Pokedex Entry #whatever: Zero Suit Samus

Steeler · Mar 5, 2009

i like watching her play

i do not like playing her though

ivysaur gets fire weaked

squirtle does pretty well but zss technically has a grab release infinite on him..............if non-wall infinites are banned though, then it's alright. squirtle has good shield pressure.

charizard does pretty well, flamethrower has about the same range as zss's side b or perhaps a little more, and cancels out suit armor at the beginning of the match.

que piensan?

Adriel · Mar 6, 2009

Start off as squartle and spam that jab.

CHOMPY · Mar 6, 2009

If you play Squirtle and your using those broken parts. You can use those parts like your playing Diddy Kong. I beilve you can water gun her when she pulls out the down B move but im not certain on that. If that worked, you can edgeguard and she couldnt grab the edge with the Up B.

45-55 in ZSS's Favor

I have no idea how to approach her with Ivysaur, all I do is spam razor leaves and the back air. Other than that im pretty much toast because of the weakness factor to fire. Such as the Plasma Whip and I think her smash attacks are classified as fire.

20-80 in ZSS's Favor

Charizard is difficult for me to approach ZSS because of her plasma whip side B. Flamethrower like you said blocks the broken parts she tries to throw at you but if you see her trying to spam the dsmash, flamethrower her to death. Being that Charizard is a big size he gets comboed easily and gets hit easily by her plasma gun (B) move.

30-70 in ZSS's Favor

Overrall your better off using a different character against her or simply just keep on practicing the matchup. Dont take her to Lylat or Pokemon Stadium 1.

Steeler · Mar 6, 2009

i think just the side b is classified as fire

remember, squirtle lives longer because of it too!

charizard gets combo'd in the air. stay grounded and use that dash speed imo

i dislike the fact that usually squirtle's all YES SEXY JAB and then zss's jab is just as fast. :\

Adriel · Mar 6, 2009

Yes, but squartle's jab goes through zss's.

canthandletheSpeculosity · Mar 6, 2009

I agree with everything Chompy said. Squirtle is pretty much the only difficult character with PT. His attacks are quick and have priority over some of ours. Charizard and Ivy are easy. I say just switch to Squirtle whenever you can. Don't go on stages that give us a lot of aerial advantage like Lylat. I guess your best cp for us would be frigate. I would say jungle japes but I always ban that.

DeliciousCake · Mar 6, 2009

Ivysaur really has almost no chance against ZSS. Charizard has weight on his side, but he's fairly easy to abuse. Squirtle definitely is the biggest problem. He's small and fast enough that trying to approach with Plasma Whip can be made difficult, and his aerials are pretty good.

FadedImage · Mar 6, 2009

from previous experience, I agree a lot with previous posts. Squirtle is annoying as eff considering he's so fast. Ivysaur is cake, since you can edgeguard like crazy. Charizard is an easy juggle, but he's got the rock, which is scary.

and yeah, technically we have a standing infinite on Squirtle, but it's pretty hard, and it's a pummel infinite, which means it'll take foooorreeeevvveeerr. But still, we can dashgrab over and over and get you off the edge, so a grab means stage control or dash attack combos.

Steeler · Mar 6, 2009

Adriel said:
Yes, but squartle's jab goes through zss's.

do you mean you can interrupt her jab combo with squirtle's?

TheReflexWonder · Mar 6, 2009

Steeler said:
do you mean you can interrupt her jab combo with squirtle's?

If you can shield in-between it, you can jab in-between it. Just DI down on the punch to make sure you stay on the ground when you're at higher percentages.

Adriel · Mar 6, 2009

Steeler said:
do you mean you can interrupt her jab combo with squirtle's?

yes

10squartles

ph00tbag · Mar 6, 2009

I pretty much agree with Chompy, although I think he oversimplifies ZSS' recovery. Squirtle certainly has the tools to gimp ZSS, but you're gonna have to work just a tad bit harder than that.

Also, ZSS's smashes are electrical, as is Up B, and the muzzle flash on Plasma Whip.

Timothy2035 · Mar 6, 2009

well I have been battling a guy for a while at the Atari forums where I am a super moderator. This guy mains ZSS and is now given the title "Witch with a whip". He can really beat you down. Though Charizard used to be my best against his ZSS, the last few times we played, he seriously created problems and overwhelmed my Charizard. I have since then worked in earnest to improve my Ivysaur. He really tries to force me out over the edge and potentially gimpy my Ivy. I have had to increase my defense to not get knocked off over the edge.

I have a few videos here of when I recorded some past matches. These were all done last year though I believe (around December on the Final Destination stages and in November or late October on the Green Hills stage). Though this guy has improved since then even more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MClqDaS4ChM&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THhF33scIcE&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWu2Tz2m1jY&feature=channel_page

sorry about the quality everyone, but this was before I bought my Gamebridge device.

noradseven · Mar 6, 2009

Ahh I play this one a good bit alot of people around me have pretty decent pokemon trainers, Ivy saur is a breeze for ZSS, bowser can be tricky because he outrangers/ out priortizes her but, if ZSS spaces, and knows the match its not bad at all.

Squirtle is the real problem his **** tail, aka back air will hit you out of alot of stuff and his short size certainly doesn't help. The main thing going for ZSS is squirtle has a difficult time killing her and she can't gimp all 3 of the Pokemon characters, on recovery.

Charizard and Squirtle with d-smash, and Ivysaur has a problematic recovery to begin with. Sorry but Squirtle and Charizard your recovery speeds are too slow you can hit a d-smash every time.

I can go more into the matchup but I don't know what you people want, charizard will mess up a ZSS thats not used to the match the most, his aireals, and grabs do wonders against ZSS, but Squirtle will be the most annoying, because ZSS has hard time connecting hits against him.

Its in ZSS's favor, in my opinion because ZSS can stall you until the 2minutes are up, and punish you badly on switch, if its truly necessary, which it shouldn't even be. If anyone one of the 3 pokemon go off the edge and have to use their recovery odds are you are going to die, only Charizard because of flight really has a chance.

Xyless · Mar 6, 2009

Also, Pokedex Entry should be #0.

sasook · Mar 6, 2009

noradseven said:
Ahh I play this one a good bit alot of people around me have pretty decent pokemon trainers, Ivy saur is a breeze for ZSS, bowser can be tricky because he outrangers/ out priortizes her but, if ZSS spaces, and knows the match its not bad at all.

Uhhh, what?

Miles. · Mar 6, 2009

I think that Zss has teh advantage on Ivy for sure. Tho not worse than 60-40 I dont think.

And I think that Zard and Squirtle can be even.

Zss wrecks Zard with items but without his dashing shield is a big problem for her. If the zard knows Zss's moveset well one dashing powershield to grab can lead to a lot of pain. She is much to light and Zard hits way to hard for her to be able to have much if any advantage on him.

CHOMPY · Mar 6, 2009

PokemonMasterIRL said:
I think that Zss has teh advantage on Ivy for sure. Tho not worse than 60-40 I dont think.

And I think that Zard and Squirtle can be even.

Zss wrecks Zard with items but without his dashing shield is a big problem for her. If the zard knows Zss's moveset well one dashing powershield to grab can lead to a lot of pain. She is much to light and Zard hits way to hard for her to be able to have much if any advantage on him.

You do realize that she can glidetoss to a dsmash on Charizard right? Thats only if you sweet spot her which requires good timing and spacing and yeah Charizard is all about speed and strength and can kill her really fast. Due to her light weight but her moves are so quick that its hard for Charizard to find the perfect opportunity to hit her.

Bomber7 · Mar 6, 2009

Squirt I see having most trouble (even if the level of dificulty isnt that much) Ivy and Charz got it made with their weight and power.

Miles. · Mar 6, 2009

CHOMPY said:
You do realize that she can glidetoss to a dsmash on Charizard right?

You do know how to read right?

PokemonMasterIRL said:
Zss wrecks Zard with items

PokemonMasterIRL said:
Zss wrecks Zard with items but without his dashing shield is a big problem for her. If the zard knows Zss's moveset well one dashing powershield to grab can lead to a lot of pain. She is much to light and Zard hits way to hard for her to be able to have much if any advantage on him.

Once there arent any items, IE anytime after the first minute or so, Zard does fine I feel, easily even.

Adriel · Mar 6, 2009

Charizard does not have to worry about items. Simply don't start off as him.

Miles. · Mar 7, 2009

Adriel said:
Charizard does not have to worry about items. Simply don't start off as him.

Precisely my point.

CHOMPY · Mar 7, 2009

next time be more specific on what you mean by using items against Charizard. So people can understand what your talking about. Its called Glide Tossing if you want to be more specific. Oh and by the way I was well aware of what you wrote.

T-block · Mar 9, 2009

PokemonMasterIRL said:
I think that Zss has teh advantage on Ivy for sure. Tho not worse than 60-40 I dont think.

Care to elaborate? Seems like ZSS has an easy time gimping Ivy. Sure Ivy can compete when it comes to spacing, but I don't think it's enough to be 40-60.

Toby. · Mar 9, 2009

80-20 is extreme. You see those sorts of ratios when a character is facing an infinite of some variety. I think it will take a lot more evidence to show that zss has that level of superiority over ivy.

Phiddlesticks · Mar 9, 2009

I dunno, "fire weak!!!!" is a pretty convincing argument

TheReflexWonder · Mar 10, 2009

10% more knockback on one move isn't that big of a deal.

Ulevo · Mar 10, 2009

I play this match up very frequently. I can adamantly say that Charizard goes even if not has an edge, Squirtle has a solid advantage, and Ivysaur is at a disadvantage.

Best character to start off with is Ivysaur as you can out camp the Pieces with Razor Leaf.

ph00tbag · Mar 10, 2009

Ulevo said:
I play this match up very frequently. I can adamantly say that Charizard goes even if not has an edge, Squirtle has a solid advantage, and Ivysaur is at a disadvantage.

Best character to start off with is Ivysaur as you can out camp the Pieces with Razor Leaf.

Maybe if the ZSS is really straightforward with items. But the issue with this is items have a wider range of possible trajectories than Razor Leaf. If you curve Razor Leaf up while I'm SH tossing a piece, you'll take up to 11% and get knocked pretty far, while I'll take significantly less, and not get knocked as far. I'll take that trade, especially against Ivysaur. ZSS can also just close the gap and use suit pieces really well in close quarters. This'll shut down grabs, spot-dodge -> Bullet Seed...

Squirtle, IMO has the best tools for beating the suit pieces. The suit pieces aren't about outcamping, because ZSS will always win there. The suit pieces are about pressuring the pieces themselves and stealing them and turning the tables/getting rid of them. Squirtle, being fast, small and jerky is good at approaching the pieces and then stealing one.

Canvasofgrey · Mar 10, 2009

*Shrug*

Ivysaur at worse is 65:35 for ZZS. Unknown to most people, Ivysaur does have a glide toss, while small is still a glidetoss, and can lead to many things, especially locking any aerial apporaches that ZZS already has. (Glidetoss down to Sliding UpB is too good) Zamus can't punish Ivysaur as well as most of the ZZS people think they do. SideB isn't much an issue to me as long as Ivysaur keeps the pressure around the direct zone of vulernability that Zamus has while keeping to Ivysaur's range. Zamus' side B, after all, has slow start-up.

And I don't know about you, but Practing with characters that have items like Link, TL, Diddy, or Peach really helps to catch items since you're doing it very often, so Zamus with her armor pieces is no threat to me, and Zamus is in trouble if I catch them.

This applies to Squirtle as well. His glidetoss is, amazing, purely amazing. It doesn't go as far as Zamus or Zelda, but his pivot options can wreck havoc, and due to his small size, Zamus is actually at a disadvantage with the armor pieces lying around, espeically when Squirtle has more of them on his side. Aerials, Squirtle's out-prioritize Zamus' since her aerials aren't fantastic. Just watch out for her grab game because it can kill Squirtle very easily. Pivots and patience will win for Squirtle. 55:45 for Zamus.

Charizard has pure power, and the semi-long range moves to deal with Zamus when applied correctly, including spaced Dair, Fair, Jabs, grabs, and Flamethrower. Do not Flamethrower her Side-B, since she executes the attack faster than Charizard can use Flamethrower. Once again, Zamus's grabs are trouble for Charizard, as well as her juggling combos since Charizard is weak against things that can be exploited for heavy characters. Zamus's smashes are slow, so if the opponent likes to play a power Zamus that uses alot of smash, counter with fast attacks. 50:50

Aveean · Mar 10, 2009

I actually have a bit of practice with the matchup, since my roommate mains ZSS.

Squirtle - 50/50 (neutral)
I have the most ease with playing Squirtle against ZSS. As long as you control the spacing and speed of the match you'll do pretty well here. Keep in ZSS's face and don't give her room to sweetspot things. Also it's hard for ZSS to shield grab Squirtle, and if she misses you have plenty of time to attack her. Weave in and out and use plenty of grabs - just watch out for that darn down smash and make sure you are careful when moving above her.

Ivysaur - 35/65 (in ZSS's favor)
ZSS can gimp Ivy so easily, and a lot of her attacks throw Ivy really far due to their fire property. Play defensively and use your spacing well. Don't land directly in front of her and try not to jump closely over her, because she'll get you with her Forward-B, Up-B, or down smash. Also, be careful with Razor Leaf because it has a decent amount of lag and she can charge up to you and get an attack while you are recovering from it.

Charizard - 40/60 (in ZSS's favor)
Charizard has some nice things to combat ZSS, but he has to be careful because with how fast she is. She can easily dish out tons of attacks and juggle Charizard all over the place. Flamethrower is decent for spacing, but you have to be careful because she can Down-B out of it occasionally and the spacing is almost perfect for her to kick you from it. Also, beware her Up-B when you are out over the edge with her, because it can spike pretty easily on Charizard due to his big hitbox.

canthandletheSpeculosity · Mar 10, 2009

Canvasofgrey said:
*Shrug*
SideB isn't much an issue to me as long as Ivysaur keeps the pressure around the direct zone of vulernability that Zamus has while keeping to Ivysaur's range. Zamus' side B, after all, has slow start-up.

*Sigh* Here we go again...EVERYONE can get pass side b! what makes Ivysaur different?

Charizard can't be 5/5. All he really has is his high priority bair, and his nice, long range shieldgrab to punish bad spacing. He's still slow. let's see, what do we have:

- Charizard is nearly helpless in the air as our fast, 4 frame uairs can out prio all his moves.

- He's edgeguardable by us since his recovery is limited even with an extra jump. His glide is slow and will be intercepted by a uair before you know it.

- Charizard can hardly punish SH bairs if one was to do it.

- He has a not-so-fast roll that can be punished well by us.

- If he tries flamethrower to edgeguard we can down b.

- We outrange all his moves with side b.

Canvasofgrey said:
so if the opponent likes to play a power Zamus that uses alot of smash, counter with fast attacks. 50:50

lol...

Squirtle is definitely somewhere in the 50's. I'm not gonna be biased to say 55/45 ZSS because I cant really reach a decision there. So for now I'm gonna go with 5/5.

Ivysaur I say 7/3 because once she's (Ivy's a girl) off the stage she's done. There really isn't any question about it.

ZSS vs Charizard - 6/4 ZSS

ZSS vs Ivysaur - 7/3 ZSS

ZSS vs Squirtle - 5/5

SSJ5Goku8932 · Mar 10, 2009

canthandletheSpeculosity said:
(Ivy's a girl)

We know this :D

Steeler · Mar 10, 2009

canthandletheSpeculosity said:
- Charizard is nearly helpless in the air as our fast, 4 frame uairs can out prio all his moves.

it's definitely a tough spot for charizard. it still has rock smash if you aren't directly below it or it's b-reversaled or something (it comes out on frame 2 and hitting it will cause you to take damage) and fly, which has super armor on frame 4. fly isn't all that reliable though.

- He's edgeguardable by us since his recovery is limited even with an extra jump. His glide is slow and will be intercepted by a uair before you know it.

you might get glide attacked before you can hit it. the hitbox surrounds charizard's entire body. gliding is usually not that great unless charizard is going really high or really low. fly has super armor so hitting a charizard below the edge usually won't work.

- Charizard can hardly punish SH bairs if one was to do it.

rock smash comes out on frame 2 and hitting it will cause you to take a good deal of damage. flamethrower can work if it's used early enough. i don't know if charizard can shieldgrab it but it's plausible.

- He has a not-so-fast roll that can be punished well by us.

rolling is usually not a good tactic in the first place, since charizard has good dash speed and good shield options. and rock smash.

- If he tries flamethrower to edgeguard we can down b.

probably. it can be used to bait the down b and then punish it.

- We outrange all his moves with side b.

flamethrower. the whip move is fairly laggy anyway. charizard can punish it due to its exceptional dash speed and grab range.

ivysaur is a girl 12.5% of the time. technically you are supposed to refer to all pokemon with gender neutral pronouns, unless it is always one gender.

Canvasofgrey · Mar 10, 2009

canthandletheSpeculosity said:
*Sigh* Here we go again...EVERYONE can get pass side b! what makes Ivysaur different?

Charizard can't be 5/5. All he really has is his high priority bair, and his nice, long range shieldgrab to punish bad spacing. He's still slow. let's see, what do we have:

- Charizard is nearly helpless in the air as our fast, 4 frame uairs can out prio all his moves.

- He's edgeguardable by us since his recovery is limited even with an extra jump. His glide is slow and will be intercepted by a uair before you know it.

- Charizard can hardly punish SH bairs if one was to do it.

- He has a not-so-fast roll that can be punished well by us.

- If he tries flamethrower to edgeguard we can down b.

- We outrange all his moves with side b.

You need more research. While some of Charizard's aerials aren't the best, you seem like you don't really play many Pokemon trainers. Charizard's Fair is an awesome gimp, Especially for Zamus who has tether recoveries and a predictable DownB jump.

A timed Dair will beat Zamus' Uair, simply because Charizard's Dair is extremely disjointed, so unless Zamus has a bigger disjoint box, Charizard can beat it with proper timing. Granted it is very hard to get it right, but it's possible.

I don't know many Charizard players, but I sure as heck don't Glide to recover. Charizard's glide isn't all that grand, and I rather have my Fly, especially to get Zamus off the edge since you can't knock Charizard out of the SA frames.

Every freaking character has awesome SH Bairs. Zamus is not special in that regard. Flamethrower will get you if you become too predictable with it.

Who rolls with Charizard? His rolls are almost as bad as Shiek's forward roll, and I don't think I need to bring up the atricious frame data for that.

DownB is predictable, You can't alter the trajectory, you have to face a certain direction when using it. Your attack with it is nice, especially against Charizard since he's big and is rather clumsy, but I don't flamethrower edge guard someone who can easily get back on stage. Stuff like Flamethrower edgeguard is reserved for the bonzos who have horrible recovery.

Bestiarius · Mar 10, 2009

How is Ivysaur's recovery so much worse than Zamus'? They're both tethers, and Ivysaur's is faster because of the instant tether, right?

SSJ5Goku8932 · Mar 10, 2009

Bestiarius said:
How is Ivysaur's recovery so much worse than Zamus'? They're both tethers, and Ivysaur's is faster because of the instant tether, right?

LOL, you do not know much about ZSS, do you? At least on how she recovers

PkTrainerCris · Mar 10, 2009

Bestiarius said:
How is Ivysaur's recovery so much worse than Zamus'? They're both tethers, and Ivysaur's is faster because of the instant tether, right?

Because zss has an extra jump (down b) and she can use her tether more than one time... unlike ivy
I think its
55-45 squirtles edge
60-40 or 65-35 zss's advantage over ivy
45-55 zss's advantage over zard

Bomber7 · Mar 10, 2009

looking at it, it looks consistant that ZZS has an advantage and squirtle is lucky enough to get a 50-50 match up.

Toby. · Mar 11, 2009

Bestiarius said:
How is Ivysaur's recovery so much worse than Zamus'? They're both tethers, and Ivysaur's is faster because of the instant tether, right?

The name instant tether is very misleading. It's not some technique for speeding up the tether, and never has been. The tether isn't instant at all. UGH.

Pokedex Entry #whatever: Zero Suit Samus

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Sinbad: King of Sindria

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Wonderful!

Smash Journeyman

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Sinbad: King of Sindria

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Journeyman

Smash Champion

Sinbad: King of Sindria

B2B TST

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Wonderful!

Smash Master

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ

Smash Ace

Purple Yoshi Double Dunker

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Information

Network