Lucario vs. Falco (5) EXPORT

Timbers · Mar 19, 2009

FALCO

Matchup:

55:45

General info:

Timbers said:
Falco doesn't kill early, but he does a good job at controlling the stage and the situation. You will be the one approaching the majority of the matchup, and one perfect shield is all he needs to usmash oos for a kill at 130-140. Be super intuitive about how you space your moves.

superglucose said:
Expect a camping game because, well, that's what most falcos do without fail.

I think the worst part of this matchup for Lucario is that falcos moves come out quick, and personally I feel safest when I'm right next to lucario because my **** will hit first. It's a hardcore spacing battle for lucario because he has to be in *just* the right range: where Falco is too far away to hit but lucario is close enough to hit. At range there's no question who has the advantage (sorry, lasers > as) and in close I think it's very questionable.

§witch said:
Every move in the game can hit falco out of the latter half of the phantasm, his hurtbox extends past his hitbox at that point

What to avoid:

LordoftheMorning said:
We still need to watch out for his grabs because of his Dthrow>Dair. Not only is this pretty good at damage racking, but it's EXTREMELY annoying. Be prepared to punish grab-happy playstyles Falcos will be used to grabbing people, so don't be surprised if he tries to use this a lot.

G-Beast said:
what not to do: let a fsmash connect at any decently high % or at the edge of the stage, let him dair you offstage, flick AS from a half long distance.

Denzi said:
I don't know if any Falcos still do this, but the "chainspiking CG" (Dthrow -> SHFF Dair -> turnaround regrab) can rack up a lot of damage if you don't know how to deal with it. I'm pretty sure the most reliable response if someone does this is to just Utilt, because it starts at Lucario's back, and that's where Falco will be when you're first able to use it.

Samuelson said:
Just don't get close range with him. Falco beats you in close range with his 2 frame jab and other moves are are faster and can just overwhelm Lucario. You want to be in mid range this matchup. Try to stay right outside of his jab range.

Timbers said:
One thing that wasn't mentioned is that it is possible for Falco to ledgehop dair spike you out of your ES, and he does have several moves that will force an ES (bair, dsmash, ftilt) at higher percents. Timing is strict but it's worth noting. I'm not sure on frames or anything but it does feel like his spike is one of the fastest in the game as well (I'd go so far as to say spike's active frames come out before Marth's, but I'm not sure) so just be careful. It certainly feels like it was created just to eat recoveries with no hitbox.

How to win:

Samuelson said:
Falco can't kill you if you shield and if your shield somehow gets close to breaking then just jump around and run away for like 5 seconds. If he grabs you then whatever...none of his throws are gonna kill you anytime soon. When i'm at like 150 i just throw out babay aura sphere like crazy since they do like 9%, if the Falco decides to reflect it then it won't kill you and it kind of screws up his SHDL game if you do it right. Some people are dumb when Lucario is at high percents...they get scared and run into stuff that they normally shouldn't be getting hit by because they're focused on getting the kill. If your opponent is smart and does do this then i just do really safe moves that make it hard for Falco to deal with. Ftilt and jabs are pretty good in this matchup...don't fsmash if the Falco is spamming lasers...Fsmash is okay in this matchup...you really have to know when to use it.

Samuelson said:
Just power shield through the lasers. It takes some practice but once you get it down it makes the matchup a ton easier.

G-Beast said:
i just hate fighting falco... but here is my views.

Falco's CG doesn't really work on us... its likely he will try to dthrow->something else

range is on our side, when it comes to fighting hand to hand.. but his blaster means we get to approach for once... yay?

Melomaniacal said:
Falco's also like to ledgehop->side B. Keep that in mind, because that's a good chance to pull out an up smash. IIRC, forward smash does not beat it, and I'm not sure about down smash. I'm positive up smash beats it, though. Helps a lot. Must be one of the only situations where up smash is pretty useful .

Other than that, up tilt is good, FP mixups work very well (I'm a fan of SH fair->nair->FP->many options from here). Don't just toss out BAS.

zyklon said:
One more thing, you guys can gimp the hell out of us if you're brave.... Your f-air and d-air can **** us off stage and knock us just far enough back that there's no way to recover, and it's fairly safe for you guys since if we do basically anything to defend, we die anyways.

Helpful tips:

Kitamerby said:
We can't be CG'd unless we literally drop the controller and don't do anything. We can DI/jump out of the regular CG.

manhunter098 said:
Well if you get stuck in Falco's jab, you can DI up and over (mostly up) and d-air him if he keeps it going for too long or you are ready to smash DI the first hit.

Melomaniacal said:
One of the things that helped me most is this match up, is that up smash beats his side-B. This could be a huge asset, as his side-B is usually pretty predictable, and if he's not sweet-spotting it onto the ledge, free upsmash right there.

Col. Stauffenberg said:
Adding onto the topic of AS against a recovering Falco, if you aim low enough it's possible to clip him in the feet even if he uses the reflector. Hilarious to pull off.

Stages:

Melomaniacal said:
Stages for lucario... well, I love my Frigate. Not as easy for him to camp lasers with the platform, dipped parts, etc. Wall clings are always good as well. I've seen many Falco's get screwed by Lylat's edges, but I personally hate the stage. Not a bad choice though.

Col. Stauffenberg said:
I really really like Lylat for this matchup. A lot more than battlefield.

superglucose said:
Stages Falco Hates:
Lylat (of course Lucario doesn't like Lylat much himself for very similar reasons), Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, Frigate Orpheon, and Rainbow Cruise.

Don't ban JJ against Falco. All he really gets on you is super illusion tricks since he can't chaingrab you more than twice from 0%. Plus Lucario can recover fairly well from being spiked into the water. Besides, the high ceiling really helps you out. If a falco takes you to JJ you should cheer because that stage is crap against lucario. Sure you lose your wall cling to wall jump recovery options, but watch me shed a tear for you

If you ban FD Falco will probably take you to Smashville. It's slightly smaller and much the same, and the sides are small

Da-D-Mon-109 said:
Avoid flat long stages (Pictochat can sometimes be like this, but Final Destination and Smashville are the biggest ones) that give Falco a reason to spam his laser, which is like the only thing that he has on Lucario (Lasers beat Auraspheres, unfortunately. ;.; ).

Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping matchup discussing clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past matchup, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.

Lucario vs. Falco (5) EXPORT

Timbers

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