Timbers
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DEDEDE
Matchup:
40:60
General info:
What to avoid:
How to win:
Helpful tips:
Stages:
Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping matchup discussing clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past matchup, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.
Matchup:
40:60
General info:
I'd still have to consider DDD's kill potential less than average. Maybe calling it low was too extreme, but really it seems very difficult for DDD to set up any killers and relies mostly on the opponent making mistakes to nab kills rather than being able to trap or push the opponent for a kill. Utilt and bair yes, I forgot about gordos (however it's luck dependent no matter how gay/good it is), but the rest you mentioned are not something I'd consider good killmoves, or realistic ones, at least against Lucario. Fair I could see working on someone who's vulnerable while airborne and can be forced into the fair, but like, last time I was killed by a ddd fair was last summer lol. Uair and dair can both be SDI'd pretty easily. DDD's dsmash is...weird? It seems powerful but it's stupidly easy to DI the hit and live easily until 150-160%, and the move on block is extremely punishable as well. I'm not even going to talk about usmash and fsmash.
DDDs very vulnerable to punishment, which is normally a downfall for him but...Luc's punish game is just so trashy. I don't think waddles force an approach anymore than aurasphere does in this match, but should Luc be forced to approach due to percentage dis. or stock dis., DDD's defensive game really hurts Luc. Yeah he's a big target and you can put the hurt on him, but getting him in a vulnerable position like that is much more difficult than against most characters.
Dedede's used because of the overwhelming advantages that come with playing him. Good recovery, pretty damaging moves, that chain grab, of course.
For these reasons alone he's used, and he continues to give many characters trouble. Lucario can handle him, but a good Dedede a big problem for us.
What to avoid:
Ok well I main DDD so I wanted to give a little feedback. Against lucario's I find myself building up a lot of damage due to chaingrabs. His bair beats of any of lucarios aerials. I'm also not sure but his dair might outrange lucarios usmash. Also aura sphere has limited use due to the waddle dees. Dedede's tilts have good range. And Dedede has a lot easier time killing lucario then lucario does to D3.
DDD's ftilt is great for spacing as its faster and outranges lucarios fmash. that and dtilt (dont underestimate it, its got great priority and is fast) and shield grab shuts down most of lucarios ground options. pressuring with aura sphere on the ground wont work due to waddle dees but as said before easy to kill in the air because of his crappy air movement. inhale is a great combo breaker and can really change the momentum of a match. gordos can kill around 90 and keep the opponent on their feet with an 8% chance of getting one every time you press side b. (i think its 20% to get a waddle doo).
Also I know you guys probably dont do it much but never counter agianst a DDD because where other characters might attack a D3 might grab as we are more grab happy It will usually result in taking 20+% from a chain grab. But im sure you guys already knew that
How to win:
Lucario can combo the crap out of DDD and Lucario's Usmash is pretty amazing in this matchup since DDD's aerial mobility is balls. DDD's Waddles are overrated, they don't really stop Lucario's camping ability THAT much. They're just a minor annoyance imo.
So, yeah, everything I'd say has really been covered. A fully charged Aura Sphere can hit Dedede easier while he's recovering from the side due to his large size and how low his multiple jumps are. Use the Aura Sphere to KILL him then. AIM TO KILL!
Well to support the actual joke, when fighting against D3, dont do things that would be obvious, and mindgames are essential here, as dumb things will be punished via grab. It's not like he can shut down everything, he shuts down what is obvious that a Luc would do. He punishes Lucario easily, and like most battles, stay ahead of your opponent, a D3 offstage is a bad dedede, which in order to have a FULL control has to recover backward, as you have better air control than him, as long as he is facing you, you have the control in the air(****ing bair)
Helpful tips:
DDD has trouble killing smart opponents actually. It's pretty obvious that he's gonna try and kill you with Utilt. A sweet spotted Bair offstage is the most dangerous thing in this matchup as far as an early kill is concerned.
Stages:
I personally love taking DDD to Japes. As long as you don't get swallow gimped you should be fine. I like to just camp on the right side...it makes it EXTREMELY hard for DDD to approach and your AS hits him a lot more then his waddles will hit you. If he somehow gets on the platform on the right side and hits you offstage then you can just go in water to avoid any potential edgeguarding. Japes has the highest ceiling of all legal stages in the game and his main kill moves (Utilt, Gordo, Dsmash) kill vertically, the only one that doesn't is Bair and "mindgamed" Fsmash.
I would try to avoid Green Greens if it's allowed, Corneria if it's allowed or Rainbow Cruise if it's allowed. DDD will most likely try to CP Delfino or Halberd if you ban Corneria or Rainbow Cruise...some DDD's also like Castle Siege for some reason. I personally like Castle Siege for Lucario...on the second part of the stage just platform camp and don't let him walk you off.
Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping matchup discussing clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past matchup, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.