Lucas Doubles Discussion Thread!

Here, we discuss Lucas' use in teams. He is considered a better character in teams than in singles, so why not discuss how to prosper with him? We will go through each character and determine pros and cons, and potentially good stages to play on.


Pros
Great character in doubles
Great character overall

Cons
He is quite light, and could be KO'd somewhat easily.

Stages to counterpick
Luigi's Mansion - MK excels here, and Lucas can pull some tricks out as well. Both live quite long here, and can KO with strong attacks.

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Lasers can be absorbed by Lucas' PSI Magnet, and can slow down opponents to help set up for strong attacks from Lucas.

Cons

Stages to counterpick
Jungle Japes - Falco lives here, and Lucas has several ledges to tether, and Lucas can PKT2 from the main platform to grab a ledge, thus cancelling ending lag of PKT2. Spiking into Klap Traps/water on the left side is the key here.
Corneria - Lucas likes recovering, and Falco likes the low ceiling.

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
With dthrow's set trajectory, it serves as a GREAT setup for Lucas' upsmash

Cons
DDD is huge and has the potential to get juggled quite easily.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Great character in doubles, who can kill very easily.
Lucas can fill up Mr. Game and Watch's bucket with PK freeze, PK fire, and PK thunder. PK thunder can entirely fill up the bucket with one attack, by tailwhipping a bit.

Cons
Mr. Game and Watch is a very light character, and can be KO'd easily if hit with a strong attack.

Stages to counterpick
Corneria - Lucas and Game and Watch both excel on this stage, definitely consider going here, if it's legal

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Deals with some of Lucas' harsher matchups

Cons

Stages to counterpick
Battlefield - Lucas does ok here, but Marth does quite well here.

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Bananas are always fun

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban
Yoshi's Island - Lucas and Diddy both don't do well on this stage. Definitely strike for the neutrals, maybe consider banning.


Pros
Wario is very agile and quick in the air, which helps Lucas

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Laser can be absorbed by PSI magnet, and lasers continue through the magnet to hit other foes (I think)

Cons
ROB is generally not too good in doubles, he is often juggled around by opponents.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiIcfizN4-Y
Pros
Aura sphere makes a GREAT recovery method with PSI magnet.
Lucario at high percents is scary, and something you want fighting alongside you.

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Pikachu has the powerful thunder attack which you can use to heal and he can use to ****. You can also absorb thunder jolts if you have time to.

Cons

Stages to counterpick
Corneria - I've seen Pikachu do some tasty stuff on Corneria, mainly thunder jolt spam. Thunder jolts along the fin can lead to some nice setups. Also, Lucas can recover.

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Kirby can inhale Lucas and then use PK Freeze to force shields/air dodges, and to heal Lucas.

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
A very strong partner, who can kill VERY easily.

Cons
DK often finds himself getting juggled around, so Lucas may have to go save him from getting completely destroyed.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Blizzard from both ICs can recover MASSIVE amounts of damage.

Cons
ICs aren't too strong of a character in teams.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Zamus can heal Lucas with downsmash, which is fast, and hits opponents who are in range of it while healing Lucas.

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO9daJHsvoI
Pros
Arrows can do a good job of healing.
Arrows are also a good way of saving Lucas if he's going to die. They have small knockback and fairly small damage, and are easy to aim to save your partner.

Cons
Lucas often finds himself having to kill, as Pit often has difficulty doing so.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oAGZH4anFI
Pros
Peach is great in the air, and can lead to some sexy stuff by floating dairs
Turnips can help set up some of Lucas' stronger moves (dsmash, upsmash)
Turnips can be used to help you if you're going to die, but could be hard to use well.

Cons
Peach often has trouble killing, so you will have to kill most of the time.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons
You may find yourself constantly trying to save Wolf, as he gets gimped quite easily.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Din's fire is a nice recovery method, and could be used to save Lucas from dying off the edge.

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Fire breath = tasty

Cons
It's Bowser.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban

:shiek:
Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Ike is super strong, and can kill very easily.

Cons
Ike is often juggled around and gimped fairly easily.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQRnc_B88wg
Pros
Double Lucas is too good.
Lucases can heal each other with almost anything.
Make your enemies say "wtf" when you both pick this character!

Cons
DEAR GOD, DOUBLE MARTH!!!!

Stages to counterpick
Corneria
Brinstar
Luigi's Mansion
Anything else Lucas tends to like.

Stages to strike/ban
Yoshi's Island - FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Anything else Lucas doesn't like.


Pros
See Lucas

Cons
See Lucas

Stages to counterpick
See Lucas

Stages to strike/ban
See Lucas


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros
Steak 'n omelets

Cons
Sonic cannot kill, Lucas has to.

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban


Pros

Cons

Stages to counterpick

Stages to strike/ban

Lucas does well with a character that's really good in the air.

Doubles is my favorite. My usual partner and i both go double lucas, it's hilarious, catches ppl off guard, and PK Freeze to heal each other is just too good. But lately he hasn't been around and i've been teaming with a lucario main and i feel we work so well together. Lucario is great to handle a MK or G&W if need be. Also, if you have the opportunity, he can heal you from great damages in little time. Lucario's uncharged orbs will heal lucas from 100% to 0% in 4 seconds!! that's the time it takes someone to come back to the stage! Also, if you like to edge guard someone with PKT1, your parnter can jab you so your lag cuts once you've hit the opponent so you don't have to waste time circling it or trying to drive it into the stage. Lucario lives to high damage and he can constantly keep you at low %ages. on average, i heal more than 150+ damage. IMO, Lucario is a great team mate for a lucas.

Pit is also pretty good for the arrows. They also heal you fast. If you can't make it back to the stage and your teaming with a pit main, they can shoot an arrow at you and hit you with it after your pkt2 and then you can pkt2 again. i've done this with a pit main and we've done pretty well in tourneys

Lucas is probably a stronger character in doubles than singles as a lot of his weaknesses are negated through the nature of a team battle.

He has good KO options and approaches are harder to defend against when opponents have to concentrate on more than just you.

PKT2 can actually become a legitimate approach/attack option too with the pandemonium of a teams battle.

i agree. PKT2 is great, but make sure your team mate knows to just shield it rather than side step or AD it bc they stand a greater chance of getting hit.

I also forgot to mention that in teams, SH Nair is AMAZING. It won't decay your f-smash so you can kill at lower %ages

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO9daJHsvoI
This match is a Team Session with a friend of mine.

I generally find that Lucas can really shine in Teams (If your not screwing up your recoveries like I did. xD) Characters that can fight well in the air are good partners as well as ones that can spoonfeed him health. Others like G&W / ZSS are also incredible partners as well. As for a stage I have yet to think of any good ones.

Chu245 said:

Lucas does well with a character that's really good in the air.

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Ness Ness Ness

MenoUnderwater said:

Ness Ness Ness

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Yeah..but Lucas can recover. <_<

Very dire in teams since so much more gimping goes on.

My teams partner uses Falco/Pikachu depending on who we are playing, and I really enjoy playing with both characters.

We had a hard time learning to play well with each other, (as I think most people will experience when first playing on a team with Lucas) but after a few matches we just clicked.

Pikachu is amazing to play with, as he is fast, has an amazing KO/heal me move, and is decent in the air. Plus, PKT + Thunder means if we are in a 2 on 1 situation and our opponent is offstage, they arent coming back on. Falco is more his power character- we do this combo when we think we can just power through or outcamp our opponents.

doubles with Lucas is awesome.

I never do doubles in tournies just for fun in friendlies
But I play alot on wifi
The characters I work well with are Zelda, Pikachu, Pit, and Ness

Pretty much any character that can heal Lucas
is a great partner.

A friend of mine back home uses Zelda, and we do Zelda/Lucas from time to time.

I think Pikachu is one of our best options. He's a solid character who can heal us with one of his killing moves, and can do so without sacrificing the chance to hit the enemies. Thunder jolts do not require him to give us much attention, since he can shoot one and then go do something else while we go grab it.

I have a Pit player that I team with more frequently. We can't really find time to heal with arrows, unless the stage permits it. I have been saved with an arrow while recovering (looped by him) and that is pretty awesome. Lucas is a more efficient killer for that team, since Pit's best kill moves are really weak compared to those of Lucas.

Me and my friend use kirby-lucas.
kirby can take pk freeze and use it to heal lucas greatly.
and kirby is good in the air.

soccerdude7200 said:

kirby can take pk freeze and use it to heal lucas greatly.

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What are you trying to say.

lucas can give kirby his power and then heal off it.

Note that this takes more time than setting up lucas to get falcon punched by his teammate.

here are two of my matches with my original partner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEu5RP_jofc (i'm the darker lucas and he is the lighter lucas)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQRnc_B88wg (i'm the darker lucas in this one as well)

Chu245 said:

What are you trying to say.

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Kirby sucks in Lucas and absorbs his power with w/e that move is. then, Kirby uses his neutral B, which has become PK Freeze, to heal Lucas

Levitas said:

Note that this takes more time than setting up lucas to get falcon punched by his teammate.

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Sometimes, the opponent gets intimidated by the incoming PK Freeze and they move out the way. This helps Lucas absorbing Kirby's PK Freeze. They might have to be slow/dumb in order for it to work though.

If you start the match with Kirby as P1 and Lucas as P2, you'll start the match next to each other, so you can turn around and Kirby inhales and gets PK Freeze :o

FireKirby7 said:

Sometimes, the opponent gets intimidated by the incoming PK Freeze and they move out the way. This helps Lucas absorbing Kirby's PK Freeze. They might have to be slow/dumb in order for it to work though.

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If you watch the second match that i posted you'll see that i heal my partner using pk freeze so much bc the opponent shielded the first time, got hit, whatever. (i don't really remember) but then he tried swooping (he was pit) and he got hit at the same time my parnter healed. it was hilarious. a must watch

p.s. comments on the vid are greatly appreciated

Any thoughts on teaming with ROB?

It's worked alright for me in the past. ROB can save with laser from bad grab releases and do weak lasers to give another recovery opportunity, and of course heals. I haven't been able to do this often, but you can bair/dair meteor into a ROB smash into your own aerials.

_OraNoS_ said:

Any thoughts on teaming with ROB?

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I don't think ROB is that great in doubles, personally. I think the lasers wouldn't give enough of a gain to be used effectively. :\

It takes time to use PK Freeze to heal, not for Kirby to take the power.

_OraNoS_ said:

Any thoughts on teaming with ROB?

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i've teamed with a few different ROBs and imo, it is only decent. I've gotten way better results going lucas/lucas instead of lucas/ROB.

IMO, Lucas is one of the best team players in brawl. My friend and I use lucas-fox to great effect-stay together-fox ***** the opponents with blinding speed while lucas keeps them at a distance with pks fire and thunder. and when the damage is high enough, fox protects lucas while he delivers the final blows.

Also interesting, although I havnt used this team too extensively, Lucas-Lucas seems to work very well. They compliment each other nicely. 2 pk thunders can really f*** with the opponents, and they have the capability of being very deadly if standing together and both firing off their upsashes, timed a second apart so that while one is vulnerable, the other is firing off a very deadly strike

welcome to smashboards ^_^

I went lucas fox at my first brawl tournament less than a week after the game came out. it was fun.

I'm thinking about starting a Lucas doubles thread where we look at each character from the roster and see who is ideal, and who is a dud. Eh, what do you say?

why not just use this thread?

zombie, you're from philly? i'm just north of there in Reading right now at school. (normally from allentown). you should come up to our tournament on April 11th since it's only 45 min. away from you. we have like 54 ppl confirmed already, this looks like it's gonna be a pretty nice tourney and anyone else who can make it should definitely come to this

here is the link if you're interested: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223438

anyway, back to this thread bc i don't want it to look like i'm advertising >.< i'm going lucas for my next tourney (see above) and my teammate will be a lucario

~NASTY~

Levitas said:

why not just use this thread?

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Because it's not compiling information into the first post.

Irsic said:

Because it's not compiling information into the first post.

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how much information is there on Lucas in doubles? It seems like we should have a large discussion thread to discuss stuff, and as we decide on stuff THEN we should make a definate thread dedicated to pure information on Lucas in doubles.

Irsic said:

Because it's not compiling information into the first post.

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I can definitely edit the post and do things on a character by character basis. We could make this a discussion thread where we go by and discuss each character and add them to the list, and do some pros and cons for each.

How does that sound?

edit: I guess a discussion thing will be good, so let's start with....Mr. Game and Watch. He's a solid character in teams, and him and Lucas play well with each other. Lets talk about stages, tactics, etc. An obviously good tactic is filling up Mr G&W's bucket with PK fire, thunder, or freeze. Thunder can fill the bucket all the way with just one try. More thoughts will be gladly accepted. Discuss away.

edit2: I updated the first page. I think we should discuss characters similarly to how we discussed characters in the singles matchup thread.

Hey I just thought of something awesome a Lucas + G&W team can do.

You know how G&W's up b makes a wind that pushes nearby standers away?
You think you can do a instant PKT2 exploiting that? It's better than Toon Link's dair wind, because you hit TL in the process. But with this you can instantly PKT2 and G&W escapes with his up b! Its perfect.

That would still probably hit G&W.
G&W's Uair would be better.

I think you're thinking of his upair? My roommate, who plays G&W, has done this to me before, but offensively, caused me to lose a stock way early. In teams, something like this may be a bit tough to incorporate, and would probably take a bit of cooperation, but may be a good tactic.

Chu245 said:

That would still probably hit G&W.
G&W's Uair would be better.

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G&W's Up-B has invincibility frames/super armor. Around the start I think.
It might just be a good way to catch 'em off gaurd.

Well, using up b, wouldn't you just hit Lucas?

No....... First Lucas starts PKT, G&W uses up-b, and the wind pushes him towards the PKT.
Maybe if you're close enough you'll get hit though. I'm not sure how far the wind goes on G&W's up-b. I wasn't thinking they stand right next to each other from the start or anything. I don't think I'm saying this right, but.... can you stand a specific distance from G&W so both of you don't hit each other? Like how far can you stand away from G&W so that you still get pushed by the wind.

I have to test it later and see if it works or not.

I still think it would be a lot easier to just upair. Like if Lucas is on the right side of the stage, and wants to attack to the left, he sends his thunder right as soon as he sends it out, and the GW pushes him into it, thus sending him flying probably downward and to the left.

Also, what would be some good stages to use? I already put Corneria up there because I know its really good for both Lucas and G&W. Also, what would be some stages to avoid?

Uair can also help lucas recover.

Corneria is banned in most tournaments bc of the instant KO Toon Link can do. i'd say any good stage would be a stage that is good for lucas only because G&W is good on like any stage.

Corneria is banned nowadays?

Shame, it really is a great Lucas stage.

Just pick Green Greens or Brinstar instead.