BRAWL+ Character Ratings

Jiangjunizzy · Mar 13, 2009

Due to the undying need for a tierlist shown apparent by many players interested in Brawl+, I decided to throw together a Character Stats thread. This does not say who is best or the worst, it is simply a means of spelling out the traits and stats of every character. It is quite obvious that bowser is superior to fox in terms of having his shield attacked, but it is also even more obvious that if fox approaches successfully, his options from this approach are vastly superior to that of a Bowser. This rates characters on a scale from A->F. This is not a complete list, nor a completely accurate one. In fact, I'd prefer you let me know if I'm wrong so I can update it.

It's very important you read the description of every category!

And it's also very important to understand that this does not take into consideration player skill. This is a character's overall ability to cope with all of these facets of gameplay.

note: characters are graded in relationship to one another.

Endurance - The character's ability to survive attacks.
Gimp Resistence - The character's ability to return to the stage and avoid being gimped.
Mobility - The character's overall ability to move around the stage.
Resilience - The character's ability to avoid strings or combos.
Spacing - The character's ability to use attacks to maintain the optimal distance from an enemy.
GTFO of Me - The characters's ability to shieldgrab or knock a nearby opponent away that fails at his offense or defense.
Approach - The character's ability to pressure an opponent's defense.
Follow-Ups - The character's ability to build damage through a successful punish or a successful approach.
Combo Finisher - The character's ability to end a combo/string with a finishing move.
Punish KOs - The characters ability to KO an opponent due to a failed offense/defense.
Gimping - The character's ability to keep a recovering opponent off the stage.

SCALE
A - Godly
B - Excellent
C - Good
D - Average
F - Bad

Christopher Rodriguez · Mar 13, 2009

I haven't really looked at this thread thoroughly, but being a ex-wario main in competitive vbrawl I can tell you wario either gains no benefit or is hampered by b+. Auto lcancelling doesn't affect him too much since he was a primarily an autocancel character. Just trying to guide you, this actually looks pretty nice. Nice work man =D

Rikana · Mar 13, 2009

Nice thread. Very useful. Good job Jiang.

Zodac · Mar 13, 2009

ALL THE SPACING IS WRONG, horribly wrong

so are ice climbers

Digitalism · Mar 13, 2009

Samus has missles and a variety of safe and shield damaging attacks.

CloneHat · Mar 13, 2009

What do you really mean by "defensive options"?

Christopher Rodriguez · Mar 13, 2009

CloneHat said:
What do you really mean by "defensive options"?

I'm assuming he means spacing and such. Look at captain falcon for instance, no priority whatsoever and no safe move basically. That's bad defense if you ask me.

Zodac · Mar 13, 2009

^moves you can use without getting *****/punished, like marth f air.

Samus has missles and a variety of safe and shield damaging attacks.

but there still trash

Ulevo · Mar 13, 2009

Jiangjunizzy said:
Due to the undying need for a tierlist shown apparent by many players

Jiangjunizzy said:
Due to the undying need for a tierlist

Jiangjunizzy said:
Due to the undying need

Jiangjunizzy said:
undying need

Jiangjunizzy said:
need

They don't NEED a Tier List.

This thread will do nothing but encourage meaningless arguments, and for what? A list that isn't even accurate?

CloneHat · Mar 13, 2009

^^It shows who's good at what. It's a helpful topic.

Ulevo · Mar 13, 2009

CloneHat said:
^^It shows who's good at what. It's a helpful topic.

It shows what people argue each character is good at what, and quite honestly, we have better things we could be debating right now. A tier list will naturally form over time once we're actually finish. Why are we even attempting to make a tier list/ranking list/rating list when it could suddenly change anyway?

Digitalism · Mar 13, 2009

Zodac said:
Samus has missles and a variety of safe and shield damaging attacks.

but there still trash

Mind explaining how safe moves make bad approach?

Jiangjunizzy · Mar 13, 2009

ulevo, i don't want to argue with you.

leafgreen386 · Mar 13, 2009

Jiangjunizzy said:
ulevo, i don't want to argue with you.

jiang, I want you to argue with ulevo.

Earthbound Zero · Mar 13, 2009

Captain Falcon has an A in Finishing, and Shiek has a B? Neither of them have amazingly easy to land, powerful KO moves.

Why does Ness have a C in reaction? He does have quite a bit out of shield options. Ex. Nair, Upsmash, etc.

Ulevo · Mar 13, 2009

Jiangjunizzy said:
ulevo, i don't want to argue with you.

There really isn't anything to argue. This is a poor, unnecessary idea. This post proved exactly what it was I was explaining:

Digitalism said:
Zodac said:

Samus has missles and a variety of safe and shield damaging attacks.

but there still trash

Click to expand...

Mind explaining how safe moves make bad approach?

Jiangjunizzy · Mar 13, 2009

i changed the categories around a bit. i'll fix it up later.

@ulevo: that's great. i'm glad you like it.

Mr.-0 · Mar 14, 2009

I don't see anything...

Morrigan · Mar 14, 2009

Brawl+ doesn't have a definite codeset. What's the point in making a list for a "game" that's not even finished?

For a tier list you'd need what Brawl has. Look around [character boards, long discussions, match-up analysis, TOURNAMENTS, etc]

Rudra · Mar 14, 2009

It...might be a bit too soon for something like this. I like the idea and all, but with future changes being implemented (or discussed in the case of NADT) to not only physics but characters and a lack of the stuff mentioned in Dekuu's post, I dont think the ratings will be all that solid...

matt4300 · Mar 14, 2009

Dekuu said:
Brawl+ doesn't have a definite codeset. What's the point in making a list for a "game" that's not even finished?

For a tier list you'd need what Brawl has. Look around [character boards, long discussions, match-up analysis, TOURNAMENTS, etc]

1: I don't think theres gonna be any new codes that will change the chars enough for that to matter.

2. This isent a teir list... the chars were not (its not up anymore) ranked or in any order. This is more a showing of what the chars are good and bad at. I think its if anything entertaining to discuss...

Rudra · Mar 14, 2009

matt4300 said:
1: I don't think theres gonna be any new codes that will change the chars enough for that to matter.

2. This isent a teir list... the chars were not (its not up anymore) ranked or in any order. This is more a showing of what the chars are good and bad at. I think its if anything entertaining to discuss...

Oh, thats the case! Hahah, I didnt look at it that way. ^^;

GHNeko · Mar 14, 2009

matt4300 said:
1: I don't think theres gonna be any new codes that will change the chars enough for that to matter.

2. This isent a teir list... the chars were not (its not up anymore) ranked or in any order. This is more a showing of what the chars are good and bad at. I think its if anything entertaining to discuss...

You do realize that if the B+ Gecko OS is 100% good to go, nerfs/buffs will happen ie MK's Nado and Dsmash nerf will comeback, Samus Charge shot, etc etc.

That and mechanic changes to the game might affect someone ie hitstun ie momentum.

matt4300 · Mar 14, 2009

GHNeko said:
You do realize that if the B+ Gecko OS is 100% good to go, nerfs/buffs will happen ie MK's Nado and Dsmash nerf will comeback, Samus Charge shot, etc etc.

That and mechanic changes to the game might affect someone ie hitstun ie momentum.

I know!!! are you as excited as I am! Ive been waiting for this since the no trip code 5 or so months ago. I am pretty sick of the hitstun going down ... more and more. hitstun is the only mechanic that could drasticly change this thread, but its not going to be change that much more.

MuBa · Mar 14, 2009

Ulevo, this thread actually can help us in the back room to further understand what changes are needed to make everyone viable to tournaments. We can't just focus on crap characters like Bowser and Samus all the time. We have to see everyone at every angle. This project took already 6 months in the making, I'm sure it will take 6 more just to get every code and balance.

Keep up the good work Jiang.

Zindura · Mar 14, 2009

My friends and I have been having a blast with Brawl+, but we agree there is some hilariously bad balance.

Our take on the current balance is that the game is almost entirely aerial. Ground-based characters who draw any amount of their KO/damage potential from their ground game get stomped (to sweet-spot knee). They just can't keep up with massively faster aerials.

I play Lucas, and any time I feel like I should ftilt to poke, it always seems like a better alternative to sh fair for the ability to choose whether to fade back or press the offense.

I understand that there's opposition to wavedashing in Brawl+, but the ground game needs the spacing and mobility badly. I've been trying to add it to the Brawl+ code, but I guess there's a 256 limit or something...

I've noticed that individual moves have been speeded up, and I hope that we'll be able to alter damage and even hitboxes sometime in the future.

Sukai · Mar 14, 2009

Beats my fail thread by a long shot, nice work here.
Personally I think Fox's zoning should be a D at the least.
Considering his shine has credible offensive potential, that causes people to think carefully about how they approach/recover.

CountKaiser · Mar 14, 2009

If we were to take the "GPA's" of the characters, with

F = 0
D = 1
C = 2
B = 3
A = 4

They are as follows.

[Fox]
2.25

[Lucario]
2.5

[Ganon]
2

[Bowser]
2

[Samus]
2.625

[Kirby]
2.875

[Falco]
2.5

[Charizard]
2.5

[Ness]
2.5

[Sheik]
2.25

[Donkey Kong]
2.5

[Metaknight]
2.75

[Link]
1.5

[Captain Falcon]
2.125

[Mario]
2.5

[Zelda]
2.25

[Snake]
2.875

[Marth]
3.125

[Sonic]
1.875

[Pikachu]
2.5

[Lucas]
2

Looking at the current result set
MAX = 3.125
MIN = 1.5
AVERAGE = 2.262 (rounded off to the thousandth)
MEDIAN = 2.5
MODE = 2.5

Now obviously everyone cannot be at least the average, but if we were to suppose that someone must fall within the average to be considered tourney viable, say .26 points within it (making 2 the absolute lowest limit for tourney viability), then Link and Sonic aren't tourney viable. Not only tat, but the data shows that they need buffs more than anyone else.

Once KB code comes out, the easiest thing to modify would be their killing power. If both of their killing power's were made to be A, Link would then be 1.875 and Sonic would be 2.375. From this, Link STILL wouldn't be viable.

These are just numbers, though, and I don't know how you plan to use them. I'm just throwing out scenarios and such.

Also, according to this, Marth is the best character in the game, with Snake being second, and MK being third. Therefore if we should ne nerfing anyone, it should be Marth.

DemonFart · Mar 14, 2009

ugh...marth

Kataefi · Mar 14, 2009

Just curiously... have they nerfed anything regarding Zelda in terms of knockbackpower?

Normally she's a very good killer in normal brawl, but she's been ranked B here much to my surprise.

CountKaiser · Mar 14, 2009

She's probably been ranked B in comparison to others. That's not to say that she was nerfed, rather that there are others who are better at killing than her.

Rawnie · Mar 14, 2009

Hmm, Marth - still good

Link- Still sux

Lol.

Revven · Mar 14, 2009

thesilentmarth said:
Hmm, Marth - still good

Link- Still sux

Lol.

Link is actually really good (better than he is in vBrawl). This by no means is a tier list, as the title suggests, it is a ranking sorta thing. It doesn't account for player skill much.

JOE! · Mar 14, 2009

just reduce Marths tipper abilities some, with it, his favorite moves become gaurenteed killers.

Mr.-0 · Mar 14, 2009

Nah, I say keep marth's tippers. You have to have something that makes a character unique.

Jiangjunizzy · Mar 14, 2009

it's important to read the description for each stat. zelda's killing power is bad because her ability to KO is mostly rested upon her punishing ability. the finishing category is only geared towards characters that can turn a successful approach into a KO.

Swordplay · Mar 14, 2009

CountKaiser said:
[Link]
1.5

Looking at the current result set
MAX = 3.125
MIN = 1.5
AVERAGE = 2.262 (rounded off to the thousandth)
MEDIAN = 2.5
MODE = 2.5

Now obviously everyone cannot be at least the average, but if we were to suppose that someone must fall within the average to be considered tourney viable, say .26 points within it (making 2 the absolute lowest limit for tourney viability), then Link and Sonic aren't tourney viable. Not only tat, but the data shows that they need buffs more than anyone else.

Once KB code comes out, the easiest thing to modify would be their killing power. If both of their killing power's were made to be A, Link would then be 1.875 and Sonic would be 2.375. From this, Link STILL wouldn't be viable.

These are just numbers, though, and I don't know how you plan to use them. I'm just throwing out scenarios and such.

Also, according to this, Marth is the best character in the game, with Snake being second, and MK being third. Therefore if we should ne nerfing anyone, it should be Marth.

Problem with sonic is that he has combo trouble and his momentum needs to be fine tuned so he has safe follow ups.

The problem with Link is he sucks. Sakuri gave him a terrible moveset and we can't necessarily change that or should. Personally I don't think he recovers as bad as oli or Ivy so I'd argue D but thats really it.

Link has few moves that combo into each other as most of his moves last too long or have just enough knock back to knock them out of range. This wouldn't be a problem if he had any other attributes but he doesn't

Historically Link is the worst character in the game. want to know why? terrible moveset. No matter where he was: 64 melee or brawl, Link was bottom tier in 2 games and low-mid in 1. His moveset was consistently terrible. It's not Brawl+'s fault. It's Sakuri's

Although I think if spin attack where adjusted with a knockback or give a semi-spike again. code he would be able to jab cancel into it and have better kill options. That would probably balnce it out. Knockback code would really fix him but we don't have it yet.

Morrigan · Mar 14, 2009

Sakurai .

RyuReiatsu · Mar 14, 2009

JOE! said:
just reduce Marths tipper abilities some, with it, his favorite moves become gaurenteed killers.

Don't you even dare, Marth ain't as easy to play with as it seems. He has no safe killmoves.

Mr.-0 said:
Nah, I say keep marth's tippers. You have to have something that makes a character unique.

Way to go brother :laugh:

.

@Comments about Link: Is he really all that bad of a character? I've started playing with him and I think he should be ranked somewhere a bit higher up. His 3 gadgets make him really good, if he could semi-spike with the spin, that'd be great... Since he lacks killing moves now.

I don't know, I might be wrong.
He just seems very good when you can mindgame properly with his 3 projectiles.

I'd suggest fixing his ground grab too.

Morrigan · Mar 14, 2009

RyuReiatsu said:
He just seems very good when you can mindgame properly with his 3 projectiles.

I'd suggest fixing his ground grab too.

Everyone can mind-game properly with his/her "X". That's why Link stays bad.

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