SelfPossessed
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 170
Baiting is a universal concept in the fighting game genre. Despite the broad spectrum that it encompasses, the actual implementation of baiting can vary greatly. Specific conditions such as the game environment, the character matchups, and even the players can lead to a large variety of possible bait setups.
This thread is meant to discuss baiting as Wolf by listing the various methods of baiting that people have successfully used already. It is up to the individual player to decide what works for them; not all of these setups are meant to work all the time. Not only is baiting matchup dependent, different players also react in different ways to the same situation.
It is also worth mentioning that I am a newbie. As my legitimacy as a gamer does detract from the validity of my statements, the contents of this post must be read with a grain a salt. Hardcore gamers may even dispute the way I am using the word bait. Nonetheless, it is my hope that this topic as a DISCUSSION will invite more accomplished players to provide valuable insight for those less experienced to absorb and improve with. In other words, don't just read, please contribute your setups and the reasoning behind them.
Table of Contents
- I. The Wolf Wall (FH)
- II. The Wolf Wall (SH)
- III. Juggling
- VI. Walk Jab
- V. Whiffing an Attack
- VI. One Trick Ponies (Blaster)
I. The Wolf Wall (FH version)
The Wolf Wall is a "wall" of well spaced bairs. In particular, I am referring to the FH version, or FH Bair FF Bair. Properly spaced, this is extremely safe and pressures the opponent. It sets up another wall attempt and encourages them to act out. Against the taller portion of the roster, you can aim the Bair at their head or feet to shield poke. As a prerequisite, the opponent must sufficiently fear the wall such that they react to it rather than ignore it (IE walling MK with his lightsaber).
Despite repeating what seems to be a predictable and mindless string of moves, I am actually using it to bait a response from my opponent by limiting when and how they will react. I will then attempt to predict their reactions based on their past actions and punish them accordingly.
- Combating the Player Reacting to the FIRST Bair of FH Bair FF Bair
The opponent attacks immediately before or after the FIRST Bair, typically with an aerial, dash attack, or a hypen up-smash. They are trying to interrupt you.
- FH Bair away (FF) Bair
Avoid their attack by DIing away, then punishing with the second Bair, better versus aerials, may not FF depending on enemy position.
[*] FH away (FF) Bair towards
Same as above except you trade the pressure of the first Bair for a smaller hurtbox.
[*] FH Shine FF Bair
Interrupt the attack with invincibility frames and try for a combo, riskier.
[*] SH away FF Bair towards
Avoid the attack by DIing away, then punishing with a FF Bair to a potential combo, better versus grounded attacks.
[*] Dash away SH towards FF Bair
Same as above except you trade speed for less vulnerability and more range.
[*] SH away Blaster
Similar to the SH Bair. Greater range, less damage and knockback.
[*] Shield/Spotdodge/Roll behind
Punish an enemy overextending themselves expecting a rising FH Bair. For shielding, you may opt to dash shield, which ruins their spacing for an easier shieldgrab.
[*] Jab/Ftilt/SH Fair
Interrupt an enemy overextending themselves expecting a rising FH Bair. All three moves have varying range, speed, and disjointedness.
[*] Walk away Fsmash
Avoid attacks by walking away, then punish with the Fsmash. Doesn't avoid as much as a jump, but there is less commitment (can do anything out of walk) and it's better at punishing moves that end early due to Fsmash's speed.
[*] Pivot Grab
Avoid the attack with the dash away, then interrupt/punish with the grab. The range of Pivot grab's is superior to a standing grab.
[*] Combating the Player Reacting to the SECOND Bair FH Bair FF Bair
The opponent is shielding/spotdodging/shield dashing/hyphen up-smashing in response to the SECOND Bair of your wall. You react with FH Bair FF AD into an advantageous position and follow up with one of several attacks.
* These options are highly dependent on WHERE you land
* Note that landing behind them is usually better than landing in front of them; if you land in front you will have to do a turnaround before attacking
* Also note that you can alter where you land if you predict a shield dash or hyphen-upsmash, hopefully ending up behind them
* In the case of hyphen-upsmash, you are timing the AD invincibility to avoid their attack
- FH Bair FF Bair
The non AD option. Predict their attack and space another Bair to pressure their shield or hit them out of an attack. If their shield is sufficiently pressured, expect a spotdodge or roll and punish immediately.
[*] FH Bair FF AD Jab
Stops spotdodge, interrupts attacks if they chase your landing frames, safe on shield, fastest option
[*] FH Bair FF AD Grab
Obliterates shield.
[*] FH Bair FF AD Dsmash
Going for the kill, may also shield poke if they held shield long enough.
[*] FH Bair FF AD Blaster
If they're too far for any other option (you landed in a bad spot).
- FH Bair away (FF) Bair
II. The Wolf Wall (SH version)
This is a variation of the Wolf Wall based on the SH approach. The idea is to condition opponents to expect a tipped FF Bair out of a SH, then do something else out of the SH. You can, of course, combine this with the FH approach for a more versatile Wolf Wall.
So, you're doing a SH towards the opponent. Your options are...
- SH FF Bair tipped
The basic conditioner. Pretty safe if done right, great range, combo potential. If it's shielded (not PS) and you're perfectly spaced, you can punish whiffed shield grabs/other OoS attempts.
[*] SH towards FF away (option of whiffing AC Bair)
Space it so it looks like you're going to just hit with Bair but whiff or do nothing instead.
Some will try to interrupt the anticipated Bair before you hit the ground. Since you're further back, their interrupt attempt will miss and you can punish with Fsmash.
Some will try to punish the landing lag even if they're out of range to do so. Follow up with:
- Turnaround Jab (speed and disjointed)
- Shine (invinc)
- Retreating SH Bair (spacing)
- Fsmash (damage and range)
- Spotdodge/Shield (defense)
- Grab or Dsmash (if they hold shield)
This also helps if they like to Dash shield a lot. By preparing to land further back beforehand, you'll actually end up spacing yourself correctly.
[*]SH towards wavebounce Blaster
Safely covers nearly every option an opponent has to stopping approaching SH FF Bair. Timed right, the wavebounce will avoid attacks meant to interrupt the Bair. Forces a reaction out of shielders. Timed right, the Blaster can also punish the spotdodge vulnerability frames.
[*] SH towards, DJ away
Also known as air camping, which is more of Wario's territory. Although Wolf isn't nearly as good at it due to slower aerial acceleration, he's still more than capable compared to the rest of the cast.
Note that air camping is inherently risky as if you guess wrong and get hit off stage without a DJ, you may not make it back. Air camping is then doable only at certain percents and/or if the enemy's back is to the ledge. The latter positioning is usually preferable, with maybe the exception of DDD on Final Destination.
How early you DJ away completely depends on what the opponent is doing.
- Against aggressive opponents, DJ away EARLIER to avoid the attack. If they don't do an aerial, you probably won't be able to punish it; don't overextend yourself trying. Note that the earlier two options out of SH cover aggressive opponents, so this might be less likely.
[*] Against defensive opponents, you'll want to DJ away LATER to get them to hold shield longer. Note that spotdodge spamming opponents are prone to option 2. Most defensive opponents will therefore shield, maybe dash shield. This also avoids PS.
Although you aren't hitting them when air camping, you're actually shield pressuring them. Space a FF Bair out of the DJ. It'll either shield poke them due to smaller shield, and if not, try for a Fsmash shield break or Dsmash/Dtilt shield poke.
- Turnaround Jab (speed and disjointed)
III. Juggling
The opponent is above you and hopefully not DIing too far away for you to juggle. They will most likely AD or Dair. Your goal is to bait their preferred moves, then punish the vulnerability frames. Of special note is that successfully baiting and punishing a juggle sets up another juggle opportunity.
- FH/SH/FHDJ rising Uair/Bair. Then DJ or FF a Uair/Bair/Fair
Use a whiffed aerial to bait the AD. Spaced correctly (Uair or Bair such that if they did not AD, Uair/Bair would whiff), you can DJ or FF an aerial to punish the AD. Uair can also interrupt slower or low priority aerials.
[*] SH wait DJ/FF Uair/Fair/Bair
Use the motion of the first SH to bait the AD or aerial, then punish with a DJ (if they are higher up) or FF (if they are closer) to whatever move will reach them.
[*] FH Shine
Interrupt the aerial.
[*] Utilt/Usmash
Wait for the opponent to AD/aerial prematurely when expecting Uairs, then hit them with a grounded attack instead.
[*] Shield/Spotdodge
Position yourself close enough to easily punish an aerial attack. Shield to grab or OoS Fair/Bair/Uair. Consider spotdodge instead of shield against multihit aerials that poke well.
[*] Punish the landing lag
Position yourself to punish them the moment they touch the ground. There will be 2+ frames of vulnerability. Punish with a pivot grab, Fsmash, dash grab, etc.
IV. Walk Jab
Wolf's aerial game is vastly superior to his ground. Nonetheless, as far as ground moves go, Jab is extremely versatile and safe. It acts like a slightly weaker version of Marth's DB (side B) in that it's disjointed, stops spot dodge, refreshes attacks on hit, and is safe on shield if stopped early.
I'd like to note that walking forwards and jabbing works extremely well for me, primarily because I'm oftentimes retreating in the air. The sudden change in pace can catch opponents off guard. I also like to use Jab by holding A and immediately holding shield afterwards. Holding A stops spotdodges better than tapping it repeatedly and holding shield allows me to defend if the Jab clashes with another move.
So, you walk forward and Jab. If it interrupts or just plain hits, it hits. If the opponent spotdodges, it hits. The situation where baiting comes into play is when Jab is shielded (not PS). So long as you stop jabbing before the third hit, you are safe on shield. Now what? The opponent is at a frame advantage. Chances are extremely high that you will see immediate retaliation. So, what do you do?
Though the options are similar, due to being closer up, you have fewer options than in the Wolf Wall.
- Spotdodge to attack
Avoids moves, the important one in particular being the typical SHIELD GRAB NAOW reaction most players have.
[*] Shield to OoS options
When they catch on to your spotdodging their grab.
[*] Roll behind them
Avoid their attack and punish.
[*] Pivot Grab
Avoid the attack with the dash, interrupt/punish it with the grab.
[*] SH away FF Bair towards
Avoid attacks and punish with a FF Bair combo.
[*] Dash away to SH towards FF Bair
Same as above except you trade speed for less vulnerability.
[*] FH FF Bair/Uair
Avoid the attack by creating vertical distance, can crossover if preferred.
[*] SH FF Bair crossover
Avoid the low attack by going behind them.
[*] Retreat with Roll, FH Shine, etc.
If you feel unsure (IE against D3), then a safe retreat may be preferable.
If they try for crossover pivot grabs, the aerial options do well against it.
I understand that many do not consider this situation a bait setup. I would argue that in the context of Brawl and its game mechanics, this is baiting. Due to shield deterioration, you cannot sit and hold shield in Brawl the way you can hold guard in other fighting games. Even spotdodging mindlessly can get you punished (2 frame startup vulnerability, 5 frame ending vulnerability). As such, setting up a situation whereby you know WHEN the opponent attacks and WHAT they will probably attack with should be considered baiting.
Just in case, I also do understand that Brawl is extremely defensive as far as fighters are concerned.
V. Whiff an Attack
Try missing an attack on purpose, then observe what your opponent does. If you see a reactionary pattern to certain moves, you can capitalize on it by purposely whiffing the attack and punishing them.
- Throw out an attack (Ftilt is recommended for this, though Usmash/Dsmash/general ground moves works as well) when the opponent isn't that close. Depending on the distance and character specifics (movement, moveset), you can interrupt their punish attempt with a Jab.
- Some players like to roll when you start jabbing as jab lasts a while and moves you forward. Whiff a SINGLE jab to bait the roll. Punish it (pivot grab, Fsmash, turnaround Dsmash, whatever you like). This can also apply to other moves as well.
- When players are at high percents and close to the ledge (but not planking), they begin to fear the Dsmash and try to find a way to move towards the middle of the stage. Figure out how they will move (roll? SHAD? empty jump? etc.) and what causes that move. Chances are, they'll be nervous and will jump at any opening towards the middle that they perceive.
- Jab whiff -> punish
- Retreating empty jump (FF AD) -> punish
- Walk away -> punish
- Stand still -> punish (this works surprisingly)
- Jab whiff -> punish
- If the enemy is at high enough a percentage that a non-DIed Fair can kill them, you can also whiff several Dsmashes in a row to get them to expect it. Then hit them with the Fair. Chances are, they'll be DIing up in anticipation of that Dsmash.
- Some players can also be baited with whiffed ACed aerials. FF Bair, FF AD, FF Uair, and Fair can all be used. Punish with Fsmash, Dsmash, DACUS, dash grab, etc.
- For example, some players rush in and attack after Wolf does a retreating Fair. Interrupt them with Fsmash, Jab, Ftilt, etc.
- Other players try to shield grab or dash to punish a FF Bair even if it's properly spaced or just plain whiffs. Turnaround Jab, Shine, retreating SH Bair, Fsmash, etc. all work as punishers here.
- For example, some players rush in and attack after Wolf does a retreating Fair. Interrupt them with Fsmash, Jab, Ftilt, etc.
VI. One Trick Ponies
For the sake of completion, here are two other bait setups that will work the first time. Good opponents catch on fairly quickly, so these are not reliable. They should therefore be used with extreme caution.
- Blaster Blaster Blaster...
The typical reaction to this is walking PS. Some opponents will get used to the timing of the PS instead of reacting to the laser, whereby a delayed blaster, dash grab, etc. will land a free hit.
Conclusion
Again, none of what I have posted should be taken as the be all end all. I know that many will disagree with how I have interpreted the word baiting. Others will disagree on my entire approach of CONDITIONING the opponent and punishing accordingly. Even so, I do hope that this post will promote discussion into HOW Wolf players can use their tools to mindgame their opponents rather than on the properties of specific moves themselves. Simply telling a newbie like me to mindgame my opponents or that spaced Bairs are super safe doesn't help me much after all. Specific setups as examples help much more.
Still, just in case, I'd like to apologize for any misconceptions, misinformation, and/or errors that the above may contain.
Finally, as stated previously, this is not an exhaustive list. Please do reply with your own setups for further discussion.
Further Reading
- Brickwalls and Traps: The keys to victory
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183816
- Marth's Traps and Brickwalls (example thread for Marth)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183969
I start spamming walk jab and try to bait attacks so I can punish with a retreating Bair (it's hard to bait without walling though). If I shield something, I'm usually facing forwards, which is where my options are. It's not the best tactic so I am looking for new things to try.
