Reverse Engineering WFC

Buey · Mar 18, 2009

So, has anyone thought of Wiresharking the WFC, reverse engineering the protocol, and writing an emulator and a real interactive friend finder/ranking system to expand on the friend finding and bypass all the horrible connectivity problems that we've been having? I doubt that Nintendo will eventually deal with this in a way that is sufficient. Any patch that they'd release for Brawl would probably be enormous...and the Wii only has 512 MB flash...

A P2P DHT would work pretty well for this. Have each user set up a dedicated wireless channel using a secondary NIC and have the computer masquerade as the Nintendo server, or have the user set up a fake DNS server on their PC that catches requests going to the Nintendo WFC service (if the Wii connects by hostname, I haven't looked into it yet).

The project could logically be split into three parts:

PHP matchmaking server that exposes an RPC interface for the GUI clients. Also functions as the DHT central index.

A GUI for the user's PC, where they can sign on to the service, view connectivity with their Wii, browse rankings/etc. Flex/AIR would be a good platform for this.

The WFC emulator daemon, which communicates directly with both the Wii and the GUI. Written in Java? Or something else portable.

Would anybody be interested in starting or joining a project for this? If you are, reply with which part you'd like to help with. I'd probably only try to get into this if there's a fair amount of interest.

I originally posted in the Brawl Online forum, but this seems like a better place to find coders.

goodoldganon · Mar 18, 2009

This is a heroic undertaking and I wish you the best of luck.

GHNeko · Mar 18, 2009

goodoldganon said:
This is a heroic undertaking and I wish you the best of luck.

I think he is throwing out suggestions and ideas to get someone with the ability to be influenced into undertaking the project of the smash century.

Any takers?

PanzerOceania · Mar 18, 2009

Buey, do you have any experience with this sort of thing? I believe that if you spearheaded the project, and showed you were serious, people WOULD join with you, I would right now sadly, I have a very limited knowledge of online protocol systems and networking, best of luck and if I ever get the knowhow I'll drop you a line.

GOOD LUCK!

Shadic · Mar 18, 2009

I totally support you making this.

Buey · Mar 18, 2009

I haven't really done this type of reverse engineering work myself, but I do know how to go about doing it. The other two parts, I have experience in. I would work on this myself (probably spearheading it), but I want to see if others would want to get involved, what the skill distribution is, etc.

zamz · Mar 18, 2009

I'm sure more people would be willing to join you if they knew your background. What experience do you have?

shadowtroop · Mar 18, 2009

You should try redirecting the server finder to something else.

Dark 3nergy · Mar 18, 2009

I also support this, but i dont have very much to go on in the way of coding. I helped a programmer buddy of mine program a LUA AI before. Thats pretty much the extent to my knowledge.

There are some good programmers floating around here, so give this thread some time to gather attention.

bobson · Mar 18, 2009

I'm not sure how much real support you'll get around here, as those with both the skills to help and the ambition to care are stretched fairly thin. You'll get a lot of "I can't help, but I support you!"s and "Well I can make a calculator in DOS if you need one"s and you'll never be at a loss for beta testers, but you'd probably be better off looking around a coding forum or the like if you need developers.

Could be wrong, though. Smashboards has shown uncanny talent in the past.

☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆ · Mar 18, 2009

what if u made something like the phantasy star online hack? so it would let you do online on EVERYTHING in brawl and other games even? i think this would be FAR more effective

Bakuryu · Mar 18, 2009

bobson said:
I'm not sure how much real support you'll get around here, as those with both the skills to help and the ambition to care are stretched fairly thin. You'll get a lot of "I can't help, but I support you!"s and "Well I can make a calculator in DOS if you need one"s and you'll never be at a loss for beta testers, but you'd probably be better off looking around a coding forum or the like if you need developers.

Could be wrong, though. Smashboards has shown uncanny talent in the past.

What bobson its completely true aside from the hackers already hard at work making codes for brawl+ I doubt much help can be found here, everyone supports they idea here. A programming site would be your best bet for recruiting though so if any of them are Smash fans XD

ShortFuse · Mar 18, 2009

You're overcomplicating. Just Spoof the WFC server. You don't need to modify the game for anything. The only thing the console saves are the friend codes. Everything else is server sided. The names, the icon, the text, the IPs, they're all given by the server

If you can successfully figure what packets are sent, you can spoof it via a DNS redirection. I was looking into this when I wrote my Online Play Thread a few months back
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=150768

They use GameSpy servers. I don't think they use straight IPs but DNS's. Use a Man in the Middle attack to read what's going on. Then you can control what's information is sent back to the clients.

cAm8ooo · Mar 18, 2009

Shortfuse. I dont understand what in the **** your saying but you make it sound very possible.

Xane · Mar 18, 2009

GameSpy and XML, they're actually sending more stuff than needed.

Buey · Mar 18, 2009

ShortFuse said:
You're overcomplicating. Just Spoof the WFC server. You don't need to modify the game for anything. The only thing the console saves are the friend codes. Everything else is server sided. The names, the icon, the text, the IPs, they're all given by the server

If you can successfully figure what packets are sent, you can spoof it via a DNS redirection. I was looking into this when I wrote my Online Play Thread a few months back
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=150768

They use GameSpy servers. I don't think they use straight IPs but DNS's. Use a Man in the Middle attack to read what's going on. Then you can control what's information is sent back to the clients.

Yeah, that was the idea, the rest of the stuff I put down was for fleshing out the capabilities of the system (since people would love rankings, etc.) Nice starting point, since they use DNS resolution, DNS redirection should work fine, as long as people can access their router configs. Also, the DHT P2P system might be required, 'cuz if GameSpy's servers can't handle the load, I don't think any server that we could deploy would handle the load either. Some sort of P2P overlay may need to come into play.

I put all that other stuff down because it's largely independent of the network part. If people are skilled in PHP, or in Flash/Flex, they can help out without having to know anything about the other parts.

I will start looking into this once I'm done with my term papers.

Darth Waffles · Mar 18, 2009

cAm8ooo said:
Shortfuse. I dont understand what in the **** your saying but you make it sound very possible.

heh, true enough =P

Deleted member · Mar 18, 2009

Told ya' you'd get more attention here.

Buey · Mar 18, 2009

tnemrot said:
Told ya' you'd get more attention here.

Didn't even know about Smash Workshop till you told me, since it's not in the main boards list.

Lawlb0t · Mar 18, 2009

Helping people access their router configs wouldn't be hard. I doubt the majority people are on a shared network at a small apartment, even then they can talk to the admin/landlord. As long as you can sync it well like GGPO or Xlinkkai so we can play people from greater distances/greater ping.

I wouldn't be of use to you though because I never payed attention in programming class .__.

AltF4 · Mar 18, 2009

Hey, I just saw this thread in this room.

I'm really busy with my own school stuff, but it might be fun to reverse Nintendo's file formats or network protocols. We know they send "button press info", but the exact format is going to be necessary for a program like this.

Also, Buey and ShortFuse, I sent you guys a group membership invite.

Buey · Mar 22, 2009

Alright, now that I'm done with papers, this can start up...

illinialex24 · Mar 22, 2009

This could be amazing, best of luck.

Gravyguy101 · Mar 22, 2009

Honestly if we can do this, we can keep our systems from being detecting from Nintendo, and we can get a better online system. Thus keeping making a better online experience. With no Banning.

I'm in a high level networking class now. And my professor has significant experience with networking. So if you need some help let me know what you need to get done and I can ask him if I am unable to figure it out.

shadowtroop · Mar 22, 2009

If we can do this, error code 20102 will die right?

Xaej · Mar 22, 2009

I think a p2p overlay is going to be the way to go.

If Gamespy's servers cannot adequately handle the load of Brawl, I highly doubt we're going to find one that can.

On a very basic level, a decent starting point might be just checking pings from one wii to another, to see if p2p is even possible. If it is, you smarter networky people might go from there

Buey · Mar 22, 2009

So, first order of things...somebody create a godly name for this project.

illinialex24 · Mar 22, 2009

shadowtroop said:
If we can do this, error code 20102 will die right?

Yes it will.

GHNeko · Mar 22, 2009

Buey said:
So, first order of things...somebody create a godly name for this project.

Wifi Plus ie Wifi+

KAT0N · Mar 22, 2009

I don't know if you are familiar with GGPO, its an arcade emulator with nearly no lag. If a build on this was possible that would be outstanding.

Ryusuta · Mar 22, 2009

To quote my friend Alucard: "I'm interested in this."

shadowtroop · Mar 22, 2009

Wi-Fi+, you know, akin to Brawl Plus? Just not only for B+.

Problem2 · Mar 22, 2009

This poject may become very important if the news about Nintendo banning HBC users from WFC is true.

Gravyguy101 · Mar 24, 2009

Well I'm going to look into this regardless, I'll start by capturing some packets I guess

ratts · Mar 24, 2009

Super Smash Online

ACTIVATE.

Dark Sonic · Mar 24, 2009

"Lag begone!"

I think it's a pretty catchy name for the finished product.

randomguy1: Hey smashboards, is there any way to reduce lag on online play?
smashboards: Sure, just use Lag Begone.

lol

☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆ · Mar 24, 2009

Problem2 said:
This poject may become very important if the news about Nintendo banning HBC users from WFC is true.

its true... when nintendo unbans players for hbc they are only going to continue to ban NONwith-friends hackers :/ idk y they dont just start that way tho

also, how would they change the server the information is being sent to? idk ALOT about networking things but i just need to know these 3 things and i might be able to help with this.

1. hows the server system at gamespy work? do they have a wii recieving and sending data on their end or is it a comp or other thing?

2. would direct connection from 2-4 wiis be possible?

3. where would we "reverse engineer" the data to be sent to? and is it faster/free-er than gamespy?

Buey · Mar 24, 2009

Gravyguy101 said:
Well I'm going to look into this regardless, I'll start by capturing some packets I guess

If you can do this successfully, let me know...I don't have any machines running Linux natively and most of the wireless cards my computers have are crappy and don't have monitor mode support.

Shadic · Mar 24, 2009

gangstakirby said:
3. where would we "reverse engineer" the data to be sent to? and is it faster/free-er than gamespy?

You do your best to emulate what Nintendo does, but most likely just have it be Player-to-player.

The less interference between two people, the less lag you'll get.

Gravyguy101 · Mar 24, 2009

well I have a Linux box, but I either need to grab another ethernet card, or a hub in order to Wireshark the data I think. I'm gonna see what the computing center has lying around

Reverse Engineering WFC

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