When Control Goes Way Too Far

Teran · Mar 3, 2009

Link to original post: [drupal=1200]When Control Goes Way Too Far[/drupal]

Well hello there everyone. It seems that my title has a somewhat grave and serious tone to it. Well that's because I've learned something extremely disturbing today.

So what could it be? Did I get CCTV installed in my bathroom or something? Well not exactly, but it's probably just as disgraceful an idea.

Today in double French, my teacher (also head of 6th Form [Senior High]) suddenly said as we were logging on to do listening language exercises, "By the way, do you know I have a new spy application where it logs everything that you type that's deemed inappropriate? Even more, it captures the screen and sends it to me and gives me a wonderful database. If you work now, I'll show it to you at the end of the period."

Thus, we work as hard as we ever have to get a look at this disgusting new software. At the end, he feeds his computer activity to all our monitors, and we watch in horror and amazement as he shows us this ridiculous keylogging application, which has already alerted him to several pupils writing "inappropriate" words. It has the login name of the student, with the offending parameter on the right. I must admit, it was rather funny, seeing words like "pubes", "c*ck", "f***" etc, plastered all over the screen. However, what really got me was that a lot of these things were written in personal emails. Also, the n-word was caught, but that was due to it being featured in an English essay.

What makes me happy is that the teacher who was showing us this app had absolutely no support for it. He told us just what we were thinking. "What the hell do I care what people write in personal emails or indeed what they even write or search up on the internet? Emails are a completely private and personal thing, I have no right to be able to even take a look at them."

He went on to tell us that the school was trying to clamp down on cyber bullying, but I mean, how the hell is this going to help? They say the main culprit is Facebook, but Facebook is blocked in school. So, why would such a sophisticated keylogger be necessary? Our teacher said something even more disturbing "If you think that was bad, that's just 1% of what it can do. I'm getting a visit from Big Brother tomorrow who's going to tell us how this all works."

So now we're going to have a Gestapo mainframe in our school, snooping on practically everything we do. It can send alerts for perfectly innocently intentioned things, so all we get out of this software are prying eyes watching everything we do. Considering my school is one of the most free thinking and less uptight schools when it comes to censorship, this whole idea baffles me. This really is Big Brother. Now people will be able to read my personal emails because I may have written the word f*** or something, is that really fair? Can you really police the mind of a teenager, or in my case, a young adult? I'm supposed to be a free member of society, but I'm being treated like a 5 year old being taught by Jesuits.

Perhaps having alerts for students looking for pornography or something of that nature wouldn't be such an issue, but such a ridiculously extensive list of parameters that could send for an alert is beyond disgraceful. Many of us have started a boycott of the school computer network. Quite frankly, if we're going to be governed in Nazi fashion, then I have no need to use those computers.

Are we allowed to police minds? Is it acceptable to have such incredibly sophisticated snooping power? What do you guys think?

I think it's insulting above anything else, that they can't see us as responsible and mature students, that they have to log and capture our activities if we type something dubious, but oh well, it's today's world.

Thank you for reading this horrendous wall of text

finalark · Mar 3, 2009

So they watch your every move with (more or less) spy ware? If they really didn't want students to be looking up or accessing anything they would deem inappropriate wouldn't a typical blocking program work just fine? Why go to such extremes?

:mad: · Mar 3, 2009

I can't stand people that screw one thing up, and ruin it for everyone else. Kind of like how everything works on here. A few bad threads ruined this place.

Great read, Teran. I'm glad someone also feels so strongly about the school system. Good job.

Firus · Mar 3, 2009

Holy CRAP, what the hell? That's not even LEGITIMATE.

"OHMYGODGUISE, THAY SED A SWARE WERD, LEZ SEE WUT THAYR UP TOO!"

Nonetheless, I'm going to say just...don't use the school computers for anything personal. On one hand that seems completely unfair, but on the other hand they are the school's computers. Keyloggers and such are pretty extensive, but I'm not entirely sure why one would send a personal email from school anyways, other than to send a file.

This is just on the school computers, correct? I mean, if they start tracking kids' computers at home then I'll really be outraged, but if it's just the school computers it's a little baffling and surprising, but after thought not really all that bad.

EDIT: Not to seem too lenient here. Seeing as I just recently read 1984 (how I just got around to that, I'm not sure), I'm more against this kind of crap than anything. But, while I know that everyone uses school computers for something personal at some point in their life (I'm guilty of that myself), that's not really what they're intended for. If they track what you're writing in an essay, it's not all that big of a deal. If they're going to track what you're writing in personal emails, just do it at home.

Skrah · Mar 3, 2009

I agree 200% with you.

My school is implementing a similar system. They can check our school e-mails, what sites we check, and even hack our facebook accounts.

MBreeto · Mar 3, 2009

That is ridiculous. Why the school thinks key-logging is a cure for "cyber-bullying" is beyond me. Emails are strictly personal, and hell, don't people get sent to jail for hacking into people's email accounts (famous people that is)? The term "cyber-bullying" is also a stupid term. If someone is bothering you on the internet, you can block them. You don't let them get into your head because all the people "bullying" are doing is showing how weak they are by having to hide behind the protection of their computer. I'd get your school together and do something to get rid of that program because it is completely unnecessary. I'm mad now lol.

Teran · Mar 3, 2009

FirustheHedgehog said:
This is just on the school computers, correct? I mean, if they start tracking kids' computers at home then I'll really be outraged, but if it's just the school computers it's a little baffling and surprising, but after thought not really all that bad.

This is just on school computers, but still, for example, if you have an email message window open, and then you write an "inappropriate" word anywhere, be they completely innocently intentioned, they'll get an alert, a multi capture of your activities, and a livestream of your activities. Nice.

Skrah said:
I agree 200% with you.

My school is implementing a similar system. They can check our school e-mails, what sites we check, and even hack our facebook accounts.

They can check anything we do. Hell, if our email passwords have "inappropriate" words in them, they'll get a complete log of it. So now they have our personal information that's pretty illegal to obtain.

Sieg Heil mein Fuehrer

Tektite · Mar 3, 2009

Now everything is getting way too personal.

Deleted member · Mar 3, 2009

Although I agree with some control over sites you visit, that's going WAAAAY too far. That has to break some kind of law.

Firus · Mar 3, 2009

Skrah said:
I agree 200% with you.

My school is implementing a similar system. They can check our school e-mails, what sites we check, and even hack our facebook accounts.

What...the...hell...?! Jeez, they're like official, government-hired hackers. Next thing you know they're going to send a virus through any emails you send...

Despite their beliefs, it is not their job to police kids/teens. Bullying sucks, but it's quite easy to avoid "cyber-bullying" and I wouldn't be willing to give up my freedoms to avoid bullying.

MBreeto]The term "cyber-bullying" is also a stupid term. If someone is bothering you on the internet said:
This is just on school computers, but still, for example, if you have an email message window open, and then you write an "inappropriate" word anywhere, be they completely innocently intentioned, they'll get an alert, a multi capture of your activities, and a livestream of your activities. Nice.

They can check anything we do. Hell, if our email passwords have "inappropriate" words in them, they'll get a complete log of it. So now they have our personal information that's pretty illegal to obtain.

Sieg Heil mein Fuehrer

Yeah...on second thought, this could be the first step. Next thing you know they'll keep records of who uses computers and do the same system for libraries and other official places and next thing you know we'll have telescreens and microphones everywhere and kids will be trained to rat on their parents for bashing people currently in office.

DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER.

Thanks for the blog Teran. It was a good read and this is something I'm not hearing anywhere on the news that should be broadcast everywhere.

God, now I feel like the entire world is going to hell in a hand basket. If this course keeps up...it will.

bobson · Mar 3, 2009

It's a school computer; they are completely in the right to do what they want with their network. This is like complaining because the security camera in Starbucks could record you as you type in the password to your bank account. If you don't want your personal emails being logged, don't write them on a logged computer. You aren't being forced to use your personal data on the school computers.
If you are, then I'm mistaken, and this is certainly a breach of privacy. But otherwise, this is entirely their right.

That said, it's a bull**** solution for an imagined problem. If you want something done, do something about it; contact the IT team in charge of it or flood the system with so much irrelevant garbage that it can't really be used anyway.

mzink* · Mar 3, 2009

Wow that's infuriating. Seriously don't use their computers at all for anything remotely personal if possible. That is past being wrong.

ndayday · Mar 3, 2009

Your school should of listened to Maxfire's advice.

Miggz · Mar 3, 2009

In one sense I think its pretty messed up. I'm sure some students don't even have computers at home so not being able to have a little privacy really sucks. Its so annoying when people try to use these overwhelming methods of curing a basic problem. Its like canceling lunch time at the cafeteria because majority of the students refuse to give in home work.

Why couldn't they just be normal and simply block the sites "like Facebook" from their system. That alone should be sufficient. But what many don't realize is that their over-the-wall methods just leads to more problems. At my old high school school they would simply block the "game and chat sites" and left everything else alone. Although, I vaguely remember the librarian having the ability to look at student's screens to see what it is he or she was doing. So I suppose its understandable to some degree if librarians can do it. But for the school as a whole? Yeah that is pretty messed up.

But I suppose at the end of the day, it is THEIR computers. Not much you can do, right? I'd simply recommend you be careful at what you look up at your school. Of course, you don't need me to tell you that.

lol

Jenkins · Mar 3, 2009

wow. way to go school

Zook · Mar 3, 2009

You shouldn't be using school computers for private emails in the first place.

bobson said:
It's a school computer; they are completely in the right to do what they want with their network. This is like complaining because the security camera in Starbucks could record you as you type in the password to your bank account. If you don't want your personal emails being logged, don't write them on a logged computer. You aren't being forced to use your personal data on the school computers.
If you are, then I'm mistaken, and this is certainly a breach of privacy. But otherwise, this is entirely their right.

^^ This guy beat me to what I was going to say.

My school blocks words like 'game' from being searched/being in URLs and the computer guy (I don't know his 'title,' I just call him Mr. Hatchet) can see what is going on on your screen, but I get along just fine. I don't see the big deal here.

Ishiey · Mar 3, 2009

^ If schools are in control of everything in their boundaries, they can pretty much make us forfeit all the rights we have, to an extent. That's not a good thing.

Idk, they do have the right, but they're going SO overboard. Protesting sounds good.

Miggz · Mar 3, 2009

Yeah you would probably need one large partition to beat this.

But it sounds like something not all the students should even be aware of.

Kind of like some random underground project.

lol

The furosious robot has left · Mar 3, 2009

That is just wrong. I mean, seriously. I would hope such a thing would be... illegal.

S.B.Soldier · Mar 4, 2009

hmm you should be able to bypass it by getting into the CTRL+ALT+DELETE menu into processes, thus finding the program that runs the keylogger, just end the running session on it... As for the blocking of facebook, google free ip adresses that work on any computer (from other regions)... if you can change that, sometimes it will bypass the security block... also one more thing try adding a period at the end of "facebook.com" to make it "facebook.com." that period may do the trick... these are tricks that bypassed my high schools security blocks when i was in HS

Teran · Mar 4, 2009

S.B.Soldier said:
hmm you should be able to bypass it by getting into the CTRL+ALT+DELETE menu into processes, thus finding the program that runs the keylogger, just end the running session on it... As for the blocking of facebook, google free ip adresses that work on any computer (from other regions)... if you can change that, sometimes it will bypass the security block... also one more thing try adding a period at the end of "facebook.com" to make it "facebook.com." that period may do the trick... these are tricks that bypassed my high schools security blocks when i was in HS

Taskmanager is a forbidden program on our login. We have a ridiculously sophisticated filter now. We bypassed it in previous years, but they've discovered all our methods and covered all their bases.

Anway, the program not just a keylogger, it records any inappropriate words on the screen too, I don't think I made that clear. You say you shouldn't be visitng personal email, but a lot of us attach documents to send to ourselves or our friends for us to do what we need to in school. If there are any buzzwords on the screen, our inbox will get captured.

Also, they've had direct control for a while, although it was only used really during lessons to show you what to do or to stop you from playing games. Our school blocked everything though, so I see no reason to do this. Last year though, I was just doing some Physics Coursework on a school laptop in Physics class, and I kina got bored and went on some silly sites. A subtle flicker of the screen (that most don't notice) indicated that I was now being monitored. So I typed on Word "Stop Watching Me!" and then the fat b*stard IT manager hijacked my computer.

People who say we shouldn't be writing personal emails. Fine ok, maybe not, but being constantly monitored and under scrutiny writing buzzwords is unacceptable. One student's activites were captured multiple times with this program for using the word "snatch" in a word documrnt. Now forgive me if I'm wrong, but why the f*** should you have the right to start snooping around and monitoring a boy for writing "snatch". Because that's... so offensive. It's not like anyone even does anything inappropriate on the school computers anyway. Nobody looks up porn or stuff like that, it's not the environment, people know that. Sure games shouldn't be played, but the filters now are perfectly sufficient, and cyber bullying is NOT going to be prevented at all by this contraption. All social networking sites are blocked on our computers, so I really don't see the necessity of such extreme measures.

It's not that I don't want to obey the rules or something, it's just that I feel really insulted that the school management, after so many years of bragging on about how amazing a school we are and our fantastic successes in academia, why they wouldn't give us enough respect, and treat us like responsible enough students not to do these things. This program only shows how little respect the management has for us, and that principle is what irks me the most about this program.

Mith_ · Mar 4, 2009

They are trying to steal all of your WoW passwords. I'm sure this is the same program that chinese keyloggers use. Does it alert you when you've violated a rule like saying a curse word? I accidentally got a keylogger on my dads computer when I didn't know any better and I couldn't access the task manager.

The thing I hate about school is that they treat the students like they have no self control and need to have everything blocked. With all the security software on you guys computers its really no point in using the school computers. What's so bad about Myspace and facebook that you can't look at them at school? Same with forums. And so what if a student is playing a game during class time? If he is then you obviously haven't given him/her enough work since they have time to play games or get on a social network. School systems really need to rethink their way of "computer security".

The furosious robot has left · Mar 4, 2009

is "gay" caught as inappropriate?
because from litterally every public school I have ever seen, they think that is a bad thing to say. if it is, sue them.

Teran · Mar 4, 2009

The furosious robot has left said:
is "gay" caught as inappropriate?
because from litterally every public school I have ever seen, they think that is a bad thing to say. if it is, sue them.

Yes it is, lol. By the way, this happens to be City of London school, if that may be of any relevance to you.

The furosious robot has left · Mar 4, 2009

Teran17 said:
By the way, this happens to be City of London school, if that may be of any relevance to you.

USA ftl. I would much rather be in one of the 3:
England
Australia
Japan

Teran · Mar 4, 2009

The furosious robot has left said:
USA ftl. I would much rather be in one of the 3:
England
Australia
Japan

Lol forget Japan.

Xenophobia galore.

|RK| · Mar 4, 2009

Eh, all of my teachers can watch whatever I'm doing on my computer. And I go to public school. Oh, and they still shouldn't be checking personal stuff. If a girl is dressing/undressing in your bathroom, does it make it any more right to open the door and watch? I don't think so, because it's still her body. Can you **** someone because they are in your house/on your lawn? No, you can't.

Asdioh · Mar 4, 2009

Teran17 said:
Perhaps having alerts for students looking for pornography or something of that nature wouldn't be such an issue, but such a ridiculously extensive list of parameters that could send for an alert is beyond disgraceful. Many of us have started a boycott of the school computer network. Quite frankly, if we're going to be governed in Nazi fashion, then I have no need to use those computers. [/COLOR]

First of all, think about the fact that they can expand these "parameters" or "buzzwords" to just about ANY word, means that they can start watching your every action, naughty or no. Yes, this sounds like the first (or whatever number we're on by now) step towards the "Big Brother" society.

And yes, boycotting sounds like a brilliant idea.

FirustheHedgehog said:
Nonetheless, I'm going to say just...don't use the school computers for anything personal. On one hand that seems completely unfair, but on the other hand they are the school's computers. Keyloggers and such are pretty extensive, but I'm not entirely sure why one would send a personal email from school anyways, other than to send a file.

This is just on the school computers, correct? I mean, if they start tracking kids' computers at home then I'll really be outraged, but if it's just the school computers it's a little baffling and surprising, but after thought not really all that bad.

Yes, the fact that they ARE the school's computers appealed to me at first, and I thought "well, the computers aren't ours in the first place.."

But I really think this is one of those few cases where the "slippery slope" argument truly applies: it can only get worse from here. Eventually, it might upgrade from schools, to local or federal government. This needs to stop immediately :/

Miggz said:
In one sense I think its pretty messed up. I'm sure some students don't even have computers at home so not being able to have a little privacy really sucks.

This is true...

Ishieymoro said:
^ If schools are in control of everything in their boundaries, they can pretty much make us forfeit all the rights we have, to an extent. That's not a good thing.

Idk, they do have the right, but they're going SO overboard. Protesting sounds good.

Yesh

Teran17 said:
Lol forget Japan.

Xenophobia galore.

*looks up xenophobia*

Sounds like a matter of opinion, depending on who you ask.

I've been told that the Japanese girls love foreign guys, and that's all that matters to me

<3

Firus · Mar 4, 2009

Asdioh said:
Yes, the fact that they ARE the school's computers appealed to me at first, and I thought "well, the computers aren't ours in the first place.."

But I really think this is one of those few cases where the "slippery slope" argument truly applies: it can only get worse from here. Eventually, it might upgrade from schools, to local or federal government. This needs to stop immediately :/

Yep, which is why I later said...

FirustheHedgehog said:
Yeah...on second thought, this could be the first step. Next thing you know they'll keep records of who uses computers and do the same system for libraries and other official places and next thing you know we'll have telescreens and microphones everywhere and kids will be trained to rat on their parents for bashing people currently in office.

DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER.

Asdioh · Mar 4, 2009

Forgive me, many words exist in this thread, and I read all of them. I press the "multiquote" button, and by the time I'm done, I go back to the huge long quote that I only wanted a part of, and I'm like "now I have to read it again and figure out what it was I wanted to quote exactly"

T_T

It took me forever to find the part of the OP that I wanted to quote. And I just noticed that I left [/color] in there. But I don't feel like editing it.

Firus · Mar 4, 2009

Asdioh said:
Forgive me, many words exist in this thread, and I read all of them. I press the "multiquote" button, and by the time I'm done, I go back to the huge long quote that I only wanted a part of, and I'm like "now I have to read it again and figure out what it was I wanted to quote exactly"

T_T

It took me forever to find the part of the OP that I wanted to quote. And I just noticed that I left [/color] in there. But I don't feel like editing it.

Oh no, it was actually in a different post, I'm not necessarily surprised you missed it. I just wanted to point it out to you so you knew I had changed my mind.

Zook · Mar 4, 2009

RK Joker said:
Eh, all of my teachers can watch whatever I'm doing on my computer. And I go to public school. Oh, and they still shouldn't be checking personal stuff. If a girl is dressing/undressing in your bathroom, does it make it any more right to open the door and watch? I don't think so, because it's still her body. Can you **** someone because they are in your house/on your lawn? No, you can't.

But they aren't checking your personal space. The girl metaphor doesn't work, because this isn't the kid's personal computer.

It's more like a girl undressing in the middle of a cafeteria and asking her to stop it.

**** is a bit extreme in this case.

Firus · Mar 4, 2009

Zook said:
It's more like a girl undressing in the middle of a cafeteria and asking her to stop it.

That's not a good comparison, since by doing whatever on school computers you're not forcing anyone to look at what you're doing. They're the ones putting keyloggers on the computer.

Zook · Mar 4, 2009

FirustheHedgehog said:
That's not a good comparison, since by doing whatever on school computers you're not forcing anyone to look at what you're doing. They're the ones putting keyloggers on the computer.

I was trying to relate to Joker's comparison.

Sonic Phantom · Mar 4, 2009

Skrah said:
I agree 200% with you.

My school is implementing a similar system. They can check our school e-mails, what sites we check, and even hack our facebook accounts.

They do not have to hack facebook account because facebook itself is in full cooperation with the public school system. If anything illegal is done on the campus and has pictures posted on facebook of the event. Well, facebook notifies the school about the act. I have a perfect example of this...the art history class at my high school went on a field trip to Chicago and later posted pictures of them drinking while on the trip. Well, these photos are seen as breaking school rules because all rules that are on the campus apply to students who are on a school sponsored field trips also. Facebook sent those pictures to the school. However, this does not just stop with school, because if businesses want to background check a potential employee they go through facebook. They have unrestricted access to your account and everything that you post no matter what privacy features that are turned on. Those "security" features are only there for the average joe. Corporations work hand in hand with facebook. Moral of the story is do not post things on facebook that you do not want public.

Ishieymoro said:
^ If schools are in control of everything in their boundaries, they can pretty much make us forfeit all the rights we have, to an extent. That's not a good thing.

Idk, they do have the right, but they're going SO overboard. Protesting sounds good.

I think it is this way. Once you step on a school campus you lose all your rights to their system. Least that is the why I hear it described when talking about it to the faculty.

Zook · Mar 4, 2009

Just a question, but exactly what 'rights' are you talking about? I keep on hearing that 'your rights' are being taken away, but which rights? The right to free speech on the internet? The right to privacy on puplic computers?

Last time I checked, schools have the right to censor certain rights and privlages, including freedom of speech.

Sonic Phantom · Mar 5, 2009

Zook said:
Just a question, but exactly what 'rights' are you talking about? I keep on hearing that 'your rights' are being taken away, but which rights? The right to free speech on the internet? The right to privacy on public computers?

Last time I checked, schools have the right to censor certain rights and privileges, including freedom of speech.

Maybe your recollection is more accurate; though school faculty will not tell you which ones you have and do not have on "their" campus. They are the superior authority, which is why I thought pretty much all your constitutional rights are voided once you step foot on campus or just the bill of rights... I know from experience that the first amendment is out the window, obviously the second, this thread applies to the fourth amendment (major part of the rights to privacy laid down by the Supreme Court), and the fifth amendment since my sister was forced to self-incriminate which ties hand in hand with the sixth amendment (rights of the accused).

Teran · Mar 6, 2009

The constitution and bill of rights mean nothing to me (I live in England). We are all fully aware that we have next to no rights on the school premises. However, it's a matter of mutual trust and respect.

I like to think of it this way. Whenever we have school duties, ie homework/coursework assignments, they must be done, and if they aren't, "You're men now, not boys, but adults. You are mature enough to be in control of your own learning. We aren't going to hold your hand the whole way." So basically, they're saying "You're old enough when it suits us."

This is quite apparent, as their ridiculous surveillance methods are something you'd enforce upon children who you'd deem have no control over their actions, and need these sanctions in place to keep in line. If we're mature enough to be in control of our own learning, we're mature enough not to type stuff like "Britney Spears xxx" on Google Images.

Actions say far more than words, and this action just showed that school management has absolutely no respect for us. That's the problem. I don't care about my human rights to freedom of speech and all that crap, mainly because freedom of speech is a myth and does not exist anyway. What I DO care about, is an environment of trust and respect that I thought had existed. Alas, I was mistaken.

DarkLouis331 · Mar 6, 2009

Seriously...who effing cares if someone uses a cuss word or not? I personally don't use them in public. But I'm okay with people using them jokingly as long as its not used in a personal attack.

PrepareYourself · Mar 6, 2009

This makes me scared. I remember attacking one of my teachers on the interwebz

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