DK in Brawl+ (Exposure + Discussion)

Okay before I say how he is, I'm going to make one rule, it's a very simple rule and you must follow it please so we don't have any conflicts:

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM DISCUSSING BRAWL+ IN GENERAL AND YOUR OPINION OF THE PROJECT. PLEASE KEEP THIS CIVIL AND JUST FOAM AT THE MOUTH AS TO HOW GOOD DK IS!

Now that that's out of the way, DK is much better, not just MUCH better but, a LOT better in most of his match-ups, he even has a match up he didn't have before, DDD! (Hitstun removes his chain grab, thus, no standing infinite on DK anymore!) And it's a pretty close one at that. DK's gravity has remained the same but, he has a much higher fastfall speed and a shorter SH (he loses double Bair, sorry guys, HOWEVER he gains a LOT more in exchange for it, which makes him even better, you won't even miss double Bair).

Here are his SH/FH/FF/Grav values:
SH FH FF Grav
0.850 1.000 1.400 1.000 1.000

You might be asking what it is that DK gains... well, it's a MORE USEFUL Dair and awesome combos that stem from it. DK also has momentum from his running speed so when he runs much like in Melee, he will get momentum when he jumps from his run, thus making his Nair useful again ('cause it was pretty useless before) still, Bair, Uair, and Dair are your better aerial options now for approach.

DK also has Bum combos again (cargo Utoss to Uair, cargo Utoss to donkey punch are two examples) on most of the cast and it's pretty much inescapable until much later percents. Bair hits smaller characters now, so you have a better match-up against Kirby now and his Utilt connects better after it with which you can now do Dair right after and attempt to continue to combo from there.

DK's move set has not been changed at all. He takes advantage of all the new mechanics. The only downfall he has is his recovery so, you better be careful, don't just blatantly Up B towards the stage! This balances him with his AMAZING onstage game, it is really hard to beat DK now, it truly is.

Don't believe me? Here are some matches of my DK in Brawl+.

Old Plusery Set (Beta 3.1)
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (CF) 1
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (CF) 2
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (CF) 4
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (CF) 5
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (DDD) 1
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (DDD) 2
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (DDD) 4
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (DDD) 5
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (Marth)
0WN1N (DK) VS. SFG (Diddy Kong)

Newest Plusery Set (Beta 3.3)
0WN1N (DK) VS. King Yoshi (Mario)

Beta 3.1 doesn't have momentum while Beta 3.3 does so, 3.1 matches are there to show you his combo potential with his SH/FH/FF/Grav values and 3.3 is there to show you his momentum stuff. I'm still uploading 3.3 DK matches so, I will be constantly updating this thread with them.

Also, if you're just looking for a few combos there are some in this B+ combo video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APp94LuL1ko

What does every DK main think of this? I second him in vBrawl and still do in Brawl+. I just thought you guys might like this.

so you have a better match-up against Lucas

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dk has a 7-3 matchup on lucas, and that's without the infinite worked in. with it probably 9-1, how do you get better than 9-1? that would be dumb.

also, he didn't really need a better approach game, bair, tilts and upb have that covered

itsthebigfoot said:

also, he didn't really need a better approach game, bair, tilts and upb have that covered

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Doesn't matter really, he's better overall. His approach game just became EVEN better without having to change hardly anything.

Also, lol at my stupidity with Lucas thing, I haven't really been keeping up with DK's match-ups for several months so... yeah...

Falco400 said:

Doesn't matter really, he's better overall. His approach game just became EVEN better without having to change hardly anything.

Also, lol at my stupidity with Lucas thing, I haven't really been keeping up with DK's match-ups for several months so... yeah...

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Stop making excuses! the lucas matchup hasnt changed in "several months" we always pwned it.

Otherwise its really cool. I like the comboage thing... real combos are cool.

Only thing i dont like is the ledge grabbing thing. It is a huge handicap for DK in Brawl+ (recovery) but hey, can't have everything.

Wow Brawl+ really looks nice too bad nobody plays it in France :'(

... lol wow his ending lag up and left the building. I might get into B+ just for this.

daisho said:

Stop making excuses! the lucas matchup hasnt changed in "several months" we always pwned it.

Otherwise its really cool. I like the comboage thing... real combos are cool.

Only thing i dont like is the ledge grabbing thing. It is a huge handicap for DK in Brawl+ (recovery) but hey, can't have everything.

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I always lagless recover, I almost find it better to have no auto sweetspot ledges for DK.

Im suprised how buffed up he is. No doubt, he is top shelf.

drizz, nobody plays it out here either

EDIT: also, i temporarily became color blind for the color yellow, so i'd like to take this time to say "brawl+ is way too premature, you should wait 2 more years before making it, play brawl instead"


and suddenly i'm not colorblind anymore, it's magic.

itsthebigfoot said:

drizz, Nobody Plays It Out Here Either

Edit: Also, I Temporarily Became Color Blind For The Color Yellow, So I'd Like To Take This Time To Say "brawl+ Is Way Too Premature, You Should Wait 2 More Years Before Making It, Play Brawl Instead"


And Suddenly I'm Not Colorblind Anymore, It's Magic.

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Please Refrain From Discussing Brawl+ In General And Your Opinion Of The Project. Please Keep This Civil And Just Foam At The Mouth As To How Good Dk Is!


That said... I've never played brawl+... but I want to, cause DK looks pretty good.

Drizzt6195 said:

Wow Brawl+ really looks nice too bad nobody plays it in France :'(

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Brawl+ really looks nice BECAUSE DK looks like a **** machine , thats what I meant

ook said:

That said... I've never played brawl+... but I want to, cause DK looks pretty good.

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Drizzt6195 said:

Brawl+ really looks nice BECAUSE DK looks like a **** machine , thats what I meant

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Haha, DK is reallehhhhh gooooodddd. Everything about him is better (except for his recovery). You gaiz should really give him a go if you ever get the chance to or want to set this shiz up.

I don't know his recovery seems fine for me on the video

My biggest complaint about Brawl+ is that they have so many character-specific codes. Stuff like making Captain Falcon have less lag than everyone else and making Bowser take less damage and making Lucas's up tilt faster is just dumb. All that said though, if anyone around here actually played it, I would too. It looks pretty fun.

To make a comment that isn't breaking the rules of the thread, is there any particular reason why you do so many cargo upthrows without jumping? You almost never manage to follow it up. If we can do better than that in regular Brawl, I'm sure you can do better than that in Brawl+.

TheNix said:

My biggest complaint about Brawl+ is that they have so many character-specific codes. Stuff like making Captain Falcon have less lag than everyone else and making Bowser take less damage and making Lucas's up tilt faster is just dumb. All that said though, if anyone around here actually played it, I would too. It looks pretty fun.

To make a comment that isn't breaking the rules of the thread, is there any particular reason why you do so many cargo upthrows without jumping? You almost never manage to follow it up. If we can do better than that in regular Brawl, I'm sure you can do better than that in Brawl+.

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Well we can't make everyone have the same attributes now can we?

But yes Brawl+ is very fun and hopefully the next set may be even more intense than ever.

TheNix said:

To make a comment that isn't breaking the rules of the thread, is there any particular reason why you do so many cargo upthrows without jumping? You almost never manage to follow it up. If we can do better than that in regular Brawl, I'm sure you can do better than that in Brawl+.

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I don't because I haven't really applied it to my game with DK in B+, whenever I do jump with it, I don't follow up as fast. However, I am very sure it's probably better to do...I'll have to mess with it this weekend if I have anyone over.

TheNix said:

My biggest complaint about Brawl+ is that they have so many character-specific codes. Stuff like making Captain Falcon have less lag than everyone else and making Bowser take less damage and making Lucas's up tilt faster is just dumb. All that said though, if anyone around here actually played it, I would too. It looks pretty fun.

To make a comment that isn't breaking the rules of the thread, is there any particular reason why you do so many cargo upthrows without jumping? You almost never manage to follow it up. If we can do better than that in regular Brawl, I'm sure you can do better than that in Brawl+.

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Well I think they're trying to make every character at least able to fight back. Some codes are necessary, like Sheik's ftilt needs to be nerfed otherwise she's 0-death everyone.

TheNix said:

My biggest complaint about Brawl+ is that they have so many character-specific codes. Stuff like making Captain Falcon have less lag than everyone else and making Bowser take less damage and making Lucas's up tilt faster is just dumb. All that said though, if anyone around here actually played it, I would too. It looks pretty fun.

To make a comment that isn't breaking the rules of the thread, is there any particular reason why you do so many cargo upthrows without jumping? You almost never manage to follow it up. If we can do better than that in regular Brawl, I'm sure you can do better than that in Brawl+.

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The reason he didn't follow up is because of the buffer. The buffer has been decreased to be more precise in your actions, otherwise problems occur with inputs when you want to change an action last second. An example of this is when you're pressing B and moving with Tornado. Because Brawl has a 10 frame buffer, if it clanks with another move and stops, the game will save your joystick tilting and B command for ten frames, and thus will execute Drill Rush even after the Tornado has stopped and you've stopped mashing B and moving left or right. This is just one example. So when he grabbed Falcon and threw him upward, he probably pressed jump while still in the throws animation, and there is no buffer for him to take advantage of; he acted too early.

But yeah, it's just something you need to get used to. I got used to it within an hour or so. Also, these codes are outdated. Now characters such as Captain Falcon have there momentum from previous games, and other additions have been made to improve the game.

Ussi said:

Well I think they're trying to make every character at least able to fight back. Some codes are necessary, like Sheik's ftilt needs to be nerfed otherwise she's 0-death everyone.

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I understand the nerfs, like making G&W have slightly more lag than others. What I don't like is the slight improvements and random tweaks (I think falling speeds and weights were also adjusted). Nothing will ever be perfectly balanced (you improve Captain Falcon until he's good, now he's too good, nerf him back, etc), and constantly tweaking specific characters means people will never get adjusted. Just let Link and Captain Falcon be mediocre and everything becomes more sensible.

Taking out buffering is pointless.

Falco400 said:

Haha, DK is reallehhhhh gooooodddd. Everything about him is better (except for his recovery). You gaiz should really give him a go if you ever get the chance to or want to set this shiz up.

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OmniOstrich said:

I always lagless recover, I almost find it better to have no auto sweetspot ledges for DK.

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Also all these posts about the project itself, ugh >_>

All I can say is that I'm so glad the SBR-B+ was made instead of letting everyone make decisions.

ook said:

itsthebigfoot said:

drizz, nobody plays it out here either

EDIT: also, i temporarily became color blind for the color yellow, so i'd like to take this time to say "brawl+ is way too premature, you should wait 2 more years before making it, play brawl instead"


and suddenly i'm not colorblind anymore, it's magic.

Click to expand...

Please Refrain From Discussing Brawl+ In General And Your Opinion Of The Project. Please Keep This Civil And Just Foam At The Mouth As To How Good Dk Is!


That said... I've never played brawl+... but I want to, cause DK looks pretty good.

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i told you i couldn't read yellow

TheNix said:

I understand the nerfs, like making G&W have slightly more lag than others. What I don't like is the slight improvements and random tweaks (I think falling speeds and weights were also adjusted). Nothing will ever be perfectly balanced (you improve Captain Falcon until he's good, now he's too good, nerf him back, etc), and constantly tweaking specific characters means people will never get adjusted. Just let Link and Captain Falcon be mediocre and everything becomes more sensible.

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Even though this isn't what this thread is discussing, I will take the reigns and reply to this.

As I have told everyone that doesn't know much about Brawl+, we are not trying to balance the game perfectly we are trying to make each character as good as they can be, maybe tournament viable would be the best way to describe it. We're not reaching out for "perfection", as that is impossible.

Everyone is pretty good right now, you need to play it before actually spouting anything about it. >_>;

Ragnar0k said:

Taking out buffering is pointless.

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It isn't actually. It makes the game feel much better to me, but, actually we haven't taken it out per se, it's stll in but at REALLY LOW frames (2-3 frames) and IMO, it is so much better and makes the game just feel less clunky to me and more precise. I don't SD anymore near the edge, I don't do accidental attacks, and I don't crouch after FF'ing any aerials (that isn't a HUGE deal in regular Brawl, but, in Brawl+ you will crouch after FF'ing a lot with normal buffer of 10 frames on).

Now plz let's get back on topic and not derail this.

New vid, pretty short, it's a sweet combo I pulled off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wFmdaLKq_A&feature=channel_page

Falcon will never be mediocre since his game needed hitstun.

I need to try DK out in B+ :o but I always end up using Ike cause of favoritism.

New matches:

0WN1N (DK) VS. BBoy (DDD)
0WN1N (DK) VS. 1der (Fox)

Wait, wat the hell is this brawl+ thing about?

Zenjamin said:

Wait, wat the hell is this brawl+ thing about?

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It is Brawl, hacked in such a way to make it more competitive. It pretty much has it's own forum, here: http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=209

Every time I watch a video of Brawl+ it tempts me to get the codes for it, but my friends aren't interested in playing it at all. They would rather just play Melee.

They really do seem like different games to me... or at least how brawl should have been. What I mean is, brawl+ is closer to brawl then it is to melee.... Despite the kickass combos, increased speed, and decreased camping.

I played ganon in melee, and after looking in brawl+ I wouldnt go back to ganon even though he is tournament worthy again.
Because he still feels and looks like brawl ganon. And DK still feels and looks like Brawl DK... only with realized potential.

DK is a complete new character in Brawl +

It would have been awesome if Brawl was exactly what Brawl+ is right now, but the fact of the matter is that it wasn't. As a result, most people aren't willing or aren't able to play like that, so it will never be nearly as played as the regular game.

If I were to get into Brawl+, though, I could definitely see myself using a lot of DK, Ike, and Charizard.

Ya'll should just get it, it takes 10 minutes to set up and you can always go back to regular Brawl whenever you want. DK in Brawl+ is WORTH IT, it's WORTH IT. Your friends will love it if they play Melee, just tell them that it's an improved Brawl and have them try it.

DK is just that good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6m2LLgMNV0

DK is much improved, but asides from no SH double Bairs (which is doesnt matter as you can do two SH single Bairs just as effectively), I think I see two more downsides.
His sideB looks pretty useless, and he can sometimes tie even if he is verry near the stage with his upBif he is at the ledge at a certian time in his ubB.

Does that seem right falco400? I get why 1:36 had to happen, but why was his sideB at 1:49 so ineffective?
Also, I havent sen anyone congo throw stage spike yet... can you?


Still... I love what you guys are doing for the community.

Zenjamin said:

Does that seem right falco400? I get why 1:36 had to happen, but why was his sideB at 1:49 so ineffective?

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Because his opponent struggled out of it. My friends are just as quick to get out of the ground in regular Brawl, which is why I almost always just use a down smash when the headbutt connects.

Oh... didnt know.
The only person I play regularly... well, he sucks.

Zenjamin said:

Also, I havent sen anyone congo throw stage spike yet... can you?

Still... I love what you guys are doing for the community.

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Yeah you still can, most people just get out of the cargo part though before I even Bthrow them against the stage, I actually did it in a WiFi B+ match on Bowser, but, I was lucky that time. Reason why I don't do it that much is because I have way many more fun options than in regular Brawl so, I mostly just go for the delicious combos.

You should really get this, Zenjamin. >_>

Oh yeah, some sexy combos below for DK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_gMc6sn5r4

meh. Those combos werent all that impressive. Those were things that maby could have happened in brawl.


This was sex though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVjjHM2x96w

Compare this, with this.
So does Fox **** DK in brawl+, or does he just **** in general?




Seriously though.
Cape is sex.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU3QrnFXxxE

Yeah dude, I know, Cape just discovered DK's beastliness the other day. He asked me if DK had always been this beastly and I was like "Dude, ever since Beta 2, DK has been like this, ALWAYS!" And now he uses him, DK is sooooooooooo good.