The New and Hopefully improved Captain Falcon matchup thread! Discussing : MmmmK

talkingbeatles · Mar 25, 2009

This is the new matchup thread for Captain Falcon in Brawl

Yes, Captain Falcon, the MANLIEST character in brawl

He is one of the worst character in the game, and hopefully this thread can find ways to make it easier to play as him, or give you tips on how to play as him.

Things to know:

We will now be discussing ONE character at a time, instead of two.
We will be restarting the discussion, with the exception of the matchups in which the ratio is agreed with the majority of the posters
The next matchup discussion will be decided upon general consensus

And now on to what you came here for, the matchup summarys/current discussions:

Currently Discussing:

peekatchu

pikachu
hes a *****

Previous summaries:

Nidtendofreak said:
I've played Espy's Sonic as Falcon before.

Don't. It hurts when you don't know the match-up. A lot.

Honestly though, when on the ground, Jab and Grabs are Falcon's safest bets. Unfortuently for me, I didn't realize that until the last 30 seconds of my second match. Grab to punish anything Sonic does with any bit of exploitable lag (which isn't much). Grab -> Pummel -> Throw and chase with an aerial before retreating back. Jab for almost anything else when on the ground. When going for the KO, Utilt is really your only solid choice. Don't stale this move out, save it for the KOs. Sure, if you're on the right stage you may get lucky and land a knee KO, I did, but you can't rely on it obviously.

You can go to the air against Sonic, but you have to be VERY careful when doing so. Dair is useless, pretend it doesn't exist in this match-up. Too slow and not big enough hitbox. Bair has it's uses, but it should be saved as your key aerial KOing move or your defensive "I'm running away now, leave me alone" move if you have to get out of Sonic's range while in the air. Nair should also be mainly defensive and used near the ground. Uair is you're only reliable aggressive aerial move. If Sonic lands on at platform above you, and isn't at KOing range, Uair. If Sonic lands on a platform above you and is at KOing range, go for either the Knee or Bair, depending on where he lands and how much lag he has. (As in, did he use a Dair to land on the platform or not?)

Falcon Kick has it's uses in this match-up, but thats basically it for the B moves. Maybe Falcon Dive if he's in the right position, but that's uncommon. Mix up your recovery, if you get predictable, you will get spring'd. Don't go for the gimp, you'll fail. Aim to get him as he gets up from the ledge.

For stages, avoid Final Destination. Sonic can control this stage way too well. Smashville doesn't help either. In neutrals go for Battlefield. CPing, I'd say Norfair if available.

As an unimportant side note, I'd say Falcon has the advantage when playing online. O_o It's weird how a slight bit of lag can change a match-up.

Over all: Sonic's favor, 4-6 from Falcon's perspective, maybe 45-55.

Skip2MaLoo · Mar 25, 2009

Er.. o_o erase the copypasta since this is new thread.

EDIT:
Specifying what I meant. Like, the overall summaries aren't really needed now

Zeallyx · Mar 25, 2009

Skip2MaLoo said:
Er.. o_o erase the copypasta since this is new thread.

EDIT:
Specifying what I meant. Like, the overall summaries aren't really needed now

The ones that are correct, should be added to this thread.
Or else you guys will never be done with matchup discussions.

EDIT: lol@P-3 listening to skip2

Player-3 · Mar 25, 2009

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
EDIT: lol@P-3 listening to skip2

<_<

discuss sonic guize..

i said im updating knee i didnt remove them i just didnt feel like scrolling through 1030391492013920319320 words to find what i needed to fix... so im doing it in notepad where its easier

Skip2MaLoo · Mar 25, 2009

:3 u got skipped on p3.

but I guess you can keep the complete match-ups. i just assumed that we wouldn't need old summaries in the new thread at least until we get to that match up

Zeallyx · Mar 25, 2009

Skip2MaLoo said:
:3 u got skipped on p3.

but I guess you can keep the complete match-ups. i just assumed that we wouldn't need old summaries in the new thread at least until we get to that match up

You guys wont have to 're-discuss' matchups.

Skip2MaLoo · Mar 25, 2009

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
You guys wont have to 're-discuss' matchups.

we're re-discussing sonic..I think

Zeallyx · Mar 25, 2009

Skip2MaLoo said:
we're re-discussing sonic..I think

Read the post I posted two posts back.
No need to re-discuss matchups who were given a right ratio.

EDIT:^fixed.

Skip2MaLoo · Mar 25, 2009

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
Read the post I posted two posts back.
No need to re-discuss matchups who were given a wrong ratio.

...o_O
I think we should re-discuss match-ups who were given a wrong ratio.

Zeallyx · Mar 25, 2009

Skip2MaLoo said:
...o_O
I think we should re-discuss match-ups who were given a wrong ratio.

yeah my bad.
Thats what I meant, and what the post said I told you to read.

_Tiamat_ · Mar 25, 2009

Jabs... lots and lots of jabs vs Sonic. Every time you can hit him, jab, when you're not sure if you have the time to punish with a smash or tilt, jab instead, racking damage on Sonic is tedious, don't waste any opportunity by getting greedy.

Landing a smash on Sonic is VERY hard and usualy happens only when he make a very dumb mistake, trying to finish him off with a smash is a gamble and can be very costly

When he's on the ground he got the upper hand, he can stay away and mess with your mind, baiting and punishing every missed attempts at hitting him, slowly but safely racking up the damage. Try jabbing or grabbing him until he have a nice % then get him in the air and kill. Sonic is more vulnerable in the air by far... still not helpless but it's safer to go for the kill there imo.

it will take forever to kill Sonic if you stale your kill moves since it's so hard to smash him, so I advise keeping as many kill moves fresh as possible, if you do the mistake to stale your main killers like uair and bair, he could be a real chore to finish off and live up to like 150%, remember Sonic is not light, he's average .

Edit: Are we discussing Sonic or not lol I'm confused now. Also changed stuff from my other post in the last matchup thread, but for some reason it didn't show up when I CP'd the first time.

Skip2MaLoo · Mar 25, 2009

yea we're discussing sonic.

my experiences with sonics is stay grounded. don't fall for the mind games. sonic will have to approach sooner or later. jabs **** spin dash approaches but when cancelled into an aerial it causes problems. I camp like hell in this match up because its too risky. ill give more input as later as I can't remember the match up too well. I need to play shadowlink again x_x

Kinzer · Mar 25, 2009

I suppose while you're still on Sonic I might as well say something.

Keep Jabbing. Yeah this was already mentioned, but just holding the A button gets rid of some of Sonic's direct approaches. I'm not lying to you. Although be sure to stay on your toes, for if you just keep mini-pawnching the open range, you will probably be surprised to see Sonic jump right over you and Bair or whatever.

Don't try to chase Sonic, let him come to you. Or at least don't go off running after him with things like the Knee trying to finish him off, you're better off staying grounded so you have less to worry about... As if you didn't have enough things to look after when fighting Sonic, no need to make it any worse on yourself.

Spam lots of Bairs/Uairs/UTilts, they hit Sonic out of lots of stuff are for the most part are quick, honest. No Falcon Pawnching unless you somehow read a bad Sonic players bad habits of leaving themselves open.

Nothing else I can tell you isn't already common knowledge or highly unexpected, but if you need anything else, just hollar I guess.

_Tiamat_ · Mar 25, 2009

Kinzer said:
Or at least don't go off running after him with things like the Knee trying to finish him off, you're better off staying grounded so you have less to worry about... As if you didn't have enough things to look after when fighting Sonic, no need to make it any worse on yourself.

Yeah chances are knee'ing Sonic won't work but I always had the impression finishing off Sonic on the ground was REALLY hard... a lot harder than in the air (with other aerials than the knee)

Maybe it's just me having trouble with him on the ground or the Sonics I played sucking in the air.

t3h n00b · Mar 26, 2009

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
You guys wont have to 're-discuss' matchups.

I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but how will we figure out which matchups don't need to be redone? Obviously someone like Shiek that there wasn't even any ratio on in the old thread we will have to redo, but how exactly is that going to be decided for most of the characters?

Dark Sonic · Mar 26, 2009

Sonic is pretty **** when it comes to air to air combat though. His uair is ridiculously disjointed (like, it seriously beats G&W's dair if you space it perfectly, and it's horizontal range is almost as impressive) and bair has really good range.

Sonic is pretty beast at air juggles, so staying grounded is your best defense against that (Sonic's ground approaches are lack luster, and mostly rely on successfully faking out the opponent). As in most matchups against Sonic, playing really defensive and reactionary is probably your best bet. I'll be open for any specific questions later.

Jim Morrison · Mar 26, 2009

Take most of what was said on this/other thread and I think a decent write-up could be written now. You should probably continue with another character today/tomorrow.

EDIT: Also, lose the weekly thing, it makes it so comitted. Finish a matchup when it's done. It's better than having deadlines.

Player-3 · Mar 26, 2009

Gf2tw said:
Take most of what was said on this/other thread and I think a decent write-up could be written now. You should probably continue with another character today/tomorrow.

EDIT: Also, lose the weekly thing, it makes it so comitted. Finish a matchup when it's done. It's better than having deadlines.

there is no deadlines

Tenki · Mar 26, 2009

_Tiamat_ said:
Yeah chances are knee'ing Sonic won't work

You just have to know what to camp if you wanna land a knee on Sonic

things like spinshot, missed grabs, etc.

Even spring startup =/

Iwan · Mar 26, 2009

I find that running away from sonic and playing a really campy, defensive game works well. Just running away (literally), throwing out defensive bairs and uairs work "okay".

The only thing is, this is one of those match ups where neither player can really camp; no projectiles, so someone's approaching...

And just like in most other match ups, Falcon doesn't have the advantage in terms of approach against sonic. Sonic can mix things up pretty well in the air and on the ground, so trying to get the sonic player to come to you is probably the best bet.

Baiting with an intentionally whiffed grounded raptor boost works ok, but against sonic in particular, he's SO fast that it usually results in getting grabbed. Honestly, for the most part I run away from sonics and try to annoy them to force an approach. From there, you can literally hold A, because Falcon's AAA stops nearly all approaches from sonic. Of course, have some kind of idea of what you're doing; playing a "run away" style doesn't mean you're running around like a chicken with your head cut off.

You still need to space properly and go about your manliness properly.

Sonic has a slight advantage in my opinion though.

Noodlehead · Mar 27, 2009

Iwan said:
I find that running away from sonic and playing a really campy, defensive game works well. Just running away (literally), throwing out defensive bairs and uairs work "okay".

The only thing is, this is one of those match ups where neither player can really camp; no projectiles, so someone's approaching...

And just like in most other match ups, Falcon doesn't have the advantage in terms of approach against sonic. Sonic can mix things up pretty well in the air and on the ground, so trying to get the sonic player to come to you is probably the best bet.

Baiting with an intentionally whiffed grounded raptor boost works ok, but against sonic in particular, he's SO fast that it usually results in getting grabbed. Honestly, for the most part I run away from sonics and try to annoy them to force an approach. From there, you can literally hold A, because Falcon's AAA stops nearly all approaches from sonic. Of course, have some kind of idea of what you're doing; playing a "run away" style doesn't mean you're running around like a chicken with your head cut off.

You still need to space properly and go about your manliness properly.

Sonic has a slight advantage in my opinion though.

your sig, why was there an ad of duck hunt and the dog laughing at me when i clicked the page?

i dont have much experience against sonic
like everyone said use jabs, they are useful against sonic. don't edgehog, i believe his fair can stage spike you. don't roll back into a sonic, he'll just use dsmash. sonic's main gimping move is upB(spring) which can be easily avoided, not a big deal. make sure you don't hang on the ledge when a sonic is coming toward you, you'll just get stage spiked with his bair. try not to do any laggy moves, you can easily be punished due to sonic's speed. sonic's can be a bit tricky. id say 40-60

"your too slow" -sonic
"your too gay"- falcon

tip: jab more

edit: go destroy with falcon, forget your secondaries falcon only

Skip2MaLoo · Mar 27, 2009

Noodlehead said:
your sig, why was there an ad of duck hunt and the dog laughing at me when i clicked the page?

i dont have much experience against sonic
like everyone said use jabs, they are useful against sonic. don't edgehog, i believe his fair can stage spike you. don't roll back into a sonic, he'll just use dsmash. sonic's main gimping move is upB(spring) which can be easily avoided, not a big deal. make sure you don't hang on the ledge when a sonic is coming toward you, you'll just get stage spiked with his bair. try not to do any laggy moves, you can easily be punished due to sonic's speed. sonic's can be a bit tricky. id say 40-60

"your too slow" -sonic
"your too gay"- falcon

tip: jab more

edit: go destroy with falcon, forget your secondaries falcon only

not to be rude but don't make assumptions up b is not sonics main gimping move..this is why other boards call us *******.

Salem · Mar 27, 2009

*Reads thread*

Okay, Sonic huh?

Easy as pie, unless you simply don't know what you're doing.
I'll edit this post later for each of Falcon's moves which counters each of Sonics random situations.

Stage being used for this matchup, or stage I say you should use against ALWAYS:
Final Destination

U-air, alot of it, it will be needed alot in this matchup cause Sonic's like jumping out of they're spin dashes, you may get damaged but you know you'll get your hit in, U-air is very VERY helpful here.

Falcon Kick, Obviously this will be needed to clash with sonics spins dashes, you'll possibly want to either jab or grab after the clash though cause most people don't react fast enough after the clash, though I do an mid air Falcon Kick it seemingly counters his all his dashes either way, and theres no clashes so free damage.

No N-air, banned, you can't use this much any more exept after a down throw cause Sonic's dashes just simply hits you anyway, from what i've seen...

U-tilt, It pretty much stops Sonic from doing any short hopped moves, timing is required.

Jab clashes with one of his dashes, its nice though I can't remember which one.

One more stupid thing... if Sonic ever tries to spin dash Up-b and D-air trying to mind game you, try to space around the spring and Falcon Punch Sonic's a**, timing is freaking hard but at least you know you can get it off.

Eh... Sonic can't do much depending on what you're doing, you're able to aproach with U-air here though he can just use his U-air to knock you out of yours though he'll obviously have to geuss that and you no longer have to be a defensive punishing Falcon which means time to ****, For Great Justice.

65-35 Falcon's Advantage, I know what i'm talking about... he's not a threat, get over it.. i've played some hardcore sonics... its hard every now and then but Sonic obviously does not have the advantage.

Now if you were fighting two Sonics...

Browny · Mar 27, 2009

Gee dont make it too obvious youre only here to troll this thread lol

Jim Morrison · Mar 27, 2009

Salem said:
*Reads thread*

Okay, Sonic huh?

Easy as pie, unless you simply don't know what you're doing.
I'll edit this post later for each of Falcon's moves which counters each of Sonics random situations.

Stage being used for this matchup, or stage I say you should use against ALWAYS:
Final Destination

U-air, alot of it, it will be needed alot in this matchup cause Sonic's like jumping out of they're spin dashes, you may get damaged but you know you'll get your hit in, U-air is very VERY helpful here.

Falcon Kick, Obviously this will be needed to clash with sonics spins dashes, you'll possibly want to either jab or grab after the clash though cause most people don't react fast enough after the clash, though I do an mid air Falcon Kick it seemingly counters his all his dashes either way, and theres no clashes so free damage.

No N-air, banned, you can't use this much any more exept after a down throw cause Sonic's dashes just simply hits you anyway, from what i've seen...

U-tilt, It pretty much stops Sonic from doing any short hopped moves, timing is required.

Jab clashes with one of his dashes, its nice though I can't remember which one.

One more stupid thing... if Sonic ever tries to spin dash Up-b and D-air trying to mind game you, try to space around the spring and Falcon Punch Sonic's a**, timing is freaking hard but at least you know you can get it off.

Eh... Sonic can't do much depending on what you're doing, you're able to aproach with U-air here though he can just use his U-air to knock you out of yours though he'll obviously have to geuss that and you no longer have to be a defensive punishing Falcon which means time to ****, For Great Justice.

65-35 Falcon's Advantage, I know what i'm talking about... he's not a threat, get over it.. i've played some hardcore sonics... its hard every now and then but Sonic obviously does not have the advantage.

Now if you were fighting two Sonics...

You made my day.

Salem · Mar 27, 2009

djbrowny said:
Gee dont make it too obvious youre only here to troll this thread lol

Eh?

Sonic main. >_>

Whats the new stuff they teach over there to you guys?

Darxmarth23 · Mar 27, 2009

stage control. Sonic can be all over the place.

And walk, guys.

Jim Morrison · Mar 27, 2009

Internet does not show sarcasm very well so I'll try to make it as simple as it gets. Your knowledge of Sonic seems rather limited and is best not to be taken into account in this matchup. Suggesting Falcon is a Sonic counter/one of the worst matchups he has does not really make this any more valid.

EDIT:

Darxmarth23 said:
stage control. Sonic can be all over the place.

And walk, guys.

True this is, walk so you can jab out of it. Your running would be stupid because Sonic outruns you anyway. Wait for him to approach.
Also, Usmash ***** airdodge. Try not to fall into him.
And tech EVERYTHING. If you, Sonic could run up to with lightning speed, screech stop and JAB LOCK you.

Kinzer · Mar 27, 2009

:/

Yeah, I'm going to be biased because it is my main, but IDC, better that I correct what you said that's wrong than misinforming people, I suppose Doc and DJ were too lazy/nice to try to let you off easy, but I won't 'cause I'm at school and I have nothing better to do until I get home. I'm pretty sure if anybody else was knowledgable Sonic they could do this too... it's just nobody out there wants to.

That SDJ thing you said is a player-habit, not Sonic in a nutshell. This is what I said about misinforming people, just watch what happens when Sonic keeps rolling on the ground...

Not being able to react quickly out of a clash is another bad player habit. Try somebody who has had their dose of adrenaline and you'll see how fast they can react. Try an Aerial Falcon Kick from out of nothing and you'll probably just leave yourself open for a counter attack too, thanks to his plethora of tricks. ^_^

I don't have to be a Falcon player to tell you that Nair is still good, it sure as hell beats Sonic's any non-spaced Bair/Uair attacks, and if you play your cards right the worst that could happen is they trade-hits.

What is this Falcon Punch nonsense about punishing a Spring -> Dair follow-up? You probably only have so much success with it because the few Sonics you must've played used this so much you could read them like a book and they didn't bother switching up their gameplay.

You really need help/ better matchup experience/ to stop trolling, saying that Falcon has that much of an advantage, I could understand 55-45 just because the matchup is still neutral, but this is just lulzy.

I only hope I typed this up just in time for no poor soul to take up on your word. I won't even believe you until you give specific names as to the hardcore Sonic's you fought, which I doubt are non-existant.

Salem · Mar 27, 2009

Gf2tw said:
Internet does not show sarcasm very well so I'll try to make it as simple as it gets. Your knowledge of Sonic seems rather limited and is best not to be taken into account in this matchup. Suggesting Falcon is a Sonic counter/one of the worst matchups he has does not really make this any more valid.

EDIT:

True this is, walk so you can jab out of it. Your running would be stupid because Sonic outruns you anyway. Wait for him to approach.
Also, Usmash ***** airdodge. Try not to fall into him.

*Looks left then right*

Me?

If me then...

No, not limited though maybe its more like a 60-40 matchup cause it does slightly seem out of hand there.

But you can still ban Sonic out of the air with U-air.

And Falcon's ground game is just simply better then Sonics.

I'd explain the ground thing but i'm way to lazy.

MalcolmM · Mar 27, 2009

Yo dis salem guy has maaaaaaaaaad matchup knowledge.

I just want to see if i can possibly compete him so since we both live in NJ we should money match for 10 or 20 bucks. (Only so i can learn the matchup obviously)

Jim Morrison · Mar 27, 2009

Malcolm has a point. He's still fairly new to the Sonic scene, but still decent. But hey, Falcon has 65:35 advantage, how hard can it be. I say kick Malcolms ***, he sucks. Only 10-20 though? Hell, throw in 50, easy earnt.
Or go to any tourney and face him.

But yeah, if your too lazy to explain why you say stupid ****, don't post it at all.

Salem · Mar 27, 2009

Gf2tw said:
Malcolm has a point. He's still fairly new to the Sonic scene, but still decent. But hey, Falcon has 65:35 advantage, how hard can it be. I say kick Malcolms ***, he sucks. Only 10-20 though? Hell, throw in 50, easy earnt.
Or go to any tourney and face him.

But yeah, if your too lazy to explain why you say stupid ****, don't post it at all.

I'll explain it soon, but it will be long.

@Kinzer:

I only use the Falcon Kick if I know i'll be able to land it in mid air, getting punished is stupid I say.

Also the only time its obvious he's gonna attempt the old cycle is becuase I hear the spring sound, thats all I need to geuss when he's gonna D-air, though times he does something else... but I don't think theres enough time for Sonic to get back on the ground in time for a hit.

I should test that...

Man of Popsicle · Mar 27, 2009

Salem said:
I only use the Falcon Kick if I know i'll be able to land it in mid air, getting punished is stupid I say.

It's brawl. You're never going to be 100% sure you'll land any attack. Unless the persons shield is broken...

F5Hazardousdoc · Mar 27, 2009

Man of Popsicle said:
It's brawl. You're never going to be 100% sure you'll land any attack. Unless the persons shield is broken...

I can land a falcon punch guaranteed.
It involves disconnected controllers and a good distraction.

Anyways, from my very inexperienced viewpoint, I'd say it looks even from the discussion. Sonic dominates in the air, falcon dominates on the ground. Each have their respective problems *sonic getting jabbed out of many moves, falcon is SLOWER OMG*

Face124 · Mar 27, 2009

Darxmarth23 said:
And walk, guys.

Geez, it really isn't as useful you make it out to be. So what if you can do all of your ground attacks out of it? Use it if its a range war so you can utilize tilts and F-smashes, but seriously, you will never see pros use it much at all.

Jim Morrison · Mar 27, 2009

Salem said:
Also the only time its obvious he's gonna attempt the old cycle is becuase I hear the spring sound, thats all I need to geuss when he's gonna D-air, though times he does something else... but I don't think theres enough time for Sonic to get back on the ground in time for a hit.

I should test that...

That obviously isn't a character attribute and just a bad player habit if he keeps D-airing after a Spring. You haven't played hardcore Sonics, ever.
You're so full of ****. Please do not try to fail more in matchup discussions. Falcon Punch? Seriously...

Kinzer · Mar 27, 2009

No need to refute him anymore, I already pointed that out.

Also Walking is a mindgame with Sonic, so I don't see why Falcon couldn't utilise said mindgame.

Darxmarth23 · Mar 27, 2009

Face124 said:
Geez, it really isn't as useful you make it out to be. So what if you can do all of your ground attacks out of it? Use it if its a range war so you can utilize tilts and F-smashes, but seriously, you will never see pros use it much at all.

Better than running, bro.

Kinzer said:
No need to refute him anymore, I already pointed that out.

Also Walking is a mindgame with Sonic, so I don't see why Falcon couldn't utilise said mindgame.

I <3 you.(no homo).

People expect you to run. They always will. Thats why you walk. Kinzers got it down.

lordhelmet · Mar 27, 2009

Why are we re-discussing some of these?

I think it would be better to take a vote of who thinks there is an incorrect matchup for for said character. Wouldn't it would be easiest at the moment to list the previously decided matchups and see what people have to say about them, or something along those lines.

Also, you do plan on putting the matchup picture back in right, maybe even to match the current tier list?

Edit: Once we get the previously discussed cleared up, then we should list out and display the next characters to be discussed.

Ex:
1. Pikachu
2. Ice Climbers
3. ZSS
And so on

Edit 2: Some matchups that I think are messed up:

G&W: Currently 30/70 - IMO 25/75
Wario: Currently 25/75 - IMO 30/70
DK: Currently 25/75 - IMO 30/70
Ike: Currently 35/65 - IMO 40/60
Ganon: Currently 45/55 - IMO 50/50

I know, none of these are big changes, but we are looking for precision right?

The New and Hopefully improved Captain Falcon matchup thread! Discussing : MmmmK

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