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Match-Up Export #3: Zero Suit Samus (In-Progress) Update #1 Complete

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Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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:zerosuitsamus:Zero Suit Samus:zerosuitsamus:



Summary of Key Points
Zero Suit Samus has the following combo possibilities on Fox:
  • Down-smash Chain: Must start between: 0% ~ 35%; ends at ~100% with a guaranteed aerial follow-up.
  • Unbuffered Forward-throw Chain-grab: XX%
  • Buffered Forward-throw Chain-grab: 17%-26% + re-grab
Zero Suit Samus dies to a fresh up-smash at 81% on Final Destination with no DI.
Zero Suit Samus dies to a fresh up-smash at ~97% on Final Destination with proper DI.
Zero Suit Samus has a stronger/weaker/equal aerial game than Fox in this match-up.
Zero Suit Samus has a stronger/weaker/equal ground game than Fox in this match-up.
Zero Suit Samus has a stronger/weaker/equal edge-guarding game than Fox in this match-up.
Zero Suit Samus has a stronger/weaker/equal survivability than Fox in this match-up.
Zero Suit Samus has a stronger/weaker/equal camping game than Fox in this match-up.
Zero Suit Samus is at a slight advantage against Fox.

Advantages
The main advantage in this match-up Fox has is his ability to keep away from ZSS easily and camp her.
Fox has a much easier time killing ZSS than she will have killing him.
ZSS will be forced to approach Fox the majority of the match and not be able to depend on baiting Fox.

Disadvantages
The largest disadvantage in this match-up is ZSS's ability to place Fox in a high damage d-smash lock.
Fox also has a large difficulty approaching ZSS without fear of being placed in said lock.
Fox is unable to safely chase ZSS off-stage.
Fox cannot depend on spot-dodging due to ZSS having an exceptional ability punishing the maneuver.

Strategy & Match-Up Mentality

Aerial Game:


Ground Game:
When it comes to the ground game, focus on your grabs. Down-throw and back-throw are both excellent for racking damage and resetting the stage for more camping from your end. One trick ZSS has in her ground game comes from dash attack to AAA. However due to Fox's fall speed, Fox is able to successfully shield and grab ZSS out of the AAA combo after the dash attack. Fox should never find himself spot-dodging as ZSS' grab game is sub-par and she has an excellent time punishing spot-dodges with down-smash.

Approach:
Against Zero Suit Samus approaching generally isn't something you need or should do the majority of the time. ZSS is a character based on baiting in order to land attacks such as down smash and side b. However, when it comes to approaching with these, they prove to be less useful than when you are approaching her. Due to your superiour camping ability in this match-up, approaches are generally not something you should have on your mind. Fox trotting in and out can also prove useful if you don't get too close. Generally, use your lasers and speed to force ZSS to approach, which will open her up for plenty of punishment and allow you to control the pace of the match.

Defense:


Camping Game:
This is pretty basic. ZSS is limited in her ability to camp, which usually consists of her baiting attacks against your approach. However in this match-up Fox is able to easily utilize his speed to safely SHDL against ZSS without fear of punishment and quickly reset the stage with a throw against ZSS's limited approach options.

Edge Game:
When guarding ZSS it is important to not chase her offstage, her high maneuverability will result in you being placed in a bad position against her. Instead hold onto the edge and force ZSS to recover on stage and punish from there.

Surviving:
Fox should be able to avoid ZSS' kill options very well due to him not having a need to be baited into her attacks. Be prepared to DI correctly if caught in a down-smash lock as down-b, side-b, and bair-air are all excellent options for ZSS to hit you with out of it. When recovering from off-stage be careful and cautious. A down-smash at the edge from ZSS can catch rising fairs and side-b recoveries, so make sure to be unpredictable and watch ZSS as she prepares to edge-guard.

Killing:
When it comes to killing, you have a good set of options against ZSS. On many moves, you are not safe to up-smash on the block against ZSS, however if something is a complete wiff for ZSS, the up-smash is your's for the taking. Down-smash is another great option as ZSS will have a harder time than others surviving from that angle. It is important to not focus on killing ZSS and instead just focusing on avoiding her and punishing her approaches. Do not fish for the KO against ZSS.

Frame Data:

Banning & Counter-Picking

Stage Striking:
  • Possible Fox Strikes...
  • Pokemon Stadium 1, Battlefield, Brinstar*, Delfino Plaza*, Lylat Cruise
  • Possible Zero Suit Samus Strikes...
  • Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Castle Siege*, Battleship Halberd*, Smashville, Final Destination
    *Indicates a stage that is not commonly starter, but possible. Neither player should depend on these.

Stage Banning:
  • Possible Fox Bans...
  • Pokemon Stadium 1, Battlefield, Brinstar*, Delfino Plaza*, Lylat Cruise
  • Possible Zero Suit Samus Bans...
  • Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Castle Siege*, Battleship Halberd*, Smashville, Final Destination, Corneria*
  • To Be Classified...
    Distant Planet*, Frigate Orpheon, Green Hill Zone*, Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, Pictochat*, Pirate Ship, Pokémon Stadium 2, Rainbow Cruise, Yoshi's Island (Pipes)*, Green Greens*, Mario Circuit*, Onett*, Port Town Aero Dive*, Skyworld*
    *Indicates a stage that is not commonly legal, but possible. Neither player should depend on these.
Stage Counterpicks:
  • Possible Fox Counterpicks...
  • Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Castle Siege*, Battleship Halberd*, Smashville, Final Destination, Corneria*
  • Possible Zero Suit Samus Counterpicks...
  • Pokemon Stadium 1, Battlefield, Brinstar*, Delfino Plaza*, Lylat Cruise
  • To Be Classified...
    Distant Planet*, Frigate Orpheon, Green Hill Zone*, Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, Pictochat*, Pirate Ship, Pokémon Stadium 2, Rainbow Cruise, Yoshi's Island (Pipes)*, Green Greens*, Mario Circuit*, Onett*, Port Town Aero Dive*, Skyworld*
    *Indicates a stage that is not commonly legal, but possible. Neither player should depend on these.
Character Counterpicks:
  • Possible Fox Secondaries...
    Falco
  • Possible Zero Suit Samus Secondaries...
    Sheik, Luigi, Pikachu, Ice Climbers
Videos & Other Outside Resources​


Videos
  • Matches on Starter Stages
  • Matches on Counterpick Stages
  • Lock Demonstration Videos
Other
  • Thread Specifics
  • Misc.
Verdict​

General Ratio: XX:XX
Stage Dependent Ratios:
  • ?: XX:XX
  • ?: XX:XX
Planned Updates:
Links to Matches
Link to Zero Suit Samus Boards Fox Match-Up Discussion
Links to All Previous Zero Suit Samus Discussion from the Fox Boards
Stage Banning
Stage Striking
Stage Counter-Picking
Possible Secondaries
Chaingrab Specifics
Dealing with Opponent Projects
Utilizing your Own Projectiles
Approach
Defense
Recovery
Edgeguarding
Killing & Surviving
Frame Data Comparisons
Advantages & Disadvantages
Key Points
 

718_ROOKI3

Smash Lord
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Nana locking Snake's all over New York City
ZSS vs. Fox Snakeee vs. R00kie

MODS PLEASE DONT CLOSE THIS, AND IF YOU DO AT LEAST HAVE SOMEONE WHO TAKES CARE OF THE FOX MATCH-UP THREAD TAKE THIS WITH THEM FIRST... THIS IS REALLY VALUABLE TOWARDS THE FOX COMMUNITY... THANK YOU

This 65:35 ZSS favored aint really what it seems to be...

This is what your NOT suppose to do in this match-up...

1. Approach - ZSS wants you to approach, its easy and basic to remember her whole game is based on baiting.

2. Spot Dodging - ZSS isnt going to grab, instead she will punish any spot dodge with Dsmash, so dont put yourself in tha position.

3. Chase offstage - ZSS has tons of maneuverability offstage and can punish you for getting greedy.

4. Fish for the KO - ZSS is extremely fast and can avoid KO shots, in event you'll get punished for that too.


This is what your SUPPOSE to do in this match-up...

1. Camp - SHDL, Standing laser you choose... ZSS CANNOT approach, she wont approach due to her characters design... her approaches are too basic and can be read too easily... Fox "out boxes" her (like a fist fight).

2. Ledge Grab - When ZSS is offstage always ledge grab and hold it, this will force her to recover back to the stage and immediately jump away (so she cant be punished) due to the lag if she lands in front of you from the Down B.

3. Get rid of her items - Dont play with ZSS's items, a smart ZSS can and will manipulate her items and hurt you bad for it, the fact you have a reflector doesnt change the fact that ZSS's aint going to directly toss them at you assuming you dont have a reflector.

4. Prepare for DI and SDI - If you just so happen to get caught in that Dsmash infinite, prepare yourself to DI ad SDI CORRECTLY, if you live and make it back to the map, the match is suddenly in your favor (i'll speak more on this in a few).

5. Mix up recoveries - ZSS is good at punishing bad habit recoveries so dont give ZSS a pattern to read, be unpredictable.

6. Grab alot - Camping ZSS will eventually make her approach so read her approach and either Dthrow her and continue campng or Bthrow her and reset across the stage for more camping.

7. Dash attack to AAA??? Just grab ZSS - This does not work on FOX due to his fastfalling, just grab her after the dash attack because FOX can perfect shield her AAA, JUST GRAB.

8. Killing her aint serious, she is light very light, whatever KO method you have, use it. BUT UPSMASH IS RECOMMENDED...

Back to tip #4

Previous tourny, NYC PolyBrawl I played Snakeee(Best ZSS in the country) in an intense serious friendly.
We go pretty even with each other for our first stock each. Second stock he catches me in the Dsmash lock from the right of side of FD all the way to he left side and tried ending my stock with Forward B, but I DI'd and SDI'd correctly and lived at 115%.
As soon as I make it back to the map, I take sudden control of the match and take his second stock which was at 0% before he takes my 115% stock, Due to the things I did (what was written above).
Eventually we both go to last stock and I win with my perent at 85%. (It was just one match, he had to play a tourny match afterwards
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
Premium
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Messages
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somewhere near Mt. Ebott
This is updated as much as I feel it should be at this point. I'd like the opinions of other players rather than going with my own opinions, which is why I intentionally did not fill in some blanks.
 

Sukai

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
2,899
Location
turn around....
Samus' ground game is lackluster compared to Fox's.
Her primary goal is to lure him into the air.
Fox can definitely out-do her on the ground.
They make for good air rivals, Fox's are great for managing damage, when Samus' relies more so on killing.
Samus has the proper tools and priority to gimp Fox up front, especially if he's aiming for the ledge.
If a tether is occupying a ledge, it's just as good as hogging it.
Samus' down b makes up for her easily edgehogged tether recoveries, and attacking out of it makes it all the safer with great knockback and a spiking sweetspot.

For stage picks....
Port Town hurts Samus, she can't recover well there, and a small platform keeps Fox safe from infinites.
Eldin, because Fox can KO easier horizontally than Samus.

Fox can out camp Samus so he doesn't have to approach.
And Samus doesn't have alot of safe methods of approach.
 
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