Pit Matchup Discussion - Wario

Coffee™ · Mar 18, 2009

I've decided I'll start doing matchup threads again, however I currently don't have the time to finish the summaries so if anyone wants to do them, feel free to send me a pm, but to start this off again, heres Wario!

Wario

Wario

Brief Overview of Wario from the Wario Boards

Wario is obviously an unusual character. He is short of stature, yet one of the heaviest characters in the game. His reach is poor, yet he has some of the best killing moves in the game. He moves too fast for a fat man. He's a speed demon that is known as the Ungrabbable Mage of the South. With one good read, he can easily take you from 0%-over 50% in 2 seconds flat. There's no place he is in danger at, with his trusty choppah and graceful gliding in the skies. Wario is like a Glass Cannon, except made of titanium steel... That oddly smells like s***.

He is much better in the air than on the ground, as you may have noticed, but his ground game is not to be ignored. With a 6 frame grab that quite frankly is beast, an amazing Forward Smash, and other tricks up his sleeve, Wario is no slouch on the ground either.

Heed my advice young ones, Wario is no easy mare to tame. Few will ever be able to find the key to his fat heart and soul. This road is not one to take if you are easily discouraged. There are bountiful amounts of other characters to use that are much easier than Wario, do not forget that, but embrace it and let it make you a better player overall.

Discuss!!!

MrEh · Mar 18, 2009

Wario has a lot of perks in this matchup. He's heavy, so you'll probably need a fresh Fsmash or offstage Bair to kill him. In short, it'll be harder for you to get the kill and much easier for him, considering he's freakishly strong. Save your kill moves.

Warios very very agile in air, and he's not afraid of arrows. At all. (well, at least I'm not) You can shoot them all day and he can just hop around and airdodge. Sounds silly, but it actually works against a lot of projectiles. He can slowly approach with hops and dodges.

Pit has no good grab release option on Wario btw. Just a heads up.

Blistering Speed · Mar 18, 2009

Yes, drop any misconceptions that you can camp him because he's got no projectile, because he does still have the best airdodge in the game and the best overall aerial mobility.

yummynbeefy · Mar 18, 2009

well he beats us in the air unfortunately
he cant do a number on us on the ground

but thank god for arrows id say they make this matchup easier even with warios amazing airdodge and mobility
while it is harder for us to abuse warios grab release than others i think that pit may have a few liable options out of release

wario has the edge for sure im gunna say somewhere from 60-40 to 50-50
somtimes it feels kinda hard sometimes it feels somewhat ok its definately leaning in warios favor either way

nevershootme · Mar 18, 2009

d-air d-air d-air. it's the most annoying move 2nd to g&w b-air in terms of escaping by smash DI

not to mention wario has amazing DI ability

Valuno · Mar 21, 2009

This matchup isn't too bad for Pit, it's definitely not unwinnable.

Lack of a good grab release option isn't a big deal, since Pit's mediocre grab range isn't going to grab Wario anytime soon lol

It's all about spacing in this matchup. Pit has a bit of range on Wario, and his uair can beat Wario's dair if angled correctly. Usmash is also good protection against dairs that come from above. Against ground-level dairs you can use nair to protect yourself from that. Note: don't shield afterwards if Wario dairs you at low percents, it's asking to get grabbed or bite'd.

On the issue of camping Wario with arrows, you can do it but make sure to be a sizable distance away from Wario. If he's close, thanks to his insane aerial movement he can dodge the arrow and punish you for arrowing. Even if you're far away, it's pretty hard to hit Wario with arrows if he's in the air. If he's on the ground, arrows spam away :D

Gimping Wario is possible, if you can predict when he's going to Bike, bair him then and he's practically dead. You can also MS the bike which sort of messes him up as well. Leads to nice arrow spam.... You can also snipe him out of the bike offstage as well but that's pretty much luck.

Don't glide attack his fsmash. It's bad.

Idk really what else to say, imo it comes down to who's the better player really.
55:45 Wario's Favor

KY_Des · Mar 21, 2009

Camping in this matchup is dumb, regardless of whether or not you can. You camp him, he gets a charged fart and you die at 70. No camping, and he beats us in the air and on the ground. Only things we have on Wario is range (which isn't by much) and offstage game. Wario's favor, 60:40.

Coffee™ · Mar 22, 2009

KY_Des said:
Camping in this matchup is dumb, regardless of whether or not you can. You camp him, he gets a charged fart and you die at 70. No camping, and he beats us in the air and on the ground. Only things we have on Wario is range (which isn't by much) and offstage game. Wario's favor, 60:40.

If you don't camp you lose.....

Regardless of if you camp him or not he will still get the charged fart and Wario doesn't beat Pit on the ground, in the air definitely but on the ground its more in Pit's favor. Wario wont be there much anyway though.

KY_Des · Mar 22, 2009

The more you camp, the more farts he gets. So camp away if you want to. I'm not gettin hit by 3 farts.

Coffee™ · Mar 22, 2009

KY_Des said:
The more you camp, the more farts he gets. So camp away if you want to. I'm not gettin hit by 3 farts.

You'll just end up taking more damage if you try to jump about randomly trying to hit him.

KY_Des · Mar 22, 2009

R@vyn said:
You'll just end up taking more damage if you try to jump about randomly trying to hit him.

I could stay midrange and play the pressure game. Pit can wall Wario for pressure, and I find pressuring my opponent more effect than standing on the other side of the stage attempting to shoot the most annoying target in the game. You can take your 5-10 damage after shooting 10 arrows, I'll be doing something more effective.

Coffee™ · Mar 22, 2009

KY_Des said:
I could stay midrange and play the pressure game. Pit can wall Wario for pressure, and I find pressuring my opponent more effect than standing on the other side of the stage attempting to shoot the most annoying target in the game. You can take your 5-10 damage after shooting 10 arrows, I'll be doing something more effective.

Camping doesn't mean you simply shooting arrows from one side of the stage. That wouldn't work on Wario much less most characters regardless, he'd be over by you in two jumps anyway. What you are describing is just trying to zone Wario, which works to some extent but that doesn't mean you shouldnt be shooting arrows as your previous posts seem to imply. All in all you should be playing the matchup defensively / campy. Retreating fairs, nairs, dairs, arrows or whatever floats your boat.

kown · Mar 22, 2009

i think pits are dumb..we fail to see any similarities between debating... you all have the mindset that "ur wrong and im right".

Hayang · Mar 23, 2009

I think kown is wrong and I'm right.
There is always gonna be at least one stupid quibble in matchup discussions. I wouldn't think too much of it XD

And after playing a wario today, I have some humble suggestions on the matchup. Please disillusion me me if I'm being dumb.

I think Pit should consider the following, starting from the obvious:
-Get used to the fact that Wario moves really fast horizontally in the air.
-If you are being comboed, use nair, AD, or jump depending on how much distance there is between you two.
-If he has obvious patterns of aerial movement, try to catch him off guard and meet him in the air when he's vulnerable with your own high-priority moves: nair, uair, hyphen smash (not as great), and retreating fair. I don't recommend dair since the hitbox doesn't last long enough, and wario will probably be approaching diagonally and often from above.
-Being above wario is dangerous, since wario can chase you as you try to come down. Your dair isnt great for covering descent, and his uair can kill. I would suggest trying to go off to a side and use bair's lingering hitbox to cover you.
-Being far below wario is good, on the other hand. Uair and watch for his reactions.
-If you like to use WoI in the air to break away from conflict or do a surprise aerial (which is getting popular) you might be surprised to find that wario can sometimes catch up to you and hit you out of WoI. Don't let that happen.
-Be careful at the ledge. Wario has good edgeguarding maneuvers, including bite against jump returns and attack/normal get-up, dair, and fsmash(ouch) to punish your roll. On the contrary, try ledgecamping to keep him guessing as to when you will come back onto the stage.
-If he recovers with drift from high above the stage, and you know he is going to airdodge, time a delayed bair/fair so he gets hit as he comes out of the dodge. Uair is also good.
-Jab when he is on the ground.
-Arrow him when you are far away or after a hit. Stagger time your shots.

(brb, Term paper D: )

KY_Des · Mar 23, 2009

R@vyn said:
Camping doesn't mean you simply shooting arrows from one side of the stage. That wouldn't work on Wario much less most characters regardless, he'd be over by you in two jumps anyway. What you are describing is just trying to zone Wario, which works to some extent but that doesn't mean you shouldnt be shooting arrows as your previous posts seem to imply. All in all you should be playing the matchup defensively / campy. Retreating fairs, nairs, dairs, arrows or whatever floats your boat.

Well I find there to be a difference between playing defensively and camping. I don't suggest camping in this matchup bc most Wario's wont approach you once you start camping too much. They can just jump around like happy little ******* until the clock wears out.

But you guys do whatever you want in this matchup, I'm usin Snake. Grab release ftw =]

PhantomX · Mar 23, 2009

Psst.. we have a slight advantage over Snake.

Hayang summed it up quite nicely in my opinion.

KY_Des · Mar 23, 2009

PhantomX said:
Psst.. we have a slight advantage over Snake.

Hayang summed it up quite nicely in my opinion.

Grab release ->nair, uair, or utilt. It could be an 80:20 and I'd still play it with Snake jus cuz I can do this crap lol

madival · Mar 25, 2009

I gotta give this one to pit.60v40at least. Warios Air release is so terrible that it easily combos for grabs. he has no real projectile attacks. and is easily gimped if you can do it right. his lack of a projectile means pit can spam if he wants to and only really has to worry about super armor attacks(forward smash, bike).
if you can knock him off those your in the green.

PhantomX · Mar 25, 2009

madival said:
I gotta give this one to pit.60v40at least. Warios Air release is so terrible that it easily combos for grabs. he has no real projectile attacks. and is easily gimped if you can do it right. his lack of a projectile means pit can spam if he wants to and only really has to worry about super armor attacks(forward smash, bike).
if you can knock him off those your in the green.

*Facepalms*

kown · Mar 25, 2009

pitboards fail >_>... this matchup is in warios favor.

Admiral Pit · Mar 25, 2009

3 Quotes from AIB concerning Pit vs Wario

My Quote:

Wario is a difficult target for Pit, but I dont think it's because of complete priority. While Pit has slightly better range, Wario is kind of heavy and floaty, keeping him from being CG'd like DK could be.
Wario has good aerials, like F-air, a gay shorter-ranged Marth identical.
Wario is kinda unpredictable and is hard to know what to do next. His recovery is good as we all know.
Technically Wario is an aerial char for the most part, using D-airs and N-airs and such. Finding a way to negate his aerial game can benefit Pit.
As far as recoveries go, Wario can pursue us off stage, and watch out for farts. Being defensive and spacing can help u since u slightly have more range than Wario. Do what Gay Marth does to us spacing-wise.

Haven's Quote

Wario.. Very very annoying to fight, not impossible, just annoying. Most Wario users, hell all of them jump arouns a lot with his amazing aerials, aerial movement and amazing Dodge while they wait for you to leave a weakness and slip up so he can cause a great deal of damage to you. Wario is overall superior to Pit, but since Wario's usually try to wait for you to mess up, whenever you realize he doesn't come towards you directly, spam arrows, force him to try and approach, and then try to find a slip up in his strategy. Spacing is crucial due to his overwhelming speed in the air, so you could either space well with an aerial like the D-air, or I would recommend trying to stay on the ground. Watch out for Bites, they are unpredictable and count as a second grab, and always beware of the F-grab since Wario's have the tendency of grabbing a lot as well, so space well on that regard as well. Don't fall for his pressure games, and watch out for the fart, very strong move and can be used in the middle of being cha.....

It's be cut off, sigh, AIB.

DextaSmurf's quote:

Wario is a tuff match up for Pit. His movement in the air is very difficult to read. He has a great fsmash and his fart can KO. off stage wario isnt easily gimped. His bike alone gives him the ability to get baq to the stage and hardly has to use his ub B. One tactic to use against wario (probably wont work against really smart ones) is not destroy his bike. if u can cause wario to get off his bike and throw him off stage u will have a good try gimping him. 0000 YEA *WATCH OUT FOR HIS BITE* DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT SHIELD BITE*

Again, these are all from AIB comments.

Basically, Wario is an aerial char, but is versatile and quite quick. Spacing is the key here. He can catch us while we are recovering.
Pit doesnt have much KO power while Wario is heavy and strong, bad for Pit, especially when he cant CG his floatiness.

This is between 40-60 and 45-55 Pit's disadvantage. Just because he gots weak range doesnt mean we should underestimate him, like others do to Pit.

MrEh · Mar 25, 2009

PhantomX said:
*Facepalms*

I lol'ed severely.

40-60 is more like it. ^^

yummynbeefy · Mar 26, 2009

naw im leaning towards 55-45
wario has the edge

:mad: · Mar 26, 2009

KY_Des said:
Grab release ->nair, uair, or utilt. It could be an 80:20 and I'd still play it with Snake jus cuz I can do this crap lol

Lolwut?
If you're talking about Snake, a Wario can DI out of that. Anyone can. Nair's only good for the last hit, and you need to DJ just to get the last hit.

Back to Wario, I really can't see 55:45.
60:40 sounds about right. I'd like to hear why it's not such a disadvantage.

S.D · Mar 26, 2009

Wario is a pretty even match imo.

I usually find staying grounded is your best bet, and Nair can be your best friend. It's good for knocking him off the bike also.

Predict his movement off the bike, it will get you free uairs and bairs. Watch the **** out for his freaking f smash, it takes **** down, don't challenge it for christ's sake.

I tend to have more success when I start spacing Fair's like Marth might. It makes him second guess his approaches and can create openings for you amid your defense.

PhantomX · Mar 26, 2009

Except your fairs don't sweep around your entire body, and we don't bike onstage...

SSJ5Goku8932 · Mar 26, 2009

madival said:
I gotta give this one to pit.60v40at least. Warios Air release is so terrible that it easily combos for grabs. he has no real projectile attacks. and is easily gimped if you can do it right. his lack of a projectile means pit can spam if he wants to and only really has to worry about super armor attacks(forward smash, bike).
if you can knock him off those your in the green.

This right here is really, really, REALLY, just not true.

I am really laughing at this as we speak.

I agree on 4:6 Warios advantage

Phantom: I think he was talking about the offstage bike.

yummynbeefy · Apr 1, 2009

R@vyn said:
If you don't camp you lose.....

Regardless of if you camp him or not he will still get the charged fart and Wario doesn't beat Pit on the ground, in the air definitely but on the ground its more in Pit's favor. Wario wont be there much anyway though.

i actually think its pretty even on the ground

S.D · Apr 1, 2009

SSJ5Goku8932 said:
This right here is really, really, REALLY, just not true.

I am really laughing at this as we speak.

I agree on 4:6 Warios advantage

Phantom: I think he was talking about the offstage bike.

Yeah I was XD

Mirror shield his bike recovery too etc etc

Crew · Apr 3, 2009

If Wario has the advantage, it's small and easy to overcome. A friend of mine that I play from time to time has a really great Wario and we're about 50:50. It's a matter of reading your opponent.

When they charge you with a bike, timing a Bair when you know they'll most likely jump off is a really great move.

Just play smart. His Fsmash gives him super armor and he's not going anywhere even if you hit him first... Much like a previous poster said, don't glide attack his fsmash.

I'm settling on 50:50, deviating from previous posters. I just don't fear this matchup at all, despite having a lot of respect for good Wario users. Absolutely do not underestimate them.

Lezard · Apr 3, 2009

i never figth wario before it seem like a interested match up

KY_Des · Apr 3, 2009

madival said:
I gotta give this one to pit.60v40at least. Warios Air release is so terrible that it easily combos for grabs. he has no real projectile attacks. and is easily gimped if you can do it right. his lack of a projectile means pit can spam if he wants to and only really has to worry about super armor attacks(forward smash, bike).
if you can knock him off those your in the green.

It's 60:40 Wario. Pit doesn't have air release anything on Wario. Wario also isn't easily gimped. Pit can spam but you'll only hit 1 out of like 10 arrows so that doesnt help. Also you cant knock someone out of their super armor unless its psuedo super armor. And Wario's got real super armor, so that doesnt work either.

Basically, everything you just said was completely incorrect.

Straked said:
Lolwut?
If you're talking about Snake, a Wario can DI out of that. Anyone can. Nair's only good for the last hit, and you need to DJ just to get the last hit.

Back to Wario, I really can't see 55:45.
60:40 sounds about right. I'd like to hear why it's not such a disadvantage.

Even if you DI out, I still get the damage for the hits while you're still in it. And even if you did rule out nair, Snake still has uair and utilt out of grab release. Mixups son, mixups.

yummynbeefy · Apr 3, 2009

im feelin 55-45 it just doesnt feel that terrible to me

IrisKong · Apr 6, 2009

I dunno about the matchup but I do know that no good wario player uses his bike on stage so whoever said that they can win becuase of them doing that isnt playing good people.

DominusHaven · Apr 12, 2009

Wario is a pretty annoying match up about 6-4 in Wario's favor, 55:45 the least if anyone want's to argue about it. He easily can handle Pit close up, can damage Pit easily, dodge most of Pit's aerials, and kills you early. His fart attack is really annoying as well and can kill you in low percentages if you don't DI it or aren't careful. also spamming arrows a lot isn't useful, Wario's super ultra fantastic dodge and aerial movements pretty much dodge like 9 out of 10 arrows.

Even though he can get close up to you pretty well, I would recommend camping for a decent portion of this match, since usually Wario's try to wait for you to come or dodge everything to do a hit and run sequence. a lot of arrows are useful against him on this one, when it comes to aerials use N-air's and U-air's a lot, it usually gets through a good portion of Wario's approaches.

Avoid D-air's, block them and also avoid a lot of grabs and make sure you space well when doing aerial approaches, as Wario users like to punish them with Grabs. Unless you truly find a oppurtunity or jab cancel into a grab, do not bother even trying to use Grab's against good Wario users, it's pretty much pointless.

Make sure you always take advantage of Wario's bad range and your decent range so that you can get him with good attacks. I would probably recommend staying on the ground when he is in the air, although neutral and up airs can help against him.

I would say more about the matchup, but I am not very experienced in it myself. Sorry if my info was useless though.

PhantomX · Apr 13, 2009

Don't camp Wario. If you wait, he gets the fart, which can kill you at 70 off the stage. I think I killed KY once at like 50 with one, and I stage spiked one other pit with one too, b/c he kept trying to go under the stage to avoid me. Edgecamping isn't that effective either, b/c he can either toss his bike or his tires at you, forcing you to do something, and then either backair you to stage spike, or grab the ledge and use invincibility frames to either nair or waft or whatever.

DominusHaven · Apr 14, 2009

PhantomX said:
Don't camp Wario. If you wait, he gets the fart, which can kill you at 70 off the stage. I think I killed KY once at like 50 with one, and I stage spiked one other pit with one too, b/c he kept trying to go under the stage to avoid me. Edgecamping isn't that effective either, b/c he can either toss his bike or his tires at you, forcing you to do something, and then either backair you to stage spike, or grab the ledge and use invincibility frames to either nair or waft or whatever.

Now that I think about it, that is pretty true, camping does lead to the fart building up, which is a really deadly and annoying attack. If you are really gonna try and hit Wario though it takes more muiti-hit attacks then anything due to his amazing dodging skills. Try to also use lots of fast attacks against him on the ground so he can't really get any of his moves out, avoid grabs as well, that is usually where a large percentage of my damage comes from against Wario.

KY_Des · Apr 14, 2009

Yea camping's bad. It's best to wall with aerials, even if you're not trying to hit him. Keep the pressure on. Edgeguarding is key too. You prolly wont be able to gimp Wario, but edgeguarding gets you free damage. God knows Pit needs it to kill the fat *******. Wario's dair is why this matchup is such a pain in the ***. I'm try to start using nair OoS when Wario dairs my shield, but if that doesn't work then Pit has nothing. Shield grab is too slow and nair is the fastest OoS option Pit has.

And P.X. you killed me at like 65. Wario sucks. Fart really sucks.

kown · Apr 14, 2009

beat wario in the air. thats how you win this matchup...i swear it almost comes closer to 45:55...warios adv.

DominusHaven · Apr 15, 2009

Alright I think I am starting to understand this match up a bit more thanks to the tidbits of information that keeps coming.. Thanks I am going to go find someone good to practice it with now lol.

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