Toon Link's Match-up Discussion #9: Wario (Rediscuss)

In an attempt to have all match-up threads under one user so that editing is easier, this match-up thread has been recreated. Naturally another discussion is merited as well.

The original match-up thread can be found here (clicky).


Analysis of Wario's moveset in by SasukeBowser
- Special Moves
- Smash Attacks
- Tilts
- Throws
- Aerials

Toon Link's favor: 55-45

Seriously...
I'll argue for this more later, but the main things are:
We camp the **** out of Wario if we do it right
Zair is deadly in this matchup
U-tilt>Wario's Dair

^ Dont forget his aerial mobility. He kills us earlier. I think its even personally.

Try to keep Wario's at bay with projectiles. However, don't play too defensively, we have good aerials, too! Just don't rack up a whole lot of damage, that gives him time to charge up his Waft, which alot of Wario's use to recover and edgeguard. Watch out for the bike, the only way you can knock Wario off is by hitting or grabbing him, not the bike. The bike is also a primary way for Wario to recover. if he loses it while on the stage, keep it alive so he can't use it until it's destroyed. Now, dish out everything you've got to get him off the stage, and gimp him, his Up B sucks! You don't have to be afraid to spike or go for a FAir kill, just don't try to be too flashy. However, watch out for his annoying @$$ DAir, it can lead into an FSmash, which has Super Armor after the start up, and is practically lagless, so he can use it again.

His bite is a pain. Nothing can go through it, only if you hit him with a projectile, or somehow manage to hit him from behind. This can be a deadly edgeguard for those who roll onto the stage, and basiclly their trunp card for spot dodgers and shielders! Most Wario's will try to chain Bite you. Don't fall for that , it's nerve wracking. I can tell you from personal experiance

However, a good Wario will try to play defensive and sometimes go on the offense once his Waft is charged and see's that all you do is camp.

I say 55:50 Wario
or atleast 50:50

:/

Darnit.

I feel 60:40 Wario.

I'll edit this later if questioned why.

Power of Slash said:

I feel 60:40 Wario.

I'll edit this later if questioned why.

Click to expand...

Why?

9001char

If I were to say off the top of the head I would go, 60:40 Wario, Ill explain later

Let's all explain later.

Because Wario mains won't answer meh. ;_;

I've played against a few good Warios actually. >_>

I've played both Fiction and Futile in friendlies a couple times.


I iz teh master of Wario.

Look at the first post.

demonictoonlink said:

Why?

9001char

Click to expand...

If I had a legit reason, it'd be because I just do. I have... little to no wario experience. all I know is they like to spam Dair, airdodge all over the place until an opening presides and kill with Uair or Fsmash. Wario just seems like he has multiple options to get past the projectile walls, and once he's inside it doesn't seem like we can do much to get him out.

got nothing productive to say First post analysis pretty much sums up everything.

This is a pretty bad match up for Toon Link. Wario mains can weave through projectiles very easily, and their aerial game has priority usually do to a Wario's spacing. Fighting off the stage or on the edge is never an option because their game off the stage is too good especially when Toon Link is below the stage. Proper spacing and stage control is a must to win this matchup and it is very tough in my opinion for Toon Link. I would say the match up is 60-40 in Wario's favor.

Wario's bike serves as somewhat of a defense to TL's jectiles. Because of this we need to get closer to Wario or get into the air where the jectiles can hit. This is a huge problem because of TL's lack of close-up fighting ability. The bike's wheels pose as another counter to jectiles, as they can be used for cover while Wario approaches.

Out of the 3 smashes, Wario's Fsmash is probably the best and most important because of it's armour frames. The problem we'll be seeing here is inflicting damage or maybe landing a possible KO move but is rendered useless by those armour frames. Shielding will protect TL from potentially being KO'd but a fast OoS option is needed, and there really isn't one.

Tilts are seldom used, but that doesn't mean they're not a KO'ing move or a set-up tool for the Wario player. Dtilt, Bair, Nair, and perhaps grabs are good ways of taking advantage of Wario's tilts' "laginess."

As for air game, TL's Uair and Bair will outrange Wario's Dair, Nair, and Fair, Zair can outrange Bair. Not too sure but I think TL's Dair will trade hits with Wario's Uair. The bomb can cancel out all of his aerials so Z-dropping or throwing them may work better than using one of your own airs to beat/cancel out one of his.

KO'ing is going to be difficult. If your Usmash isn't kept fresh, it won't kill until 140%+(assuming it isn't Brinstar or RC, etc.). A DI'd Uair can be another potential KO move but Wario can't be too low in the air/stage or his percentage can't be too low. Err, maybe an edgeguard Fair can work too.

My two-cents on this match-up.

I use to think that 60:40 was an accurate number, but after playing the likes of Jerm, who is ridiculous at spacing, I can tell you guys that Wario has almost just as hard a time killing TL as you guys do killing us. We kill sooner, on the norm, and we can gimp you (about 1/3 of my "kills" on Jerm are gimps -_-), but you rack up damage super fast. I played Hyrulian in a money match as well, but he was more than a tad inexperienced in the Wario matchup. I would still mate with him, though. I'd have even MORE input to give, but Santi AVOIDED ME for the ENTIRE weekend!

I would say about 55:45 in Wario's favor, purely for longevity reasons.

Wario's chance of winning: 55%
Toon Link's chance of winning: 45%

I main TL myself. And Wario normally gets the head start, but atleast I don't fall for the darn chain bites.

So in my eyes, Wario has the slight advantage.

Wario can be gimp'd too lol just ask slikvik and reflex about your boy!

Personally from playing some good wario mains this match up is slightly in wario's favor or even. Wario's ability to bob and weave thru projectiles is pretty **** good. TL can combo wario with bairs tho. Wario is good close in but with proper spacing and distance TL can punish wario pretty good.

It goes against everything I know as a TL main, but use u-smash a lot. I play this match-up every day, and z-air completely wrecks him, but when he comes from above, it's hard to dodge. So either stay in the shield and spot dodge and hope you get the timing right, or u-smash him before he gets to you. It wastes a kill move but builds up lots of damage and stops the attack that will lead to the most damage for you. And you still have u-tilt for a 10% later kill.

If he's off the edge, poke him with z-air. If you're lucky and hit him as he's trying to bike, congrats you just gimped him or made him waste his fart. His recovery sucks without the bike. And if he's stupid enough to leave it onstage, camp near it and try to push him off the edge.

Bomb or z-air beats the bike, and he can't gimp us too well with the offstage bite - our recovery is too good.

Camp a lot, he'll get an extra fart if the game lasts long enough, but we'll deal a lot more damage by then and avoid more than if we stay aggressive. Oh and if he's recovering with up-b, just toss out one jab. It will make him drop and he'll have to up-b again, but most people don't realize it until too late since wario's up-b has no range