The Pokedex Guide to Pokemon Trainer+

(Now with infinite Rare Candies!)​

*Edition 4.1beta*​

Note: Needless to say, this is a “Work in Progress” guide to Trainer; as the game ages, Brawl+ becomes patched, and the metagame is more intricately developed, this guide will adapt and change accordingly.

Second Note: Please, absolutely NO discussion of how characters should be buffed/nerfed. Debate that stuff elsewhere; we're here to discuss the current characters AS they are.

Third Note: This is a thread dedicated to Pokemon Trainer (aka using all 3 pokemon); separate threads on the individual (“Wild”) pokemon should be discussed in their own respective thread. Pokemon Trainer IS expected to experience a major change in upcoming patches that will make him unique from the separate (“Wild”) counterparts. As of 4.1beta, however, since PT is in no way different from the individual pogeys, discussion is allowed for the time being. But please, try to keep discussion as even as possible among the 3 characters.


So, without further ado... Welcome to Pokemon Trainer! This is a thread dedicated towards discussion and analysis of the new Pokemon Trainer. From changes in move properties to combos to switch strategies to matchup discussion... all that will be dealt with here!

Update Log
​

4/21/09: Created a more organized OP





I – First Impressions/Major Changes in the Overall Trainer
II – Squirtle

• II.i – What's Changed?
  II.ii – Pros/Cons
  II.iii – Moves
  II.iv – Tips and Strategies

III - Ivysaur

• III.i – What's Changed?
• III.ii – Pros/Cons
• III.iii – Moves
• III.iv – Tips and Strategies

IV – Charizard

• IV.i – What's Changed?
• IV.ii – Pros/Cons
• IV.iii – Moves
• IV.iv – Tips and Strategies

V – Stage Analysis
VI – Matchup Analysis
VII – Videos

I. First Impressions/Major Changes in the Trainer​

Aside from character-specific differences, Trainer received three major changes in the transition form regular Brawl to Brawl+:

Firstly and most noticeably, upon death, pokemon no longer switch out. This means that you can keep using the same pokemon without having to switch through the cycle... ever.
Second, there is now an option to switch out upon death by holding the shield button before you're KO'd. Some guidelines to this:

Off the side and below: “KO'd” means the moment you explode and the character makes its “yell of death”.

Off the top: “KO'd” means the moment you leave the blast zone and are sent into the “shooting star” animation (the character falls into the background, with a different death yell).

Lastly, each pokemon has infinite stamina now; they will no longer become fatigued due to a preset timer, nor does any attack cause fatigue.

II. Squirtle​

In the original Brawl, Squirtle had a great aerial and ground game, but suffered immensely to fatigue and stale moves. His main kill moves were down throw and fair. And though he was the lightest of the three, he had a relatively unique ability to survive longer than usual due to his momentum-canceling forward B.

With the transition to Brawl+, his aerial game was buffed up ENORMOUSLY. He's now a combo machine, able to string aerials easily. And with the added hitstun, he's more able to edgeguard so well he can pseudo-wall-of-pain opponents with fair, bair, and dair.
He excels in killing at the sides, and his ground game sets up well for aerials. D-throw kills will likely still be his main source for KO's.

He's truly a ninja turtle now, but still does very badly against long-range characters like Marth, Ike, and Olimar. He's still VERY light, and is now more susceptible than ever to die at low percents, as his special ability to momentum cancel with withdraw has been nullified.



Pros
- Very quick (not only because of the overall B+ speed buff; his Dash Dance, shell-shift, and hydroplane make him especially quick and more apt at feints).
- Small size
- Very floaty, which in turn enable his aerials with ‘Wall of Pain’ properties.
- Extreme priority hit-boxes on all almost all aerial attacks.
- Great edgeguarding game
- Ground game easily sets up for aerial follow-up

Cons
- Very light
- Has a hard time dealing with long-range characters
- Lack of KO diversity



Coming Soon!



Coming Soon!

III. Ivysaur​

In regular Brawl, was mainly used like a wall; she was all about racking up a ton of damage while maintaining her spacing with long-range attacks. She could effectively shut down most direct approaches. She definitely pulled her weight, but suffered from a poor recovery.

Brawl+ changed her from Ivysaur to combosaur. ALR has helped her GREATLY, as she can now seamlessly combo with aerials. Lack of Stale moves greatly helps her u-air, fair and forward smash, as these moves are now even more reliable for generating KO's.

She can still wall extremely well with tilts and razor leaf. An added speed boost to razor leaf makes this more spammable and better for harassing the opponent and shutting down projectiles. With the new gravity system, d-throw and u-throw can now setup very well for aerials. Her recovery is still very poor (in fact she's more susceptible to edgeguards and egdehogs), but she now has a reliable stall in her dair to help her get back to that ledge!



Pros
- Plenty of ranged attacks
- Awesome projectile attack
- Great shield pressure game
- Adept at scoring early kills (namely, with u-air)
- Throws easily combo into aerials

Cons
- Still poor recovery, even with her new stall
- Especially prone to fire attacks, which many other characters possess



Coming Soon!

III.iv Tips and Strategies​

Coming Soon!

IV. Charizard​

Regular Brawl had Charizard as the main powerhouse of Trainer. His edgeguarding game was good, as was his super-armored recovery when sweet-spotted. His main approach was the multi-hit terror known as Rock Smash, and his grab game was near godly, especially in regards to grab-release setups.

Brawl+ made this dragon pogey even more of a monster. His edgeguarding game is simply amazing, as he can also perform WoP-like edgeguards mostly thanks to his new, improved fair and bair. His SH aerials offer a great approach alternative to Rock Smash. Flamethrower's range and power makes it an excellent damage racker and eats shields for breakfast; the same goes for Rock Smash, which you can control more easily than in regular Brawl. His throws, though not as godly as they used to be, still offer lots of combo potential, especially in the case of u-air.

Though he benefits greatly from the B+ transition, he also suffers from a few things. Added hitstun and increased gravity make him the classic combo target due to his size. No auto-sweetspotting means his recovery suffers greatly as well.



Pros
- Heavy weight allows Charizard to suffer more punishment before being KO'd
- Triple jump allows for better edgeguarding and recovery options
- Wide hitboxes on many of his attacks
- Easy damage racker (especially with Rock Smash and Flamethrower)
- Long grab range

Cons
- Tall; a big target
- Lack of auto-sweetspot REALLY hurts up-B recovery



Coming Soon!



Coming Soon!

V. Stage Analysis​

More testing/input needed.

VI. Matchup Analysis​

More testing/input needed.

VII. Videos​

Recommend any high-quality videos, and they'll be put in here!

Pokemon Trainer+

Reserved for future use; we'll need this space later on.

We'll probably be tweaking the game in such a way that makes Trainer a unique character as well as having the three Pokémon available as their own character. Plus I can see having one thread for three characters who can also be more or less used by themselves anyways being a big clogged up. So I don't mind if you want one for each Pokémon. Although right now I'm not sure what that leaves you to discuss in here. ^.^.

I consider myself a Squirtle main in B+. I practice Charizard too but I generally steer clear of Ivy. Dunno why, I know she's good, I just like the other two better. I really should devote some time to Ivy.

One thing I really like about Squirtle is that his feints are incredible. Between his dashdancing, shellshifting (which he can do literally anything out of, facing either way), the ability to cancel a run into a crawl, his great aerial maneuverability (he's Jiggs-light), his watergun which can give him even greater aerial maneuverability, a high-priority long-range hard-to-punish dash attack, a fantastic pivot-grab, and a fantastic jab combo, he is easily one of the best characters at faking approaches and punishing misreads. I'm just glad I'm the one doing the feinting and I haven't had to fight against a good Squirtle yet.

Almas said:

We'll probably be tweaking the game in such a way that makes Trainer a unique character as well as having the three Pokémon available as their own character. Plus I can see having one thread for three characters who can also be more or less used by themselves anyways being a big clogged up. So I don't mind if you want one for each Pokémon. Although right now I'm not sure what that leaves you to discuss in here. ^.^.

Click to expand...

Hence why I was a bit hesitant in creating this kind of thread. lol

I actually preferred to discuss PT in general as I do want to use all 3 in a way similar to vbrawl; guess we'll have to wait for that specific tweak in order to even begin effectively talking about Trainer.

10 sadfaces.

JCaesar007 said:

One thing I really like about Squirtle is that his feints are incredible. Between his dashdancing, shellshifting (which he can do literally anything out of, facing either way), the ability to cancel a run into a crawl, his great aerial maneuverability (he's Jiggs-light), his watergun which can give him even greater aerial maneuverability, a high-priority long-range hard-to-punish dash attack, a fantastic pivot-grab, and a fantastic jab combo, he is easily one of the best characters at faking approaches and punishing misreads. I'm just glad I'm the one doing the feinting and I haven't had to fight against a good Squirtle yet.

Click to expand...

yeah, his aerial maneuverability is so similar to Jiggs it's crazy.

And I suck for forgetting to mention super-sexy watergun, which is now even more effective in creating setups and scoring the occasional gimp.

Crouch-canceled dtilt is too good for shield pressure.

Also, is it just me, or does the shell-shift go a bit farther now than in regular brawl?

GuruKid said:

Also, is it just me, or does the shell-shift go a bit farther now than in regular brawl?

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I'm not sure about that, but I do love when I shellshift into a pivot-grab and it drags them half the distance of FD Squirtle is so sexy.

JCaesar007 said:

I'm not sure about that, but I do love when I shellshift into a pivot-grab and it drags them half the distance of FD Squirtle is so sexy.

Click to expand...

Oh HELL yeah... that **** worked in brawl too. People would go "wtf?" in tournaments whenever I did that.

Ninja Squirtle is too good.

Another note; Dair is also even more friggin' awesome at intercepting many recoveries, the lack of auto-sweetspotting makes this high-priority move even more awesome (as long as you hit with the bottom half of Squirtle's body, around and a bit below his legs).

I'm really liking whats been done to Ivysaur, and so far shes the character I have most fun with. I believe theres a lot of potential going on with mindgames and things. Low lag and good range make a good combination. Doesn't take too much experimenting to see the versatility going on.

Nair leading into Utilts and into Uair is a great setup, along with a lot of moves that lead into a grab. Dthrow is good but Uthrow may be better when you really want that Uair kill. I've found Dthrow can be DI'ed a little too well for certain things to connect besides a Fair or Bair.

With lagless ledges I've been able to land Nair spikes a lot more often too. Ivy can be so flashy off the ledge. Lots of fake outs and instant recoveries/edgeguards. <3

I am loving what im doing with ivy in brawl+ He's my 4thdary(lol)

Ivy already had a good ground game invbrawl and now he's that much better. Dthrow to uair 3 times is ****. His faster side b now gives you a little more option of getting back on the ledge but don't get it confused. It's still very VERY easy to gimp ivy. But also with his fast side b It's a great spacing tool now. Dthrow can be di'ed but it should still lead to about 1-2 bairs.

If you know what you doing ivy's off the ledgegame is too good thanks to the no auto sweetspot. Ivy still retain his instant recovery when running off the side.Also with no autosweetspot his nair spike is alot more useful now.

im starting to think though that ivy's up b is OP though. he can dthrow to upb sweetspot at any killing % he wants, and if spaced correctly i think will always hit. and kills at like 80%...yeah lol, ivy rocks

I main Ivy myself in B+

I can't believe you said razor leaf is just okay, it's an amazing projectile and with it's speed boost (it's at least twice as fast now) it's amazing.

The dair speed buff is pretty stupid if you ask me since now it's like lucario's in spammability (i'll edgegaurd with a wall of Dair)

Her mixup game is amazing too, you can dashgrab often till they learn to sidestep then you can punish those with Usmashes.

Dthrow to Uair ALWAYS works, I don't think that's right to have such an easy kill combo. But an amazing Uair, I won't argue.

I thought Razor leaf WAS amazing, but in the newest set that I got the speedup was halved. Hopefully it'll be back to its former glory in the next set.

I think a lot of characters have easy kill combos out of grabs, and with proper DI it doesn't always work with Dthrow. I've found Uthrow to Uair to be almost always guaranteed though as long as its at the proper percent.

Its true dairing to stall is kind of weird on-stage, I don't like it that much, but stalling off-stage can be pretty useful.

Edit: Just found out that razor leaf is still 1.5x on the 4.0 codeset. The unreleased 4.1 is the one I was talking about. 4.1 is also the one I believe that has the Charizard buffs. So if you guys are on the fence about him the newest set might make him more appealing.

GuruKid said:

Oh HELL yeah... that **** worked in brawl too. People would go "wtf?" in tournaments whenever I did that.

Ninja Squirtle is too good.

Click to expand...

Your vbrawl squirtle was pretty sick already, I can imagine how your squirtle+ would be... Imma rest yo' squirtle!

Gindler said:

I can't believe you said razor leaf is just okay, it's an amazing projectile and with it's speed boost (it's at least twice as fast now) it's amazing.

Click to expand...

my op is in regards to the newest codeset, 4.1. Razorleaf's speed has been considerably reduced in that version, and as such, its usefullness was lessened. it's still a decent projectile, but now not as spammable and reliable as before.

Dthrow to Uair ALWAYS works, I don't think that's right to have such an easy kill combo. But an amazing Uair, I won't argue.

Click to expand...

Dthrow to uair only works at very low percents (in my experience, 0 - 20/25), and when that 20, 25ish percent comes around, it's no longer that reliable, as the opponent can easily DI out of the combo.

Don't get me wrong though... Dthrow is still a GREAT move for creating setups, especially on stages with platforms (dthrow to nair, dthrow to Bullet Seed!)

Blank Mauser said:

Its true dairing to stall is kind of weird on-stage, I don't like it that much, but stalling off-stage can be pretty useful.

Click to expand...

Dair is very helpful for stalling off the ledge. With it, you can more easily stall so that you can snipe the edgehogging opponent with a razorleaf or aerial either before he latches on, or right after his invincibility frames finish.

On another note, what do you guys think regarding CP and overall good stages for the trainer?

We also need input on matchups.


More organized OP coming very soon, guys.

GuruKid said:

He's truly a ninja turtle now, but still very does badly against long-rangers, notably Marth.

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Ain't that the truth. My region (MD/VA) has been having small B+ tourneys for the last few weeks, and I've been consistently getting top 3, but yesterday my first two matches were against two of our best Marth players. I went all Squirtle and it ... didn't work out so well

Which of the other 2 pokemon would you recommend to use against Marth? Eh I might use ROB for that matchup.

GuruKid said:

Chary: I still have to experiment more with this dude; most of his forte in regular brawl seems to have weakened or just plain dulled in the transition to B+. His grab game isn't so stellar, rock smash still works well but isn't the monster it was in vbrawl. I do love his aerial game, though; u-air now has some good use.

Click to expand...

Let me comment on Zard atm.

Rock Smash - It's actually way better than you give it credit for. It totally owns on a large scale of win. First off, Zard has momentum now, so now he can dash, jump, and Rock Smash with momentum (AND you can DI it during the momentum s you even have GREATER control of it). I think that's pretty scary! The best part is, you can chase people offstage with Rock Smash to finish a combo and usually, it kills them, though DI'ing it is pretty easy so, you gotta rush back to the stage and Fair them. The move ALSO has a sweetspot I noticed. I was able to 38% with Rock Smash twice now and brought my opponents from like 30ish% to 60% with one move! It's pretty crazy.

Rock Smash is also a great edgeguard move now because all of the rock pieces that come from it manage to cover the edge when you're near it. It's great for knocking people off the edge unexpectedly and then preparing a Fair or Dair right after. Not only that, but, it DESTROYS both Fox's and Falco's illusions, it utterly ***** them if you time it right. Rock Smash > Usmash actually works near the ledge on both the spacies illusions so, it is a great edgeguarding move! (I have vids of this too I will be getting up this week if you don't believe me).

Jab - Zard's jab leads to Dtilt now due to the lower hitlag. You can also chain two Utilts and jab for a grab and Fthrow. His jab is a lot more useful now, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Flamethrower - As you all probably know, it's a great edgeguarding move on certain characters. AFAIK, there is no easy way to DI this to avoid the move at all. For future reference, I think it ought to be looked into to see on how to DI it and avoid the edgeguard completely. While yeah, I wouldn't want to lose this as an edgeguarding move, it really shouldn't be so brainless of an edgeguard.

Ftilt - Good GTFO move now, I don't use it as much as I should though. Does anyone else? If so, when do you use it and how? I've been trying to find a good application for it and nothing seems to work really except as a GTFO move and maybe some techchasing.

Uair - It's so good now. I love how I was right about it being a good juggle move if it had less wind-down. I was able to, get this, do this combo on CF on Friday: Utilt > Uair > Uair > Fsmash. Yeah, it was CF and yes, he DI'd the second Uair badly. Still, doesn't deter its great uses now! Use it when you're under platforms, that's how I got this combo off.

Fair - It's much better now. Is the sweetspot still there near his mouth? If it is, let me know, someone said he still has it even though the rest of the move flinches now and has good KB (which makes it MUCH better). You're able to do triple Fairs or double Fairs offstage now for gimping, it's so cool! It's a great move to combo from but, AFAIK, it's not a good combo starter except into itself. Maybe look into this some?

Dair - Not much to say, more useful as a meteor now and onstage due to the startup being sped up. It also now ACs so, he's a little like Ganon in that aspect. Let's try and develop this move some and try to come up with some NASTYYYY combos. (Dair > Uair like Ganon maybe? ).

Nair - Has anyone found any good uses for this move yet? It seems pretty lame now that Zard has Dair for techchasing and a better Fair and Uair. Nair WAS good until these moves became better. Is it good to try and hit with the flame part of it? Not much to say other than it pales in comparison to his other aerials.

Utilt - It's more useful now because of Uair having less wind-down. It was a move you didn't want to use before because of Zard's terrible Uair. Well, now it's worth it and you can at least chain 2-3 of them on one char. It is easily DI'able though of course (unlike Fox's).

Up B - Alright, WHY is this recovery so bad? I mean christ, it's worse than Link's now IMO. You can only go in ONE direction and it barely goes anywhere when it ends, your special fall animation is like Wolf's; hardly any movement at all. Is this momentum based like Bowser's is? If it is, that would explain its terribleness. Needs to be explained to me as I do not know how to recover with this well at all except for holding back a LITTLE bit to grab the ledge and not overshoot it. If his glide was better, this recovery wouldn't be as bad. But that's not the case yet.

Anyway, those are mostly my thoughts so far on most of his moves. Maybe you found this helpful.

Falco400 said:

Nair - Has anyone found any good uses for this move yet? It seems pretty lame now that Zard has Dair for techchasing and a better Fair and Uair. Nair WAS good until these moves became better. Is it good to try and hit with the flame part of it? Not much to say other than it pales in comparison to his other aerials.

Click to expand...

Imo, Nair's a more defensive aerial. I usually use it to cross up shields or DI away from the opponent after a dash while using it as a fakeout. I think that when an opponent tries to spotdodge it, if Char is a little bit behind them, the flame may catch them. Nair isnt as useful as Fair/Dair/Uair offense wise, but it's okay I think. Oh, and of course, it can auto cancel, so going behind shields with it can lead to a jab combo/Jab Cancel or something I guess.

Also, if Char's Dair counts as a meteor, how is it that a grounded opponent seems to enter tumble sooner after being hit by it in comparison to that of Ike/Falco (I think?)/Ganon's dair? Is it a difference in KB or something, or am I just seeing things...?

Rudra said:

Imo, Nair's a more defensive aerial. I usually use it to cross up shields or DI away from the opponent after a dash while using it as a fakeout. I think that when an opponent tries to spotdodge it, if Char is a little bit behind them, the flame may catch them. Nair isnt as useful as Fair/Dair/Uair offense wise, but it's okay I think. Oh, and of course, it can auto cancel, so going behind shields with it can lead to a jab combo/Jab Cancel or something I guess.

Also, if Char's Dair counts as a meteor, how is it that a grounded opponent seems to enter tumble sooner after being hit by it in comparison to that of Ike/Falco (I think?)Ganon's dair? Is it a difference in KB or something, or am I just seeing things...?

Click to expand...

Hmm... alright, well, I'll just stick with what I do for now until I can actually use Nair like that lawl.

As for your last statement, it doesn't start sending into the tumble until after 30-40% much like CF's and DK's Dairs (both of which are meteors).

Hate to sound dumb, but I gotta ask... What's B+?

^http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213744

I'm really liking Squirtle in brawl+. I'll probably start maining/ seconding him, lol.

Charizard is AAAAAAWESOME. I'm in love with him now, so so much.

Nair actually IS good as a defensive move, and it's very similar to Ike's IMO. You can just SHFF it as you approach and not worry too much about getting punished. Can also start a few combos, and can also tech chase. It IS indeed less useful with the upgrades of his other aerials, but far far from useless.

His dair is odd to me, sometimes I love it and sometimes I hate it. I need to use it more though to form a full opinion. It can DEFINITELY combo into and out of lots of things, we just need to find out what. At low % dair to utilt and dair to uair works pretty much every time. Dair to grab also works (8 seconds in): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLqGc7IMfuw&feature=channel_page

I use Rock Smash to help myself recover, lol. But seriously, Zards UpB is trash, after playing against a Mario main for a while yesterday, I have to say Zards recovery is way worse. Hell, even Link has better recovery options.

Um, no, Zard has 3 jumps. That already makes his recovery better than Link's. While his upB itself sucks for recovering, it also has super armor, and thus once you start it you're safe until it's done.

You guys are making something out of nothing IMO, his recovery is totally fine, just make sure you're facing the way you want to go when using it.

2 when recovering. '-' His recovery is predictable and I get terribly punished for using UpB if my opponent predicts well. How long does the UpB hitbox last?

iSpiN said:

2 when recovering. '-' His recovery is predictable and I get terribly punished for using UpB if my opponent predicts well. How long does the UpB hitbox last?

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How do you get punished for upB? Do you not sweetspot the ledge or something? I mean there's ways around having yourself punished, in my opinion Charizard is less punishable than most, as you can Rock Smash on your way back to cover your face, or fair, you can glide (though it kind of sucks), and the upB has armor frames.

You don't sweetspot the edge, thats the point >_<

iSpiN said:

You don't sweetspot the edge, thats the point >_<

Click to expand...

There's your problem.

Start sweetspotting the ledge.

-_-

Clever_Sleazoid said:

There's your problem.

Start sweetspotting the ledge.

-_-

Click to expand...

Don't get an attitude with me.

We obviously have a different perception of what sweet spotting the edge means.

I'm saying Zard doesn't have a sweet spot since he doesn't auto snap with his UpB right after like he did in Brawl. But either way, his UpB has SA frames, so I guess it makes up for it.

Nobody auto-snaps outside of Luc, Ness, and Lucas, unless I'm missing someone else.

So I have to question... you ARE playing Brawl+ right?

Clever_Sleazoid said:

Nobody auto-snaps outside of Luc, Ness, and Lucas, unless I'm missing someone else.

So I have to question... you ARE playing Brawl+ right?

Click to expand...

You are correct, you didn't miss anyone.

And no, I'm playing 64, Zard is broken in that game @.@

Also, Grab release is a good set up on some characters for a SS dtilt.

His UpB is alright imo. One just needs to understand how to space it to sweetspot (and, maybe control it to go straight up if you're in ledgegrab range. At least the Cape won't **** it as badly then.)

EDIT: Does anyone know any good CP stages for PT's individual Pokemon?

Updated the OP and reserved a second post (which will be used for matchup analysis when the guide becomes bigger). Will provide good info on the individual moves very soon.

As far as Charizard's Up-B goes, I find it puts Charizard in just as vulnerable position as any other non-sweetspotted recovery (which goes for most of the cast now). Thing is... his big size and the afterlag of Fly makes him extra susceptible though, as he has a short but nonetheless vulnerable animation between the end of the attack itself and when he enters free fall animation.

Distant Planet and Wario Ware seem like really good CP stages for PT.

iSpiN said:

Distant Planet and Wario Ware seem like really good CP stages for PT.

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Distant Planet? Out of curiosity, what makes that stage good for PT?

I can agree with Wario Ware though. Ivy completely devastates things thanks to those platforms and strong aerials, and FSmash/Bthrow is much more potent thanks to those close horizontal boundaries, and she can recover easily there too. I think Squirtle also does well there too, but while he can control platforms decently, the closer blast zones seem to be an issue for him thanks to his light weight. Zard can platform pressure and Dthrow for a kill at mid percents too.

Since Falco400 asked, charizards fair has 4 hitboxes which come out at the same time. To make the exterior tip cause flinching, I had to give it a low base knockback and a HUGE KBG as the interior hitbox would connect and hit the exterior hitbox and would actually make the move barely hit anywhere. So as % increases, his sweetspot on fair starts to switch from interior to exterior as percent gets higher. At like 130-140 you should always aim for the tip.

Warioware truly is a great ivysaur level. Maybe her best. Those platforms just make Uair combos so amazing.

Norfair and Halberd seem to be great cp's for Ivysaur. Ivy can abuse those ledges pretty well on Norfair, and also theres more room and platforms for her to poke and Uair through, with the top platform being a good place to setup for a kill. Halberd's platform helps for comboing and has a low ceiling for killing as well.

Another place to keep in mind is Corneria. The ledge by the fin is very useful for Ivy. Find applications for it on your own, it isn't hard.

shanus said:

Since Falco400 asked, charizards fair has 4 hitboxes which come out at the same time. To make the exterior tip cause flinching, I had to give it a low base knockback and a HUGE KBG as the interior hitbox would connect and hit the exterior hitbox and would actually make the move barely hit anywhere. So as % increases, his sweetspot on fair starts to switch from interior to exterior as percent gets higher. At like 130-140 you should always aim for the tip.

Click to expand...

Yeah, whenever I used Chary's fair, I noticed that at high percents, hitting at the sweetspot (where all hits would connect) wasn't as powerful knockback-wise as when "sourspotting" with the tip.

Kinda screwy logic there. but it's still really beast. Thanks for clarifying.

I definitely agree with WarioWare being a great CP for PT, as all three characters can use the stage's setup amazingly well. Squirtle is more than able to kill off the side at early percents just by linking fairs and bairs; the same strategy works well for Chary (with fair and bair as well). Here, Ivy's definitely more vertically inclined to KO because... well... U-air.

Still, it is a risky CP, as the small boundaries make you also prone to early KO. This applies twice as much to Squirtle, who's near light as a feather. And uh... never CP this against a Fox or Jiggs... personal experience .

I've never played a match on Distant Planet before... never knew peeps still play on that stage. (unless it was changed... not sure on that).

I always hated Halberd as a CP in regular brawl, and I can imagine it'd be even worse for Squirtle and Charizard now, as without auto-sweetspot and that pass-through floor, they become even more susceptible to attacks while recovering. And many other stages have platforms similar to Halberd's, so...

Rudra said:

Distant Planet? Out of curiosity, what makes that stage good for PT?

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Honestly, I wish I knew myself, I randomly cp'd it during a tourney for Brawl last year and I did well on it. Its always been my PT cp since.

I think its cause my Ivy recovers well on the stage. The middle of the stage is perfect for switching. And the Platforms really help PT do his Utilt/Uair combos.

You guys now stuff, will Retro Gamings idea on the forced switch for PT be in or is it already in the plussery set? The one where you have to swtich, but can switch either way is the one I'm talking about.