KoSa!'s DK matchups

KoSa! · Mar 15, 2009

This thread isnt meant to take the spot of the matchup discussion.http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193883

I guess this will be like a mini matchup thread, based on my opinion. Its not meant to remove the old one, its just like something that can go alongside it. If there is any problem with a matchup please dont just say "the matchup is this". Provide some examples and it can be discussed. I will also try and write out the matchups for some of the questionable ones.

Updates will be made to this chart.

magikguy · Mar 15, 2009

cool looking chart, though i think marth is 50/50

sMexy-Blu · Mar 15, 2009

You should change the DeDeDe Matchup from 80-20 to LOL

CELTiiC · Mar 15, 2009

IMO, IC's are a more 60-40 over all advantage against DK. I also don't agree with Bowser and Ike, I think they're more even. Bowser around 50-50 or 55-45 and Ike around 55-45, 60-40 (DK Favor). Otherwise this is pretty good.

Ragnar0k · Mar 15, 2009

DK>Snake.

L2 down b.

itsthebigfoot · Mar 15, 2009

Ragnar0k said:
DK>Snake.

L2 down b.

this

same applies to ice climbers, seriously, not that hard to not get grabbed

yoshi is a dk advantage, yoshi boards have admitted it for a while, and if they changed it, who cares, they're the yoshi boards.

toon link and lucario are not disadvantages, space better. mario is definitely not a disadvantage.

bowser is not that much of an advantage, zamus is probably a disadvantage.

pit and zelda are advantages, peach is neutral to slight advantage.

oli i could get into a whole long argument about, but i'm just going to record matches against olimars and post them (still kicking myself for not recording when i 2-0's skank)

EDIT: lucas is much easier than 6-4, squirtle too, charizard is neutral, luigi is a disadvantage

Ussi · Mar 15, 2009

lol @ Ike.

ook · Mar 15, 2009

Yeah Ike is probably not 30:70.... He's one of the few people who can actually outrange DK.

So as long as they space well and stay near the middle of the stage (so they don't get cargo gimped) it's a pretty hard match. :dizzy:

And samus should probably be a little higher. There's not much DK can do about airdodge>zair

Plus she's hard to edgeguard (cause of bomb jumps) and she's pretty heavy, so she lives a while. And she's got a good spike, so DK can die pretty quickly sometimes.

also, Captain Falcon is not as bad as people think, lol. Definitely not "OVER 9000"
Nobody wants to admit it, but I think Falcon has a pretty decent matchup against DK.... :lick:

daisho · Mar 15, 2009

I never understood what was so bad about captain falcon...

Before I assault your post like everyone else im going to wait for your explanations... then i will destroy your post limb from limb.

Ragnar0k · Mar 15, 2009

I think oli could possibly be DK advantage. Down b>Olimar.

I wish I still had the replay of me 3 stocking nc-echo's olimar.

magikguy · Mar 15, 2009

ike is a difficult match with those annoying jab, but cargo gimp those give dk an advantage.

Likeness101 · Mar 15, 2009

I loled at captain falcon. I say Marth should be 50-50, Bowser 60:40 and IC 65-35 their favour.

B!squick · Mar 15, 2009

You're opinion of Boozer makes me sad indeed. If BAir wasn't so amazing it'd be more even, possible-possible advantage to Bowser. But BAir can only take you so far. It's not 30/70.

sMexy-Blu · Mar 15, 2009

The Bowse-DK matchup is pretty close I say its 55/45 DK's favor but not 30/70.

DK has teh BAir but Boozer has teh Grab releaze.

CELTiiC · Mar 15, 2009

sMexy-Blu said:
The Bowse-DK matchup is pretty close I say its 55/45 DK's favor but not 30/70.

DK has teh BAir but Boozer has teh Grab releaze.

So true lol

itsthebigfoot · Mar 15, 2009

bowser can't do anything to dk out of the grab release, dks ground break leaves him at a 1 frame disadvantage, dk's quickest attack comes out 1 frame before bowsers. it's the only character were a ground break literally = nothing. that being said bowser has the oos game, which is much scarier for a character that likes to pressure shields

also, marth is fine as is, and ic's have a problem with dk.

magikguy · Mar 15, 2009

wait til he plays an epic bowser , they ****

itsthebigfoot · Mar 15, 2009

dude, i know bowser

Tx3Fate · Mar 15, 2009

That matchup list made me smile. I'm not sure if thats a compliment or an insult to the OP

The more I play this game, the more I am convinced that matchups have more to do with one's playstyle than just a characters base limitations.

That said, I find -good- IC's easy to beat. 50-50 to 60-40 in ICs favor at worst imo.

I definently beat snakes above my level as well, so I would say its 6:4 for DK.

And Oli is still up in the air. I've beaten good Oli's in the jersey area. But then again, I still find the match up to be somewhere around 60-40 for oli.

blakinola · Mar 15, 2009

oli has the adv against DK

grab and pivot grab > dk's moves

Ragnar0k · Mar 15, 2009

down b> oli's grabs

Tx3Fate · Mar 15, 2009

still doesn't mean he can't zone DK well.

Ragnar0k · Mar 15, 2009

I've never really had a problem getting zoned by an olimar. In fact, I zone them.

KoSa! · Mar 16, 2009

I have yet to find a Bowser or a Ike that is actually a good fight. I admit it is a stretch to me its more like 40:60. IC are a big problem for DK. I mean Down B does take care of nana, but I never go DK vs IC. lol, the dedede one should be lol, but I took in the ability to use tilts and somewhat land Bairs. And its never like the dedede gets a guaranteed 3 stock.

Ussi · Mar 16, 2009

KoSa! said:
I have yet to find a Bowser or a Ike that is actually a good fight. I admit it is a stretch to me its more like 40:60. IC are a big problem for DK. I mean Down B does take care of nana, but I never go DK vs IC. lol, the dedede one should be lol, but I took in the ability to use tilts and somewhat land Bairs. And its never like the dedede gets a guaranteed 3 stock.

You never played Ryko before? He lives in NYC o_o and went to Jersey tourneys. Course he stopped and now plays Snake for now (as of some days ago)

Rykoshet · Mar 16, 2009

<_< have you been to a jersey tournament that wasn't like... gaming world?

KoSa! · Mar 16, 2009

ook said:
Yeah Ike is probably not 30:70.... He's one of the few people who can actually outrange DK.
So as long as they space well and stay near the middle of the stage (so they don't get cargo gimped) it's a pretty hard match.

And samus should probably be a little higher. There's not much DK can do about airdodge>zair
Plus she's hard to edgeguard (cause of bomb jumps) and she's pretty heavy, so she lives a while. And she's got a good spike, so DK can die pretty quickly sometimes.

also, Captain Falcon is not as bad as people think, lol. Definitely not "OVER 9000"
Nobody wants to admit it, but I think Falcon has a pretty decent matchup against DK....

An ike has to play a perfect space game or he lose a stock.

Samus' zair can be side stepped, or running shield. The bomb arent that hard to predict, and can be intercepted with a Bair or Fair. Her spike isnt good she has a spike, and anyone who has a spike gets an advantage on a offstage DK.

Why hasnt anyone complained about mario. I actually was going to make that 60:40

KoSa! · Mar 16, 2009

Rykoshet said:
<_< have you been to a jersey tournament that wasn't like... gaming world?

Bro I've heard of you. You made me want to play ike, until I fought my bros mario and got gimped 3 times in row. Do you still play ike, would love to get a friendly sometime.

olimars can actually go 60:40.

EDIT: i see a few mistakes im going to remake the chart.

Rykoshet · Mar 16, 2009

Yeah I still play him enough to keep him. I lost to AK47 at COT4 but both were down to the wire, admittedly I played dumb but he was pretty exceptional all around. And I lost to bum but, well, it's bum. I need to work on that matchup anyway so yeah um if I go back to jersey for an event i'll hit you up or something.

KoSa! · Mar 16, 2009

Rykoshet said:
Yeah I still play him enough to keep him. I lost to AK47 at COT4 but both were down to the wire, admittedly I played dumb but he was pretty exceptional all around. And I lost to bum but, well, it's bum. I need to work on that matchup anyway so yeah um if I go back to jersey for an event i'll hit you up or something.

Bum is starting those bi-weeklys soon right? hopefully I can take a train down there and play you guys.

I put mario at a questionable 55 60. Mario gimps he like no tomorrow, and your only reliable cp is Japes. He owns DK on every neutral due to fireball spaces and other things. Utilt to Uair chain can take DK to 60% and put he off stage and led to a Fsmash if your not ready. If he techs your stage spike you can expect a cape and thats it. And overall a very annoying match.

Olimar moved up, experienced it first hand against a novice olimar. Grabs and spacing and DK is helpless. Don't mention DownB, because its a very predictable move and wont work all the time. You only hope is edgeguarding, but if he stays in the center which is easy for him, GL.

I think I can do the ZSS one but I just dont know alot about this one. I mean the Dsmash is a pain and sideB is easy to land due to DK's large frame + small shield. She is hard to gimp with her 3 jumps. and the items in the beginning will make or break the match for DK. But I still dont know enough. I had the chance to play Snakeee but I played him with my peach which was dumb.

Zelda I kinda know but not to many main her, and IDK. Her dins fire beats DK approach, except for a SA upB(which I think I like the only DK who does this) and even after getting in she can beat DK with tilts and her Fair Bair dont make a difference for DK's weight. And she has a super good spike, one of the best in the game. Uair is like a juggle plus finisher.

Yoshi outranges with grabs, so I hear. And the eggs are a good projectile.

Pit spams arrows, but gets gimped easy.

Peach has no options in this one but I still dont know

Ussi · Mar 16, 2009

only time Cargo Gimp works is when Ike was grabbed near the ledge and was at a moderate % that he couldn't mash out in time.

So it's not an auto stock loss. 2nd, Ike has jab cancels + aether spiking. I play ultimo/AK47 all the time, it never really was auto stock loss.

KoSa! · Mar 16, 2009

Ussi said:
only time Cargo Gimp works is when Ike was grabbed near the ledge and was at a moderate % that he couldn't mash out in time.

So it's not an auto stock loss. 2nd, Ike has jab cancels + aether spiking. I play ultimo/AK47 all the time, it never really was auto stock loss.

I'm not saying just cargo, I talking about Bthrow off stage and now he has to recover while DK edgeguards. And cargo walk of Dthrow no FF, shoguard is auto stock in my eyes. But whatever you entitled to what you believe in. Hopefully I can play Ryokshet, and even you.

Ussi · Mar 16, 2009

KoSa! said:
I'm not saying just cargo, I talking about Bthrow off stage and now he has to recover while DK edgeguards. And cargo walk of Dthrow no FF, shoguard is auto stock in my eyes. But whatever you entitled to what you believe in. Hopefully I can play Ryokshet, and even you.

Well, I don't travel much to North Jersey since I have no money. I go to college in Philly where I play ultimo so that's where I pay most of my time. In time I'll eventually start going to tourneys again though. I even wrote the DK vs Ike match up analysis (that is used for both Ike and DK boards, numbers are varied though but I don't care about that [but 30:70 was lol])

Ike isn't hopeless after being throw off. Its not like you're DDD or MK with 4 jumps. DK can't go low like Ike since DK have no vertical recovery. All Ike has to do is AD low and he'll be fine. Also, if DK gets greedy, he'll get aether spiked which equals death.

EDIT: Just clicked in my head that DK ftilts/bairs/fsmashes aether. hmm.. idk, for some reason that doesn't happen to much to me o_O

magikguy · Mar 16, 2009

no way u tilt to uair can do 60 damage. (mario)

Ussi · Mar 16, 2009

magikguy said:
no way u tilt to uair can do 60 damage. (mario)

there are vids... Maro did a utilt > 6 uairs > fsmash kill (its in Do the Mario vid)

KoSa! · Mar 16, 2009

magikguy said:
no way u tilt to uair can do 60 damage. (mario)

Yea a mario vs DK, is like melee training for mario. DK's only hope is a stage cp. And to do extremely well on the netural. I suggest going BF so you have platforms to dodge fireball spam. Then if you win I predict either another neutral like FD or RC, even Norfair. Then when you lose cp Japes, and cargo all the time. Aim to throw him to the left of the map, since its killzone is closer and the current is in your favor. Dont get greedy and try and just wait it out sometimes. The middle platform is your friend but can easily get rained on by fireballs. The trick to beating a Mario or even a Pikachu is to keep moving and dont rely on tilts. I kinda contradicted myself but you have to know when to camp and know when to attack blindly. Especially for Mario

itsthebigfoot · Mar 16, 2009

KoSa! said:
I have yet to find a Bowser or a Ike that is actually a good fight. I admit it is a stretch to me its more like 40:60. IC are a big problem for DK. I mean Down B does take care of nana, but I never go DK vs IC. lol, the dedede one should be lol, but I took in the ability to use tilts and somewhat land Bairs. And its never like the dedede gets a guaranteed 3 stock.

ic's are not that bad, space better, I rarely get grabbed by them, and if I do it's off some technical error (faired instead of rar bair, missed a punish)

KoSa! said:
An ike has to play a perfect space game or he lose a stock.

Samus' zair can be side stepped, or running shield. The bomb arent that hard to predict, and can be intercepted with a Bair or Fair. Her spike isnt good she has a spike, and anyone who has a spike gets an advantage on a offstage DK.

Why hasnt anyone complained about mario. I actually was going to make that 60:40

I did complain about mario

magikguy said:
no way u tilt to uair can do 60 damage. (mario)

DI better

mario isn't that hard, space well and learn where he wants you for gimps, then don't go there. DI better too.

KoSa! · Mar 16, 2009

Bigfoot I would love for you to see my bros mario in action. Its sooooo much harder. DI doesn't help in an Utilt trap. and his Uairs are very hard to escape out of. When its gimping time, he just stands on the edge and can fake you out with a jump then DJ and cape. Or fludd to force DK's upB and cape.

I have replays of me trying everything. I try to wait for him to use his cape and catch him with an aerial or something, but it doesnt work often.

Mario vs DK is a very hard matchup. He is far more difficult then Luigi

itsthebigfoot · Mar 16, 2009

maybe its because yoou're playing your brother, who knows what you're going to do, whereas you probably haven't played a good luigi.

DI does get you out of the utilt trap, DI sideways. also, if you just DI into the fludd, you literally just stay in place, it shouldn't force you to upb. the cape only gimps the upb, and the upb is only necessary if you don't di properly.

KoSa! · Mar 16, 2009

itsthebigfoot said:
maybe its because yoou're playing your brother, who knows what you're going to do, whereas you probably haven't played a good luigi.

DI does get you out of the utilt trap, DI sideways. also, if you just DI into the fludd, you literally just stay in place, it shouldn't force you to upb. the cape only gimps the upb, and the upb is only necessary if you don't di properly.

Yo my brother mains Mario, and my friend mains Luigi....

Bigfoot I see what your talking about, but you have to play his Mario. Even if you DI out you can catch other follow ups. I dont know how else to explain how annoying it is. When we get some more recent matches up then Ill show you what I got through daily.

KoSa!'s DK matchups

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