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Brawl Common Courtesy.. Are You A Respectful Brawler?

Hydra.

Smash Lord
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Apr 24, 2008
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Kansas City, MO
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Aqua.Sword


Do you ever find yourself feeling like a noob when you win a match of brawl because of something cheap?

Or are you the kind of person that will use any advantage to win no matter how noobish/cheap it was?

This is the discussion thread on Common Courtesy in Brawl.
How far is too far?

Sometimes we use it and feel as though it is never returned...

We will discuss multi. diffrent topics, I will start a list of things I thought of that that could be discussed.

THIS THREAD IS NOT TO TELL YOU FROM ME IF YOUR ARE A RESPECTFUL BRAWLER OR NOT! THAT IS YOUR OWN OPINON! THIS IS SIMPLY A THREAD THAT DISCUSSES THESE MATTERS AND TAKES GOOD QUOTES OF EACH SIDE FOR THE FIRST POST.


Speak how you feel, there is no right or wrong way to play.
ALSO: Please take into account all types of gameplay: Online, Friendly, and Tourny matches, when replying to the topic.


Respectful Brawler Or Not So Much?


Discussion Section A.
In game respect.



DISCUSSION 1: (Starts on page 1)
Throwing Ivysaur/(or other tether recovery users) off the edge at low % and then gimping them on purpose.
"I consider gimping a part of the game, and characters with tether recoveries typically have some means to counteract ledge hogging. Ivysaur has razor leaf."

"This has been over stated, but again A)Who is honestly gimped at 20 damage? B)It's the player's fault for putting themselves in a bad situation. And C)Letting your enemy be saved from their own mistake instead of gimping them is saying (it's okay you suck, I'll go easy on you) which is the biggest slap in the face you can do to some one (mentally)."

"IMO, having good sportsmanship and a sense of honor are more important than winning. I wouldn't pick Dedede against DK and Bowser, I won't counterpick Rainbow Cruise against Link, etc. If you constantly play just to win, you'll run out of friends who want to play with you. You main focus should be to win only if you're going to get something out of it (as in a serious game). If you've got a very tough opponent, then by all means. If you know that your friend isn't as good as you, cut him a little slack so he can actually learn. They won't learn much from a 20 second game. Unless they tell me to go all-out, I'll hold back a bit."

"I'm sure as hell not going to gimp a tether recovery. Sorry, but I have this odd obsession with HAVING FUN while playing a VIDEO GAME. Gimping tether recoveries just ain't fun to me. Maybe as an Olimar user, I might be a little biased. But gimping tethers isn't a skillful way to win a match, nor is it fun to watch."

"I find it hilarious that people think not gimping is disrespectful.

"Hey! You let me get back up! How DARE you not gimp me, you *******! Just for that, I'm jumping off the ledge! Yeah, how do you like that!? That'll teach you!"

Srsly. If I were fighting in a tournament and a guy didn't gimp me, I'd actually consider that quite respectful. It implies that he is enjoying the match and does not wish to win in such a way that requires little to no effort or skill."

"Tournament Match: Go for the gimp. The other guy's probably not gonna let you slide on the same thing either. That, and it's a tournament: you're in it for the win.

Friendly: Still go for the gimp, provided you're going to point out what the other guy did wrong so he can fix it next time."


DISCUSSION 2: (Starts on page 4)
Infiniting a character. (Ex: Lucas vs. Marth)
"But some moves are cheap enough that the victim can do absolutely nothing about it until he is killed and respawned, and that my friend is cheap. Honestly, when a player performs a chaingrab and the other player (due to the situation or the characters picked) knows that it is impossible to get out of until he is killed, puts the controller down and then walks away to use the restroom and pay for a soda before coming back to sit down and watch until he is killed, then picks his controller back up once he respawns, SOMETHING IS FRIGGING WRONG!

And it's easy to say "that's why you don't get grabbed", but that theory isn't so good in practice when grabs are the only thing a cheap person would do."

"While I'm not one for complaining, I can tell when something is cheap. Falco's chaingrab? I'll keep an eye on it. Using top tier? Bring it on, I need to learn how to beat them. Relying on a one-trick pony or infinite that even the user himself considers unfair or cheap? You can follow your "IM PLAYING TO WIN FFS" philosophy fine, it's perfectly legal to; but you still know how we feel. Arguing the play-to-win philosophy implies defensiveness, and thus the need to be."

"I think if you're doing a match and you're not going to win anything (It's not a tournament) then things like chain-grabbing, ledge-hogging, and spamming moves are all a disrespectful way to win."

"I don't think infinites are fair either. Saying 'don't get grabbed' is like saying 'don't get into a car accident.' It's eventually going to happen at least once or twice. Unless you plan to spend the entire game on a ledge or in the air (and even in the air, you can be grabbed if you are right in front of the opponent), there will be a chance it will happen. A human player isn't going to be flawless, and one infinite grab will probably lead to a kill (due to high damage and one A attack of some sort). I don't like infinites of any kind."

"Infinites are dumb. I do wish they weren't in the game, because I do think they mess with the balance. The only ones I approve of are the Ice Climbers ones, and they have such terrible grab range that "Don't get grabbed" is viable against them. But Dedede's infinite on Mario, etc. is just a dumb oversight. But, if a Dedede and a Mario were to come across one another in a tournament, I think, unless the infinite were banned, the Dedede shouldn't avoid using it. The Mario player just has to accept the consequences of his main, or counterpick."

"Okay, Infinites, I can honestly say, are a cheap way to win. That's why they're called "infinites". People have to be scared that one move that can instantly give them around 100 damage, and set them up for an easy kill? That's one thing that is unfair. The people that agree with infinites are probably the same people that have no problem with Metaknight's Cape Glitch, which is another form of the Infintie. I hate moves like that. Gimping I understand, but Infinite attacks and grabs and glitches are a cheap person's way of winning. I don't care if you like to do the same move a couple of times, as long as people have a way of doing something about it, but infinite attacks are uber cheap. And if I'm not compeditive or good for disliking them, then I don't care. Fair is fair. Unfair is unfair. Infinites are unfair. -.-"

"Well, there are several aspects to the term "infinites." For IC's alternating grabs and hobbling, they would be complete $$$$ with out them, and their grab range is bad, so no, it's not impolite to use them. For Dedede's DK, Mario, Samus, and Luigi infinite and Marth's Lucas infinite, they are obviously character spesific, and therefore can easily be counterpicked against. For Laser and Ice Block locking, they are very hard to set up, and push you to the edge of the stage anyway. For all wall infinites, most stages with walls are banned anyway, and the others are usually hard to set up on (Green Greens has platforms, Cornaria has the entire left side of the stage, and Onett has cars to interrupt the infinites). In sum, there is no infinite without a counter, and therefore should be treated just like any other advantage you have over your opponent."

" Infinites are cheap. Eg. I just got chaingrabbed as fox by pikachu or by DDD by Mario. It's abusing character match ups so they are kinda discourteous. But for the most part a lot of chaingrabs require skill to set up so that's why I think that they should be used. It's your opponents fault if they get grabbed by the Ice Climbers. Once you've got them in that situation you should be allowed to do whatever you want. Or if you get caught in the wobble phase by a falco laser lock then again it's requires skill for your opponent to set them up and also teaches the victim to avoid being careless. But certain chaingrabs/infinites are slightly discourteous and cheap. It's your own decision whether you use them and still require a bit of skill eg. DDD grabbing his opponent but it's a cheap way to win a game and if it were up top me I would use them a bit but let the opponent go after a relative amount of damage just to teach them..."

DISCUSSION 3: (Starts on page 12)
Useing (insert char. here) and swallowing and spitting them out below stage, and you recover.

It may be slightly cheap but it's extremely predictable and so therefore if you capture your opponent you deserve to attempt a kill. It's not very hard to escape especially on low damages so can't be abused very much. I would therefore use this to the best of my advantage if I had a chance but that of course is personal preferance...
I personally think that if a person has an unfair tactic, and can't win without using it, that they're being cheap.

For example, this one kirby kept trying to Vore-Suicide me, and that was the only way he ever got kills on me. And it was the very first time I ever encountered this phenomena. But once I realised what he was doing, I punished him every single time for it. His Kirby never won another match against me. Granted, the suicide is already punishable, but this applies to other techniques. But the Kirby only beat me our first game because of that one move, which because I was in the heat of the momment I didn't know exactly how to counter it. I personally picked the same stage, and I used Lucario again, this time, making sure to stay aerial and use my Aura Sphere a lot. Let him chew on that. He called me cheap, and wanted to redo the stage again. I then used lots of dodging instead of my aerials or Aura Sphere, and the result was the same. Although the Suicide Move is one that can easily be stoped, it was still his only way to win. And he was cheap for trying it and not being able to do anything else. And he was punished for it. That was the only way he was able to make it up the ramps in the tournament (it was just a party for a birthday for some friends, but a tournament none the less, darn it!).

DISCUSSION 4: (Starts on page 26)
To hit or KO someone when they randomly trip.
A Thread On Tripping.:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162850

Tripping is dumb. I personally have no problems attacking someone when they do trip. But if hypothetically I was in the final round of a tournament, final match, I would have trouble getting the last KO due to a trip. If I'm going to win, I'd rather win for real rather that "lol he just won cause I tripped" johns. But if I were down, and it was my only chance, I'd probably go for it.

Tripping is stupid, and I believe that in tournament play it should be hacked out.

That being said, I take full advantage of anyone who trips if I have the chance and if I'm not playing like a moron. It sucks, but I'd expect them to do the very same to me. I've won a match because of tripping, and lost a match because of tripping. It happens, it sucks, but you have to capitalize on it when your opponent trips.

A win is a win.

Tripping is fair. It's stupid, but it's fair. If the enemy is far enough away, you can still choose to get up and resume fighting. You're not going to be tripped into a trap (except by Diddy Kong and his Banana's, which is a viable technique for him), so it's not like tripping is the end of the world. Not to mention that you can do a rolling dodge from the trip, and you can even attack while getting up. tripping isn't the end of the world, you aren't defenseless by it, and it happens evenly to everyone. So if you see someone who trips, you shouldn't feel bad at all for Smashing them into next-week while they try to stumble back onto their feet. It can just as easily happen to you, it seems completely random, and it's not that big of a disadvantage to the trippie. So go ahead, and charge up that F-Smash, while the victim sees it and cusses under his/her breath for being unlucky enough to trip. If you get Ko'ed while tripping yourself, its either a once in a match event, or you were probably at the point where you were about to die anyway. So don't get too mad, and just keep playing.

DISCUSSION 5: (Starts on page 28.)
To hit or KO someone when they taunt.

Golden Rule:

Would my opponent attack me if I started singing "La lala la la la"?
Most of the time, the answer is yes.

Koing someone while they Taunt. HOW CAN YOU NOT!?! THEY'RE ASKING FOR IT! WARIO, I'M LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU! STICK YOUR DANG BUTT IN THE AIR AND I'M KICKING YOU BACK TO YOUR LITTLE MINIGAME WORLD! But seriously, except for over using them and getting your butt kicked, in Tournaments and once a match has gotten Serious, I always smash people for Taunting. They will die for it. And unless I try to tell my friend on Wifi that I have to leave, then all Taunts are definitely points where the Taunter lets his/her guard down to make a joke, warrenting a kill.

DISCUSSION 6: (Starts on page 33.)
Spamming: how much is too much?

First off, I would like to add that spamming isnt really a manner of being a disrespectful Brawler. Most people implement the overuse of an attack into their playstyle, not only because a move is newbie-friendly, like Pit's Forward Smash. Maybe because they like the move, or it is just a reflex in using the character. This especially applies to the younger crowd of Smash players. Constantly using Ike's Forward Smash may not be a great idea, but my cousin just freaking loves the power and earth-trembling of it.

Then again, if one spams as a means of being cheap to his opponent, that is one story. There is no level of spam. Spam is spam, really.
No amount.

Spam is really punishable and obvious. If a Pikachu I'm fighting is constantly trying to thunderbolt me when I'm anywhere near above him, it becomes obvious soon and very punishable; I could bait a thunderbolt and just fastfall for a grab, smash, or whatever.

Some MK who always spams DSmash? OH GEE I WONDER WUT HE'S GOING TO DO WHEN I'M BEHIND OR IN FRONT OF HIM AT HIGH PERCENTS?!? Sheildgrab says hi, or really any way to avoid it says hi.

Spamming isn't disrespectful. Spamming is a viable tactic that's usually punishable, unless you're playing against a character who can really do nothing against one of your attacks, like MK's tornado.
Spamming : there can't be TOO much. For the purposes of this discussion, at least. Spamming is perfectly respectful, it just shows a low skill level. You can pick Meta Knight and spam Dsmash, Shuttle Loop, and Tornado all you like, and you might win some matches too. It doesn't mean you're any good though.

Spammers can only go so far in a tournament. Good players know how to get around spamming. If spamming is disrespectful to anyone, it's disrespectful to yourself. By relying on spam, you're not learning your character to their potential, and aren't playing to your own potential. Basically, you're keeping yourself at a mediocre level of play. And nobody wants that.
If it works who cares what others think? It doesnt show low skill level. Heck, can you even define spamming?
Give me a definition of spam that is clear cut and ill believe you. Is it doing the same move 5 times a row? 4 times is pretty close to that, is that spamming to?
Why bothering marking it with a name at all? If its a show of low skill surely you have no problems countering it. If you cant counter it however...
DISCUSSION 7: (Starts on page 34.)
No Contest'ing, Whats respectable, what's not?
(Possible reasons: For the replay, Because they were going to lose, Technical Reasons at a tourny...,ect)

If you really have to leave, or if a setting is wrong, or the wrong stage picked, then you can "No Contest" out, but only with permission from your opponent. Otherwise, it's just not very classy. And if you do it because you're losing, and because you suck, then you don't deserve to win, because you suck. Finish the match, try to come back, and learn something. It's more experience. Even the best players have been 3-stocked before, and even the most technically skilled players have SD'd stupidly. No Johns, fool.
If its a regular match, friendly, whatever, and something absolutely epic happens and both agree to stop the match to save it, go for it. Its all in the matter of both parties in agreement though, so if one doesn't want to stop, but the other does anyway, that's utter disrespect.

Tournament matches itself. The only way I can see it being in a respectful way is if one person has to leave for something, be it a ride came and there's no way to negotiate 5 more minutes of playtime with them, or an emergency occurs (a real one, not "omg, girlfriend/boyfriend called me, I have to leave"), and both people agree and shake hands on it.
The term "rage quit" is there for a reason. You're so angry about how something isn't going your way, and you quit out (possibly with a followup of a controller slam). Its definitely disrespectful to the other player and others watching, but it could be up there for as disrespectful as disrespectful gets. No one likes a quitter, and no one likes a whiny smasher either.



Discussion Section B.
Outside of game respect.


Discussion 1: (Starts on page 19)
I dont really know how to start this section but I will start off with somethings that I saw happen at the tourny I went to today and we can discuss on those I guess.

First off my brother who is only 12, at his first tourny, fought these Ice Climbers, and they chain grabbed him the whole time and then spiked him off the stage at the ledge. When the Ice Climber player won he told my brother that he sucked.
My brother told me this when we got home and he said he wanted to cry. Brawl is a really big deal to people because they take this game to heart.

Alot of the people at the tournys had really bad language. Every other word was F*** This and F*** that. -_-

The attitude that you are better then someone and even bragging about it ,ect.
I mean we know your good, You dont have to be a jerk about it though.


I'm going to chime in on this... I was at the same tourney the OP was at and played her in pools. Her little brother was in the pool next to ours. Had that happened to my younger brother, the perpertrator would have gotten punched in the face. I didn't realize Smashers were so insecure that they needed to cut down kids in order to feel superior AT A VIDEO GAME.

I've been going to tournaments for a long time now, and I've never seen the kind of deplorable, outright disrespect I've seen at my last couple of out-of-state Brawl tournaments. Look, I know some of you aren't old enough to drive yet, and you probably just started going to tournaments recently, but there is absolutely NO REASON for anyone to act like that, especially to little kid(or anyone, of any age for that matter) you never even met until today.

Don't get me wrong, I yell out "SHORYUKEN!" at the top of my lungs whenever I get an Up-B kill with Luigi. I joke around with my friends about how much they(or I) suck, and we may let a curse word or two fly, however, I do try to be respectful when there are younger players around. It wouldn't even cross my mind to tell someone whom I've never met, and may be entering their first tournament, that they 'sucked'.

I bet whoever said that either didn't get out of pools, or got 2-0ed in the main bracket. Even if they weren't as good as you, the right thing to do would be to say, "Hey, man. Good game. I think you should practice more next time." Beyond that, you could even point out things they did wrong, and how to improve.

I thought that was one of the fundamentals of tournaments; People with differing styles and characters coming together to share knowledge and improve the overall talent of the player base. Now, before someone comes in here all "I PLAY 2 WIN! I WANNA HOLD DAVID SIRLIN'S JOCK!1!1," Yeah, we're all here to win, blah blah, but that doesn't give you the right to be a douche about it.

I don't know exactly why the community turned into a bunch of impatient, whiny, simply disrespectful *******es, but IT NEEDS TO STOP. NOW. You're hurting the community as a whole. If these kinds of actions are allowed to continue, it's going to be the end of Competitive Smash as we know it.

that bothers me a lot and might even make me reconsider showing up to tournaments at all. I seriously hope there's a way to be good at Smash without being a jerk. I guess that's MY "mental wall" as a scrub: the possibility that the guy I'm playing is going to be a jerk to me. Even in friendlies I keep thinking that I might be the REASON the other guy gets bored; that I'm just so horrible that I'm inducing boredom in my opponent.
There's a huge difference in my mind between:

"Good game, you've got a long way to go to get better though" + or - possible details as to WHAT I need to work on.

and

"You suck, get out of here and don't bother showing up again."

Granted BOTH don't bother to tell me what I did wrong in the first place (assuming the - on the first), but I'd rather hear the first in any event than the second. And... from lurking on Smashboards, it seems like the second would be more realistic to hear...
Competition brings out the worst in people. But there should be more self-control >_>.
But I'm only talking about the crazy insults.
Honestly, I'd rather take blunt, short and sweet truth then "you're okay".
"You suck" makes me want to get better.
I still think that, no matter how good or bad someone is, that you still need to learn to treat other people with some degree of respect, unless they act out enough to not deserve it.
In plus. There wasnt an age limit at the tourny, If there was I could understand. But whos to say that they shouldnt go? I think that if there is a little kid that wants to go to a touny let him! Whats wrong with him trying to advance his brawl skills, if he is good or not? No one is to say that they cant go.
Discussion 2: (Starts on page 24.)
Whats a good way to greet your opponent before you're about to brawl?
Whats a bad way to? Examples? etc.


Don't annoy the opponent with your advice.
Like "I wouldn't pick *insert character here* if I were you."
Or "Are you SURE you want to pick *ICH*?"
"If you pick *ICH*, you're as good as dead."

I had this happen to me at my first tourney.
I hadn't played Brawl in like 4 weeks, and I forgot who I was best with.
My opponent was the champion of the tourney, and I was in the semifinals.
It really bore down into me as I fought, thinking "Should I have picked someone else?"
Sure, call it a john, but honestly.
Don't meddle with other people's affairs.
It can really get on their nerves, and can even screw up their gameplay.
But that's just my view.
I really appreciate the discussion produced in section B. Sometimes it hard to think of something to say to begin the match. I have this problem... I don't like saying "good luck" when luck is not a factor / I honestly do not want luck to be factor. In our case in particular, luck is not supposed to be a factor... so wishing it is, technically, bringing something bad into the scenario.
But I seem culturally bankrupt of any other "charm" with the same conversational applicability but without the strict meaning.


As for greeting and general etiquette with opponents when I play them, I usually start with a simple greeting like "Hey, what's up?" and will just behave friendly and play with a cool head. I don't add any trash talking or anything like the "hey don't pick that character", or "oooh man you're going down" because I find that trash talkers usually have a false sense of superiority that will often not allow them to play their best. If a person is sitting there talking trash like he is the "Brawl King" or something like that, I'll just simply ignore him or give him a "uhhmmm" making an acknowledgment that I heard him, but neither giving a positive or negetive response to said trash talking. I also understand that some can play better when they trash talk, but honestly I feel that if you have the skill that you will come on top, talking trash or not saying a word.
During the match I'll try to keep a positive attitude towards everything, complimenting a good move and giving an "ooooohh" if something bad happens to them (not recovering when they should be able to, getting knocked out by something on the stage if on a stage with something to knock out a player *cough*Norfair*cough*) and just be friendly towards whoever I'm playing.
tl;dr Don't be a jerk when playing, just sit down, greet your opponent, be friendly, and shake hands afterwards.

I feel like it is a necessity to do 3 things before a match:

1) Introduce yourself. Unless you are playing pools, it's very likely you'll be fritzing about looking for your TV number/station and you might not be sure who you're playing. Once you get to the station, ask if that person is your opponent. If yes, handshake -> name (or smash name) -> maybe a little chit about how the tournament is going.

2) Wish your opponent best of luck. It might be a common thing to do, but at the very least it lets your opponent know that you want the best match from him he has to offer. There's also that awkward silence during the loading screen if you decide not to, so you'd have to deal with that as well.

3) Avoid the degrading comments. A little joke here or there is alright, or even one small remark during the match (extreme maybe here though), but there's no reason to down talk your opponent AT ALL. Besides, if you lose, it only makes you look foolish.

As for greeting people at tournaments, it depends on the maturity of your enemy... but still, unless you're including a dirty word that you know you shouldn't be saying at all, even saying "I'm gonna kick your butt!" can be acceptable, depending on how the person knows you feel about it or takes it. You could be saying that just to hype the battle or to boost either side's confidence, or to let your enemy know that you intend on being serious. And even that phrase, which can also be construed as an insult, is still okay. Alot of what you say is more dependent on how you get your message accross, rather than the message itself. A good guideline that I follow is this, and I know this doesn't apply to everything, but it's still good to use, none the less: Would you honestly speak to your Elders that way? That poor old Grandma that hasn't been out of her house since before the Kennedey years, would you say what you said the way you said it to her? If not, then you're probably saying or conveying your message bad. This doesn't apply quite to all, but it's still a good guide.

Discussion 3: (Starts on page 28.)
Respectful Taunts, And Whats Not?

Taunting respectfully does exist, definitely.

I play a lot of Captain Falcon in friendlies, and I make sure my opponent knows I go in to a friendly with a play to win attitude. But when I land a punch or a knee, I make sure that the next thing I do no matter what is a D taunt. In serious matches I play G&W and DDD. Let's say I land a 9 with G&W or a Gordo with DDD. I'm going to taunt in some form but what I'm getting across while I taunt is "WOW was that lucky!"

And I'm not going to spam my bell or an annoying laugh with DDD because those types of things I think go to the rude side. I will throw a Utilt or two as G&W as an "I'm number 1" joke for landing a 9, or just crouch in that seductive pose as DDD.

When I'm with my friends, then okay. They know how to fool around and so do I; taunt it up. In an actual match though whether it is friendlies, MM, tourney set etc. it can go to far and turn into mockery. Like I've seen some G&W players at a local smashfest Dsmash an Olimar (which sends them far horizontally and a bit downwards) and taunt because they edge guarded. I'm fine with the edgeguard itself but it is basically mocking that person for playing as a tether character who can't do anything about it when they are low and horizontal. You already showed some skill in putting them in a bad position and killing them; don't rub it in though.

So long story short:
I taunt when something happens that had a very small chance of happening ie a 9 with G&W, Gordo with DDD, bomb or stitch-face as Peach, landing a punch with Falcon and etc.
I'm not doing this as a "I'm better than you" statement, it is just to say "Wow what are the odds."

In most other situations, outside of being with a bunch of friends and people you know, taunting is more like a mockery to the other player. You mine as well be saying right to his/her face, "I'm better than you, and you suck."

This game is supposed to be a party game and that is what it was made for. Taunts were thrown in as an extra little thing to make people laugh. Let's keep them that way and not turn it into a way to talk down on people.

I do send my friends messages like "Good Game" or, "I gotta go", or "Nice job", or "Did that Hurt?" through taunts, so I can convery my thoughts past the taunt, and people usually respect that, taunt once to say something back, and then the fighting continues. But if you taunt a stupid message or something rude like "*** YOU JUST GOT *****", then you shouldn't even care about playing with that person, or better shut them up quickly. And as for out of game Taunting, not much needs to be said except this :"Would Jesus/Buddha/Alah/(Insert Religious Person Here) want to hear you talk like that? And if you aren't religious, would you speak that way to your Mother/Father/(Husband/Wife)/(Boyfriend/Girlfriend)/Bestfriend/LittleNiece or Nephew/Crush?"

In game, I always taunt after killing someone of equal skill. If I kill someone who is better than me, I just do some crouch taunting (because I think it's n00bish to taunt someone who's clearly better than you!) I also don't taunt people who are worse than me, because that's kind of rude. This is just in tourney play though. In friendlies, I taunt away (I'm GW, so my taunts are pretty quick, and the bell is kinda annoying and funny).
Discussion 4: (Starts on page 30.)
Using inapprioate words (cuss words) or any form of them in a tag or team name.

Seriously, most of us are 12 year-olds who arent even legally supposed to play the game, so it is bad enough when someone has profanity and any other obscenities involved in their taunt. Their parents may walk in on it. Then they cant play wifi anymore. It may SOUND funny, but i would feel pretty darn bad if that were to happen because of me. People go insane without Brawl. I should know...

Well, I personally consider cursing to be vulgar and crude, so I do my best to refrain from cursing, both in-game and in life. It goes without saying that I would be one to oppose giving teams questionable names. Some are tolerable, but I think racist and/or sexist team names should really be avoided.

But again, we shouldn't be TRYING to scar anyone for life with our names. That's what the actual battle is for. :p

It all depends on the environment.
At a small tournament where there could be some younger kids then you should try to keep profanity out of Smash.
Even if you notice that the kid is taking part of it himself (and let's be honest, young kids seem to know more than they should) than at least try to make a clean environment. What if that kid's mom comes to pick him up after the tourney, walks into the vendor and is seeing/hearing things she doesn't want her kid to be a part of? I would guess that he isn't coming to another tourney in the near future and we don't want to see that kind of thing happen.

On the opposite side, if you found yourself at a big regional tourney where the only people who are going to be there the top players (older and more "mature") then why not? If everyone at the tourney is old enough to not care, then why should you? But don't take it too far obviously. Something like race jokes can be told in a manner where they are obviously a joke among friends but what if person "X" takes it the wrong way? Anything can go too far and it is just about knowing where that line is.

Is it really THAT hard to be clean?
Some people seem like they go out of their way to make some sick joke.
Discussion 5: (Starts on page 32.)
Trashing and not picking up after yourself in a place rented or borrowed for a tourny. / Not following the rules of the building.

EXAMPLE: The last tourny I went to there was a rule we couldn't bring drinks inside, like if they went out to eat and came back they couldn't bring it in the building, but everyone still brought their drinks in even though they weren't suppose to.

If the venue doesn't allow outside food or drinks, then you shouldn't bring any in, and that's that. The TO has worked hard to organize the tournament and acquire the venue and make the whole day happen, and by not following the rules, you're basically saying to the TO "I'm ungrateful and I don't respect you at all."

Don't want to eat the venue food? THEN LEAVE! Go eat food somewhere. Then come back. It's so simple. Every tournament I've ever been to gave at least 30 minutes for a break. That gives you a perfect solution to avoid breaking the rules.
DISCUSSION 6: (Starts on page 36)
What do you do when you win?

DISCUSSION 7: (Starts on page 37)
How do you tell someone you don't want to be their doubles partner?


(PLEASE MESSAGE ME YOUR IDEAS FOR FURTHER WEEKS.)
 

MBreeto

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It's their fault if they let you gimp them at a low percent, and as for tripping, **** happens, and you have to take advantage of those situations. Imagine in a brawl tournament where someone trips and the opponent lets him get up, that's not fun to watch at all. Or in melee, if someone misses a tech-landing and the opponent just lets him get up unpunished. So to answer your question, no, i am not what you describe as a respectful brawler.
 

Hydra.

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It's their fault if they let you gimp them at a low percent, and as for tripping, **** happens, and you have to take advantage of those situations. Imagine in a brawl tournament where someone trips and the opponent lets him get up, that's not fun to watch at all. Or in melee, if someone misses a tech-landing and the opponent just lets him get up unpunished.
Thankyou. ^^ But we are only discussing the topic for week one right now. :)
 

|RK|

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I suggest not putting up the topics for other weeks early.
 

M.K

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Ivysaur has ways to deal with this, I don't think you are very well-informed on his various gameplay elements.
Also, you do what it takes to win, and nothing more.
 

Hydra.

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Yes I know, I used to be a former PT mainer.
He can deffinatly use his leaf to get an open spot but you know that there are times he cant help it at all. I am not saying I agree to doing this or not this thread is to see what the smash community thinks about these topics.
 

|RK|

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Gimping isn't cheap; it actually takes quite a bit of skill. If Ivysaur didn't have the skill to counteract, oh well. It's like if they didn't have the skill to tech or DI a smash. And I always play to win. There's nothing that really feels cheap to me. It's more like "EXTREMEHOGGED!" Oh, except Kirbycides, but I use 'em anyway. But it makes me fell bad afterwards. After all, I did something that took no skill and gave me a cheap kill. Yay.
 

Hive Mind

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It's mean, but he has Razor Leaf for a reason >_>.

Oh, RL also increases his air speed too.

And he has better range than Olimar/ZSS on his tether.

I think if you wall of pain him, then it's not disrespectful. You'd do it on anyone else. It's mean if you just hit him so he'd be slightly out of range.

But then he'd Double Jump to Razor Leaf, so...
 

XienZo

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Its certainly not disrespectful, but random passerby might punch you in the face.


But I mean, if you don't, thats technically sandbagging, which is worse IMO.
 

Hydra.

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Ah. This is to general. Im changing it to gimp a tether recovery, because just Ivy is too general for this topic.
 

Johnny Pteran

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If they're at a reasonable percentage, I view it as fair game. Especially against someone like Olimar, with the awesome ground-game.

But if they die at like, 20%... Urgh, lame.
 

Problem2

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The only time that respect should be shown is when you are not actually playing. In fact, I would consider it to be rude to hold back against me on purpose.

EDIT: completing my sentences. The words time and respect were originally omitted.
 

Ebonyks

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I consider gimping a part of the game, and characters with tether recoveries typically have some means to counteract ledge hogging. Ivysaur has razor leaf.
 

Hydra.

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Im wondering if I should just take a lot of diffrent quotes from people and compile them or if we should of two people of strong oppisite believes on the subject to write a summary?
 

Quail Man

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Ah. This is to general. Im changing it to gimp a tether recovery, because just Ivy is too general for this topic.
Dude, do you even know what the word "general" means? "Just Ivysaur" is spesific, which is the opposite of general.

Anyways, on topic: why sandbag and refrain from gimping him? If he's trying to play a serious match against a serious player, then it would be more courteous to play as seriously as you can. If he's not trying to play a serious match against a serious player, then he's a scrub, and probably has random rules that he lets limit him (such as "no gimping" here) and will get offended if you break them. However, not gimping wouldn't be appropriate even then, as it would only further cement his scrub attitude, and lead him to create more rules for himself, and eventually eliminate all fun from the game.

tl;dr: A competitive player won't like it if you sandbag. A scrub will thank you later, once he has escaped from that mindset, for not sandbagging.
 

Hydra.

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Dude, do you even know what the word "general" means? "Just Ivysaur" is spesific, which is the opposite of general.

Anyways, on topic: why sandbag and refrain from gimping him? If he's trying to play a serious match against a serious player, then it would be more courteous to play as seriously as you can. If he's not trying to play a serious match against a serious player, then he's a scrub, and probably has random rules that he lets limit him (such as "no gimping" here) and will get offended if you break them. However, not gimping wouldn't be appropriate even then, as it would only further cement his scrub attitude, and lead him to create more rules for himself, and eventually eliminate all fun from the game.

tl;dr: A competitive player won't like it if you sandbag. A scrub will thank you later, once he has escaped from that mindset, for not sandbagging.
Haha I didnt mean to use that word, I am really tired! xD
BTW: Im a girl so no dude. =P
 

Scott!

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There are no girls on the internet. (I jest)

Also, I'd say if you're playing a serious match, then holding back is the biggest insult you can give your foe. It's either showing off to say hey, I can beat you without even trying, or it's just setting yourself up for lame johns. Go all out if it's serious. But if you're just playing around for fun, it's kind of a jerk move. Let them come back, and have fun.
 

|RK|

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Yeah, holding back sucks. It makes them think that they're really good. I hate it if people go easy on me. I'm like, "If you go easy on me, I'm not playing."
 

Kinzer

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Boxob - lolwut?

Thread - Your problem if you put yourself an unfavorable situation, I play to win even though I use Sonic, which only makes me want to use anything I can to claim victory.
 

Da-D-Mon-109

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This has been over stated, but again A)Who is honestly gimped at 20 damage? B)It's the player's fault for putting themselves in a bad situation. And C)Letting your enemy be saved from their own mistake instead of gimping them is saying (it's okay you suck, I'll go easy on you) which is the biggest slap in the face you can do to some one (mentally). I do want to see how the rest of the Common Courtesy aspects to game play is. I want to see if I'm nice to people when I Brawl or not. Keep this up, m'lady. *bows*

Edit:If I want to consider friendly or non compeditive players, or even the newbies at my school, I will be nice enough to not Gimp them, just so that they can keep practicing. Or, if they're lrearn more, I'll try to gimp them to see how they'll do against it, and then tell them how they'd counter it (projectiles, aerials that pause the droping speed), and then continue the match. But against pros or serious players, it's usually disrespectful to give them a leg up when they want to apply their true skills.
 

Aurasmash14

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holding back on your opponents is worse than beating them at the top of your game, and start taunting them on how weak they are. holding back is actually doing this except with more emphasis and besides.. if you get gimped at 20% its either you really do suck or the opponent is Better than Ken.
 

Lemonwater

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I play Link, so I don't normally jump off to gimp them. I can edge hog, but I only do so if I'm feeling mean. 80% of the time, I don't edge guard at all (unless my opponent is really tough). I try to stay away from things that I consider cheap, including: Metaknight, edge hogging people with bad recoveries, excessively projectile spamming someone who is absolutely helpless against projectiles (like Ganondorf).

IMO, having good sportsmanship and a sense of honor are more important than winning. I wouldn't pick Dedede against DK and Bowser, I won't counterpick Rainbow Cruise against Link, etc. If you constantly play just to win, you'll run out of friends who want to play with you. You main focus should be to win only if you're going to get something out of it (as in a serious game). If you've got a very tough opponent, then by all means. If you know that your friend isn't as good as you, cut him a little slack so he can actually learn. They won't learn much from a 20 second game. Unless they tell me to go all-out, I'll hold back a bit.

You must also go easier on most girls, since they will lose interest if you keep destroying them. If they are as good or better than you, then you can go all-out.
 

Rapid_Assassin

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I have absolutely no issues on doing any tournament legal things in the game it would take to defeat my opponent. This includes gimping them at any % even with MK against Ivysaur at 0%, tornado (or other attack) spam, mercilessly exploiting their bad habits if I take notice, chaingrabbing, fully charging a smash attack if they won't avoid it, picking MK, mind****ing, doing things that I know would completely demoralize my opponent, etc... If someone's going to be a baby about it, they have no business training with me because the people who train me have no qualms about doing that to me, and neither does anyone who ever hopes to win in high level play.

However, being a complete ******* is unacceptable. There's no reason for unfriendly **** talk (as opposed to friendly rivalry, pep talks, and/or anything that helps promote healthy competition and growth). Or someone who refuses to shake hands after a tournament match when the other offers to, etc.

If you want to be a respectful brawler, do what it takes to win within the confines of the game, and be a good person outside of the game.
 

Sean²

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A level 9 cpu will purposely ledgehog your tether recovery, and those guys just sit there and let you hit them sometimes.

If both players are playing to win, I'm going to edgeguard you in every way possible till you lose that stock, and I'd expect the same done to me. It's a little annoying, but I'd rather lose legitimately and respectfully than get chances I don't deserve.
 

Super_Sonic8677

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If you come to me wanting to play a serious match,you better not hold out on me. That's the rudest thing one can do in this game imo.

Though if it's lagfi and someone idioticly SDs because of it,if it's the beggining of the stock for both of us I'll SD too and we'll start again from there.

As far as tether recoveries go, people who main them know how to use them and shouldn't get into a situation like that. I'd be angry if I had the tether recovery and didn't get gimped for putting myself in that posistion to where he could get me. :/
 

chandy

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Yeah, holding back sucks. It makes them think that they're really good. I hate it if people go easy on me. I'm like, "If you go easy on me, I'm not playing."
ye but suppose like ur opponent suis twice becoz of lag... I sumtimes jump off for them coz otherwise ur obviously gonna win and ur opponent will think it harsh how he lost... I wudn't jump off in online tourneys etc. but it's honourable to sui for ur opponent and shows that u want a fair game...

But back to Ivysaur and Link's recovery tbh I don't think it's unfair to gimp them w/e the damage becoz it requires skill to do so just like most ppkl have sed...
 

Quail Man

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ye but suppose like ur opponent suis twice becoz of lag... I sumtimes jump off for them coz otherwise ur obviously gonna win and ur opponent will think it harsh how he lost... I wudn't jump off in online tourneys etc. but it's honourable to sui for ur opponent and shows that u want a fair game...

But back to Ivysaur and Link's recovery tbh I don't think it's unfair to gimp them w/e the damage becoz it requires skill to do so just like most ppkl have sed...
Ignoring the fact that online play sucks, wouldn't failing to adapt to lag be a mistake at the same level as any other? There's no reason to not capitalize on a lag-induced suicide when you would capitalize on any other mistake your opponent made, such as a missed up-B sweet-spot, or a missed tech. There's more "honour" in taking advantage of every mistake that your opponent makes than there is in not penalizing him for making a stupid mistake that was caused by his lack of skill.

No one said that gimping Ivysaur took skill. It's easy as hell to do. By the way, please learn to spell, or at least get a spell-checker.
 

Hydra.

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This has been over stated, but again A)Who is honestly gimped at 20 damage? B)It's the player's fault for putting themselves in a bad situation. And C)Letting your enemy be saved from their own mistake instead of gimping them is saying (it's okay you suck, I'll go easy on you) which is the biggest slap in the face you can do to some one (mentally). I do want to see how the rest of the Common Courtesy aspects to game play is. I want to see if I'm nice to people when I Brawl or not. Keep this up, m'lady. *bows*
Haha thankyou so much. ^^
Thats like the only positive comment ive gotten for making this board.
I thought it was a good idea but for a while I thought I was the only one that thought that.
:p
 

Hydra.

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I play Link, so I don't normally jump off to gimp them. I can edge hog, but I only do so if I'm feeling mean. 80% of the time, I don't edge guard at all (unless my opponent is really tough). I try to stay away from things that I consider cheap, including: Metaknight, edge hogging people with bad recoveries, excessively projectile spamming someone who is absolutely helpless against projectiles (like Ganondorf).

IMO, having good sportsmanship and a sense of honor are more important than winning. I wouldn't pick Dedede against DK and Bowser, I won't counterpick Rainbow Cruise against Link, etc. If you constantly play just to win, you'll run out of friends who want to play with you. You main focus should be to win only if you're going to get something out of it (as in a serious game). If you've got a very tough opponent, then by all means. If you know that your friend isn't as good as you, cut him a little slack so he can actually learn. They won't learn much from a 20 second game. Unless they tell me to go all-out, I'll hold back a bit.

You must also go easier on most girls, since they will lose interest if you keep destroying them. If they are as good or better than you, then you can go all-out.
Not for me. I have a friend I have known since smash came out. He is a Metaknight mainer and he beats me like everytime. But it just keeps me determind to get better and win.
 

The Mad Mage

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This thread gives me lulz. Tourneytards ban the use of items and every fun stage, but acting like a complete douche is fair game.

I'm sure as hell not going to gimp a tether recovery. Sorry, but I have this odd obsession with HAVING FUN while playing a VIDEO GAME. Gimping tether recoveries just ain't fun to me. Maybe as an Olimar user, I might be a little biased. But gimping tethers isn't a skillful way to win a match, nor is it fun to watch.
 

Nicole

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I play Link, so I don't normally jump off to gimp them. I can edge hog, but I only do so if I'm feeling mean. 80% of the time, I don't edge guard at all (unless my opponent is really tough). I try to stay away from things that I consider cheap, including: Metaknight, edge hogging people with bad recoveries, excessively projectile spamming someone who is absolutely helpless against projectiles (like Ganondorf).

IMO, having good sportsmanship and a sense of honor are more important than winning. I wouldn't pick Dedede against DK and Bowser, I won't counterpick Rainbow Cruise against Link, etc. If you constantly play just to win, you'll run out of friends who want to play with you. You main focus should be to win only if you're going to get something out of it (as in a serious game). If you've got a very tough opponent, then by all means. If you know that your friend isn't as good as you, cut him a little slack so he can actually learn. They won't learn much from a 20 second game. Unless they tell me to go all-out, I'll hold back a bit.

You must also go easier on most girls, since they will lose interest if you keep destroying them. If they are as good or better than you, then you can go all-out.
If you're playing friendlies or just for fun (like a Falcon free for all), then yeah, I don't do overly cheap stuff, and actually try to help people recover sometimes. BUT that all changes at a tournament, and you do have to practice the cheap stuff before the tournament so you can execute it, soooo...I usually play to win.

(and I resent that line about girls, if they're actually interested in getting better at the game, you can "destroy" them, but yeah, if they're just playing casually or because their boyfriend wants them to, then probably sandbag >_<)
 

Hydra.

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If a girl is just playing casually because of their boyfriend then they will sandbag themselfs. -_-
Be like: OMGISH!!! AHH I just fell off the edge because im ********. 0.0

Haha can you tell I hate preppy girls?

(Im putting the thread picture up today. But if you guys dont like it we can update it weekly/monthly or whatever.
 
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