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Yoshi v. Diddy Kong

Shiri

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:yoshi: This is the thread for discussion on the Yoshi v. Diddy Kong matchup.
 

bigman40

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If you simply don't have the time to act patient and try to handle the nanners, you're basically ****ed. This is a huge mental game here. You can have possibly two to three different playstyles in this match, but you don't wanna just cling on one of them.

The first is mainly all aerial, where you're almost always pushing out an rising aerial to cover after whatever aerial you may have SHed. This is fairly decent when Diddys get impatient and attempt to counter as soon as your aerial is ending. You'll at least be away from getting tripped all the time (if you can time the DJ through the nanners and attacks), however, you'll be at a awkward position. You'll be above Diddy, and you have to adjust playing when opponents would most likely be under Yoshi (this is assuming they block all of the attacks). Since Diddy is decent when opponents are above him, you should be okay from this position.

Second style would be to fight grounded against him. This is most of the time the hardest cause you need to equally use his nanners (hope you're good at catching) to cut down a few of his options. Since dash grab is mainly disabled in this matchup, you'll need to find a moment where a standard grab can get the job done when a dash grab would get you tripped. You'll also need to keep the pace going with Diddy to stay equal for this, or at least keep forcing the pace to slow down to your level. Egg laying would be important here cause most Diddys would be shielding (general opinion) as one of their approaches (run up > shield, nanner toss > shield, etc.) Still, don't get too much into egg lay cause with Diddy's speed, missing would cost a lot on you.

That's all I have for now. Got homework to finish.
 

Shiri

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:yoshi: Back throw chaingrab to 34%.

Grab release to ~50%.

Dash attack.

Down tilt at the edge.

Down air off the stage.

It looks this easy on paper, but in a match, it gets infinitely more complicated, but you should still remember these various tools you have at your disposal. Looking back, they kinda look like they go in sequence, but they're just a list of things that work in the matchup.

Listen to Scatz.

Abuse Egg Lay.

Watch out for forward smash; learn how to DI this move if you don't learn anything else about how to fight this character.

KO as soon as you can. Diddy staging comebacks is LOL.
 

SOVAman

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Imo grabbing is your biggest weapon. With grabbing him he will have a hard time getting nanners out and helps you keep close to him. Also if there are no nanners in the way CG him for free damage and you can Uair him when he jumps out of the release.

So abuse the release as much as possible for free Uairs and damage. Also try to keep him off stage. He recovers very low most of the time so run off Fairs are easy to land. Also once you land that Fair once he will start recovering high which will lead to easy Dairs. So a big thing to punish in this match up is his recovery. Just be careful around his barrels ;)

Thats all I have on this match up really. I need to work on this match-up it is definably one of my hardest match-ups.
 

PRiDE

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**** this match up. stay in the air and wait for the diddy to get impatient.
 

YoshiIslander77z

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eggs can mess up nanner throwing, if u can predict his glide toss an ets 8% can add up after a while. some times just short hop eggs can help. some diddy dont give me trouble then u go against one that knows how to fight and incorperate the bananas into his gameplay, then the match up makes u cry on the inside

why does ht 50% mater in the release grabs?
 

ADHD

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Yoshi has a ****ty shield, diddy ***** it!!!

All yoshi can do is cg, if diddy spaces his bananas well not to get grabbed and doesn't approach recklessly I think this matchup is pretty near-impossible.
 

PRiDE

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Yoshi has a ****ty shield, diddy ***** it!!!

All yoshi can do is cg, if diddy spaces his bananas well not to get grabbed and doesn't approach recklessly I think this matchup is pretty near-impossible.
So, I guess its cool now to put M2K quotes in your sigs? LMAO Attention *****!!! </3 ADHD =)
 

Depster

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This matchup isn't hard at all if you make sure to grab his nanners before he can. Yoshi banana dribbling is too good
 

Poltergust

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This match-up really isn't all that difficult, and I've played with the best Diddy in Florida. Sticking to the air works wonders, and even though Yoshi may get grabbed a lot he won't really be affected by the Bananas. Oh, and Yoshi lives to like 180% against Diddy with good DI. Seriously.

Don't forget Yoshi's DACIT! =O
 

Tidycats29

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This match-up really isn't all that difficult, and I've played with the best Diddy in Florida. Sticking to the air works wonders, and even though Yoshi may get grabbed a lot he won't really be affected by the Bananas. Oh, and Yoshi lives to like 180% against Diddy with good DI. Seriously.

Don't forget Yoshi's DACIT! =O
the man speaks the truth



This match up isn't hard
i personally just bair a lot

egg spam when he releasing nanners
and btw throw an egg near a banana on the floor its LOL worthy as the diddys keep failing to get the banana

Cg diddy to edge is just too good
you can **** him off stage with either a dair or just egg spam him

be patient and you should win
easy as that

i think i have a personal best of 7 straight matches against diddy users that end in time running out
 

Slice~

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i just LOVE this mu <3
the most diddy players are overstrained by yoshi´s item techniques (Pickup, DJ cancelled item throw...)
the nanners are a great addition to yoshis gameplay imo ^^
 

Cliche-Guevara

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Watch out for getting predictable with your DJ throws with the nanas that you pick up or else you might eat a terribly DIed Fair (Assuming you either tried to throw it down or toward the diddy, not up) somewhere near the edge and have only the eggs to attempt to make it back.

imo you need to be patient, Diddy is fast enough to punish yoshi from a good ways away, so take this match slow and just build damage. Even if both of you are at 125% only one of you is in danger of dying. Use Nair, Bair, and Dair to chase him off the stage. If you have the opportunity to CG him, take it, but more often than not there will be a nana somewhere on the floor.

I like to use lots of egg lay in this matchup too, gives you time to regain control of the stage (picking up his nana's).

Edge camping with eggs isn't a bad idea, but quit if he gets close. He has enough spikes with good priority that you dont really want to get predictable off the stage. (Barrel Spike will beat Upair unless im terrible at spacing it since the moves messes with Diddy's momentum.)

Just dont rush this fight, make him come to you and earn it. You will be surprised how far yoshi's weight will carry him in this fight.
 

SOVAman

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If you think the match up is easy then your not playing good diddys. There is no way this match up is easy.
 

Shiri

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:yoshi: Whether you think the matchup is easy or not, do not forget that DR can snag bananas right out of the air.

If there's only one reason to learn DR, I'd say it's for this matchup.
 

nicalobe

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If you think the match up is easy then your not playing good diddys. There is no way this match up is easy.
Completely, 100%-ly true. This matchup sucks for Yoshi because it seems like anything we try to do, Diddy can do better and twice as fast.

We spam egg toss, he spams bananas, trips us, throws us off the stage.

We grab his nanners and try to use them against him, he picks them up very easily on the run, throws them back, trips us, and throws us off the stage.

We play an all-ariel game, he waits for us to land, uses special Diddy Kong Hax Speed and throws a nanner at us for the half second we're on the ground, trips us, throws us off the stage.

I'm not saying this match is impossible, I have beat some Diddys, but try playing a top notch player, and it seems like the entire fight you're on your *** as he monkey ***** you.

What I try for this matchup is stay away from him and bait him into attacking, I usually throw out retreating bairs until I see a chance to attack and get some momentum going.

If you ever happen to pick up a banana, don't throw it back at him. He has too many moves that make picking up bananas easy for him. Either throw it off stage, throw it onto a part of the stage where he won't try to pick it up, or throw it into the air. I do this so he only has one banana out instead of two, making the match slightly easier, but not by much.
 

Poltergust

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I really don't see what the problem is, though. Since Yoshi should almost always be in the air in this match-up, then he really isn't affected by Bananas. Like I said before, though, he IS succeptable to Diddy's throws, but thankfully they don't pose much of a threat as long as you DI correctly.

Now, for kill options, Yoshi has Diddy beat. Diddy shouldn't EVER kill Yoshi until Yoshi is at like 180%. Not even the spike poses much of a problem (I survived it at 140%). Meanwhile, Yoshi can kill Diddy at around 120% with his u-air, Yoshi Bomb, and (if Yoshi is lucky) f-smash. Diddy's lack of early kill options really hurts him in this match-up.
 

SOVAman

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I really don't see what the problem is, though. Since Yoshi should almost always be in the air in this match-up, then he really isn't affected by Bananas. Like I said before, though, he IS succeptable to Diddy's throws, but thankfully they don't pose much of a threat as long as you DI correctly.

Now, for kill options, Yoshi has Diddy beat. Diddy shouldn't EVER kill Yoshi until Yoshi is at like 180%. Not even the spike poses much of a problem (I survived it at 140%). Meanwhile, Yoshi can kill Diddy at around 120% with his u-air, Yoshi Bomb, and (if Yoshi is lucky) f-smash. Diddy's lack of early kill options really hurts him in this match-up.
If your living against a diddy over 180% then that diddy is not good and need to work on KOing. Diddy just need to land a Fair or a Fsmash and even somtime a Dsmash. Diddy has a lot easier time landing KOs than Yoshi. His KO moves are faster. Yoshi is horrible at KOing in general. His only real KO moves are his Fsmash and Uair and sometime Usmash(if you haven't decayed it already)
 

bigman40

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Diddy has much easier time setting up his kill moves. If you are truly careful and stay away (or get lucky sometimes) when he did setup his killing moments, then you can live that high. It's a fact that Yoshi < Diddy at killing. We need to be grounded, and we need to catch opponents off-guard mostly. Besides, how can you KO if you're always in the air (assuming that you staled Uair at this point)? You have to fight him on the ground at some point to get what you want, and when the Diddy player realizes that, he can just make you become eager to get the kill so that you'll fall into his setups.
 

Poltergust

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It's possible for Yoshi to survive Diddy's fresh un-charged d-smash at the edge at 160%. Not to mention that his f-smash can be SDI'ed out of. Diddy's main killer in this match-up is his f-air, but even that won't kill until a high percentage, and it would most likely be decayed, too. Are you guys sure that you are DI'ing correctly? :confused:
 

bigman40

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It's possible for Yoshi to survive Diddy's fresh un-charged d-smash at the edge at 160%. Not to mention that his f-smash can be SDI'ed out of. Diddy's main killer in this match-up is his f-air, but even that won't kill until a high percentage, and it would most likely be decayed, too. Are you guys sure that you are DI'ing correctly? :confused:
I'm fine on DIing dude. The only main problem I have is that you're saying Dsmash won't kill. Plus, you missed my point when I said that Diddy can setup his killing moves easier than Yoshi can.
 

Poltergust

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It won't work until 170%, at least. It's not really a good kill move if you DI properly.

About the set-ups, like I said earlier the Bananas won't be much of a problem for Yoshi as long as you are airborne. And that is why Diddy's f-air would be his main kill move in this match-up, even though it may be decayed.

EDIT: Wait, we have a b-throw chain-grab on Diddy? I had no idea...
 

SOVAman

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Polt this match up is bad stop trying to argue against it

The match up it bad because
1. his set-ups set up for
-down smash
-spikes
-Fsmash
-upsmash
-and really anything including gimps
2. He KOs better than yoshi
3. Racks up damage better
4. out spams and doesn't get really affected by eggs
5. He has more range and priority

Really every aspect of the match up diddy is better
 

Poltergust

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OK, let's take a deep breath and look at the pros and cons of this match-up for Yoshi.

Pros:

  • Better in the air
  • Chain-grab (if no Bananas are around, at least)
  • Less gimpable recovery
  • Heavyweight, and therefore WON'T get KOed by Diddy Kong until very high percentages
  • Can n-air out of Diddy's up-smash
  • Better KO moves (yes, I'm still arguing this)
  • Diddy's spike won't kill until 150%~
  • Bananas won't affect much if Yoshi remains in the air
  • DACIT works well if a Banana is tossed up
  • CAN gimp Diddy with properly spaced d-airs and n-airs
  • Eggs break through Peanut Popgun (not that Diddy would EVER be using it, but worth a mention)

Cons:

  • Can be easily grabbed
  • If Bananas do trip Yoshi, can lead to bad outcomes
  • Can't perform chain-grab with Bananas in the way
  • Worse on the ground
  • Eggs not as useful
  • Egg Roll absolutely useless (seriously, how can you trip while in an egg? <_<)
  • Succeptable to Diddy's f-air
  • Diddy's side-B can cause problems
  • Can't easily punish Diddy's dash attack (which leads to a grab most of the time)

Basically, this match boils down to how well the Yoshi player can react to the Bananas and how well he DIs. If the Yoshi player can't do both of those, then this match-up would be a nightmare. If he CAN do that, however, then this match-up is really quite simple.

I've NEVER been KOed by Diddy in a tournament match at less than 160%, and that's not an exaggeration, either. That's why I'm arguing that Yoshi has better kill moves.
 

Cliche-Guevara

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Yoshi has stronger kill moves, I wouldn't call them better.

It really isnt that hard for diddy to apply pressure to yoshi either, with no options out of shield he can get some good pressure strings going that Yoshi cant do **** about.

You say you've never been killed under 160%, but what % was the diddy at when you were at 160%? Something tells me it was quite a bit less.
 

Shiri

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:yoshi: I'll agree with you guys that Diddy is a good character and the matchup can be hard/annoying.

I cannot agree, however, on the notion that Diddy has an easier time KOing. There's something special going on if you're really getting KO'd by his smashes at less than 150%. We've already gone over the DI issue, so if you're confident about that, then you really need to examine what's going on. The only halfway reliable way to KO for him here is really forward and back air. His smash can KO, yes, but not at any actual percentages--good DI and good momentum canceling destroy Diddy's smash game.

As for setups into anything else, let's say you have a careless stock every once in a while and fall for Side+B off the stage. Sure. Let's also assume that when recovering sometimes you air dodge during your jump to dodge the forward air and get mindgamed into a back air instead. Fine, it happens. Let's say that Diddy makes legit back air KOs, which he does, and is quite good at it. Awesome. What else is there? Down air? LOL! The only setups Diddy has into down air at the edge can be DI'd pretty easily back onto the edge; I've yet to encounter a setup that takes me so far over the edge that I cannot land on the ground. I mean, I guess neutral air could go in there, but that's another 150%+ move, so it's beyond the realm of our discussion at the moment.

Gimps? I'd like to hear about Diddy gimps on Yoshi. Tilts at the edge I can see being surprise moves, but something tells me you guys are talking a little more bread-and-butter here. I know Yoshi doesn't have an easy time KOing in any matchup, but you guys have to admit, Diddy's efforts are surely no better here. Unless there is seriously that much of a skill gap between the Yoshi and the Diddy, the only reason I can see people complaining about living to ~180% is if they get hit so often that the higher percentage is overshadowed by the fact that they get there really quickly.

Part 2: Guevara has a very valid point in that, while you can outlive Diddy Kong percentwise, you have to be able to outdamage him in the long run. That's a very important factor. I think the approach to the matchup should either be: 1] don't get hit or 2] live long if you do get hit and hit back harder.
 

Poltergust

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I can't remember details like that. @_@

But, I do know that I have yet to lose to a Diddy in a tournament match. So... it could be that he was down a stock? Or maybe at around 120% where he is primed to get KOed by a u-air or up-smash.

*wishes that his matches were saved*
 

Cliche-Guevara

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I personally prefer to trade hits with Diddy rather than running around trying not to get hit. Cause Diddy is just too fast to be able to out manuever him all the time.

If you can trade hits with a Diddy to where you are both sitting around 100 percent, just remember that he is a lot closer to dying than you are. Which is a very good thing in this matchup.
 

Le_THieN

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After reading the comments alluding to how this match-up is "easy money" in Yoshi's favor, it is painfully obvious that the vast majority of you all have never explored this match-up to any significant depth. Before I risk putting words in the mouth of someone else, I highly recommend that you all get Bwett into this discussion immediately.
 

Shiri

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:yoshi: I don't think anybody has ever said anything close to "easy money" or "in Yoshi's favor."

The comments have ranged from "not that hard" and "annoying" at best to "f*ck this matchup" at worst.

I'm pretty sure everyone recognizes that Diddy is a good character and gives Yoshi a hard time; you're probably reading in between the lines too much.
 

Le_THieN

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:yoshi: I don't think anybody has ever said anything close to "easy money" or "in Yoshi's favor."

The comments have ranged from "not that hard" and "annoying" at best to "f*ck this matchup" at worst.

I'm pretty sure everyone recognizes that Diddy is a good character and gives Yoshi a hard time; you're probably reading in between the lines too much.
While I recognize that possibility exists, it does not make the implications from those statements less palpable. Besides, the issue is not with the fact that people may think it's in Yoshi's favor, but that the advice offered to push the margin of favor into Yoshi's column (i.e. stay in the air) begets a serious lack of depth that people generally have with this match-up.
 

bigman40

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Staying in the air as a prime option isn't good in the first place, but it might be better than just completely staying grounded. Yoshi has to fight on the ground at some point, and have to battle Diddy, which is where he shines at. At any rate, the matchup can easily go into Diddy's favor when Yoshi can no longer handle nanner pressure.
 

Depster

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That is why I said control the bananas in my first post =D Really though, if you have the nanars, the matchup is much less lopsided
 

chimpact

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Diddy kong does not recover low. He has a great recovery in side B and if hes too far, up B is a last resort. Yoshi slides pretty far after a trip so diddy has to be really quick with his follow ups. There's no way you can survive a fresh dmash at the ledge at 160%.

Imo diddy has the advantage 55-45. Diddy has to camp a little to get bananas out and he will not get CG'd a lot because of the bananas, but the GR to up air is worrying me a little bit. no yoshi has done that to me yet.
 

Poltergust

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Um, Yoshi CAN survive a fresh d-smash at the ledge at 160%. I've done it before, so that means it's possible. (And yes, I'm talking about the first hit, too)
 

Poltergust

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Hm, that's strange...

*snap* Oh, I see!

The ENDING percentage was at 160%, Scatz. I thought that I was clear on that, but I apparently wasn't. Sorry. ^_^;
 
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