Matchups Chart & Lists - Updated: 29/Oct

1. MATCHUPS CHART

This chart shows the ratios that every character's board has agreed about the rest of the cast. 50 means neutral match-up, while 100 total advantage, 0 total disadvantage.

How to read the chart: Each column of each character shows what the other boards say about that character; each row shows what a specific character's board says about the rest of the cast. For example: If you want to know what Bowser's board says about Ice Climbers, go Bowser's row, Ice Climbers' column. It shows a 25. That means Bowser's board says its a 25:75 disadvantage for Bowser. Now, if you want to know what Ice Climbers' Board says about Bowser, go to Ice Climbers' row, Bowser's column. It shows an 80, so Ice Climbers's board says its an 80:20 advantage for Ice Climbers. (As you see, there is a small difference in what each board is saying)



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2. MATCHUPS TIER LIST

This is a Tier List based only on matchups. It gives more importance to important matchups (against higher tiers). First number is the ponderated ratio on what that character says about the rest; second number is the ponderated ratio on what the other boards say about that specific character; last is the ponderated average ratio of both, and what finally determines this Tier List.
The ponderators i used are a mix between the results of the Ranking List and the new Tier List 3.0; they are changing as any matchup ratio changes. They are hard to explain how i got them; maybe i'll explain something in the future
Important: For every character, if he/she has a ratio for Pokemon Trainer, then the ratios for Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard are ignored. If there is no ratio for PT but there are for the Pokemons, then the ratio taken for the calculations of the ranking is just the sum of the three divided by 3 (the average), and its treated as one character (like Pokemon Trainer)



(The 7th column is how much places the character moved from the last Machups Tier List)

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3. MATCHUPS TIER LIST (MK BANNED)

Same idea as above, but without including Meta Knight.



(The 7th column is how much places the character moved from the last List published)

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4. *NEW*: CAN I GET THE FILE FOR THIS? / HOW DO THE LISTS WORK?

[collapse=Open this Spoiler for more info:]4.1. Can I get the file which you use for this?

Sure, no problem; all this was done in Excel. If you want the file, you can download it from here: Link <- updated: Oct 29th

By changing the ratios in the tab "Match-up Chart", you alter the "Tier List" tab (which is the Matchups Tier List in this thread). By changing the ratios in the tab "Tier List 4", you alter the "Non-MK Tier List" tab (Matchups Tier List (MK Banned) in this thread). There are two charts because I'm lazy and I found it easier to just make another chart when the SWF Tier List changes.

4.2. How does each list work? Any formula?

The next is a copy-paste of what I explained to a guy who asked me a time ago how does it work:

hey, i just saw your tier list based on matchups... i wanna say that i am impressed with how you calculated it, and i wanna know how you did it! im trying to make the same type of tier list for another game, and i want to know if you used any tools that i may also be able to use. thanks!

Hi! Thanks for your words, it's been a hard work

I don't use anything special besides common excel, so i'll tell you the maths behind for the Tier List:

1) I calculate the average ratio for every character "i" (i = MetaKnight, Snake, etc.), like showed in the Ranking List; let's call that average ratio Ri

2) I put that ratio Ri in the next formula:
Ti = [ 1/(100-Ri) - 1/100 ]^N
Where N is a factor i'll explain later, and Ti is a measure i picked of my own for seeing how important a matchup against the character "i" would be.

So, for example if Ri = 0, or near 0 (a character that has an average ratio of almost 0 against the others... no chance to win ever), you'll have Ti = 0 or near 0, for any N. That reflects that a matchup against that character doesn't matter at all
Now, if Ri = 100, or near 100 (a character that wins every matchup for sure always), you'll have Ti = infinite (for any N). That means the matchup against such a character is all that matters

3) Ok, next step is to build the right ponderators, for that, sum all the Ti's and let's call that sum T. Then, the ponderator Pi for every character is:
Pi = Ti/T
A note about T: In an ideal world, T would be the sum of all the Ti's as i said before, but, for every character, T changes, because it deppends if you have or not the ratios for every character. For example, if MetaKnight has not ratio against Pikachu, then T for MetaKnight would be the sum of all the Ti's except the one Ti that is for Pikachu. Remember to don't take into account the matchups for which there is not ratio

4) Choose a non negative N (the N from the formula in part 2). N is like a measure of how balanced is the game. If N=0, all the ponderators will be the same and you'll get the Ranking list instead of the Tier list; Now in the opposite, if N is big, the matchups against characters with higher average ratios Ri will matter more (and matchups against characters with low Ri will matter less). If you pick N near infinite, the matchup against the character with the highest Ri (MetaKnight for example) will be the only one that matters, independent the value of Ri (it doesn't need to be near 100 if you pick a huge N)
If you want to know... i picked N = 4 (***) but i suggest you to play around with this value, it can change your Tier List dramatically

5) Now you are almost ready! Last step is to calculate the ponderated ratio and build the Tier List. Let's see an example:

If Metaknight has a matchup ratio of 60 against Pikachu, 50 against Snake and 70 Ganondorf (and no more ratios), his ponderated ratio would be:

Ppikachu*60 + Psnake*50 + Pganondorf*70 + Pmetaknight*50

(Don't forget to include the mirror matchup with ratio 50)

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Well, i hope you could understand something; don't hesitate to ask any doubt Good Luck with your Tier List!

(***): Recently i changed this value into the standard desviation of the average ratios of the whole roster. That's why the list changed a lot this time[/collapse]

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5. IMPORTANT INFORMATION

THREADS USED AND HOW TO CHANGE THEM: Im using the listed threads below for every character's ratios (the first post of each thread). If a new or updated thread arise, please let me know by putting the link to that thread so i can change the link and update the ratios. If you notice any mistake, please let me know. Also, some characters have two or more threads; the first one has the priority to fill ratios, the others will just help me to fill empty squares. If you want to change priority between them, or add/erase "back-up" threads please let me know.

HOW TO UPDATE THIS CHART: If you have new match-up ratios for some characters, i'll gladly update them as soon as the official threads i've listed of the characters involved are updated too. This is based on official information of each community rather than someone's personal oppinion. That's why its important that, in order to update this chart, previously the character's threads im using should be updated. Finally, remember that if you want to change something (with official info as back-up, as just said), you are speaking for an entire community... if people from a same community begin to ask for different things, i'll take the final decision on what to do until there is no disagreement.

Threads used for each character: (The number after the link is when was the last update of that thread's first post , in the form dd-month-yyyy)

Bowser: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211975 (15-Oct-2010)
Captain Falcon: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=280030 (16-Sep-2010)
Charizard: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5117869 (16-Jan-2010)
Diddy Kong: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237408 (26-Mar-2010)
Donkey Kong: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283508 (22-Aug-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273168 (16-Jul-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=261789 (03-Feb-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235788 (26-Dec-2009)
Falco: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=259481 (26-Oct-2010)
Fox: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232907 (26-Sep-2010)
Game & Watch: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=274320 (30-Jun-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174763 (30-Mar-2010)
Ganondorf: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=279618 (07-Oct-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202473 (29-Sep-2009)
Ice Climbers: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242786 (30-Oct-2009)
Ike: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271374 (23-Sep-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238648 (28-Dec-2009)
Ivysaur: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5117869 (16-Jan-2010)
Jigglypuff: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233873 (13-Aug-2010)
King Dedede: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192600 (15-Mar-2010)
Kirby: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=268901 (12-Oct-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236395, post #3 (11-Nov-2009)
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231077 (22-Oct-2010)
Lucario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221578 (17-Oct-2010)
Lucas: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246877 (01-Oct-2010)
Luigi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250455 (05-May-2010)
Mario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=268539 (18-Oct-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256410 (02-Apr-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227291 (11-Feb-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212008 (01-Feb-2010)
Marth: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=272693 (09-Jun-2010)
Meta Knight: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=279647 (30-Oct-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463 (24-May-2010)
Ness: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188116 (10-May-2010)
Olimar: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243541 (17-Oct-2010)
Peach: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193 (13-Jul-2010)
Pikachu: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=254597 (11-Sep-2010)
Pit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197115 (18-Sep-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242314 (15-May-2010)
Pokémon Trainer: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5117869 (16-Jan-2010)
R.O.B.: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271182 (16-Sep-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=252391 (15-Jul-2010)
Samus: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222783 (31-Jul-2010)
Sheik: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226389 (06-Dec-2009)
Snake: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260102 (19-Sep-2010)
Sonic: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510 (21-Oct-2010)
Squirtle: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5117869 (16-Jan-2010)
Toon Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=279687 (22-Oct-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182155 (19-Apr-2010)
Wario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=249340 (15-Oct-2010)
Wolf: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237768 (14-Aug-2010)
Yoshi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221496 (03-Mar-2010)
Zelda: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267986 (05-Aug-2010)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240002 (07-Mar-2010)
Zero Suit Samus: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203418 (31-Aug-2010)

Some info maybe outdated; also, despite how similar this may look to other thread i saw, i only copied the idea of putting the link to each character's thread.
Help me update the chart by letting me know when the threads are updated with new ratios!

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6. UPDATES LOG (LAST 20)

Important Note: I'm taking into account infinites allowed.
09-Aug-2009: Donkey Kong 40 Diddy Kong, 55 Kirby; Ganondorf 0 Olimar, 10 Snake, 20 King Dedede, 45 Captain Falcon; Jigglypuff 40 R.O.B.; Olimar 35 Meta Knight, 40 Marth, Peach, 45 Mr. Game & Watch, Sheik, 60 Sonic, and new thread; Snake has new thread, with lots of ratios updated ( averages taken ); Zelda 30 Olimar
18-Aug-2009: Diddy Kong 40 Luigi, 45 Kirby; Donkey Kong 45 Diddy Kong, Wario, 55 Luigi; King Dedede 35 Ice Climbers, Olimar, 45 Kirby, 50 Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, 55 Snake, Zelda; Lucario 65 Sonic; Mario 45 Luigi; Meta Knight 65 Bowser; Sheik 45 Peach; Toon Link 50 King Dedede, 60 Luigi, 65 Zelda
23-Aug-2009: Fox 45 Meta Knight, Snake, and new thread; Ice Climbers 40 Zelda, 60 Olimar, 70 Sheik, and new thread; Kirby 60 Ganondorf; Lucario 50 Toon Link, 55 Pit; Snake's ratios changed to General Consensus ratios instead of averages; Wario 55 Diddy Kong, 58 Falco, 80 Sonic, and changed priority of threads
03-Sep-2009: Donkey Kong 38 Falco, 50 Snake; Mr. Game & Watch 40 Toon Link, 55 Falco, King Dedede; Ice Climbers 45 Diddy Kong; Link 30 Falco, Meta Knight, and priority of threads changed; Lucario 50 Fox, 60 Sheik; Lucas 43 Falco, and new thread; Mario 45 Lucario, 50 Charizard, Luigi, Squirtle, Toon Link, 55 Bowser, Jigglypuff, 60 Ivysaur; Meta Knight 70 Bowser; Olimar 50 Ness; Samus 40 Kirby, Snake, 45 Pit, 50 R.O.B.; Toon Link 50 Wario; Wario 70 Wolf
12-Sep-2009: Donkey Kong 10 King Dedede, 45 Pit; Falco 30 Ice Climbers, 35 Pikachu, 40 Kirby, 45 Snake, 50 Sheik, Zelda, 55 Fox, Mario, 60 Bowser, Jigglypuff, Lucas, Ness, Pokémon Trainer, Sonic, 65 Samus, 95 Ganondorf; Fox 40 Diddy Kong; Ice Climbers 40 Meta Knight, Wario, 45 Marth, Zelda; Ike 45 Pit; Kirby 45 Pikachu, 50 Diddy Kong, 60 Link; Lucas 40 Meta Knight; Luigi's backup thread erased (and the respective ratios) because it was older than a year; Mario 50 Pit; Peach 45 Mr. Game & Watch, 50 Falco, R.O.B., 55 Mario, Squirtle, Yoshi, 60 Ness; Toon Link 55 Mr. Game & Watch
18-Sep-2009: Ice Climbers 55 Marth; Link 25 Falco, 35 Kirby, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, 40 Peach, Pit, 45 Ice Climbers, priority of threads changed; Lucario 55 Charizard, Pokémon Trainer, Squirtle, 65 Ivysaur; Lucas 35 Snake; Mario 45 Peach; Meta Knight 55 Ice Climbers; Toon Link 45 Olimar, 55 Kirby, Pikachu; Zero Suit Samus 50 Lucario, 60 Pokémon Trainer, 70 Ivysaur
05-Oct-2009: Donkey Kong 45 Falco, 60 Sonic; Falco 75 Link, 80 Captain Falcon; Ganondorf 25 Fox, 35 Kirby; Kirby 50 Sheik, 60 Yoshi; Link 30 Falco, 40 Pikachu, and threads priority changed; Lucario 60 Bowser, Samus; Lucas 35 Mr. Game & Watch; Luigi new thread; Mario 50 Lucas, 55 Ness; Samus 35 Zero Suit Samus, and backup thread erased (and the respective ratios); Toon Link 50 Diddy Kong; Wario 50 Falco, 55 Kirby, R.O.B., 58 Ice Climbers, 60 Diddy Kong, one backup thread erased, and new thread; Wolf 35 King Dedede; Zelda 45 Pikachu, 55 Ice Climbers
20-Oct-2009: Bowser 55 Sonic; Diddy Kong 45 Luigi, Marth, Snake, 50 King Dedede; Donkey Kong 40 Wario, 50 Olimar, Toon Link; Fox 40 Meta Knight; Ganondorf 0 Sheik, 5 Falco, Snake, 10 Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Meta Knight, 15 Marth, Samus, 25 Peach, 30 Luigi, 35 Bowser, Donkey Kong, Ike, 40 Captain Falcon; King Dedede 40 Meta Knight, 55 Peach, 60 Jigglypuff, 65 Ivysaur, Wolf, 75 Ganondorf, 95 Samus; Kirby 55 Fox; Lucario 60 Ike, Jigglypuff, Lucas, Mario, 65 Captain Falcon, Yoshi, 70 Ganondorf, and backup thread erased; Lucas 40 King Dedede, 45 Lucario; Luigi 45 Wario; Mario 55 Zelda, 60 Link; Pit 55 Donkey Kong, and new thread; Wario 55 Lucario, Zero Suit Samus; Wolf 40 Falco, 50 Mr. Game & Watch; Zero Suit Samus 50 Donkey Kong, 60 Kirby, and last thread erased (and the respective ratios; the thread was older than a year)
02-Nov-2009: Bowser 40 Olimar; Captain Falcon 40 Zero Suit Samus, and new thread; Ike 40 Pikachu; Kirby 30 Ice Climbers, 45 King Dedede; Lucas 30 Snake; Mario 48 Wolf, 50 Fox; R.O.B. 35 Meta Knight, 40 Mr. Game & Watch, Zero Suit Samus, 50 Fox, Mario, Olimar, Peach, Squirtle, Toon Link, 55 Charizard, Donkey Kong, Ice Climbers, Lucario, Lucas, Pokémon Trainer, Wolf, Zelda, 60 Ike, Link, Luigi, 65 Ivysaur, 70 Ganondorf, new thread, and last two threads erased; Toon Link 35 Meta Knight, 50 Fox; Wolf 40 Pikachu
14-Nov-2009: Diddy Kong's last thread erased (and its ratios), the info there is older than a year; Jigglypuff's last thread erased (and its ratios), it wasn't an open matchup thread (personal guide); Lucas 48 Pikachu; Mario 60 Yoshi; Peach 50 Yoshi; Pikachu 43 Meta Knight, 45 Wario, 56 Falco, 42 Diddy Kong, 59 King Dedede, 37 Marth, 41 Mr. Game & Watch, 42 Olimar, 46 Ice Climbers, 46 R.O.B., 52 Kirby, 44 Lucario, 53 Zero Suit Samus, 48 Toon Link, 50 Pit, 57 Donkey Kong, 47 Peach, 47 Luigi, 68 Fox, 58 Wolf, 57 Sonic, 66 Sheik, 60 Bowser, 55 Zelda, 58 Pokémon Trainer, 51 Squirtle, 60 Charizard, 57 Ike, 52 Mario, 48 Ness, 54 Yoshi, 59 Samus, 58 Jigglypuff, 62 Link, 67 Ganondorf; Wario's last two threads erased (and their ratios), they weren't open matchup threads (personal guides); Wolf 45 Ice Climbers, 55 Olimar
30-Nov-2009: Diddy Kong 50 Pit, 55 Pikachu; Ike 45 Diddy Kong; Link 45 Samus; Lucas 38 Wario; Luigi 30 Marth; Mario 60 Captain Falcon, 65 Ganondorf; Peach 55 Yoshi, 60 Wario; Sheik 55 Zero Suit Samus; Wario 40 Meta Knight, 55 Snake, Toon Link; Wolf 45 R.O.B.
18-Dec-2009: Captain Falcon 35 Snake; Link 30 Sheik, 40 Mr. Game & Watch, Zelda, 50 Lucas; Lucas 40 Wario, 45 Falco, R.O.B., 50 Olimar, Pikachu; Sheik 40 Luigi; Zelda 25 Olimar, 40 Pit, 45 R.O.B., Sonic, 50 Ice Climbers
06-Jan-2010: Falco 40 Squirtle, 60 Charizard, 70 Ike, Ivysaur, new thread and previous thead erased; Lucas 40 Mr. Game & Watch, Snake, 45 Ice Climbers, 55 Zelda; Samus 35 Marth, 48 Donkey Kong, 65 Yoshi, 68 Ike; Sheik's last thread erased and its ratios (thread older than a year); Snake's last thread erased, and new thread; Toon Link 40 Snake; Wario 55 Falco, Pit, 65 Donkey Kong; Yoshi's thread erased and all its ratios (thread older than a year)
20-Jan-2010: Falco 50 Snake; Lucario 45 Snake; Lucas 30 Snake, 35 Meta Knight, 38 Wario, 40 R.O.B., 43 Falco, 48 Olimar, Pikachu; Mario 35 King Dedede, 40 Mr. Game & Watch, Snake, 43 Lucario, 45 Luigi, 60 Bowser, and new thread; Olimar 45 Ice Climbers, 50 Snake, Wolf, 55 R.O.B., Yoshi, 60 Bowser, Ike, King Dedede, Samus, 65 Jigglypuff, Link, 70 Zelda. New chart added: A Matchups Tier List in a MK-banned enviroment
11-Feb-2010: Bowser 40 Squirtle, 45 Yoshi, 55 Charizard, 60 Jigglypuff, 65 Ivysaur; Captain Falcon 40 Wario; Falco 45 Marth; King Dedede 40 Falco, Olimar, Pikachu, 50 Kirby, Snake, 55 Lucas, 60 Ivysaur, Yoshi, 65 Ike, 70 Captain Falcon, 80 Bowser, 90 Mario, Samus; Lucas 45 Zero Suit Samus; Mario 45 Toon Link, 60 Ness; New thread for Pikachu and last one erased; Wolf 55 Zero Suit Samus
03-Mar-2010: Bowser 55 Captain Falcon; Captain Falcon 25 Ice Climbers, 30 Pikachu, 35 Lucas, Sheik, Wolf, 40 Jigglypuff, Ness, Pit, Squirtle, Toon Link, 45 Pokémon Trainer, Yoshi, Zelda, 50 Charizard, Ivysaur, Link, and new thread (added as 2nd priority); Donkey Kong has new thread; Lucario 40 Snake; Mario 50 Luigi, 60 Ike; Snake 45 Olimar; Wario 45 Peach, 55 Luigi, 60 Fox, Sheik, Sonic, Wolf; Wolf 50 Toon Link; Yoshi 35 Lucario, Marth, Samus, Wolf, 40 Diddy Kong, Falco, Meta Knight, Mr. Game & Watch, Snake, Toon Link, 45 Donkey Kong, King Dedede, Ness, Pikachu, Pit, R.O.B., Zelda, 50 Fox, Ike, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Olimar, Peach, Sheik, Wario, Zero Suit Samus, 55 Ice Climbers, Lucas, Sonic, 60 Bowser, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Link, Pokémon Trainer, 65 Ganondorf; Zero Suit Samus 60 Toon Link. Chart arranged according to the new Tier List 4.0
08-Apr-2010: Bowser 50 Link, 60 Ganondorf; Captain Falcon 45 Bowser; Diddy Kong 50 Toon Link, 55 Ice Climbers; Fox 55 King Dedede, 60 Donkey Kong, Zero Suit Samus, and last thread removed along with its ratios (older than a year); Ike last thread removed along with its ratios (older than a year); Kirby 45 Snake, new thread, and last thread removed along with its ratios (older than a year); Lucario 45 Falco, Snake; Lucas 45 Fox, and last thread removed along with its ratios (older than a year); Peach 40 Meta Knight; Samus 60 Bowser; Wolf 45 Pit, 60 Donkey Kong; Zero Suit Samus 50 Sheik
28-May-2010: Captain Falcon 50 Ike, all threads erased (outdated) and its ratios, and new thread; Donkey Kong 45 Ice Climbers, 55 Marth, 40 Olimar, 60 Samus, 50 Zero Suit Samus, 50 Fox, 50 Wolf, 60 Zelda, 55 Sheik, 60 Ness, 65 Lucas, 55 Ike, 60 Yoshi, 60 Mario, 60 Captain Falcon, 70 Jigglypuff, 55 Link, 65 Ganondorf, new thread, and last thread erased (outdated); Fox 50 Falco, 55 R.O.B.; Ike 30 Meta Knight, 40 Diddy Kong, 35 Falco, 50 Ice Climbers, 45 Wario, 35 King Dedede, 45 Pikachu, 35 Olimar, 40 Lucario, 45 Mr. Game & Watch, 40 Toon Link, 40 Zero Suit Samus, 50 Kirby, 45 R.O.B., 50 Donkey Kong, 50 Peach, 45 Fox, 60 Luigi, 45 Wolf, 45 Sheik, 50 Pokémon Trainer, 50 Sonic, 55 Ness, 60 Bowser, 55 Lucas, 55 Yoshi, 50 Mario, 45 Samus, 55 Jigglypuff, 60 Link, 65 Ganondorf, and new thread; Lucas 30 King Dedede, 40 Peach, 63 Ganondorf; Marth 40 Meta Knight, 55 Snake, 55 Diddy Kong, 55 Falco, 50 Ice Climbers, 45 King Dedede, 65 Mr. Game & Watch, 60 Zero Suit Samus, 65 Luigi, 55 Wolf, 70 Pokémon Trainer, 65 Sonic, 65 Bowser, 70 Captain Falcon, 70 Zelda, 65 Link, new thread, and last one erased; Peach 40 Falco, 60 Ike, 60 Jigglypuff, 50 Kirby, 60 Olimar, 65 Sonic, 50 Wolf, 60 Yoshi, 65 Zelda; Pit 60 Donkey Kong, last thread erased (outdated) with its ratios, and change in priority of first two threads; R.O.B. 45 Snake, and new thread; Samus 65 Ike, 30 Olimar, 55 Zelda, 30 King Dedede, 50 Fox; Snake 50 Diddy Kong, 50 Falco, 50 Marth, 48 Meta Knight; Zero Suit Samus 60 Link, 50 Wolf, 50 Pit
21-Aug-2010: Bowser 35 Meta Knight; Captain Falcon 25 Ice Climbers, 50 Link, 30 Pikachu, 40 Lucario, and change in MU thread; Diddy Kong last thread erased and its ratios (Wolf, Yoshi - older than a year); Donkey Kong 50 Marth; Falco 60 Zelda, 58 Mario; Mr. Game & Watch 50 King Dedede, 45 Olimar, and new thread; Ganondorf 20 Meta Knight, 30 Snake, and new thread; Ice Climbers last thread erased and its ratios (R.O.B., Falco, King Dedede, Pikachu, Lucario, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Kirby, Mario, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf, Peach, Fox, Luigi, Wolf, Pokémon Trainer, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Sonic, Ness, Bowser, Lucas, Ike, Yoshi, Samus, Jigglypuff - older than a year); Ike 28 Meta Knight, 42 Snake, 42 Diddy Kong, 37 Falco, 49 Ice Climbers, 37 Marth, 46 Wario, 37 King Dedede, 47 Pikachu, 37 Olimar, 43 Lucario, 47 Mr. Game & Watch, 41 Toon Link, 47 Kirby, 49 Peach, 44 Fox, 58 Luigi, 44 Wolf, 44 Sheik, 54 Pokémon Trainer, 58 Squirtle, 61 Ivysaur, 51 Charizard, 48 Sonic, 53 Ness, 59 Bowser, 54 Lucas, 54 Yoshi, 51 Mario, 58 Captain Falcon, 43 Samus, 54 Jigglypuff, 64 Ganondorf, and last thread erased (older than a year); Jigglypuff 30 Meta Knight, 40 King Dedede, 25 Mr. Game & Watch, 50 Falco, 30 Marth, 35 Donkey Kong, 45 Pikachu, 40 Kirby, 40 Olimar, 35 Zero Suit Samus, 40 Bowser, 60 Ike, 40 Lucas, 45 Mario; Link 40 Toon Link, 40 Zero Suit Samus, 40 Donkey Kong, 35 Wolf, 45 Sonic, 50 Ness, 50 Jigglypuff; Lucario 41 Meta Knight, 41 Snake, 47 Diddy Kong, 46 Falco, 52 Ice Climbers, 42 Marth, 46 Wario, 39 King Dedede, 58 Pikachu, 43 Olimar, 51 Mr. Game & Watch, 53 Pit, 54 Toon Link, 54 Zero Suit Samus, 53 Kirby, 52 R.O.B., 49 Donkey Kong, 59 Peach, 48 Fox, 58 Luigi, 51 Wolf, 62 Sheik, 60 Pokémon Trainer, 56 Squirtle, 66 Ivysaur, 59 Charizard, 64 Sonic, 58 Ness, 59 Lucas, 62 Ike, 64 Yoshi, 61 Mario, 63 Captain Falcon, 64 Samus, 62 Jigglypuff, 67 Zelda, 66 Link, 73 Ganondorf; Lucas 40 King Dedede, 48 Bowser, 45 Yoshi, 55 Luigi; Luigi last thread erased and its ratios (Ness, R.O.B., Kirby, Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Mr. Game & Watch, King Dedede, Falco, Meta Knight, Diddy Kong - older than a year); Meta Knight new thread; Olimar last two threads erased and its ratios (Squirtle - older than a year); Peach 45 Marth, 35 Meta Knight; R.O.B. 60 Ice Climbers; Samus 60 Mario, 35 Diddy Kong, 50 Luigi; Snake last thread erased and its ratios (Wario, Lucario, Pit, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Donkey Kong, Peach, Fox, Luigi, Wolf, Sheik, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Sonic, Ness, Bowser, Lucas, Ike, Yoshi, Mario, Captain Falcon, Samus, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Link, Ganondorf - older than a year); Toon Link 48 Falco, 50 Olimar, 55 Pit, 50 Kirby, 55 Luigi, 60 Ness, and new thread; Wario 60 Bowser, 60 Zelda, 60 Pokémon Trainer, 60 Ike, 60 Lucas, 60 Mario, 60 Yoshi, 60 Ness, 60 Samus, 60 Jigglypuff, 60 Captain Falcon, 60 Link, 60 Ganondorf; Zelda 20 Meta Knight, 35 Falco, 40 R.O.B., 55 Yoshi, and new thread; Zero Suit Samus 70 Bowser, 60 Lucas, 60 Ike, 60 Luigi, 50 Peach, 50 Fox
29-Oct-2010: Captain Falcon 25 Meta Knight, 30 Falco, 30 Marth, 45 Wario, 40 King Dedede, 35 Mr. Game & Watch, 40 Toon Link, 45 Yoshi; Donkey Kong 20 King Dedede, and new thread; Falco 65 Zelda; Fox 50 Meta Knight; Ganondorf 25 Diddy Kong, 10 Falco, and last thread erased with its ratios (older than a year); Ike 30 Meta Knight, 44 Diddy Kong, 39 Falco, 38 Marth, 49 Mr. Game & Watch, 44 Toon Link, 41 Zero Suit Samus, 48 R.O.B., 57 Luigi, 45 Sheik, 59 Pokémon Trainer, 61 Squirtle, 52 Charizard, 55 Lucas, 55 Yoshi, 54 Mario, 42 Samus, 55 Jigglypuff, 65 Ganondorf; Link 40 Diddy Kong, 40 Ice Climbers, 40 Luigi, 40 Yoshi, 40 Mario, 50 Bowser, 50 Captain Falcon, and last thread erased (older than a year); Lucas 45 Bowser, 45 Wolf; Mario 35 Mr. Game & Watch, 45 Lucario, 55 Bowser, 55 Ike, 55 Ness, and new thread; R.O.B. last thread erased (older than a year); Wario 65 Bowser, 65 Pokémon Trainer, 65 Lucas, 55 Yoshi, 70 Jigglypuff, 65 Captain Falcon, 65 Link, 70 Ganondorf; Zelda last thread erased and its ratios (older than a year); Zero Suit Samus 60 Yoshi

Ike's thread is way too old and Not updated. (but most numbers are near the same)

Nice chart, but you should have used a wider variety of yellows. It's as if there's virtually no difference (there is, but it's rather small) from 35-60.

I like it too! However, a lot of the Luigi info is outdated (which is understandable because we can never get a REAL match-up thread together) but here are some things--

Luigi VS DK is strong adv Luigi. We are one of DK's 3 TERRIBLE matchups. (dedede and falco are I think the other two)
Luigi VS Metaknight is strong adv Metaknight. It's much worse than Dedede's, like 25 - 75.
Luigi VS Olimar is adv Luigi, Olimars are ALWAYS complaining about luigi
Peach VS Luigi is even. We JUST finished discussing the matchup a few days ago, so it should be pretty accurate.
Luigi VS ROB is adv ROB.
Luigi VS Snake is slight adv snake, or at least nowhere near as bad as MK and DDD
Recently, there's been talk that Luigi VS Zelda is more even. I don't know, though.

There's been on talk on the Lucas boards as well for his worst match-ups:

Lucas VS. Marth is 35-65 at worst, Marth's favor.
Lucas VS. Game & Watch is being looked over as those numbers are not that bad.
Lucas VS. Donkey Kong is not that bad either as it's 35-65 at worst.

Just took a quick glance for now. Ganon's match-ups seems excessively low, especially when compared to the other obviously one-sided match-ups that aren't noted as being as statistically lobesided. I'll just focus on the one that I know the best, the Sheik match-up. In my opinion it shouldn't be THAT much in Sheik's favor.

Love the layout, will be brilliant if constantly updated

R@vyn said:

Good layout, but its a bit hard to read it when its so small. You should probably make it bigger.

Click to expand...

I dont know why it showed so small, it deffinitely should be bigger... the question is: how do i make it bigger? it seems it will always fit the thread size no matter what i do...

ProBrawler said:

Just took a quick glance for now. Ganon's match-ups seems excessively low, especially when compared to the other obviously one-sided match-ups that aren't noted as being as statistically lobesided. I'll just focus on the one that I know the best, the Sheik match-up. In my opinion it shouldn't be THAT much in Sheik's favor.

Click to expand...

We of the Ganon boards disagree.

As for making it bigger, you could have the scale be 1-10 instead of 1-100 to save yourself a digit.

Instead of organizing it by the alphabet, do it by tier placement instead

cutter said:

Instead of organizing it by the alphabet, do it by tier placement instead

Click to expand...

That is the Ankoku list, right? (the one with the tournament results) I'll update all these things as soon as im back home. I want to give thanks to everyone for the feedback and the good receivement. Though i dont have many posts, i check smashboards all the time, so you can be sure i'll have the chart updated

very nice! larger would be better though

Rajam said:

That is the Ankoku list, right? (the one with the tournament results) I'll update all these things as soon as im back home. I want to give thanks to everyone for the feedback and the good receivement. Though i dont have many posts, i check smashboards all the time, so you can be sure i'll have the chart updated

Click to expand...

No. He means the SBR Official Tier List. It is stickied in General Brawl Discussion.

If you use Photobucket you have to make sure you change the settings to let you have big images or else it will shrink it...

Wow this is really useful. Especially when your looking for a good secondary that complements your main
Also, I assume the white squares mean that there wasnt any info. Im sure there are people who would be willing to help out with filling them up. At least I would.

So MK goes even with just DK and Falco....and has an advantage on everyone else. And you can't pick DK game 1 because D3 exists, so either use MK or Falco.

Overcentralize much?

Cool. I'm glad someone else has time to take on this project. Good luck.

just making the numbers in the boxes bigger would go a long way to making it more readable for blind people like me. There's a lot of empty space around the numbers as is.

Actually, I believe that Diddy goes even with MK as well as other Diddy mains on the boards(he isnt considered a counter against MK for nothing) Also I hear that many MK consider Diddy OR Snake as their hardest match up
Its definitely not just DK and Falco.

Wow, This makes it so much easier to read. Its just a little blurry but its still easier than the other one in the OP. Thanks a lot man

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_53oMB4-fxXM/SVZZdJntnPI/AAAAAAAAAAM/vXEtrdBFtqI/s1600-R/cookie.gif

here you go ic3r

I just love how the Diddy G&W matchup is 40:40. Jk, but a lot of the information in the chart is contradicting.

You should probably find an average in between what both of the boards decide if they conflict each other. Or, if one of the boards matchup discussion is much more recent then the other, you should just go with that one.

Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

lol the idea is to put both versions instead of the average; to show what each board says, compare, etc

IC3R: Thanks a lot for the resized image, though i'll see if i can put one with better resolution.... i'll take your image if i just can't find a way. Also i'll make the numbers bigger

Delvro said:

I like it too! However, a lot of the Luigi info is outdated (which is understandable because we can never get a REAL match-up thread together) but here are some things--

Luigi VS DK is strong adv Luigi. We are one of DK's 3 TERRIBLE matchups. (dedede and falco are I think the other two)
Luigi VS Metaknight is strong adv Metaknight. It's much worse than Dedede's, like 25 - 75.
Luigi VS Olimar is adv Luigi, Olimars are ALWAYS complaining about luigi
Peach VS Luigi is even. We JUST finished discussing the matchup a few days ago, so it should be pretty accurate.
Luigi VS ROB is adv ROB.
Luigi VS Snake is slight adv snake, or at least nowhere near as bad as MK and DDD
Recently, there's been talk that Luigi VS Zelda is more even. I don't know, though.

Click to expand...

Please, put the links to where are they discussing that

Irsic said:

There's been on talk on the Lucas boards as well for his worst match-ups:

Lucas VS. Marth is 35-65 at worst, Marth's favor.
Lucas VS. Game & Watch is being looked over as those numbers are not that bad.
Lucas VS. Donkey Kong is not that bad either as it's 35-65 at worst.

Click to expand...

Same as before, please put the links to where are they discussing that

cutter said:

Instead of organizing it by the alphabet, do it by tier placement instead

Click to expand...

Almost done, i'll upload it soon

lil_b said:

Change the Yoshi match up thread to Shiri's please the one you put is out dated and a lot of it is not full discussed and so on.

Click to expand...

._. That match-up topic is not putting the ratios

Bellioes said:

Wow this is really useful. Especially when your looking for a good secondary that complements your main
Also, I assume the white squares mean that there wasnt any info. Im sure there are people who would be willing to help out with filling them up. At least I would.

Click to expand...

Yes, white squares mean no info. And the idea is to update and fill these spaces, help would be very much appreciated

SSD said:

just making the numbers in the boxes bigger would go a long way to making it more readable for blind people like me. There's a lot of empty space around the numbers as is.

Click to expand...

Numbers made bigger

ExCeL 52 said:

I like the whole idea. I was thinking of doing this myself but I didn't have enough time.
Good luck on finishing it :D.

Can you make it any bigger?

Click to expand...

Bigger chart in the OP too

IC3R said:

Alrighty, I'm about to post a 1000x1000 version of the chart, so bear with me here~

You're more than welcome to simply Copy+Paste this onto the OP~
In that case, I'll simply delete this post afterwards~

Click to expand...

Again, thank you very much for the chart . Though i found the problem and i could resize the image to a bigger one with better resolution ._.

This is pretty sweet, I'm bookmarking this!
Keep up the good work!

I just cant wait until it gets complete...then we can update it like... over the summer?

Good. Now it's already updated for size and tier placement. Looks awesome now!
Is it possible to make a higher contrast between the colours when match-ups are between 45-55? 45 and 50 look identical and Im pretty sure more red can be used.