The NEW Falcon grab release thread

Face124 · Mar 7, 2009

ToKneeOrnotToKnee has left the boards, so his other grab release thread will never be updated, so I think its good to start a new one. Also, I'm still updating the stuff we know so far (Squirtle Ness Lucas Wario etc etc) so don't mention it.

Someone (HazDoc?) said in another thread we should start finding out more about this, and I thought the same. Hopefully we together can find all the grab release **** Falcon has. Please post any things you find.

Grab Release?

When you grab an opponent, depending on their percent they will eventually be released. The higher their percent, the longer it will take for them to be released. it is possible to be released quicker by tapping buttons and rotating the control stick and C-stick. One full rotation of either counts as one button push.

On most characters smaller than Falcon, if you grab and hold them, they will jump away as a grab release. This is called a jump release (or sometimes an air release). Characters taller than Falcon will move away from him when they get out of the grab, and this is called ground release. However, if you are pummeling any character when they get release, they will always be ground released. Also, if the opponent is tapping the jump button when they get released, they will always be jump released, even if they are taller.

If the opponents feet are touching the ground when you grab them, they will always be ground released. However,if you grab those characters and their feet don't touch the ground, like at the edge of a stage or on a slope, they will be jump released. So you can jump release any character without them being in control of it. Also, if an opponent smaller than you's feet are touching the ground, they will be ground released.

Releases

Here is the list of characters who will get jump released or ground released without pummeling and without mashing jump upon release.

Natural jump release: (16)

(And Nana)

Natural ground release: (23)

:shiek:

Combos

Jump Release:

Remember that platforms on stages like Battle Field can get in the way of these combos and can render grab release almost useless. The quickest way to get out of a jump release is to jump, not air dodge or attack. The "(E)" beside a character's name means that jump release can only occur on an uneven platform or over an edge.

Bowser (E)

Captain Falcon (E)

Diddy Kong (E)

Donkey Kong (E)

Falco (E)

Fox (E)

Mr Game and Watch

Ganondorf (E)

Ice Climbers

Ike (E)

Jigglypuff

:dedede:

King Dedede (E)

Kirby
- jump U-air.

Link (E)

Lucario (E)

Lucas

Luigi

Mario

Marth (E)

Meta Knight
-Re-grab
-Dash-A
-U-smash
-Run off U-air

Ness

Olimar

Peach (E)

Pikachu

Pit (E)

Squirtle
-Re-grab
-Dash-A
-Jab (Against a wall)
-Infinite against a wall.
-Run off U-air.
-Run off Knee (unconfirmed).

Ivysaur
-Dash SH U-air

Charizard (E)

R.O.B. (E)

Samus (E)

:shiek: Shiek (E)

Snake (E)

Sonic (E)

Toon Link

Wario
-SH U-air
-SH Knee
-SH D-air
-SH N-air
-SH B-air
-Falcon Dive
-Jab
-F-tilt (tilted upwards)
-U-tilt
-F-smash (tilted upwards)
-U-smash
-D-smash
-re-grab (only when grabbed out of second jump)
-footstool

You can do (at 0%) jump release > Knee to jab canceled re-grab.
You can CG from 15% - 55% by jump release > D-air > buffered turn around jab canceled re-grab. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208868

Wolf (E)

Yoshi

Zelda (E)

Zero Suit Samus (E)

Grab Release:

You MUST be pummeling Lucas and Ness as they release for it to be a ground release.

Lucas
-Dash re-Grab.
-Dash attack.
-Wall infinite re-grab

Ness
-Dash re-grab
-Dash-A
-Wall infinite re-grab

Other things to try:

Credit

no-one yet.

t3h n00b · Mar 7, 2009

Nice thread. I don't have Brawl right now, but since both Lucas and Ness have a terrible lag time after getting grab released, it's possible that the dash-regrab and dash attack would work on Lucas too, I don't know if it's been tried or not.

DoB04 · Mar 7, 2009

i lack the ability to test this, but if you air release a sheik from the edge, you can follow up with a falling fair (usually flubbed, which can lead into an uair or something else)
and if you are about one step from the edge, just as sheik's body is still out, you might be able to land a sweet knee instead.... i have no way of testing this though so please do so...

GimR · Mar 8, 2009

I think if you grab Squirtle a certain distance from the ledge you can run off and knee, I've been doing this to my bro all day and he still hasn't figured a way out.

Nidtendofreak · Mar 8, 2009

God-is-my-Rock said:
I think if you grab Squirtle a certain distance from the ledge you can run off and knee, I've been doing this to my bro all day and he still hasn't figured a way out.

That sounds possible. Ike has walk-off fair on squirtle after all. But barely.

And why do you have so many ground release character slots? It's impossible for Falcon to have ground grab release stuff on anyone besides Ness or Lucas.

On another note, it may be possible to dtilt them out of release. Dtilt comes out in 11 frames (according to the topic I saw here a while ago), they are stunned for 10, + 2 to shield or sidestep. You'd have to be frame perfect and buffering, but it may be possible. I just don't know if they break close enough for it to be possible.

GimR · Mar 8, 2009

Nidtendofreak said:
That sounds possible. Ike has walk-off fair on squirtle after all. But barely.

And why do you have so many ground release character slots? It's impossible for Falcon to have ground grab release stuff on anyone besides Ness or Lucas.

On another note, it may be possible to dtilt them out of release. Dtilt comes out in 11 frames (according to the topic I saw here a while ago), they are stunned for 10, + 2 to shield or sidestep. You'd have to be frame perfect and buffering, but it may be possible. I just don't know if they break close enough for it to be possible.

He has the ground release people open for "just in case they air release against you, you'll know what to do" From what I've seen most people tend to do an automatic air release(at least the first time) when they break out because they roll the control stick.

The shield comes out on frame 1 so I'm pretty sure D-tilt would not be possible

Face124 · Mar 8, 2009

Nidtendofreak said:
On another note, it may be possible to dtilt them out of release. Dtilt comes out in 11 frames (according to the topic I saw here a while ago), they are stunned for 10, + 2 to shield or sidestep. You'd have to be frame perfect and buffering, but it may be possible. I just don't know if they break close enough for it to be possible.

Unfortunately, no. Falcon has a lot of lag after they get released also.

Nidtendofreak · Mar 8, 2009

Falcon should have the exact same amount as anyone else. The 10 frames is the advantage. Everyone is normally stunned for 30 frames, doesn't matter if they are the grabber or the grabbed. However, When Ness and Lucas are ground released, they have 40 frames of stun time. When DK is ground released, he only has 20 frames of stun time.

And I'm near positive that Kirk found the time for shield to come up to be 2 frames. Which would mean in theory that ZSS could jab anyone out of a ground release in frame perfect conditions.....I'll go poke around again.

EDIT: Bottom of the first post. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202837 Unless different characters have different times for getting the shield up, it should be 2 frames for the EB boys as well.

Face124 · Mar 8, 2009

I don't think that's right tbh. I tried, in 1/4 speed grabbing a Wario and tapping A while my other tester held shield. The tapping a cause him to ground release, and the Wario was in range of a jab, but was able to powershield the jab. And I was tapping a fast, as well as it being one quarter slower. So no offense, but I don't agree with that.

Nidtendofreak · Mar 8, 2009

Training mode adds more frames. It doesn't work for testing those sorts of things.

EDIT: That, and apparently every is stunned for 31 frames normally instead of 30, and EB boys have 41. So, I *think* Dtilt is still a possibility.

t3h n00b · Mar 8, 2009

Assuming you were jabbing with ZSS, maybe the hitbox comes out on frame 1, but reached Wario on frame 2, giving him just enough time to powershield.

Face124 · Mar 8, 2009

Ah, I apologize NintendoFreak for my ignorance, this is great :D

Not to mention f-tilt which I believe is quicker, and jab.

EDIT: um, doesn't Kirk's thread say that Ike can do stuff after 30 frames in ground release?

Nidtendofreak · Mar 8, 2009

What do you mean by "in" ground release? Being ground released? Nope. Being the person releasing? Only against EB boys.

Either that, or I'm being confused on my end. It's spring break, there for my brain is out the window.

Face124 · Mar 8, 2009

I mean how many frames it takes before Ike can do something after the release.

"For both ground release and air release, Ike can act 30 frames after his opponent is released."

If every character is then able to do something 31 frames after, and shield come out on frame 2, wouldn't that mean that if everything was frame perfect, the jab would be powershielded?

Nidtendofreak · Mar 8, 2009

I believe so. I'm not the expert in frame data, I just show what others have found. XD

DoB04 · Mar 8, 2009

did anyone test the sheik knee? im just curious to know if it works or not...

GimR · Mar 9, 2009

Nidtendofreak said:
Falcon should have the exact same amount as anyone else. The 10 frames is the advantage. Everyone is normally stunned for 30 frames, doesn't matter if they are the grabber or the grabbed. However, When Ness and Lucas are ground released, they have 40 frames of stun time. When DK is ground released, he only has 20 frames of stun time.

And I'm near positive that Kirk found the time for shield to come up to be 2 frames. Which would mean in theory that ZSS could jab anyone out of a ground release in frame perfect conditions.....I'll go poke around again.

EDIT: Bottom of the first post. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202837 Unless different characters have different times for getting the shield up, it should be 2 frames for the EB boys as well.

I have the frame by frame code, the shield comes out on frame 1. Maybe, just maybe some peoples shields come out on frame 2. I know Squirtle can ground release to jab combo Snake and he can't do anything about it. This might mean Squirtle breaks out before everyone else though.

Oh yea, BTW with frame perfect timing you can hit Kirby with your up-air after aerial release

Nidtendofreak · Mar 9, 2009

Ya, I found out in another topic shield is actually frame 1. As for the squirtle thing, it could be just because he has a fast jab, because he doesn't break-out sooner. Otherwise the PT boards would be using it as a reason for mid-tier. >_>

GimR · Mar 9, 2009

Nidtendofreak said:
Ya, I found out in another topic shield is actually frame 1. As for the squirtle thing, it could be just because he has a fast jab, because he doesn't break-out sooner. Otherwise the PT boards would be using it as a reason for mid-tier. >_>

Well, if snake and Squirtle break out at the exact same time. And Snake has a 1 Frame Shield and Squirtle has a 1 frame jab then Snake should powershield the jab. He doesn't power shield it. This must mean Squirtle breaks out before Snake.

Trust me, I was holding Shield down and it just didn't come out :laugh:

Nidtendofreak · Mar 9, 2009

No, he doesn't brake out sooner. Only Bowser can do that.

Maybe the shield comes out frame 1, but doesn't block until frame 2?

Kirk · Mar 9, 2009

Opponent getting ground released = they can't do anything for 30 frames (i.e. shield comes out on frame 31). [exception lucas/ness which is 40 and DK which is 20, but that's besides the point]

You grab releasing someone = you can't do anything for 29 frames (i.e. you can act ON frame 30).

So yeah...

People can shield on frame 31. Squirtle's jab hits on frame 30. Makes sense to me.

Face124 · Mar 9, 2009

Kirk said:
Opponent getting ground released = they can't do anything for 30 frames (i.e. shield comes out on frame 31). [exception lucas/ness which is 40 and DK which is 20, but that's besides the point]

You grab releasing someone = you can't do anything for 29 frames (i.e. you can act ON frame 30).

So yeah...

People can shield on frame 31. Squirtle's jab hits on frame 30. Makes sense to me.

So, the only legit ground release combos are on Lucas and Ness, since Falcon has no one frame attacks

Nidtendofreak · Mar 9, 2009

Yep. Which is why I was wondering you had such a big section for ground releases. >_>

GimR · Mar 9, 2009

Kirk said:
Opponent getting ground released = they can't do anything for 30 frames (i.e. shield comes out on frame 31). [exception lucas/ness which is 40 and DK which is 20, but that's besides the point]

You grab releasing someone = you can't do anything for 29 frames (i.e. you can act ON frame 30).

So yeah...

People can shield on frame 31. Squirtle's jab hits on frame 30. Makes sense to me.

ahhhh, ok, now I get it.

Face124 · Mar 9, 2009

Nidtendofreak said:
Yep. Which is why I was wondering you had such a big section for ground releases. >_>

Ah ok. Sorry, I didn't know any of the stuff you were telling me before making this, I'll edit out everything but Lucas and Ness.

Nidtendofreak · Mar 9, 2009

It's fine.

According to the little bit of frame data I could fine for Falcon, if Ness and Lucas are in range of ftilt and dtilt, they will get by it before they can shield, with ftilt being much easier to hit them with in time.

EDIT: I don't suppose you know how long it would take Falcon to run pass the EB boys and pivot grab them, would you? I honestly doubt it could work, but Falcon does run fairly fast, and maybe if the grab box is just right, you could have a ground "infinite" on them.

Like I said, doubt it, just a thought. It would require insane timing though if it does work.

t3h n00b · Mar 9, 2009

That would just be a stall though right? A really cool one if it works :bigthumbu

Nidtendofreak · Mar 9, 2009

No, it would be a damage racker.

t3h n00b · Mar 9, 2009

Oh ok with pummels for the ground release. Anyone have Brawl+ with the debug code here? I don't even have my Wii right now -_-

Face124 · Mar 10, 2009

God-is-my-Rock said:
I think if you grab Squirtle a certain distance from the ledge you can run off and knee, I've been doing this to my bro all day and he still hasn't figured a way out.

Ok added.

God-is-my-Rock said:
Oh yea, BTW with frame perfect timing you can hit Kirby with your up-air after aerial release

Added that too. I'll try and test Shiek's run off Knee with someone.

The NEW Falcon grab release thread

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