New AT: Sliding Z-Drop?

Ingulit · Mar 28, 2009

First, see the first thing I do in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCqQY_EA98o

Now, for my question: what the heck did I do? At first, I thought I had glide-tossed, but then I remembered that you can't Z-Drop a bat and glide toss it at the same time. Where did the slide come from? Is this some kind of tech? All I was doing at the time was slamming the control stick right to turn around and throw the bat while pressing Z to throw it. I don't remember pressing L or R as I did it :S

MK26 · Mar 28, 2009

As far as I can see, you glide-tossed and threw the bat downward

Ingulit · Mar 28, 2009

MK26 said:
As far as I can see, you glide-tossed and threw the bat downward

Nah; I just compared it myself, and when Zelda glide-tosses the bat downwards, the bat goes straight up after bouncing and goes much higher in the air. In the video the bat had an arching trajectory and didn't go nearly as high. In fact, it was the same trajectory of a Z-Drop, which is what has me so confused.

mofo_ · Mar 28, 2009

maybe u ran and pressed z? or maybe its a new Glide Drop or some shizzle

Ingulit · Mar 28, 2009

I'm trying to run and press z, but if you just slam the control stick, let it go, and press Z, then you turn around and Z-Drop. If you've already started a dash, you throw the bat in that direction.

mofo_ · Mar 28, 2009

well maybe its just a mistimed glide toss,

were u even planning on doing a glide toss?

Ingulit · Mar 28, 2009

mofo_ said:
well maybe its just a mistimed glide toss,

were u even planning on doing a glide toss?

No; as I already said, I don't think I pressed L or R. But it looks almost exactly like some kind of Glide Toss, so that's what I called it :S

ndayday · Mar 28, 2009

That's wierd...it looks like a glide toss, but like you said, when you mash the control stick, let it go, and press Z you just turn around and do a Z-drop. You also get the effect of just throwing it. The only thing I can think of is you did it between those two things, or messed the order of the commands up just that one time. If you claim you didn't do anything with L/R...then hmmm.

Perhaps you mashed the control stick, then pressed Z in a downwards angle or something.

cookieM0Nster · Mar 28, 2009

I think that you did a jump canceled running toss, except you dropped the bat in the exact frame of the jump cancel. So, it looked like a glide toss that dropped the bat. This explains why you don't remember pressing L or R. If you are wondering whan a jump canceled running toss is, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwL4Z-sY0rg

It is near the end.

I am pretty sure that I am right.

This is interesting, but it isn't worth the practice and timing needed to do this consistently. You just got lucky. Still, cool.

Also, this is my first post so I should say that I AM NOT A NOOB IN HACKING BRAWL OF AT PLAYING BRAWL. I AM VERY GOOD IN BOTH.

Bellioes · Mar 28, 2009

Yeah it could be what cookiewmonster said but I was thinking about the DAC Item toss too. Maybe you hit the control stick and dashed, then accidently hit A to DA followed by ''z'' to z-drop at the time you cancel your dash attack to an item throw.
IDk both seem possible to me.

Nintendevil · Mar 28, 2009

Defiantly NOT a downward GT. I guess it is a Glide toss with a drop. I don't see any major advantages to using this over a downward GT anyways but nice.

Ingulit · Mar 29, 2009

I know what a Jump-Canceled toss is (I play Diddy, and have seen that video before ;P), and I can safely say I wasn't anywhere near the one jump button on my controller when I did this. And yes, I have a weird control setup ><

The thing is that I haven't been able to reproduce it with any of the aforementioned suggestions... And no, this probably wouldn't be useful, because the only tournament-legal items you can Z-Drop on the ground are Zamus's armor pieces (I think?). Zamus players might take heed if it can be reproduced, but until then... I just want to know what I did!

cookieM0Nster · Apr 10, 2009

IDK then! it is interesting,still.

FatJackieChan · Apr 10, 2009

Wow, nice find. I have no clue as to what you did. From what I could tell, you were running. but if you were walking, my vote is I glide toss with no direction, and with your momentum from the walk, you slid. It happened as soon as you started moving, so I don't know. When running, a jump cancel could get you standing actions in Melee, but did that carry to Brawl? I got nothing.

Btw on the items.
Peach - Turnip
Diddy - Banana, Peanut
Wario - Bike
Link - Bombs
Toon Link - Toon Bombs
R.O.B. - Gyro
Zero Suit - Armor
Snake - Grenades

A tech like this is more useful than one thinks. Zelda's slide is quite long with the technique, and due to the fact that you are simply dropping the bat, lag is severely reduced. If Zelda's slide is that good imagine Luigi's. This could be the new wave dash considering how many characters can obtain items. This technique should really be explored, and if anyone could tell me how I can research this, I will be glad to be the person to explore it. This really has potential, even as much or more than glide toss.

EDIT: Each time I watch this it looks more and more like you were walking, or that the pivot was very important.

Sovereign · Apr 10, 2009

Well guys, don't forget that Z = Shield + Attack. So if he said that he never pressed R or L, then maybe this type of technique is frame perfect, or has a very small window, in which case he nailed on accident.
Just a thought.

I don't have any capture device to show you my progress, but jumping and Z-Dropping the held item allows for some sliding. I'm going to keep experimenting with this to see where I get.

Question for the discoverer of this mishap. What did you plan on doing when you picked the bat. That might help us with where to start.

cookieM0Nster · Apr 10, 2009

Yea I said it was frameperfect too... Can some1 look into this?

Jihnsius · Apr 10, 2009

Do a roll, immediately return to neutral and press Z.
The faster you do it, the longer your glide. I've gotten Zelda half-way across FD with a glide drop.

Go try it on 1/4th speed.
This move is thus called:
THE ULTRA FABULOUS SUPERMODEL SHUFFLE
(from France, nonetheless)

EDIT: and to clear any confusion, here's the button inputs: Hold L/R to shield, immediately tap and release left or right and immediately release L/R, tap Z.

EDIT 2: This only works with certain items. It does not work with any naturally occuring items except for Peach's beamsword.

Supermodel From Paris · Apr 10, 2009

Jihnsius said:
Do a roll, immediately return to neutral and press Z.
The faster you do it, the longer your glide. I've gotten Zelda half-way across FD with a glide drop.

Go try it on 1/4th speed.
This move is thus called:
THE ULTRA FABULOUS SUPERMODEL SHUFFLE
(from France, nonetheless)

I was talking to him when he figured this out; it's easier on 1/4 speed in training mode and you can really get a huge distance out of it. Also, great choice of name. I'm really loving that. The window's very small, like 4-5 frames.

Edit: Works with every item but banans, turnips, suit pieces, and capsules.

Also I discovered a cool thing with Peach:

You can actually Do the ULTRA FABULOUS SUPERMODEL SHUFFLE. It still throws the turnip, but it flubs the throw and you CAN CATCH IT. Sweet mind games ****.

R/L->tap left or right and QUICKLY release->Z->A. Peach can ghetto wavedash with turnips. ****ing amazing.

Jihnsius · Apr 10, 2009

This works with all items except urina, Samus' suit parts, capsules, banana peels, and a select few others.

Here's the neat thing: Certain items that can't be dropped will be lightly thrown forward, from which you can regrab them midair after the glide.

EDIT: and a bit of bad news. If you glide drop, you'll be completely immobilized until the end of the glide.

EDIT 2: Toon Link and Link cannot supermodel shuffle. They either roll or standing throw/drop.

Supermodel From Paris · Apr 10, 2009

Jihnsius said:
This works with all items except urina, Samus' suit parts, capsules, banana peels, and a select few others.

Here's the neat thing: Certain items that can't be dropped will be lightly thrown forward, from which you can regrab them midair after the glide.

EDIT: and a bit of bad news. If you glide drop, you'll be completely immobilized until the end of the glide.

Even more fun:

Do the same thing you did with Peach and then kartwheel immediately into the banana for extremely cool (though potentially useless) fabulosity.

EDIT: Holy Diddy, batman, this crap is better than I thought. You can use this to move very quickly across the stage and the potential is huge IMO.

Jihnsius · Apr 10, 2009

Last thing for now: In the process of trying to figure out how this was done, I learned something else neat: during a glide toss you can throw downwards at varying velocities. One of them threw it down just right so it bounced right above Zelda's head rather than way up. I don't know if this applies to all directions or not, but I only tried it with down-throw. When glide-tossing I used a diagonal down tilt on the c-stick (like neutral b-sticking) rather than a down smashed c-stick.

EDIT (heh): Z is interchangeable with A for any non-dropped glides (turnips, bananas, etc.)

FatJackieChan · Apr 10, 2009

Jihnsius said:
Do a roll, immediately return to neutral and press Z.
The faster you do it, the longer your glide. I've gotten Zelda half-way across FD with a glide drop.

Go try it on 1/4th speed.
This move is thus called:
THE ULTRA FABULOUS SUPERMODEL SHUFFLE
(from France, nonetheless)

EDIT: and to clear any confusion, here's the button inputs: Hold L/R to shield, immediately tap and release left or right and immediately release L/R, tap Z.

EDIT 2: This only works with certain items. It does not work with any naturally occuring items except for Peach's beamsword.

There is an issue. You say that one has to roll to pull of such a technique. He didn't touch L or R and he most certainly didn't roll. I probably will try this anyway, but it's not the technique we are looking for. (Can you get a video up showing us?)

Supermodel From Paris · Apr 10, 2009

FatJackieChan said:
There is an issue. You say that one has to roll to pull of such a technique. He didn't touch L or R and he most certainly didn't roll. I probably will try this anyway, but it's not the technique we are looking for. (Can you get a video up showing us?)

It is the same thing. When done fast enough it is impossible to see roll.

Jihnsius · Apr 10, 2009

You can buffer rolls with the c-stick, you'll never see the shield happen and when Z dropping a frame after the roll starts, you won't even see the roll happen.

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