G&W and Planking

Noa. · Apr 13, 2009

This thread is not to discuss whether or not planking should be banned. Nor is it to discuss how one should plank with G&W. I made this thread to find out how to handle planking with G&W. I have never come across planking in a match, but I do want to know what I should do if I ever face planking.

I was reading the thread on planking and one of the main arguements for why planking should not be banned is because it has not been fully explored, and tactics to counter it have not yet been discussed with many character boards. I realized that this board has never really mentioned planking in its posts and how to deal with it. Because of this I honestly don't know how to beat planking.

When people mention G&W in discussions about planking they only mention how good he is at doing it himself. I have never heard anyone mention whether or not G&W is capable of handling planking. I could imagine that G&W shouldn't have much of a problem with planking, but I've never been in the situation nor have I seen other G&Ws being planked. G&W should have the aerials to catch MK without invincibility frames along with a recovery that's good enough that he wouldn't be accidentaly gimped.

Obviously the biggest planker is MK, so what aerials can stop MK from planking. I'm thinking that a timed bair should be able to catch MK but I'm not too sure. Slowfalled dairs could also handle the planking. Does dtilt work well against planking? I just see problems with how MK might gain invincibility frames too early to be hit with dtilt. But just is honestly all just theory as I have no experience handling planking.

Have you ever come across planking in a tourney? Did you defeat it and if you did, what tatics did you use to beat it?

Gates · Apr 13, 2009

First of all, you should probably change the title to "How to deal with Planking as G&W" or something to more accurately portray the purpose of the thread.

Also, I'd say fairs and bairs would be the best tools to deal with planking. Nairs could work too but they obviously won't stage spike or anything. Speaking of spiking (lol alliteration), Dash attack could be good against ******s plankers if you time it right.

Some stuff we could also test: dtilt, ftilt, dsmash, fsmash, judgement(?), full bucket.

G&W could theoretically have a lot of options against plankers since his moves stay out for so long and have multiple hit properties.

ZOMG USE TEH CHEF GAIZ ITZ TOO GOODZ FOAR TEH EGEGUARDINGGGGG!!!11!

Mr. Escalator · Apr 13, 2009

G&W can attempt to bait a MK on the ledge by doing Dtilts, which are unsafe to the Shuttle Loop, and use that to bait said shuttle loop. Dash attack actually can hit in between jumps, but that's prediction on your part and isn't at all reliable. Bair is where it's at, slowfalled Dair actually also is not bad (though not great), and fast falled Nairs may work. I wouldn't suggest Fair, because it can be unsafe on hit even if it ends up being sourspotted. Of course, this assumes that you even hit him in the first place with Fair.

Oh, and of course, UpB can work easily. Run and airdodge off and UpB right back up.
Uh, maybe Uair works with this strategy as well; Get under him an force him up.

We don't talk about it much because G&W has options to work around it, so planking isn't a huge factor in the matchup (though it certainly is a factor). Plus, talking about G&W's planking is so much more fun.

omegablackmage · Apr 13, 2009

i would probably just step back and toss some bacon, when two or more are heading his way run in after them with a key. This forces him really far down or to try and interrupt you, which will fail. So he either gets hit, or you up b to the ledge and now he's in a bad position to get nair'd or something.

Hylian · Apr 14, 2009

omegablackmage said:
i would probably just step back and toss some bacon, when two or more are heading his way run in after them with a key. This forces him really far down or to try and interrupt you, which will fail. So he either gets hit, or you up b to the ledge and now he's in a bad position to get nair'd or something.

I was going to suggest this very same thing.

It's actually really easy to punish planking with GW, as you have a ton of options to do so.

Bacon -> Dair
Bacon -> Hug ledge -> Falling nair/Uair

Run off B-reversal Bacon(It traces the edge)

Dtilt

Dash Attack

Full hop off and get underneath them then do anything you want. Uair/Nair/Bair all work.

A2ZOMG · Apr 14, 2009

IMO D-smash can also be useful against planking. It reaches fairly low and has a 3 frame release. Although the above mentioned options are also very good.

cutter · Apr 14, 2009

I'm going to have to agree with Hylian and OBM; this is actually a practical application of Chef because of the fact the food arcs and is slow giving you cover when you go in to dislodge the planker.

A lot of people get the illusion that planking is some unstoppable, unbeatable tactic; people just need to learn to educate themselves on how to counter it with what they have at their disposal.

Ruuku · Apr 14, 2009

Wow. When I saw the thread title, I thought it would have something to do with Pirate Ship... >_< Anyways, as Hylian, OBM, and cutter posted, G&W has a number of options to stop an edge camping MK or even gimp him. Personally, I like doing neutral B into dash attack. Edge camping seems to be more effective in particular matchups or against certain play styles but rarely is unstoppable.

Also, I think "planking" isn't a good name. >_>

Mr. Escalator · Apr 14, 2009

Nobody "agrees" with me

Therefore I am going to have to agree with Hylian, OBM, Cutter, AND Ruuku.

Noa. · Apr 14, 2009

Hmmm, I think that I'm going to use chef setups. I <3 chef and I jump at any oppurtunity that calls for it. Chef would be used to pressure MK so he doesn't have so many options in the air. Then I just fall with an aerial. Seems pretty solid.

Is it possible to out prioritize chef? I'm sure MK's special moves cancel the bacon but do any of his aerials do? I've never seen an oponnent outprioritize chef. They usually just airdoge it or manuver around it.

Chef to dair, bair, nair and uair are reliable, but you shouldn't use fair.

If I were to use bacon>aerial would I attack him with the aerial while he's leaving the ledge or about to grab it? Timing is very important and I don't want to mess it up.

Also using dash attack as a stage spike. Even though it's not reliable, I might attempt it sometime.

And I would change the thread title to something more suitable but I actually don't know how to edit titles. :laugh:

BBQ° · Apr 14, 2009

Mr. Escalator said:
Nobody "agrees" with me
Therefore I am going to have to agree with Hylian, OBM, Cutter, AND Ruuku.

Your idea could work, but baiting can be unsafe, because if the MK knows the G&W matchup, then he'll know that you're baiting him. It's a huge mindgame.

I've always used bacon to deal with planking, even though the planker was a scrub, so I don't know if it works for sure.

Gates · Apr 14, 2009

Mr. Escalator said:
Nobody "agrees" with me
Therefore I am going to have to agree with Hylian, OBM, Cutter, AND Ruuku.

I kind of agree, but like BBQ said it depends a lot on your opponent.

Ruuku said:
Also, I think "planking" isn't a good name. >_>

It's named after Plank, the guy who created it.

PentaSalia · Apr 14, 2009

so that guy was the only one to figure out an obvious tactic lol? that it was named after him>.>
hanging on the edge?lol

isn't dash attack the best way to deal with plankers though?
it isn't hard to time it right

BBQ° · Apr 14, 2009

PentaSalia said:
so that guy was the only one to figure out an obvious tactic lol? that it was named after him>.>
hanging on the edge?lol

isn't dash attack the best way to deal with plankers though?
it isn't hard to time it right

Well, I think Plank was the first to really abuse it. He's won tournaments by planking only.

Dash attack can be easy to time if your opponent sucks. You have to time it so the invincibility frames of the planker on the ledge are gone, but if the planker is smart, he'll know how to keep himself from being vulnerable.

Noa. · Apr 14, 2009

Plank is not the guy who discovered planking. He was just the first person to use it and be noticed. I believe it was the same with wobbling in melee.

Mr. Escalator · Apr 14, 2009

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF you guys.
Baiting was ONE option I noted. I noted a bunch of options and closed my post up with "G&W has tons of options".

Whatever, I'm not wanted here. Time to main MK :<

CPU? · Apr 14, 2009

what exactly is planking?

PentaSalia · Apr 14, 2009

Straight from the wiki lol

"In Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Planking, is a form of camping that abuses the invincibility of stage ledges. Planking refers to excessive camping (typically with Meta Knight either jumping up and down) due to the fact that ledge camping is very difficult to edgeguard in brawl. This is even more powerful with Meta Knight because his priority is so high and his attacks are incredibly quick and easy gimp kill moves. This was named after a California Meta Knight user who was known for "planking" the edge. Similarly, stalling just to make the time go lower is also banned. Such examples include infinite wall chain grabbing to overly high percentages. Minor stalling such as moving around the stage to get to a better position is not banned. "

CPU? · Apr 14, 2009

thank you for that pentasalia
so its pretty much camping on roids?

Gates · Apr 14, 2009

Mr. Escalator said:
Whatever, I'm not wanted here. Time to main MK :<

k, say hi to Overswarm and Seibrik for me.

Ruuku · Apr 15, 2009

Seibrik doesn't main MK. He mains counterpick.

Gates · Apr 15, 2009

Heh, that's a good way of putting it lol.

PentaSalia · Apr 15, 2009

CPU? said:
thank you for that pentasalia
so its pretty much camping on roids?

yes pretty much
but on a higher level

especially if MK is doing it

NJzFinest · Apr 15, 2009

Isn't GW an amazing character for planking too?

Gates · Apr 16, 2009

He can be I suppose.

Mr. Escalator · Apr 16, 2009

He's beastly at it.

Noa. · Apr 16, 2009

Just not as good as MK. Most players who do tend to plank Pick MK because it's easier and better. THat's why not many people know how good G&W is at planking.

Motel Vacaville of the West · Apr 16, 2009

G&W has the whole...

Grab Ledge -> Go to an angle -> Up B -> Repeat

My colleagues call it "Paraguarding"

Anyway, it's nice for an easy stage spike against the stage, much like using Dash A when someone is holding the ledge. They just simply bounce off the stage to their death

As for "against planking" Chef is pretty good.

The Reverend 814 · Apr 17, 2009

G&W is an amazing planker and counter-planker. OBM and Hylian have the best idea with chefing the edge and forcing plankers to go below the ledge so you can key them, it works like a charm and i've gotten numerous kills with it to boot. As far as planking there is nothing better than fast falling nairs and following with an up-b. It is an amazing gimp and can easily take stocks away.

Another very risky plank maneuver is going for a key spike right from hanging on the ledge, I have actually done it before, people don't expect it sometimes because they believe the nair is coming. Hell I've spiked a ROB to his death with it. JUST REMEMBER TO FAST FALL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

Oh and good **** clearing up the origin of plank. I think its region based like up here in North East US we follow that Plank created Planking. I never heard that Cali origin. Hahah speaking of plank he was at my last tourny, took forth and said he was quitting brawl...no one believes him.

UTDZac · Apr 17, 2009

G&W + Yoshi Pipes makes me cry. Planking + decary reset... gg

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