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Yoshi v. Wolf
- Thread starter Shiri
- Start date
Really...? I could have sworn it was on the Wolf matchup...This is the thread for discussion on the Yoshi v. Peach matchup.
EDIT: I didn't realise what an unnecessary post this was untill after posting it...
Erm... Wolfs Fsmah makes me cry... *runs*
SharkAttack
Smash Lord
I've never played a Wolf in a tournament. This advice below is from playing several hundreads of friendlies against a Wolf main.
Wolf has beastly smashes all around. The most important thing I try to do in a match is avoid them. To do this I normally just shield, let him hit weaken the egg and then shield grab. This can be dangerous though because a good Wolf player will likely spot dodge the attempted shield grab. It's happened to me quite a bit. (Then again I'm probabally slow at pressing buttons). If their amatures though it should work. Even if you get grabbed it's better than getting smashed and taking 20% or dying at a low percentage (even though Yoshi has some weight on him.)
In the air I'm clueless what to do. Wolf's back air is so strong and his Forward air is great as well. I can generally flutter kick him for good damage when above though and out prioritize his up air.
I mainly KO with with Ground Pound when he dashes at me. It kills around 120%-130% at least.
Other than that I primarily get damage jabbing Wolf or pulling off shiled grabs.
Wolf has beastly smashes all around. The most important thing I try to do in a match is avoid them. To do this I normally just shield, let him hit weaken the egg and then shield grab. This can be dangerous though because a good Wolf player will likely spot dodge the attempted shield grab. It's happened to me quite a bit. (Then again I'm probabally slow at pressing buttons). If their amatures though it should work. Even if you get grabbed it's better than getting smashed and taking 20% or dying at a low percentage (even though Yoshi has some weight on him.)
In the air I'm clueless what to do. Wolf's back air is so strong and his Forward air is great as well. I can generally flutter kick him for good damage when above though and out prioritize his up air.
I mainly KO with with Ground Pound when he dashes at me. It kills around 120%-130% at least.
Other than that I primarily get damage jabbing Wolf or pulling off shiled grabs.
The |Egg| Sniper
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2006
- Messages
- 155
Wolf's Smash Spamming is one of the more frustrating bits of his game, as well as his gunning defense. If you're about two Wolf body lengths away though, you should be able to predict a ftilt/fsmash. Engaging Wolf from the air has been my best bet, whether he's on the ground or in the air. Sure, avoid being behind him while he's in the air, but from any other angle, Yoshi's got a much more solid move than Wolf. Fair on Wolf's part can be tricky though, and Wolf can time his uair properly and stop things from above, but that's only if the timing's just right.
Advancing bairs when you're relatively close, as well as a good Egg Lay to get him airborne are probably some good tips I can think of off the bat. I'm heading out of work now, so I'll come back and evaluate more on the strategy when I get home.
Advancing bairs when you're relatively close, as well as a good Egg Lay to get him airborne are probably some good tips I can think of off the bat. I'm heading out of work now, so I'll come back and evaluate more on the strategy when I get home.
Yeah, come to think of it, Wolf does have a pretty solid anti-Yoshi game.It's pretty frustrating, actually. He has an answer for every part of Yoshi's approach and defense game.
It's a good thing more characters can't do what Wolf does. Intelligent spam can basically win him the match.
Now I can see why PRiDE hate(d/s) this matchup. It's pretty silly.
Silent Beast
Smash Journeyman
I don't really know the matchup, but I'll throw a couple things in:
- Since Wolf's fsmash has multiple hits, you can DI (SDI?) up to avoid the last hit, which has the knockback.
- When Wolf's recovering, dair beats his side-B (and, I think, his up-B).
- Since Wolf's fsmash has multiple hits, you can DI (SDI?) up to avoid the last hit, which has the knockback.
- When Wolf's recovering, dair beats his side-B (and, I think, his up-B).
Metatitan
Smash Master
ew wolf. uhm id probly go jiggs just to rest his f smash 
for yoshi, does our jab outprioritize his f smash?
for yoshi, does our jab outprioritize his f smash?
Gindler
Smash Champion
I really don't mind his Fsmash, it's that **** laser and with his reflector I can't really egg camp so I have to approach usually leading to me getting grabbed which gets really annoying. Usually for wolf I just go Ness since I have a much easier time as Ness...all in all wolf just works to well against my play style and I just have a fairly hard time with it.
The last time I played a Wolf player, the biggest problem I had was getting around his bair. He seemed to enjoy intelligently spamming that, along with the down smash, which had more range and knock back than I anticipated. His laser was of course a bit of a hassle, as was his reflector, but those were things I could work around. The previous two moves I mentioned seemed to give me the most trouble, for sure. Ironically, I didn't have too many problems with the dreaded forward smash. He used it a bit, but I found it easy to spot dodge, for whatever reason.
I've heard that Yoshi's nair can help get around Wolf's bair since that match, but I haven't played any Wolf players since then, so I'm not entirely sure if that'd work. Yoshi's bair doesn't work against it, though, that I'm certain of.
That's about all I've got on this. It's more like I'm looking for help in this matchup than giving advice. I didn't do poorly against that player, but I didn't win either, so, yeah.
I've heard that Yoshi's nair can help get around Wolf's bair since that match, but I haven't played any Wolf players since then, so I'm not entirely sure if that'd work. Yoshi's bair doesn't work against it, though, that I'm certain of.
That's about all I've got on this. It's more like I'm looking for help in this matchup than giving advice. I didn't do poorly against that player, but I didn't win either, so, yeah.
Yo'ster
Smash Rookie
The biggest problem I've had against Wolf is approach. The Wolf I play against laser spams until I make my approach. Considering Wolf has the better KO moves, trading damage between laser and eggs isn't worth it. Therefore, the only choice is to get in close. However, Wolf's shielding will prevent nairs and misspaced dairs and bairs (and spacing can be difficult considering the laser). Wolf then follows this up with some smash happy time. On top of that, any time you do get in, Wolf can use the reflector to get you off his back.
Eating Wolf with B seems to be a decent approach, but using it consistently makes you predictable. Wolf really frustrates me...
Eating Wolf with B seems to be a decent approach, but using it consistently makes you predictable. Wolf really frustrates me...
Gindler
Smash Champion
I've done this once for a kill, it's about as reliable as cancelling and egglay with snake's cypher for a gimp (smart wolfs won't go off stage, or stay there long)
The |Egg| Sniper
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2006
- Messages
- 155
Eggs are not advisable on a Wolf that's trying to advance. The time for eggs to explode carries over to the reflected egg. Doing long range egg maybe once is good to get him coming towards you, without the threat of eating your own egg.
As I said before, controlling Wolf's airtime is the best bet. Meaning, instead of letting him initiate when he goes into the air, YOU initiate him going into the air, whether it be by means of ftilt, Usmash, grab, or egg lay. Be wary of Egg Lay though, don't rush in to hit the egg. He can pop out with a nasty bair or fair to the face. Keeping him above you while he's in the air and you're on the ground is probably your best best, keeping him guessing with eggs and usmashes. Purposely miss with eggs to make him engage a reflector, or pause your motions to make him think you're going to toss one.
Fsmash on Wolf has a nasty range, but in the midst of an advance, Ground Pound may save your bacon. If they both go off at the same time, Wolf's punished. That's a tad risky though, since it's timing reliant. I was going to suggest dash attack since it lasts, but that sounds punishable in my head as I think it >.<
Wolf is definitely tricky, but his main attractions are his bair and laser. Being patient on laser baiting/advancing is key.
As I said before, controlling Wolf's airtime is the best bet. Meaning, instead of letting him initiate when he goes into the air, YOU initiate him going into the air, whether it be by means of ftilt, Usmash, grab, or egg lay. Be wary of Egg Lay though, don't rush in to hit the egg. He can pop out with a nasty bair or fair to the face. Keeping him above you while he's in the air and you're on the ground is probably your best best, keeping him guessing with eggs and usmashes. Purposely miss with eggs to make him engage a reflector, or pause your motions to make him think you're going to toss one.
Fsmash on Wolf has a nasty range, but in the midst of an advance, Ground Pound may save your bacon. If they both go off at the same time, Wolf's punished. That's a tad risky though, since it's timing reliant. I was going to suggest dash attack since it lasts, but that sounds punishable in my head as I think it >.<
Wolf is definitely tricky, but his main attractions are his bair and laser. Being patient on laser baiting/advancing is key.
SharkAttack
Smash Lord
I agree with the air strategy you mentioned. When I have Wolf in the air attempting a recovery back to the ground I'll use that opportunity to toss eggs. Don't go dashing at him with a sliding upsmash though because he can use his reflector to hit you and then possibly get off a downsmash. Usually I'll toss 1 or 2 eggs. Dash at him but stop a character's distance away and wait for the reflector. After a slight delay I'll either grab Wolf or egg lay depending on what's best to mix up the gameplan.
Sometimes a dash attack can work well when Wolf hits the ground hard and attempts to get back up. Sometimes if I know he can't reflector I'll hit Wolf with a dash attack on his way down. This pushes him forward and lands him on the ground hard. Before he can get back up you can hit him once again with a dash attack. I can't promise this always works but I've done it quite a few times.
Scarlet Jile
Smash Lord
What Is This Red Font I See?
Yeaaaah. Wolf beats yoshi pretty badly. Your best bet is getting wolf above you, probably. Gimping is also a good idea, your nair should beat wolf's sideB, among other aerials. Punishing wolf's fsmash will be a bit more difficult because of your shield, but you can still do it. Baiting the shine works well too.
Alright, so I play a extremely good Wolf all the time. He's placed at 17th at two ECRC events. Mitsurugi. He plays with Chu and everyone, so yeah he's good. He ***** me all the time, I can beat him every now and then. But I find what works best is getting them above you. And taking advantage of utilt at low percents, below like 20% you can do Utilt-Uair-Utilt-Uair if they do not DI it well. Since Wolf's fall range isn't that far. Anyways, moving along. I'd like to make use of Bwett's spot dodge OOS here. On fsmash shield the first hit and then spot dodge the second. It makes punishing Fsmash loads easier. Also really helpful on nair combos. Shield the nair, and spotdode the reflector/dsmash/yaddah.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
I don't really mind Wolf's fsmash too much. Aside from how far it goes, I don't see much good in it to be quite honest. The knockback in that smash only comes from the last hit, and you are able to slightly DI out of getting hit with that last hit.
It's range is the main thing, but if first hit connects and second doesn't your tripped up. The knockback isn't that great, but can lead to another fsmash for more damage racking.
It's a real pain.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
True, true. It does bother a bit. However, I wouldn't depend on it too much if I were Wolf because of pivot grab.
Airborne
Smash Lord
and if you underestimate the range, god help you....
Wolf is the perfect counter for Yoshi...
http://yoshiartforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10928&sid=e034e64d6bb0bf4bbb25a2a63ef5179b&start=80
I wrote a little summary there on the matchup, but I now consider it generic information.
So I'm not going to post it here.
We need to approach and mindgame him perfectly. Whatever way is safe at that particular moment, we should do.
I have yet to face a Wolf that gave me problems. I'll look out for it though. >_>
http://yoshiartforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10928&sid=e034e64d6bb0bf4bbb25a2a63ef5179b&start=80
I wrote a little summary there on the matchup, but I now consider it generic information.
So I'm not going to post it here.
We need to approach and mindgame him perfectly. Whatever way is safe at that particular moment, we should do.
I have yet to face a Wolf that gave me problems. I'll look out for it though. >_>
Wolf is Pain :/
the most frustrating thing is that his downB interrupts each follow up.
his downsmash is pain,his bair is pain - his fsmash is annoying but it isn't that big problem if you're carefully.
mh something else..
the only advantage I see is the grab release to neutral B on the edge but this doesn't work on good Wolf Players I think xD
the most frustrating thing is that his downB interrupts each follow up.
his downsmash is pain,his bair is pain - his fsmash is annoying but it isn't that big problem if you're carefully.
mh something else..
the only advantage I see is the grab release to neutral B on the edge but this doesn't work on good Wolf Players I think xD
Poltergust
Smash Master
Wolf just sucks. I haven't even bothered playing against him as Yoshi offline (I use Zelda instead), so I don't know the match-up.
However, there are a few good stages to counterpick against him. Halberd is one, becuase it messes with his recovery (and that stage is a good Yoshi stage, too). Frigate Orpheon is also a good counterpick because the stage layout doesn't favor Wolf (and recovering is a pain for him there, too). The best neutral stage to fight him in is Lylat Cruise because of it's awkward layout (although most Wolves would probably strike that stage in the first match).
However, there are a few good stages to counterpick against him. Halberd is one, becuase it messes with his recovery (and that stage is a good Yoshi stage, too). Frigate Orpheon is also a good counterpick because the stage layout doesn't favor Wolf (and recovering is a pain for him there, too). The best neutral stage to fight him in is Lylat Cruise because of it's awkward layout (although most Wolves would probably strike that stage in the first match).