KrazyGlue
Smash Champion
Topics for discussion
Chomp is a really versatile and useful grab move that is often underused. Sooo.... I made this thread to discuss some of its uses, such as:
1. Which projectiles can it eat and at what distances? Which ones does it not work on?
2. Is a Wariocide possible with chomp?
3. Does it outprioritize all other grabs?
4. What moves does chomp not outprioritize?
Some of these are in the guide but fell free to help test them.
Bite Guide
Okay, I'm not going to explain what chomp is, since you can probably find most of the general info you need at either smashboards or smashwiki:
Boards: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224269 (MC's Wario Guide)
Wiki: http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Chomp
Ok, you'll see a lot of underlined things that say something like "requires testing". They're like that just so I (or anyone who wants to help) can quickly scan through the guide and see what I need to finish up.
Projectiles that wario can eat:
See smashwiki. In case you're too lazy, it's basically anything that can be picked up (but the wiki has more info so you should probably check). If wario eats an explosive item, he will take 6% damage, which never changes. From my testing, it took 38 frames for him to go through the whole animation (starting with when he starts swallowing until he is standing normally).
If you eat an explosive, nearby opponents will be hit for 13% damage with some good knockback. On the edge of final destination, mario will die if he is hit at 60% or more with no DI. From the middle of the stage, mario will die at 92% with no DI. However, with items turned off, the only two explosives that can be eaten are Snake's grenades and Link/Toon Link's bombs. While this may not have much practical use, it could be used occasionally as a surprise KO.
At some point, I will put the amount of frames it takes to eat the different projectiles, but that will probably come last since it's not as important as some of the other things.
Does it outprioritize all other grabs?
Almost. It outprioritizes all regular grabs. In addition, there are 4 special grabs (chomp, Bowser's side b, Yoshi's neutral b, and Ganondorf's side b). It outprioritizes gannondorf's, but not bowser's or yoshi's. However, chomp comes out faster, so you can often catch them during their startup animation. The only one I'm not 100% sure about is Bowser's side b... it's hard to test. I think it has higher priority but feel free to test it and tell me what you find.
Moves that chomp does not outprioritize (incomplete):
Luigi's down b
Bowser's side b (special grab)
Yoshi's neutral b (special grab)
ROB's side b? (hasn't been tested)
Also, most moves will damage Wario if he is hit by them right before he chomps, but they will trade hitboxes and he will only suffer damage; there is no knockback and the chomp will still happen normally.
Frame data:
MC's guide has it... use the link above.
Also, from my data, Chomp first grabs people in the 11th frame.
Is a wariocide possible using chomp?
Possible, yes. Likely, no. Most good people, as Straked said, can DI out of it pretty quickly. But with a good setup and high damage on the opponent, it could probably work. Just don't count on it. You could also try to drop them off below the middle of the stage and if they have a poor recovery, watch them fall to their doom. Wario could possible survive this, due to his excellent horizontal air movement. He is, after all, able to safely travel under Final Destination even without the use of his down b.
Amount of bites possible based on damage:
0-9%- 7 bites
10-49%- 8 bites
50-69%- 9 bites
70-109%- 10 bites
110-149%-11 bites
Unless someone can come up with a good reason for me to do further testing, I probably won't test the amounts of bites possible past this. If your opponent has 160 damage you should worry less about what percent you can get them to and more about the fact that you can easily kill them at this point. Thus, further testing is unnecessary. I will, however, allow others to contribute further data if they wish to
.
Each bite does 2 damage and the automatic throw at the end does 5. So if someone is a good button masher, they could do 40+ damge with just two chomps. Unfortunately, good button mashers can escape fast as well. You'll probably only get a few bites on a good player.
Other interesting info:
At the edge of Final Destination, with the maximum amount of bites and the throw at the end (automatic), Mario can be killed at 231% (when you first grab him).
Sometimes, Wario's duration for holding the opponent will be much shorter than normal. I have not found a logical explanation for it and it seems to happen randomly. Any helpful information about this is greatly appreciated.
I'm willing to accept suggestions for things to add (other than to finish testing), but that's all for now.
Credits (other than myself):
Straked and DemonFart, for suggesting a bite guide.
MorphedChaos, for the wario guide
YagamiDark, for the trading hitboxes part
stnapknah, for some bite info
Chomp is a really versatile and useful grab move that is often underused. Sooo.... I made this thread to discuss some of its uses, such as:
1. Which projectiles can it eat and at what distances? Which ones does it not work on?
2. Is a Wariocide possible with chomp?
3. Does it outprioritize all other grabs?
4. What moves does chomp not outprioritize?
Some of these are in the guide but fell free to help test them.
Bite Guide
Okay, I'm not going to explain what chomp is, since you can probably find most of the general info you need at either smashboards or smashwiki:
Boards: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224269 (MC's Wario Guide)
Wiki: http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Chomp
Ok, you'll see a lot of underlined things that say something like "requires testing". They're like that just so I (or anyone who wants to help) can quickly scan through the guide and see what I need to finish up.
Projectiles that wario can eat:
See smashwiki. In case you're too lazy, it's basically anything that can be picked up (but the wiki has more info so you should probably check). If wario eats an explosive item, he will take 6% damage, which never changes. From my testing, it took 38 frames for him to go through the whole animation (starting with when he starts swallowing until he is standing normally).
If you eat an explosive, nearby opponents will be hit for 13% damage with some good knockback. On the edge of final destination, mario will die if he is hit at 60% or more with no DI. From the middle of the stage, mario will die at 92% with no DI. However, with items turned off, the only two explosives that can be eaten are Snake's grenades and Link/Toon Link's bombs. While this may not have much practical use, it could be used occasionally as a surprise KO.
At some point, I will put the amount of frames it takes to eat the different projectiles, but that will probably come last since it's not as important as some of the other things.
Does it outprioritize all other grabs?
Almost. It outprioritizes all regular grabs. In addition, there are 4 special grabs (chomp, Bowser's side b, Yoshi's neutral b, and Ganondorf's side b). It outprioritizes gannondorf's, but not bowser's or yoshi's. However, chomp comes out faster, so you can often catch them during their startup animation. The only one I'm not 100% sure about is Bowser's side b... it's hard to test. I think it has higher priority but feel free to test it and tell me what you find.
Moves that chomp does not outprioritize (incomplete):
Luigi's down b
Bowser's side b (special grab)
Yoshi's neutral b (special grab)
ROB's side b? (hasn't been tested)
Also, most moves will damage Wario if he is hit by them right before he chomps, but they will trade hitboxes and he will only suffer damage; there is no knockback and the chomp will still happen normally.
Frame data:
MC's guide has it... use the link above.
Also, from my data, Chomp first grabs people in the 11th frame.
Is a wariocide possible using chomp?
Possible, yes. Likely, no. Most good people, as Straked said, can DI out of it pretty quickly. But with a good setup and high damage on the opponent, it could probably work. Just don't count on it. You could also try to drop them off below the middle of the stage and if they have a poor recovery, watch them fall to their doom. Wario could possible survive this, due to his excellent horizontal air movement. He is, after all, able to safely travel under Final Destination even without the use of his down b.
Amount of bites possible based on damage:
0-9%- 7 bites
10-49%- 8 bites
50-69%- 9 bites
70-109%- 10 bites
110-149%-11 bites
Unless someone can come up with a good reason for me to do further testing, I probably won't test the amounts of bites possible past this. If your opponent has 160 damage you should worry less about what percent you can get them to and more about the fact that you can easily kill them at this point. Thus, further testing is unnecessary. I will, however, allow others to contribute further data if they wish to
.Each bite does 2 damage and the automatic throw at the end does 5. So if someone is a good button masher, they could do 40+ damge with just two chomps. Unfortunately, good button mashers can escape fast as well. You'll probably only get a few bites on a good player.
Other interesting info:
At the edge of Final Destination, with the maximum amount of bites and the throw at the end (automatic), Mario can be killed at 231% (when you first grab him).
Sometimes, Wario's duration for holding the opponent will be much shorter than normal. I have not found a logical explanation for it and it seems to happen randomly. Any helpful information about this is greatly appreciated.
I'm willing to accept suggestions for things to add (other than to finish testing), but that's all for now.
Credits (other than myself):
Straked and DemonFart, for suggesting a bite guide.
MorphedChaos, for the wario guide
YagamiDark, for the trading hitboxes part
stnapknah, for some bite info
