Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

Ravin · Mar 8, 2009

This topic is to cover more common questions about Samus. So feel free to add questions or answers here. When a question is asked multiple times, Ill add it to the front here.

Special Thanks to Dryn for setting up the front page.

Q1. What changes have been made for Samus?

A1. Aside from the luster of her Power Suit, there are actually quite a number of changes. These are as follows:

The Charge Shot does 26% damage instead of 25%.
The knock-back of the Charge Shot has been nerfed.
The Screw Attack has been buffed, and it acts like the Screw Attack of SSB.
Homing Missiles home in much better.
The design of the Super Missile.
Super Missiles have been nerfed, and lack KO potential.
Bombs no longer explode on contact.
Bomb Jumping isn't as useful.
N-air has less knock-back, and is no longer able to KO.
D-tilt has been buffed and is capable of KO'ing.
Samus can use her Grapple Beam ("z-air") as an attack.
Tether recovery automatically connects to the edge of the stage.
The Grapple Extender is no longer possible. It was removed in the PAL version of Melee.
Samus falls slower.

Q2. What is the first technique that new Samus players should familiarize themselves with?

A2. Z-air is one of the most important attacks that Samus has at her disposal. It does not stale, but at the same time, it will not refresh any attacks that have been used. All people who are serious about using Samus, whether by maining her or using her as an alternative character should learn performing z-air properly. It is one of Samus' best spacing tools.

Q3. Is the Missile Cancel still possible?

A3. Yes.

Q4. What is the best way to use Samus?

A4. It is preferable to fight from long- to mid-range, since this is Samus' strong suit. This does not mean that Samus cannot fight in close-combat, but it really isn't the best option, especially against characters who excel in close-combat. It varies in ways, depending on who your opponent is.

Q5. Do Attacks Stale if they miss?

A5. Here is a list of what stales or does not stale an attack.

Any attack that clanks with another attack does not stale.
Any projectile that clanks with another projectile does not stale.
Any attack that hits Balloons, walls, breakable surfaces, stale, though refresh other attacks.
Z-air does not stale, nor does it refresh other attacks.
If an attack misses, it does not stale.
If an attack is shielded, it does not stale.
If an attack is absorbed or reflected, it does not stale.
If an attack hits a character while he or she still has invincible frames after respawning, that attack does not stale.

Bimz · Mar 8, 2009

Ive seen some vids floating around where some samus's use a reverse zair as a faster edgehog. what is the proper way/technique to do this?

Ravin · Mar 8, 2009

I believe this is the video you are looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsPY39M4yqI&feature=channel

Popertop · Mar 8, 2009

K, I've been playing with Samus fora good little while, she is my low tier secondary or "fun character".

I can beat nearly everyone I play against with her, except for the people who "run up and shield/powershield"

what is(are) the most effective way(s) to stop this?

Ravin · Mar 8, 2009

If your MCing and or Zairing typically if they shield or even power shield you grab them as a followup, considering you have no landing lag when they get close grab or running A to keep it mixed up then back off and continue if you like the camping game, Dtilting works also because of the range

So

MC/Zair/Uncharged shot.
Did they shield?
Yes ---> Grab or Running A
No - Mix it up with missile and Zair.

Did the Grab hit?
Yes - Throw in a direction and SH back and Repeat MC/Zair/Uncharged Shot/ Or combo them with various aerials depending upon their DI.
No - Get punished and recover.

Did the Running A hit?
Yes - Follow up depending on Dair, Bair, Uair, or Missiles can work
No - You can SH away or downdodge Dtilt/Dsmash/Roll away and repeat step one.

Too close for MC/Zair?
Dtilt/Ftilt/Fsmash

Did the Dtilt hit?
Yes - Follow up with combo.
No - Hard to punish, do it again.

Ftilt hit?
Yes - Smack them again for the lulz.
No - Get punished if they react fast enough, or rush them.

Fsmash hit?
Yes - Camp some more.
No - Get punished.

Using your uncharged shot is a great thing to do to keep some people off you. Always when someone approches you and GETS hit by a missile, you should always be following up Id recommend looking into the video thread at some of the combo videos.

Smash_Gigas · Mar 10, 2009

Lately I've been coming across the problem of firing my Charged Beam in the wrong direction while airborne. I'm guessing it's because I flick my controll stick, causing it to face the opposite direction for a split second?

Example: Jiggz is doing Rollout on the platform of Smashville. I quickly flick the controll stick to begin the dash animation, short hop for forward momentum, then my Beam fires in the opposite direction, costing me the match. D=

Any ways to prevent this?

I hate the B-reversal thing now.

Crystanium · Mar 10, 2009

Smash_Gigas said:
Lately I've been coming across the problem of firing my Charged Beam in the wrong direction while airborne. I'm guessing it's because I flick my controll stick, causing it to face the opposite direction for a split second?

Example: Jiggz is doing Rollout on the platform of Smashville. I quickly flick the controll stick to begin the dash animation, short hop for forward momentum, then my Beam fires in the opposite direction, costing me the match. D=

Any ways to prevent this?

I hate the B-reversal thing now.

I'm not sure how that's supposed to work, because it doesn't say anything about you slightly tapping the analog stick in the opposite direction. Try to get the feel of firing your Charge Shot forward in Training Mode until you have it down.

Oh, and when Jigglypuff is on the moving passable platform in Smashville, hang on the edge and wait for that platform to pass over you.

-Crews- · Mar 10, 2009

what are some *good* samus combos? maybe involving fair? maybe

powell651234 · Mar 11, 2009

CREWS said:
what are some *good* samus combos? maybe involving fair? maybe

fair to dtilt....

you can sometimes chain fairs....

Vader · Mar 11, 2009

Edit: wrong answer

0RLY · Mar 11, 2009

Smash_Gigas said:
Lately I've been coming across the problem of firing my Charged Beam in the wrong direction while airborne. I'm guessing it's because I flick my controll stick, causing it to face the opposite direction for a split second?Example: Jiggz is doing Rollout on the platform of Smashville. I quickly flick the controll stick to begin the dash animation, short hop for forward momentum, then my Beam fires in the opposite direction, costing me the match. D=Any ways to prevent this?

I hate the B-reversal thing now.

First off, it's not B-reversal. B-reversal is hitting the control stick after the special attack is performed. Samus cannot B-reversal any attack except for her Screw Attack, which is next to pointless.You are performing a B-turnaround. This is just flicking the control stick in the opposite direction, returning it to neutral, then hitting B in quick succession. Your controller may be old and worn out, so the control stick may rebound beyond the neutral position when you let go of the control stick.Do you remember the proper way to SHL with Falco in Melee? You have to manually return the control stick to neutral position to make sure you don't shoot your laser in the wrong direction. If this seems too hard, a new controller can also fix your problem.

Smash_Gigas · Mar 11, 2009

Alright, thanks all. It seems I'll just have to adjust to it.

Eddie G · Mar 12, 2009

Battlefield, dair to up B, delicious.

Would you not agree Ravin? xD

Ravin · Mar 12, 2009

Dair to anything is Delicious.

on Bf is like adding whipped cream to the victory cake.

THEND · Mar 12, 2009

King Beef said:
Battlefield, dair to up B, delicious.

Would you not agree Ravin? xD

I would def. agree! woot!

Popertop · Mar 12, 2009

Ravin said:
Dair to anything is Delicious.

on Bf is like adding whipped cream to the victory cake.

sigd

Ravin · Mar 12, 2009

Lol first Sig'd evar. xD

hippiedude92 · Mar 13, 2009

So I finally fought my first good samus ever. Just wondering, any basic ways in getting around all those Zairs. So many Samus's love to throw out Zairs everywhere and just follow up with multitude of options mainly projectiles leading to combos =[

Popertop · Mar 14, 2009

shield them, and approach from the ground.
because if you airdodge you will probably eat more missles and zairs.

you have to get inside samus's range, because that's where she's weakest.

Ravin · Mar 14, 2009

Walking power shield, dont rush when you get in or you will eat a fresh Dtilt and get comboed. :o Play aggressively as possible when you get the chance and don't give the same time to think.

Vader · Mar 14, 2009

i play this kirby who likes to jump really high then come down with a random dair/bair or rarely a fair. what would be the best way to punish or overcome this?

Hive · Mar 15, 2009

if he jumps really high above you and then tries to come in from above you i'd imagine if you screw attack it will punish pretty hard....
or you can full jump a double zair to hit him as he tries to jump.
or you can fulljump uair to homing missile i believe as well.
unless i got what you were saying wrong?

Ravin · Mar 15, 2009

Up B if its not Dair. If it is. You should be able to move out of his range fairly quickly, if hes SHing Bair or Fair, simply use some Zairs and missiles. But be warned, Bair and Fair eat homing missiles and sometimes smash ones.. You could always do some mindgames and act like your going to jump after him only to fall and run around, dance dash some for the luls and Dtilt him when he lands if he uses a Bair. (If hes jumping up high to waste his jumps thats a problem with his playstyle. )

Vader · Mar 15, 2009

no what you guys suggested answered my question perfectly. thanks

Z1GMA · Mar 15, 2009

Where did the Broiler-thread go?..
I liked that one.

Ravin · Mar 15, 2009

It was closed down.

Popertop · Mar 16, 2009

What do you do against people that just run up and power shield? (with samus of course)

I keep losing to people that do that. Should I just sh Dair?

Hive · Mar 16, 2009

grab them i guess? ^^
If your spamming with zair and homing missile it should slow down and brickwall the enemy approach. If you shoot a homing missile and the enemy tries to shield it it gives you the perfect opportunity to dash grab them while they are shielding the missile. Missiles are more for setting up approaches then actual damage anyways ^^

then if you forward throw them (which is one of the most damaging anyways, with up throw) it should give you spacing again to set up spams and brickwalls.

Popertop · Mar 16, 2009

Yeah I try and do the missiles and Zair, but when I jump for the missile he just runs under the missile and sheilds the zair. and then I get grabbed.
should I just Dair when I see him run up?

whne I try to grab after the missile he spot dodges and punishes it.

Hive · Mar 16, 2009

wait, are you fullhopping the homing missile to zair? the fulljump combos should only be done at a distance for precisely that reason (the opponent running under you). However, if you are shorthopping homing missile, and then shorthopping airdodge zair, it should allow you more time and options to react.
Or did i misinterpret that?

Popertop · Mar 16, 2009

I'm doing the shorthop one, but he still gets under me (marth).

Hive · Mar 16, 2009

hmm... marth is good at approaching. I guess the main thing is to learn to space the zair in a way so the the tip hits him and if it misses he won't have time to approach. If he is within a certain distance though spamming is not the best idea since he will be able to take advantage of the in between time in the spams.
when this is the case you can->
-shorthop ff dair
-shorthop ff uair (but has not as good range as fair)(which after it hits him you can immediately chain into a screw attack)
-shorthop ff fair (if you hit the tip of this it will give you low knockback for which you can chain into dtilt at low percentages). the fair by itself also has pretty good knockback when you hit it fully.
-dash attack to upb
-try to dash grab him and forward throw to gain space again
-jab to dtilt if he is very close... oh wait its marth he can usually counter that, hugh :?
-or try to jump back to gain space again. as lame as this sounds this is actually pretty useful lol, sometimes if he is pushing your brickwalls and you are running out of space it is a good idea to retreat back and take advantage of her ledge game rather than risk close range combat against marth....

wait, so did i get it right this time

sorry if i'm not helping here ^^

Ravin · Mar 16, 2009

If he is power shielding you should mix up you moves, when he gets too close for a Zair or a solid missile hit you should use Fair (I use the Cstick for my aerials, helps with better control) and immieditly into a Dtilt, or shot an uncharged shot without SHing and run and grab, considering hes shielding your attacks, you should get a free grab, throw him back, and combo.

If he also shields your Fair and you feel more comfortable, do a Up B immeditly to throw them off. considering they might also do sword dance, shielding the first three hits and then doing UpB throws them off, you should see how marths panic when they cant use Sword Dance, Fair, or Fsmash. I rarely see a Marth tilt unless your on a platform.

=)@MePlz · Mar 19, 2009

Question

Why is Samus in the lower tiers?

She seems quite good. Is it just matchups? Pro+Con list please.

Ravin · Mar 19, 2009

She can't kill.

Learning Curve.

Have to setup/Mindgame to kill.

People comparing Melee to Brawl too much.

Thats about all.

-Crews- · Mar 19, 2009

Not to mention her lack of close range combat. Anything within a swords range away completly ***** her hard.

Hive · Mar 19, 2009

I think her main problem is how situational many of her tactics are and her lack of ko moves........

Samus is a really kwl character to play though imo ^^
Another reason why she is in low tier is because many of her worst matchups are also the most common. (mk, ddd, falco, marth all kill her at high levels of play, and others have slight advantages like snake and gw)
so in tourney its hard to avoid having to face one of these.

Verb-O · Mar 20, 2009

My question is how do you do the zair through the stage?

Crystanium · Mar 20, 2009

Verb-O said:
My question is how do you do the zair through the stage?

You have to drop, do a short hop against the stage and use z-air. Someone else might have a better explanation than me.

Ravin · Mar 21, 2009

TO Zair threw the stage you have to be ahead of the ledge just a bit, if your level with it , you will attach to it.

So you have to tilt towards the ledge when you SH then Zair instantly. this also causes issue with getting stuck under the ledge under FD and some levels, practice makes perfect.

You can Zair threw most walls as well, so long as your pressured flush to them.

Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

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