> ??? ---> Profit
One I use the most.
 

DeadX

Smash Journeyman
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Jan 19, 2009
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YAAAAAAAAY!
ive been waiting for a thread like this since forever...
(1 WHOLE week ago)
 

CrAzYdRuNk

Smash Cadet
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Diddy's dash attack can be followed up by like anything. >.<

But I think you forgot to list what happens if you pick up a banana in the dash attack, while hitting them with it. Doesn't occur much, but leads into serious hurtin' on them. Like if your next to the edge; dash attack/pick up banana->throw banana up->SH Dair spike. PAIN.
 

ADHD

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Diddy's dash attack can be followed up by like anything. >.<

But I think you forgot to list what happens if you pick up a banana in the dash attack, while hitting them with it. Doesn't occur much, but leads into serious hurtin' on them. Like if your next to the edge; dash attack/pick up banana->throw banana up->SH Dair spike. PAIN.
I already listed that.
 

DFEAR

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very well done chrome. 3rd option attacks were kinda obvious o-o but that fair one is sweet :# tested it and its nice as a kill move since im used to dash attack >bair>ff>grab. this can be a great follow up :3 ty
 

CrAzYdRuNk

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If I didn't pick up a banana during the dash attack, and I'm near the edge, I would say my favorite follow up is SH/FH Fair. At a good percentage you can follow up with a over B and get a low-ish percentage kill. Or you can edgehog in the case of some characters.

If I do pick up a banana, I'll glidetoss up and Dair them.

The thing that's great about this is that you have so many options! They won't be safe no matter where they fly.
 

ADHD

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No always dair them if its over the ledge. Trust me on this one.. Save the fair for on-stage.
 

CrAzYdRuNk

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The dair has a tendency to miss for me though...but I see your point. What if they're at a low percentage? Say...20%, and they have a good recovery? Seems a bit more risky then I bargained for.
 

ADHD

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The dair has a tendency to miss for me though...but I see your point. What if they're at a low percentage? Say...20%, and they have a good recovery? Seems a bit more risky then I bargained for.
No, you can barrel spike them afterwards and even if they have a decent recovery it takes a few seconds for them to react and get back up. I've gotten very good kills from this, you can also bair them for the stage spike.
 

rvkevin

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No, you can barrel spike them afterwards and even if they have a decent recovery it takes a few seconds for them to react and get back up. I've gotten very good kills from this, you can also bair them for the stage spike.
Would you barrel spike against say...MetaKnight??? Afterall, his Up B has invincibility frames and if he hits you, you will be pretty vulnerable...Is the barrel spike faster than a trypical MK's reaction time, or is it not viable against MK? I'm just asking because your in MK country...Last time I went to a tournament in NJ, 75% of my opponents were MK so I know you have a lot of experience in that matchup. Last time I faced a MK, I didn't really want to edgeguard because it was M2K, and I knew he could oust me in that discipline so I stayed with my banana approaches...so I don't know how effective barrel spiking would be against a MK.
 

ADHD

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Would you barrel spike against say...MetaKnight??? Afterall, his Up B has invincibility frames and if he hits you, you will be pretty vulnerable...Is the barrel spike faster than a trypical MK's reaction time, or is it not viable against MK? I'm just asking because your in MK country...Last time I went to a tournament in NJ, 75% of my opponents were MK so I know you have a lot of experience in that matchup. Last time I faced a MK, I didn't really want to edgeguard because it was M2K, and I knew he could oust me in that discipline so I stayed with my banana approaches...so I don't know how effective barrel spiking would be against a MK.
No, NEVER try to spike a metaknight unless you're a stock ahead or something.
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
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No, NEVER try to spike a metaknight unless you're a stock ahead or something.
Ok, just making sure since you said always go for the Dair -> Barrel Spike and it seemed suicidal to me...considering the vast majority of people you would have trouble with in a NJ tournament would be MK's...

Btw, in training mode, I got pretty much everything to combo out of a Dash attack with either hitting with both hits or just the second hit.

True Combos at one percent or another:
Dash Attack->All Tilts/All Aerials/Fsmash/Dsmash (the weak part)/UpB (probably can't be punished)
Utilt->All Tilts/All Aerials/Fsmash/Dsmash/Grab
Dtilt->All Tilts/Fsmash/Dsmash

What do you usually do to approach, that is if they shield the bananas...as you said, if you dash attack a shield you will get grabbed, and some characters can just hold A (Snake) after shielding a banana and you can't dash attack or grab them. I usually don't try to SH aerials in that situation although it may be effective (Too scared of Utilt).
 

ADHD

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Just go for the grab, dash attack only when you know it will hit. Occasionally you will get shield grabbed by your mistake but it doesn't really matter if it's just one grab. If you are getting shieldgrabbed out of it alot then there is a problem. Mix it up.
 

rvkevin

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The thing is, my friends know I'm going for the grab so they either grab me first depending on who times it better, or they use the A attack to counter the grab.
 

CrAzYdRuNk

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You could try SH Fairing to have another option. Its not the best one, but it would work to mix things up. Keep it even between Dash attack, grab, or some other thing (like SH Fair) so they don't know. Hopefully they will try to come out of the shield before you attack. Otherwise I might back up and shoot a peanut, or if I glide-tossed to a banana I would throw the banana. They usually shield only the first banana, not the second.
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
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You could try SH Fairing to have another option. Its not the best one, but it would work to mix things up. Keep it even between Dash attack, grab, or some other thing (like SH Fair) so they don't know. Hopefully they will try to come out of the shield before you attack. Otherwise I might back up and shoot a peanut, or if I glide-tossed to a banana I would throw the banana. They usually shield only the first banana, not the second.
I wish I had your opponents, mine shield the first and second banana, they follow whether I have a banana in my hand so if I have a banana he will be ready to shield it...Using SH Fair was kinda an afterthought so I won't be able to see if its effective until my friend gets back from COT4. I think that Side B is more useful than SHFF Fair because it is safe on shield as well, something I need to incorporate more into my game...Peanuts have been pretty ineffective, but I usually time it when I want to hit with a banana (Basically simultaneously) so I might alter the timing to throw him off, but its only a short term trick to adjust to...Which reminds me, I need to feign approaches more by foxtrotting to and from...
 

CrAzYdRuNk

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I wish I had your opponents, mine shield the first and second banana, they follow whether I have a banana in my hand so if I have a banana he will be ready to shield it...Using SH Fair was kinda an afterthought so I won't be able to see if its effective until my friend gets back from COT4. I think that Side B is more useful than SHFF Fair because it is safe on shield as well, something I need to incorporate more into my game...Peanuts have been pretty ineffective, but I usually time it when I want to hit with a banana (Basically simultaneously) so I might alter the timing to throw him off, but its only a short term trick to adjust to...Which reminds me, I need to feign approaches more by foxtrotting to and from...
If they shield the first and second banana, just dash attack. If they're still in the shield, you've picked up a banana that they're shielded, and you can either dribble, or glide-toss to the other banana, and start over. They can't stay in their shield forever. Pressure hard.
 

rvkevin

Smash Lord
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If they shield the first and second banana, just dash attack. If they're still in the shield, you've picked up a banana that they're shielded, and you can either dribble, or glide-toss to the other banana, and start over. They can't stay in their shield forever. Pressure hard.
Dash attack is useless against a shield...Dash attack=getting shield grabbed, in the rare event they don't shield grab it, I Usmash to eat away their shield and maybe the last 1 or 2 hits of the Usmash hit them. So I either hit them with 2/3 hits of the Usmash for say 12 damage, or get grabbed/punished for Dash Attack for say 12% plus opportunities for more. This is a horrible tradeoff for Diddy, especially when facing someone like Snake where Diddy needs almost a 2-1 Damage Ratio to stay even with Snake. So basically what I was saying is I need another approach because Banana->Banana->Dash Attack only works on amateurs.
 
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