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Yoshi v. Falco

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: This is the thread for discussion on the Yoshi v. Falco matchup.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Ight, i have good falco experience, so heres how it goes imo:
Yoshi:
Throw eggs from the start, if falco tries to SHDL hes gonna get hit. Ignore lazer damage, falcos enjoy when you panic from lasers. Hes gonna jab grab you, so FF bair is the safest approach. Bair-> utilt-> pivot grab-> dthrow-> some kind of chase(many yoshis might not be firmiliar with dthrow chases so get used to them)=40+ damage. It almost always works, falco is by far the easiest character to **** out of dthrow, at higher percents use up throw, falco wont stand a chance. Dont take too many risks, play it safe when going for kills, dont be stupid, bait dairs or airdodges for uair kills.

Falco:
Jab grab ***** yoshi(and everyone else), cgs with get him till around 35% then we can nair out, but its shield grabbable. From a cg to spike, edge hog will usually be the best move, cuz then you can ledgedrop-> spike. Play extremely gay, dont get grabbed at all ever else you're screwed.

Falcos favor, less than i originally thought tho.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
the match is definatley a who grabs who first

Falco can chain us, we can chain falco

however, lazer spam kinda limits our options to an areial pounce or powershield walk....which the falco can abuse
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
We dont have a chaingrab on falco, but we do have amazing dthrow options, that do way more than a chaingrab would. We also have a real bthrow cg at low percents.
 

Bwett

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
791
Location
Dallas, TX (Land of the Killers)
Burnt, I wouldn't use Dthrow. Eventually they can get out of it due to percent. This is what I do against Falco from grab release since I am one of the ones that cannot CG falco (Keep in mind you have to be good at reading your opponent to do this):

Grab release
If they try to spot dodge, then run past and pivot grab or charge usmash to punish.
If they roll away, continue running and dash grab.
If they roll towards, standing grab, pivot grab, or charged fsmash.
If they jab, then wait a few frames before dash grabbing.

This racks up insane damage once you get used to it.
 

Metatitan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,576
Location
Six Feet Under
Burnt, I wouldn't use Dthrow. Eventually they can get out of it due to percent. This is what I do against Falco from grab release since I am one of the ones that cannot CG falco (Keep in mind you have to be good at reading your opponent to do this):

Grab release
If they try to spot dodge, then run past and pivot grab or charge usmash to punish.
If they roll away, continue running and dash grab.
If they roll towards, standing grab, pivot grab, or charged fsmash.
If they jab, then wait a few frames before dash grabbing.

This racks up insane damage once you get used to it.
yeah i saw those vids of u vs that falco, good **** bwett
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Burnt, I wouldn't use Dthrow. Eventually they can get out of it due to percent. This is what I do against Falco from grab release since I am one of the ones that cannot CG falco (Keep in mind you have to be good at reading your opponent to do this):

Grab release
If they try to spot dodge, then run past and pivot grab or charge usmash to punish.
If they roll away, continue running and dash grab.
If they roll towards, standing grab, pivot grab, or charged fsmash.
If they jab, then wait a few frames before dash grabbing.

This racks up insane damage once you get used to it.
Yes, dthrow starts to not work at higher percents, however, i also use grab release shinanigans, and dthrow will work very very well if you get good at it, but its good to mix both of them up because sometimes they might catch on to dthrow or grab release, so if you do the other, they wont know what to do. It works on most characters but falco gets ***** the hardest. Dthrow also does 4% more than grab release :)
 

Depster

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
2,260
Location
Walla Walla
Grab release CG to spike works. eggs should be spammed because then the falco always goes crazy with reflector, letting you grab again and try for a spike. Bair owns falco, too.

Falco's CG has nothing on us. You can either tie with his grab and give him more damage than he gave you or you actually hit him. CGing yoshi with falco is near impossible.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
^dude what are you talking about.
You obviously havent played good people who know...how to chaingrab. You say that both falco and D3 cant cg yoshi, when they just have to not be bad and be able to perform basic character techniques, like chaingrabbing.

Sorry for being harsh, I dislike ignorance. Falco can easily get 40+ damage from the chaingrab.
 

VSC.D-Torr

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
7,000
Location
Kissimmee, FL (Poinciana)
^dude what are you talking about.
You obviously havent played good people who know...how to chaingrab. You say that both falco and D3 cant cg yoshi, when they just have to not be bad and be able to perform basic character techniques, like chaingrabbing.

Sorry for being harsh, I dislike ignorance. Falco can easily get 40+ damage from the chaingrab.
I agree. I also used to think that, but as I matured, I realized that they will find different ways to do it.
 

Tidycats29

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
39
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El paso
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Ugh i hate this moronic match up

as it seems whenever i play one
whoever grabs first wins

i usually just pick smashville that way i can ledge spam eggs at a lazer happy falco


Either way
i haven't faced a top falco user yet

i've played good ones
but not top ones

But the only fact i know is
his aerials beat ours

well from what i've experienced atleast
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I play with nyjin, the 3rd best falco on the WC, and considering the other 2, SK92 and DEHF are probably the best in the US, hes very very good.
 

Poltergust

Smash Master
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Miami, Florida
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Poltergust
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So wait, Falco is not chain-grabbable anymore? =(

Well, in any case, there are a couple of things that may work well against Falco:

1. Gimp gimp gimp gimp gimp. Falco's recovery sucks. Take advantage of it. Throw eggs and force him to air-dodge past the level of the stage so that he HAS to use his up-B to recover, which you can simply d-air or edge-hog him. If you can't egg him, predict whether he'll land on the stage or on the edge and try to punish him.

2. Egg Lay off the ledge. Due to his fast-falling speed, this can easily KO him if you attempt to gimp him here, too. Don't rely on this, though. It may get them once, but it's unlikely that you will trap him in this again if he is any good.
 

YoshiIslander77z

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
134
Location
massachusettes
i agree with burntsocks comment about the down throw over grab release just cause ull have only a second to figure out everything where d throw puts yoshi into a better postion as if he comes down with a dair, shield grab (im pretty sure u can shield grab it), bair spot dodge punish with favorable move, air dodge pivo grab, phantasm erm... u kinda have to guess. but on the grab release he'll be on the ground while u approach him if he can also phantasm or lazer to stop ur approach.
 

bigman40

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
3,859
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Just another day.
Falco is a tough matchup. I've been through hell and some more looking at what Yoshi can do to keep up in this match. I'll let you know right now, don't try the Fair spike after the grab release. He can easily avoid it, and footstool you while you're trying to recover.

Egg lay is a really valuable move throughout this fight. It's excellent when you need to reset the playing field and tack on 7% at least. Make sure that you constantly keep out of range cause dash attack has good priority and a DACUS is beastly when pulled off when we're not ready.

Utilize the versatility of SH egging. I've been messing around with it lately, and being able to place an egg either on top of them, or just behind them is quite useful (especially when the reflector won't be able to stop it at the angle).

Lastly, make sure you know what can combo into what. I've started working on a list of what Yoshi can actually combo into, and if you keep the numbers and moves in mind, you'll probably be able to get either some good damage off (most I've gotten was about 30%+ in an ACTUAL COMBO) or possibly kill them.
 

MX778

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
436
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I have Falco experience. I have played Ryzen Xia who has the best Falco in the Mid-West.

When offstage, I'd only recommend spiking him when he does the Fire Bird, if you use F-air on him while he's doing the Falco Phantasm(at a high percentage) you're pretty much screwed unless you time it perfectly.

When it comes to spiking him, you have to know when he's either going to use Fire Bird or Phantasm.
 

~Firefly~

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
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Going all-in with the grime
Sorry for the bump, but I think I find this match-up more annoying than I should, and I could use some pointers. Specifically, what would be the best way to approach the campy Falco? I typically resort to SHADing to try and get through lazers, but I don't have a very good idea of what to do besides that. It seems like he shouldn't get hit by me if he Phantasms properly, but I must me missing something. I usually try to throw out an Nair or something to hit him out of it, and sometimes I can break his rhythm and start pounding on him, but it feels like there isn't much I can do unless he makes a mistake.

:005:
 

Delta-cod

Smash Hero
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Don't worry guys, I beat a legendary Falco at the tourny last Saturday. (Bleachigo <3)

Fire, I usually end up jumping around the lasers unti lI get about mid range. You can Dash grab him if he jumps to do a SHDL, then end it with a CG and maybe spike depending on spacing. It's definitely easy to pound on Falco when you get near him. Even if he tries to run away you can just keep up with him.

You can egg them while they're SHDLing. Just throw the egg so it hits them as they're firing the first laser. Funny stuff. XD
 

Airborne

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
1,411
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YO MARVEL Lexington, Kentucky
:yoshi: Don't ever apologize for bumping a thread as long as you either have...

...something significant to contribute or a legitimate question.
sounds like a legitimate question to me...

but yeah, if the falco hasn't perfected their silent laser, they can still hit you crawling with standing lasers... and since yoshi doesn't have a legitimate shield for this kind of situation, it gets really annoying...
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: I didn't mean to say that it wasn't legitimate.

I was just saying that he shouldn't apologize.

So yeah, about Falco.

PRiDE was putting in a lot of work on beating out Side+B with downsmash. It looked like it was working well for him for the most part.
 

~Firefly~

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Going all-in with the grime
...So what happens if I apologize for apologizing?

Anyway, crawling would be amazing if it worked, but it doesn't, so we're stuck going through the lazers. Dsmash sounds interesting, especially because of the launch angle and the fact that it's Falco, but it would be very tricky to pull off without practice, especially if you try approaching from the air. Dash grab sounds pretty cool, but also really punishable if they predict it, and the start-up for eggs screams to be lazered. That's probably mostly my fault for having bad timing though. All the options here are risky, it seems, but at least we have multiple options.


:005:
 

Delta-cod

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...So what happens if I apologize for apologizing?

Anyway, crawling would be amazing if it worked, but it doesn't, so we're stuck going through the lazers. Dsmash sounds interesting, especially because of the launch angle and the fact that it's Falco, but it would be very tricky to pull off without practice, especially if you try approaching from the air. Dash grab sounds pretty cool, but also really punishable if they predict it, and the start-up for eggs screams to be lazered. That's probably mostly my fault for having bad timing though. All the options here are risky, it seems, but at least we have multiple options.


:005:
I'm just going off different situations.

Eggs: You're meant to eat a laser that does 3%-ish for a 9% egg trade off with more stun. It's not too reliable, but it's pretty fun to do.

Dash Grab: I usually use it when they're landing if I'm hanging around close-mid range. They can fall right into it, and I'm pretty sure nothing else they do can stop it if you time it properly.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Don't worry guys, I beat a legendary Falco at the tourny last Saturday. (Bleachigo <3)

Fire, I usually end up jumping around the lasers unti lI get about mid range. You can Dash grab him if he jumps to do a SHDL, then end it with a CG and maybe spike depending on spacing. It's definitely easy to pound on Falco when you get near him. Even if he tries to run away you can just keep up with him.

You can egg them while they're SHDLing. Just throw the egg so it hits them as they're firing the first laser. Funny stuff. XD
Firstly:
You didnt beat anyone in tournament. :p

Secondly, your advice makes no sense. His jab outspeeds everything, ftilt outranges all of your tilts, grab is so easy to dodge if you have better reaction time than my grandmother (if they are on the ground).

You cannot egg them with they're SHDLing, maybe if theyve never played yoshi before you can hit them once but its quite easy to reflect.
I know you were prolly joking in some of it :p
Honestly the most important things are:
Dont worry about lasers, they suck and the little percents dont matter too much in this all or nothing matchup.

Do not get predictable when recovering from the cg to spike. DEHF 3 stocked me the first round of our set because he would follow me down and footstool me.

Patience, wait for your opening and get as much damage as you can. Yoshi combos can often do more damage than falco cgs if you can get good reads, so make sure you dont let him get back to neutral position. If he does, dont be too hasty.

Bair->utilt is your staple "falco is gonna die" combo starter. From there, uair beats down air, pivot grab will be his airdodge, you have lots of stuff to knock him around with.
Gimp him but figure out how yourself :p
 

Delta-cod

Smash Hero
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Firstly:
You didnt beat anyone in tournament. :p
I asked Bleachigo to play me since he didn't enter Singles and I won a couple, though I feel as though he wasn't being as gay as Falco could be. It was mostly a joke. Though he was mad surprised when I GR > Fair'd him to death. He was like "Yo is that legit?" :laugh:

Secondly, your advice makes no sense. His jab outspeeds everything, ftilt outranges all of your tilts, grab is so easy to dodge if you have better reaction time than my grandmother (if they are on the ground).
I was talking about when they're landing from a SHDL. Why would I dash grab in a neutral position? =P

You cannot egg them with they're SHDLing, maybe if theyve never played yoshi before you can hit them once but its quite easy to reflect.
No, you can if you hit them while they laser. It's not reliable but funny. :D

I know you were prolly joking in some of it :p
Just my interesting tidbits. =P

Honestly the most important things are:
Dont worry about lasers, they suck and the little percents dont matter too much in this all or nothing matchup.
Yep.

Do not get predictable when recovering from the cg to spike. DEHF 3 stocked me the first round of our set because he would follow me down and footstool me.
I prefer to just not get grabbed, or, if I do, I'm grabbed so that I get CG'd to the center and not the edge. <3

Patience, wait for your opening and get as much damage as you can. Yoshi combos can often do more damage than falco cgs if you can get good reads, so make sure you dont let him get back to neutral position. If he does, dont be too hasty.

Bair->utilt is your staple "falco is gonna die" combo starter. From there, uair beats down air, pivot grab will be his airdodge, you have lots of stuff to knock him around with.
Gimp him but figure out how yourself :p
Bair > utilt is my everything starter. <3

Pivot Grab beats like, everything Falco can do when falling, lol. Except maybe for reflector.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
You cant not get grabbed, i mean you can, but you are very likely going to be grabbed once a game.

Idc, i almost beat m2k in friendlies, he would ***** me in tourny im sure.
The dash grab from SHDL works sometimes, usually if they are being not smart with their SHDL.
 
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